Visit from 1st counselor -Local Mormon Leader

sallycinnamon Dec. 2012

I've been inactive for the last 6 months. I'm in my early 20's, my immediate family has moved 3 hrs away for my dads new job. I stayed to continue school. Last night about 7 pm my doorbell rings at my apt. It's the bishops 1st counselor who I know from going to high school with his daughter. [RfM posters respond and Sally's reply are below]

I let him in and he sits next to me on sofa and proceeds to tell me how much i've been missed blah, blah, and then he puts his hand on my knee and asks if I need a ride to church, I have just returned from Pilates class and I'm not dressed revealing but form fitting, and the entire time he is talking he is looking at my chest, I'm feeling VERY uncomfortable at this point and ask him to kindly leave because I am not feeling well after my workout. Then he wants to hug me as he is leaving, so I slam the door and i'm kinda freaked. I' ve read on here about love bombing but this is just TOO creepy. What should I do, tell the Bishop, call my dad, buy a gun?


Devoted Exmo
Re: visit from 1st counselor
What do you think your dad would say?

This is definitely way, way, way over the line, in case you had any doubts.

Re: visit from 1st counselor
Tell his wife?

"Hi Sister So-and-So, I don't know if you remember me, but I went to school with your daughter So-and-So? Yes, great. I had a visit from your husband last night since he's 1st counsellor... anyway, I just wanted to let you know that he seemed to really like the such-and-such top I was wearing and that you might like to get one for yourself."

Re: visit from 1st counselor
That was inappropriate alright! Are you in a position to resign? That would (mostly) stop the contacts.

But yes, tell the bishop too, he shouldn't have come in alone. No opposite gender mormons are supposed to be alone together. He broke HIS rules. AND crossed the creepy line with the hand on knee and inappropriate eyeballs. AND just making you uncomfortable.
You can also request no contact from him in particular.

I apologize if I drew the wrong gender conclusion from your username and the chest staring.

Re: visit from 1st counselor
"What should I do, tell the Bishop, call my dad, buy a gun?"

Do all three. Throw in calls to his daughter (your friend) and his wife.

Re: visit from 1st counselor
Eeeeewwwwww! Ick ick ick! I think you should do all three. I know Mormons have very poor boundaries, but that is waaaayyy over the line. I would never answer the door to that man again. Part of the reason I got my out-out-out piece of paper is so that no one from that church could claim any right to visit or call--let alone touch me. He sounds scarier than hell. Don't blame you a bit for freaking out.

Re: visit from 1st counselor

"Hi, I'd like to report..."

Yes, I am that evil!

Re: visit from 1st counselor
WAY over the line. He's not supposed to be visiting a woman at all on church business without a "companion", or the woman's husband. Definitely a creeper. Please don't ever let him in again.

"What should I do, tell the Bishop, call my dad, buy a gun?"
I presume you are female? That is just FUCKING creepy.

ASAP: DEF take up option B (call my dad) and option C (buy a gun).

Also, talk to your landlord about the security of your apartment door and ask him to install things like peephole, security chain or bar, deadbolt lock, etc. The sooner the better.

Devoted Exmo
Re: visit from 1st counselor
You don't need a gun. You just need to out the guy.
Re: visit from 1st counselor
That's definitely some love bombing if I've ever heard it.

Creepy! Tell the bishop. Tell him you don't want any visitors ever again, especially the 1st counsellor.

citizen not logged in
Re: visit from 1st counselor
this makes me sick. i'm sorry for your negative experience.

this guy is more than bad news.

don't let him into your life again. you really have to be clear if you ever encounter him that you don't want anything to do with him. i now hindsight is 20/20, but learn from this, OK? (i.e., don't let people you feel comfortable with in, sit next you on the couch, or touch your knee or anything else). and you don't have to hug if you don't want to. OK?

i can't believe he would do that, but he learned from the best (Joseph Smith and the rest of the gang all the way down the line). some priesthood leaders are sincere, others are manipulators like this guy.

this really makes me so angry for you. tell your dad for sure. tell the bishop. i don't think i would recommend telling his daughter unless you know where she would stand on this and whether or not she would believe you. same for his wife.

you deserve better. better respect and better respect of your privacy.

you deserve better. better apartment security and better personal security (a gun! seriously... you do what you have to do for yourself).

good luck, sallyc.

