Yes, Rabbi, Mormons are not only weird but in some cases weirder than other people . . .
steve benson
In an article in the Huffington Post, entitled, "Are Mormons Any Weirder Than the Rest of Us?," Rabbi Shmuley Boteach makes his case against that proposition with this opening statement:
"I have been close to Mormons ever since my days at Oxford when Michael Taft Benson, whose grandfather, Ezra Taft Benson, was the prophet of the Mormon Church at the time, became a member and then an elected officer of our L'Chaim Society at the University. Thus began a lifelong friendship that continues today, with many visits to lecture for Mike at Southern Utah University and other mostly Mormon academies of higher learning in the majority Mormon state.
"I have thus watched with mild amusement as the debate surrounding the beliefs of Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman have gained steam. Aren't the Mormons weird fanatics? Should we treat people with such strange beliefs with high office?"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-shmuley-boteach/are-mormons-any-weir...
____
Hello, Rabbi--
My name is Steve Benson. I am the older brother of Mike Benson, president of Southern Utah University, and the oldest grandchild of Ezra Taft Benson, former president of the Mormon Church.
Yes, not only are Mormons weird, they are weirder than a lot of other people in their strange beliefs.
Perhaps you, me and Mike can get together sometime and I can tell you why Romney's weirdness (not necessarily Huntsman's) is grounds enough in my mind to not elect him president of the United States. We can go into that weirdness in more detail at that time, not here in the open where it could prove embarrassing to those within reading distance who might report it through the Mormon grapevine back to my family. (Perhaps we could meet at some nice little restaurant of your or Mike's choosing in Cedar City. I've been there several times and like the town, although I can't say whether it's up to Oxford's standards since I have never been to Oxford).
If you would like, maybe I can draw your caricature over lunch. I used to do that sort of thing at an amusement park in Texas, Six Flags, and with that penchant for doodling eventually was able to pull down the Pultizer prize.
Now, THAT'S weird.
Take care.
Ex-Mormon Steve Benson
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 09:39PM by steve benson.
OnceMore
Re: Yes, Rabbi, Mormons are not only weird but in some cases weirder than other people . . .
Discussion of a debate in which Rabbi Boteach, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, and Dan Dennett participated:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/11/dennett_harris_hitchens_vs_bo...
Comments about Boteach are revealing.
thingsithink
Re: Yes, Rabbi, Mormons are not only weird but in some cases weirder than other people . . .
Okay. That one (your letter) left me in tears. I needed that. Made me reflect on Cludgie talking about Ezra doodling on napkins . . . .
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 01:16AM by thingsithink.
thingsithink
Re: Yes, Rabbi, Mormons are not only weird but in some cases weirder than other people . . .
He might show up for lunch just to get the free caricature from a Pulitzer prize winner. I would. :)
steve benson
Maybe I could trace for him something my granddad doodled on a napkin.
thingsithink
Re: Maybe I could trace for him something my granddad doodled on a napkin.
I'm not sure why this is so funny to me . . . maybe its the idea of this guy engaging in a serious conversation about religion while you (respectfully) doodle his caricature . . . .
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 02:42AM by thingsithink.
steve benson
I've found that doodling caricatures breaks down walls and puts people at ease, not to mention enthralls them because I'm drawing their very own face . . .
I could tell some pretty funny stories about that; suffice to say that I've had the chance over the years to do it for some pretty prominent folks, including national leaders.
They're only human and whey you draw them, they tend to let down their guard and act human. :)
On the other hand, when I've cartooned Mormonism, I got grumpy complaints from my grandfather.
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 02:51AM by steve benson.
thingsithink
Re: I've found that doodling caricatures breaks down walls and puts people at ease, not to mention enthralls them because I'm drawing their very own face . . .
That's interesting. It seems like the person is in a bit of a vulnerable position during the process.
steve benson
Yeah, they often try not to show it but when I'm nonchalant about it, they tend to loosen up a bit and go with the flow . . ,
Then when they see that it wasn't as bad as they may have expected, they look relieved, smile and crack some jokes.
