What has stopped you from telling a TBM [Mormon] friend/relative to their face
By freshperspective Dec. 2011
how [messed] up their religion is? Or have you told them already over the phone, in person or internet email? because you could no longer hold those thoughts and feelings back of how you felt mistreated and manipulated by so many people within the Mormon religion? I already have expressed my feelings and thoughts on the matter to many members, leaders including family members. I'm not afraid to express how I feel about something or someone when it is something that bothers me. How about you and how do you go about putting it all out on the table or have you, or still contemplating?
Raptor Jesus
I put a lot of it out on the table when I came out of the exmo closet to my parents.
They pushed, I pushed back.
I put some of it out to my brother-in-law after he got all whiney about my facebook posts.
He pushed, I pushed back.
I put some more of it out to a coworker to tried to reconvert me.
He pushed, I pushed back.
I believe in proportional force - and I only believe in being the instigator on various forms on the internet where it's anonymous and no family members are involved.
wine country girl
My tbm sister lost two children in two separate car accidents.
She believes she will be with them in the after-life and it is this faith that keeps her from blowing her brains out. I wouldn't take that away from her.
MadameRadness
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
Honestly? I wish I had never learned some of the crap I did. I wish I could have stayed in my sweet little Mormon bubble and never dealt with the emotional trauma of realizing my religion was a lie. But once you know, you can't un-know.
So I won't do that to TBM friends and family unless they push me. Assuming they keep their mouths shut about my leaving the church I will certainly not bust their chops about remaining in the church. If you push the issue however, then your religion is fair game IMO.
Cheryl
DH used the f-word on my TBM mother when she was in her 80s.
We'd been telling her for years that we'd never be mormon and she needed to get used to it and stop pushing. A few years would go by and she'd launch a new afront.
We received a letter full of sriptual quotes and laced with her tearful testimony with a challenge that we read some junk in the BofW.
DH phoned her and let her have it! She yelled at him from her high horse and he used the f-word among other things. She's now 92, still devout, but hasn't breathed a word to us about her church since that colorful phone exchange.
freshperspective
sometimes that's what it takes.
I had an all out shouting match with my mother in-law last summer because she was stupid enough to think I was talking about her when we declined her invitation to go to their mormon family reunion. I gave her the flat out truthful reasons in e-mail why we couldn't and didn't want to go. I gave her about 6-7 honest reasons, none of which had anything to do with her as a person, but not feeling comfortable with the whole mormon culture and her scary overbearing bully cop of a son, we couldn't afford to go etc etc. The phone conversation started out ok when they called, but when she wouldn't allow us to get a word in when we tried clarifying to her what we meant, (nothing more than what we wrote), I had to start excalating my voice until it was shouting between us and couldn't hear a word each other was saying. Her personal delusions about what others think of her and what she assumed just made matters worse. We saw her true colors come out how she truly felt about me, which is as much as gutter water. She couldn't care less how I feel/felt how they and other in-laws have treated me in the past. She made our decline for the invitation all about her. Highly disappointing. My wife hasn't talked with her mom since. I will never receive an apology from her mom either, just more justification of her own poor choice of words, behavior and actions. So sad. sometimes you just need to lay it on the line and let things roll over and hopefully smooth out over time. But it's sometimes good to try to discuss things, otherwise nothing ever gets resolved.
kolobian
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
What stops me from telling my TBM family & friends the truth to their faces?
That's easy. Them walking away...
ginger
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
My TBM mom already got an earful from me so she won't talk about it at all with me anymore.
fetching49
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
They asked why we left and suddenly it became their problem to have. They push and push until you end up just having to limit contact for your own sanity. Of course we tried to calmly and respectfully explain our position and I'm sure everyone knows the response that comes out of it. Free agency is only yours to exercise so long as you choose the Morg.
suckafoo
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
I think any time is the right time to tell them. I lost a good friend telling her. She shut me down and ran away. But you know what? She knows where this apostate lives. And after her new marriage and baby, and she recalls the things I have said when the chips are down I would not be surprised if I hear a little knock on my door. It may not be for years to come but she won't forget the things I said.