Re: visit from 1st counselor
Go to the next F&T meeting. Give your testimony on how you know the 1st counselor is a pervert.

Re: visit from 1st counselor
check out the SLTrib website, a mormon bishop and local town mayor just had an affair with one of his congregation. Of course, since he confessed to his stake prez he thinks he is all clear. In fact, he states "my conscience is clear".

Mormon theology teaches men they are superior and will soon be gods, with many wives and even a planet or two. Sounds like this guy was just preparing himself for the orgy to come.

I would turn him in asap to his church authorities for oogling you, coming on to you, inappropriate touching and visting a female all by himself, which is against church policy.

Re: visit from 1st counselor
I would tell the bishop. But, they're probably best friends, so that won't go far.

I would also tell the Stake pres. But, they're also probably good friends.

I would write a letter to the"brethren" in Salt Lake City. They will have a hissy fit. You may never hear about it, but the last thing they need is a sexual assault lawsuit.

I would also write a letter to the RSP and tell her. Why? So when it gets back to her that the first counselor tried to feel up sister so and so, she'll know its true. Also, she probably has to work with this guy. She'll be aware that he may have a problem keeping his hands to himself.

I would also write a letter to the young women's president. For the same above reasons.

I promise, if you write these letters, you will never see this guy again. Predators avoid people who tell on them.

He shouldn't have done any of that!
You felt creepy because of his behavior and the vibes he was sending out.

If it happens again, say, "I've promised my parents I not to let men into my apartment. So I'll have to say goodbye." Then close your door and lock it. Be sure you have a chain and don't unhook it for this creep.

Re: visit from 1st counselor
He came by himself? I thought there was a rule that at least 2 priesthood holders had to go together to visit females??

Re: visit from 1st counselor
Call the bishop and report him for doing that. He was not supposed to even walk into your apartment, neither you had to open the door or let him in.
He can't hold that position.

Re: visit from 1st counselor
There is. He knew her family wasn't close by, and that she lived alone. He probably also knew he could be touchy feely and get away with it.

If he comes back for round two he most likely will escalate his touching. It won't be a good thing.

At the very least, don't ever open the door for this guy. He's up to no good.

citizen not logged in
Re: visit from 1st counselor
agreed, having gotten away with it (so far...) once he will up the ante if he gets another opportunity.

this guy is bad news.

the first time you let him in and he did what he did. you have to send a clear message through the channels everyone has mentioned that it wasn't appropriate. i definitely agree with you writing the letters you've been encouraged to write (to the RSP and YWP). get your parents in on this. nothing to be embarrassed about or whatever.

next time (and i hope you never see him again anywhere!) you have to send a clear message that you have boundaries and he isn't allowed to cross them. no handshake, no nothing.

we are rooting for you!

Chicken N. Backpacks
Re: visit from 1st counselor
OK, I'll say there is the SLIGHT possibility that he is so naive that he didn't realize how wrong it was, but more a possibility that back in high school he saw you and had "promptings" (and not of the Holy Ghost variety). He knows very well that church rules are against him being alone with you, and as stupid as that rule sounds to an outsider, it's there not because woman can't control their urges, but men. On the other hand, he's probably thinking he can get off scott-free if he's found out to be pervy because he would blame the "adversary" and he would be forgiven more than you (because you have to be at fault for not being "modest", and besides he's a priesthood holder).

Just some thoughts. I may be way off the mark.

Re: visit from 1st counselor
OP, some excellent advice from everybody.

In addition to making calls and writing letters as recommended here, please protect yourself by making sure that you're never alone with him again.