It's actually kinda cool to see their inner child come out. :)
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 02:59AM by steve benson.
thingsithink
Re: Yeah, they often try not to show it but when I'm non-chalant about it, they tend to loosen up a bit and go with the flow . . . ,
I would think it would be a little hairy for you sometimes . . . you do have to show them when you're done. You could scar someone for life if you were feeling a bit mean-spirited. :)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 03:03AM by thingsithink.
steve benson
It's actually no big deal. I normally don't dress up to meet them
. . . and being that they're invited guests, I tend to go easy on them.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 03:07AM by steve benson.
thingsithink
Re: It's actually no big deal. I normally don't dress up to meet them
I can imagine it must be fun. No matter who they are, they're in your element, so I can see how they might drop any facades and be more themselves. But for those who aren't invited guests . . . those are the ones I worry about (poor Rick Perry, for example). I've looked at some of your work on your paper's site. If people think you're rough on the boards here, they should try running for public office. I'd prefer to be an invitee.
I don't know if you can or want to, but it would fun if you shared some of your relevant works here (someone asking for another free gig). At least a teaser or two.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 03:23AM by thingsithink.
steve benson
can't. too political.
Fetal Deity
Steve, I hope you are, indeed, able to meet with the rabbi to discuss Mormonism.
Besides addressing its "weirdness," please also educate him on its inherent antisemitism, as well. You could start off with an unfortunate quote from Bruce R. McConkie, implying that the Jews have brought their misfortunes upon themselves:
“'Let the spiritually illiterate suppose what they may, it was the Jewish denial and rejection of the Holy One of Israel, whom their fathers worshiped in the beauty and holiness, that has made them a hiss and byword in all nations and that has taken millions of their fair sons and daughters to untimely graves.'”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Judaism#Other_Mormon_literature
Of course, McConkie was only echoing the Book of Mormon--the "KEYSTONE" of Mormonism:
"Wherefore ... it must needs be expedient that Christ ... should come among the Jews, among those who are the more wicked part of the world; and they shall crucify him ... and there is none other nation on earth that would crucify their God.
"For should the mighty miracles be wrought among other nations they would repent, and know that he be their God.
"But because of priestcrafts and iniquities, they at Jerusalem will stiffen their necks against him, that he be crucified.
"Wherefore, because of their iniquities, destructions, famines, pestilences, and bloodshed shall come upon them; and they who shall not be destroyed shall be scattered among all nations." (Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 10:3 - 6)
Thanks for doing your part to rid the world of Mormonism, Steve! : )
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 07:14PM by Fetal Deity.
steve benson
gag.
thingsithink
Re: can't. too political.
This is way off topic (and I'm still laughing about the letter - off and on tonight), but I'm wondering if you had to grow a thick skin or did it just come naturally. I've hadn't thought about just how much serious heat you must get in your line of work until tonight. I'm guessing that to be good, you have to be impervious to opinion or somehow block it out. How do you do it? I want me some of that . . .
steve benson
Sometimes it's a challenge. I get it there--and here--but, hey, it goes with the territory in the Land of Opinion . . .
Now back to rabbis, reason and religion. :)
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 03:54AM by steve benson.
Nightingale
Yes, back. But first...
When I was in Paris one weekend I paid a street artist for a caricature, just one of those touristy things you do. Some French people don't like "l'anglaise" (go figure), this guy among them as the drawing he did was most unflattering. It was quite unpleasant for me to feel that level of spite, or whatever, from a stranger. He looked at me with a grin as I reacted with dismay. "And I'm paying you for making me feel bad" I thought but was too chicken to say anything to him.
I sought out a "second opinion" from another artist who rendered a sketch at the other end of the scale, so flattering that it doesn't resemble me at all, lol!
It feels good for a second to be flattered but too, I value reality.
I've seen some of Steve's editorial cartoons. The subjects in some of his artwork would surely feel good about how they come out of it while others may feel less positive about the "honour" when he highlights a moment in their lives they may wish to forget (or may hope the electorate would!).
For them it comes with the territory. For me I was paying the guy. That should get you some good will, no?