I won't ever apologize for telling the truth whether they ask me to tell them or I'm intruding or however people see it is of no consequence to me.
kimball
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
After the first few months, they rarely initiated the discussion any more. Maybe they realized they had no answers to my questions, but more likely they think I'm too hard-hearted to listen to the "truth." One way or another, it's clear that no TBM relative or acquaintance of mine wants to talk about it any more, so I try not to push them. Whenever I drop a subtle hint, like shaking my head when they say something mormon, they seem to back off a little, like they don't want to go there.
I'm willing to talk about anything. They're not. It makes me sad, but I respect their wishes.
freshperspective
Good for you!
Being honest with yourself and others no matter if it hurts them or you or not, at least you know you're being true to yourself and choosing the path that's right for you! btw I never liked the expression Mormons make by calling other inactive or ex-mormons (apostates). I was called an apostate a couple times by devout members online and they hadn't even taken the time to really think about what they were saying and believing because they've been indoctrinated with one way thinking so hardcore.
Little do they know, accept or realize that They (Mormons) are the apostates by misguidance, ignorance or even by choice because their religion completely contradicts the traditional teachings of Christianity and what has been (originally) documented in the bible of what Jesus and God has supposedly spoken long before Mormonism was born. Lay that one on them next time a devout mormon calls you an apostate; have all the reasons why they are the apostates for ammo. I already can think of many reasons.
suckafoo
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
I agree with that too. There is a point where you said your piece and then let it go
munchybotaz
I once told my mom that I didn't believe it and it didn't make sense to me
and had that played back a couple years later, in the heat of an argument, as "you ran down my church." Hate to think if I ever said what I really think of her church.
It's just not worth it.
Additional background and context: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,369643,370107#msg-370107
I don't like that my mom somehow became the biggest Mormon my mostly inactive/Jack Mormon extended family has ever seen, but going back to church seems to have given her a reason to live after my dad died. It's her social life, and her particular ward takes really good care of her--probably mostly because she's pretty and nice, but she's gotten thousands of dollars in supplies and services from the members. And I mean many thousands of dollars. Whenever something breaks or she needs something, a crew from the ward shows up. They've practically remodeled her whole house--which my dad, despite his belief in his own abilities, did a lousy job of building. Any home, vehicle, or property need she has, the Oakley or Peoa Can't Remember Which Ward is on the job--most recently, with an entire winter's worth of wood for her stove while she was waiting to get her furnace fixed.
Call me a hypocrite, but I'm OK with that. I despise the larger organization, but the people in my mom's ward have been excellent. I've decided that when she dies, I'm just gonna bite the bullet and let them do their thing, within reason. And I don't mean by helping me or paying for anything, but just participating. If they want to have a prayer at her graveside, fine. She would want that.
I'd rather just throw her in the purple pansy casket she picked out when my dad died and not even have a thing. I'm sure the local Mos will drive me crazy and I may burst into flames, but they've really been there for Munchymomom and I'm glad for that.
derrida
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
They shut down. They are emotionally unable to cope with any information that directly and incontrovertibly contradicts the church. Such is the effectiveness of the church's...mmmm...education program.
blueorchid
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
The only mormons I know now are family and they wouldn't let me get on the subject for all the rice in china.
We all ride the fine line that is our differences, and as long as they leave it alone, I will too.
I would have preferred to have one big knock down drag-out fight about it and then agree to disagree after that. I like the air cleared and the eggshells crushed into little pieces. However, mormons don't really like confrontation--when you live in a house of glass, you know....
Cheryl
You're so right about the tendency to make it personally about **them**.
They start with that assumption and twist whatever is said to lead to their preformed conclusion.
SusieQ#1
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
It's not my place to give other people my opinion of their religion. That's their personal business and none of my business.