I only kept one of the drawings. :)
Shummie
Re: I've found that doodling caricatures breaks down walls and puts people at ease, not to mention enthralls them because I'm drawing their very own face . . .
steve benson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I could tell some pretty funny stories about that;
> suffice to say that I've had the chance over the
> years to do it for some pretty prominent folks,
> including national leaders.
>
> They're only human and whey you draw them, they
> tend to let down their guard and act human. :)
>
> On the other hand, when I've cartooned Mormonism,
> I got grumpy complaints from my grandfather.
Did you say grumpy?
Folks, Steve has drawn plenty of nearly-famous sorts such as myself who are left smarting from his razor-sharp pen. Some of us fare better than others when Steve dishes out the just desserts.
In my case it was a mason's compass stuck in the side on my head in his doodle of me as a masonic bricklayer which he titled "Sure Sign of The Nailed".
Just be careful what you ask for from Steve. You always get more than you expect, believe me.
steve benson
Hey, if the Mason compass sticks, wear it. :)
Shummie
Re: Hey, if the Mason compass sticks, wear it. :)
steve benson Wrote:
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> n/t
And if the foo $hits, bare it.
;)
BTW, what is that cutsey little device called that you scribblers often use featuring miniature characters lurking at the bottom of the doodle while ad-libbing their two cents worth?
Ifyanowhatimean.
michael
It's a good letter you prepared, Steve, but
there's one "small" correction. His name is Schmuley, not Schumley. It's a derivative of the name "Shmuel," which is Samuel in Hebrew.
The only reason I point it out to you is to give you a bit more credence when (not if, when) you send it to Rabbi Boteach.
acerbictoo
Rabbi Schmuley is a gentile . . .
but I am not sure he knows that. :-o
Its not surprising that he does not find the LDS that weird. His brand of Orthodox Judaism is one of those where the girls and women are required to dress 'modestly.' He likely won't notice that the burden of modesty always falls on the women.
Why can't these religious men get some self-control, rather than blaming immodest women for their lack of it?
Also, his daughters are taught that the highest aspiration for women is to be a mother. Again, mormonism won't seem strange in that respect.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 02:13PM by acerbictoo.
steve benson
Most savvy readers and seasoned public figures know that I am not paid to make my targets look good. :)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 02:59PM by steve benson.
steve benson
It's called a crutch. :)
Shummie
Re: It's called a crutch. :)
steve benson Wrote:
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> It's called a crutch. :)
Ah so, I never would have guessed.
Anyway, the crutch you put in mine was waving her arms in the air and exclaiming "pay le bill", whatever that means.
Must be some Franglaise or something meaning god knows what.
One of my favorite art treasures in any event, that one.
Thanks again.
steve benson
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-shmuley-boteach/are-mormons-any-weir...
And why, then, is this note at the bottom of his article, which gives his website and twitter addys with the same spelling?:
"Rabbi Shmuley Boteach has just published of "Ten Conversations You Need to Have with Yourself" (Wiley) and will shortly publish "Kosher Jesus." Follow him on his website www.shmuley.com and on Twitter @RabbiShmuley."
_____
Here's what I think happened:
I originally misspelled his name as "Shumley." You then misspelled my misspell as "Schmuley," and from there went on to misspell what you thought was the correct spelling, by claiming that his name is spelled "Schmuley."
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,354154,354484#msg-354484
His name appears, in reality, to be spelled "Shmuley" (not to be confused with the spelling of the name of another poster in this thread, "Shummie").
We all clear on this, now?
Geezus, er, Jeesuz, er, Cheesecrisp, er, Jesus.
Whatever. :)
Edited 17 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 10:08PM by steve benson.
michael
Re: Good catch. Thanks.
You're welcome. Please let us know what happens.
steve benson
Actually, I spoke too soon. It looks like we both are guilty of misspelling the rabbi's name
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2011 01:17AM by steve benson.
steve benson
It's a derivative of "pay lay ale"--perhaps a call for you to pay the bill for the ale. Hell if I remember. :)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 09:56PM by steve benson.