We don't like someone doing that to us, why do it to someone else? It's rude, and uncalled for generally.
I think we need to respect their rights to their beliefs by faith. After all, it's ancient and bad mouthing someone's religion is not a relationship builder.
So, what's the point?
tori
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
From experience, people can change their minds far easier when they don't feel that they have to do a massive climb down in front of me. To confront my family members would lead to a large defence on their part, and nothing hardens you in a position like having to defend it. I'm a never-mo and started lurking on this site trying to find some sort of glimmer of hope from you all that my family members might leave. Sometimes my (convert) cousin gives a hint that she is slightly less than TBM (sneaky decaff coffee with me, complains about church members etc) othertimes as T, B, M as possible (don't ask me about the invitation to watch the conference, enthusiasm about callings...) I have had to come to the place where if she wants to be mormon, I have to let her do that, however much I might want to run screaming at her, waving the evidence in front of her and plead her to snap out of it.
Tori
x
jazzskeeter
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
My TBM family (kids), mom, brother, & sister accept me leaving the church, and accept my partner. They are gracious, and I owe them the same. So I refrain from making snarky comments. ( so hard!)
elcid
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
Generally we should avoid telling a TBM about the "stuff". They won't listen, they'll shun us, and we'll get into an arguement. Are any of these things good? No.
If they ask, if THEY push, we can politely push back, but at some point we should say we really don't want to go further because we would damage our relationship.
It's called getting along. Speaking carefully. Granted they often don't do this, but it is no excuse for us to not be circumspect.
onlyme
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
I haven't talked with my TBM in-laws much since I quit going to church almost a year ago. They leave me alone so I leave them alone. If they try to re-convert me, then i'll be more vocal.
I was a terrible member missionary and i'm no better in my anti-church missionary efforts. My beliefs are mine, yours are yours. I'm just not comfortable trying to convince you that you are wrong and i'm right.
freshperspective
It is my business...
when I've been through the Mormon ringer for 20 years and they have pulled the wool over my eyes, manipulated and cheated their way to my pocket book as they pulled on my heart strings. It is my business when I see them hurting unaware family members and taking advantage of them the same way they did to me and my wife! It is MY business to Let the Truth be known in a non-attacking manner, but diplomatic and civil form so they can either choose to listen or ignore. It's one thing to cram helpful information down ones throat in an aggressive tone without their consent, and it's another to want to share the truth because you genuinely care. It is my business to care about family and friend's welfare.
LochNessie
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
It truly depends on the tbm. Most of the time it's not going to make a difference so why bother? I refuse to let myself get picked on though. If they confront me I will try to set their beliefs straight, but this really hasn't happened on my side of the family. It has happened a few times with mormon aquaintances/friends who think if they give me a coming to Jesus I will return to the fold. Well, they have gotten their own right back at them.
My father is very aware of my feelings and agrees with them to an extent. His view is, even if it's not true it's made him happy and it's a good way for him to live. He did ask me not to talk negative about the church to my mom, I can talk to him about it, but not to her because it upsets her so much that she gets physically sick. Yep, that's my mom. I have no problem with that. We don't speak about religion, but we don't speak much anyway so it is not a big deal. She thinks I'm going to hell and she is a failure as a mother. Nothing much I can do about that. She needs the church in her life.
With some tbm family members I just think, it makes them happy, they won't believe me anyway so what's the point?
Now dh's side, is an entirely different story. They are hypocritical, mean, nasty, confrontational, jackasses. I would like nothing better than to knock the smug self righteousness about the "true religion" off their face, but not really my place. DH will defend himself and me. There are family members he no longer talks to because of their nastiness over the church, so we just stay away. It is what it is. Dh's view is he'll defend us, but why sink to their level and go after their religion if they're leaving us alone.
ginger
In my case
it was my TBM mom that brought it up. She has brought it up on a couple of occasions but knows now not to do so. She wants me to respect her but when she starts talking about how "true" TSCC is and how we will all find out in the end that the LDS church was right all along, well she doesn't want to hear what I have to say to that. I have told her before how arrogant and self-righteous she sounds. I don't want to be a part of that. She doesn't believe when I tell her that JS was marrying women who had husbands that were alive and well. She just responds with "You have been reading anti-LDS literature."