Shummie
Re: It's a derivative of "pay lay ale"--perhaps a call for you to pay the bill for the ale. Hell if I remember. :)
steve benson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n/t
My lips are sealed under penalty of extreme self loathing.
cough
steve benson
Um, it's spelled "Shmuley." :)
WiserWomanNow
Watching you draw a caricature
Back when, I watched one of your videos on the Arizona Republic site. You drew a caricature of Obama. ALL I remember is my drop-jawed astonishment at how effortlessly you did it! In probably a half minute or less, a few curved lines created a clearly recognizable political figure.
We see caricatures in political cartoons all the time. But seeing the finished product is very different watching the process! I had never imagined how easily and quickly those caricatures could be drawn, by those with the artistic talent to do so!
thingsithink
Re: Watching you draw a caricature
I've looked at some of his work on Arizona Republic website too. To state the obvious, its pretty amazing, not only the noodling and the humor . . . but its often very thought provoking. There's more information packed in some of his cartoons than his lengthy, well-researched posts here. :)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 11:46PM by thingsithink.
steve benson
It's much easier drawing them with a Sharpie then rendering them in brush and ink . . .
I do both, depending on the situation.
My regular cartoons are largely created using a sable-hair brush and waterproof India ink on special illustration board, which takes much more time and control (laying down a pencil sketch first, then doing the ink overlay, while repeatedly dipping the brush into the inkwell and bringing the brush tip to a fine point by swirling it on paper to remove the excess ink load). There's also more deliberative drawing of the ink line in varying widths (depending on the pressure applied on the brush tip as it meets paper). Ink-and-brush is much more detailed, time-consuming and painstaking. I tend to make more mistakes in that kind of intricate work which needs ongoing correction--thereby keeping the white-out industry in business.
What you saw me do on the video was a quick-draw approach where, just using a magic marker, you can whip out a drawing pretty fast. I use that technique for short on-camera spots or for live-audience demonstrations, as well as for caricatures. If I employed this approach for creating my regular daily cartoon, I'd be out of the office a lot earlier but the cartoons wouldn't look as finished.
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2011 12:12AM by steve benson.
WiserWomanNow
“using a magic marker, you can whip out a drawing pretty fast.”
Uh--YOU can. Those of us lacking artistic talents could not make a drawing look like a particular person, no matter what drawing implements we used or how long we worked at it!
I follow what you are saying about the greater effort required for your daily cartoons. And yet, to think of how to express one’s idea in cartoon form, much less to actually be able to draw the cartoon as one pictures it in one’s mind, is another talent baffling to the non-artist.
Nevertheless, we're happy to give you the credit for your creativity and skills, while we have the pleasure of enjoying the cartoons you come up with!
steve benson
I wish I could play the drums, the saxaphone and the banjo. I, too, am amazed and baffled by the people who can do what I can't.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2011 01:06AM by steve benson.
steve benson
Back to the rabbi . . .
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2011 01:06AM by steve benson.
thingsithink
Re: Yes, Rabbi, Mormons are not only weird but in some cases weirder than other people . . .
At this point, I just want to see the doodle of the Rabbi - the look on his face - as you tell him how weird mormons are . . . .
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2011 02:31AM by thingsithink.
steve benson
First, I've got to get him the letter. Maybe my brother can deliver it. :)
steve benson
***TALK ABOUT WEIRD: Immediately after posting about possibly getting the message to the Rabbi via delivery by my brother, I discover that the Rabbi has already contacted me . . .
I found the following email in my personal inbox from "Shmuley Boteach," dated Thursday, 1 December 2011, 1:05 a.m.:
"got your message, steve, via mike. did not see it on the website where you posted. i have heard a great deal about you from mike. would welcome speaking and getting to know each other G-d willing. have also seen many of your cartoons over the years and they're amazing.
"thank you
"shmuley"
_____
I like Mike. He's a good bro. Glad to see he's reading RfM.
I hope "shmuley" likes what I'd like to share with him.
I think I'll pursue the proposal for a meet-up between the three of us.
A Jewish rabbi, a LDS university president and an ex-Mormon cartoonist: Could be a trinity of trouble. Either that, or a tri-headed teach-in.
Stay tuned. :)
Edited 11 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2011 04:08AM by steve benson.
"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"