Timothy
Mormonism is a one-way street ...
... as SQ#1 above clearly demonstrates in her semi-annual "I Love Mormons And So Can You!" campaign.
She writes:
"It's not my place to give other people my opinion of their religion."
Of course its not, particularly when you're a woman and the head of your household is a priesthood-holding TBM. Under such circumstances, your "place" is to keep your mouth shut and tend to his wants and needs. Understanding your "place" as a woman is most decidedly a "relationship builder" in the patriarchal mormon system and must be respected!
"I think we need to respect their rights to their beliefs by faith."
Absolutely. After all, mormons are well known and widely regarded for "respecting" the beliefs of others. That's why their most fundamental belief -- all other religions are abominations in the sight of the lord -- is so joyfully received. And because mormons align themselves with a racist, sexist and homophobic institution, we should "respect" their opposition to, say, same-sex marriage and aid them in their on-going quest to repress anyone who is not white, male, heterosexual and submissive to their way of thinking.
I don't "live with and love mormons" nor do I depend on them for my livelihood, so I don't have to "respect their beliefs" or ignore the fact that they belong to a cult or "make peace with it" by cowering to their demands and allowing them to walk all over me under the guise of "taking back my power."
In the end, mormons show no respect and are therefore entitled to no respect. Those who think they deserve respect have a long way to go toward recovery.
Timothy
forbiddencokedrinker
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
The fact that I need my sister for a babysitter.
andyb
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
I hardly ever talk to the Mormon side of my family and those that I do have a relationship with live far away....and as for TBM friends, I have zero close TBM pals and my doctor and dentist are the only TBM's I ever see on a any kind of a regular basis. I've always wondered if they would be pressured to drop me as a patient should they know of my beliefs. And then again, my Catholic wife is also a patient of both Doc's so it's complicated....
saviorself
My three TBM sisters have their whole lives invested in Mormonism
They are now in their early sixties. At this point it makes no sense for me to attempt to show them that their church is a hoax. That would bring them a lot of sadness with very little chance of improving their lives. So I let well enough alone. And they never bother me about my non-believing status. The net result is we have very little to say to each other.
blueorchid
Re: what has stopped you from telling a TBM friend/relative to their face
The mormons have no right to respect from anyone after the disgusting devastation they have caused to families, women, men, husbands , fathers, gays , blacks et al.
The ugly things they have done make their beliefs everyone's business.
another guy
Re: My tbm sister lost two children in two separate car accidents.
She will be, but 'mormonism' has nothing to do with it. I hate the way the Corp pretends that they have a lock on who will or will not be together in the afterlife. It's not their call.
SoLiberated
Re: It is my business...
I second that!
freshperspective
Re: It is my business...
I third that! I now know why she defends and supports Mormon thinking and behavior, while posing her opinion and attacking others who don't defend or agree with how the church treats others. She can't escape her own surroundings while she's encompassed with it around active believing family members still. What ever SuzieQ's decision may be down the road, I hope it'll be healthy for her first and foremost and second, good for her family.
I know from experience, how it feels to battle constantly with a spouse and self what's right and wrong while trying to support another person's decisions while maintaining my composure and believing something totally opposite of what the significant other believes.
I'm not trying to tell Suzie what to do or how to handle things in her own life with her family, but I do want to share how good it felt once I finally decided to have a full out hash out debate in the most honest possible way with my wife on how I truly felt and knew about the mormon church and how it affects peoples character.
That was the test of all tests to see if our relationship was built on love and trust or was it built on Mormon principles and guidelines? Something to think about Suzie. I wish you nothing but the best. Sincerely.
"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"