He's tipped his hand quite clearly as to what he thinks he can get away with with you, and will likely up the ante if given another opportunity. That's not mormon love bombing - it was the first stages of a sexual assault. I'd say sexual harassment, but it's not work related. He wanted something from you, and felt he could get away with 'feeling you out' for further progress.

Trust your instincts. What you thought was going on was precisely what was going on. Your intuition and intelligence will serve you well if you let them.

Re: visit from 1st counselor
Exactly. No need to freak out. Just let your parents and the bishop know how inappropriate the whole visit was...ick!

Re: visit from 1st counselor
You don't mention if you are living by yourself or with another family.

This man was quite definitely up to no good. Always listen to your instincts in such matters. If something seems off, it is. As a single woman, you must be very proactive in looking out for your own best interests. If this results in a man being offended, so be it. Let him be offended. Your job is to keep yourself safe. You would have been completely justified in swatting his hand away from you.

Be very, very judicious about opening your door to people that you don't know well, particularly men. There was no reason to let this man into your home, or even a pair of male church visitors for that matter. Again, your job is to protect yourself and to ensure your safety. What they think simply doesn't matter. Period. There have been plenty of times when I've talked to a visitor through a closed door, and refused that visitor entry. You should do the same as needed. Home invasions (and resulting assaults) are not uncommon.

Report this man to the bishop and anyone else who will listen to you. Be prepared for outright disbelief. This is not unusual. You will need to develop a stong backbone.

Be your own best advocate. No one will ever do that job as well as you will.

Summer (from long experience.)

Oh sweetie, I'm so sorry . . .
You have been programmed your entire life to bow to Mormon priesthood holders. I'm sure you didn't even think twice about opening the door - especially because you recognized your friend's dad.

Yowza. You dodged a bullet! As everyone is saying, he broke the rules by visiting you without another priesthood holder. Don't ever open the door to him again. He is a sexual predator and his behavior toward you sure looks like "grooming" to me.

If there is any takeaway lesson to your experience, it is this . . . learn to trust your instincts! Recognize danger signals and act appropriately. You've been taught to obey church "authority" all of your life. It's OK to distrust someone - don't worry about "offending" creepy people. Protect yourself!


Re: visit from 1st counselor
If you were home alone, that's kind of against church rules. They don't let missionaries teach a woman alone, so I imagine it applies here too.
Re: visit from 1st counselor
He should never have even come in your home without someone else there. The missionaries are in pairs and they are not allowed without a priesthood holder. What he did was very wrong.

Re: visit from 1st counselor
It's very strange and inappropriate. I would not let him in again and explain why. Also it irks me that these people always show up without prior notice. I never let them in. It seems like they would get that it is a wasted trip for them to come all the way over to my place just to be told I am not interested in speaking to them. But the sexual overtones of this guy make it more than just an annoyance. He could be dangerous.

Chicken N. Backpacks
Re: visit from 1st counselor
If I may be so bold, I can see Joseph Smith in this story.....

Re: visit from 1st counselor
Creepy, I agree with banning him from ever returning, Write a letter to the Bish and SP explaining why this man is never to come to your home again.
Sally's Reply


Thank you so much for the outpouring of support I received at rfm, some of the posts actually brought tears to my eyes. My dad drove down yesterday to confront this man and guess what, he completely denied he even came to my apt. " I don't know why she would say such a thing." Even scarier my apt.building has video surveillance of the parking lot and they lets us view the tape for the time period in question and this man is not visible anywhere and we watched the tape for over an hour. This creepy sob parked down the street and used a back entrance. I feel stalked at this point. Thankfully my family believes ME. I also took your advice and sent a letter to salt lake city. I'm in the process of transferring schools to within 30 mi. of my parents. This black cloud does have a silver lining in fact, I introduced my dad to rfm and showed him my post, looking at the responses all he said was "wow" I.E. ( I had no idea evil apostates could be so caring ) and I believe my mom, dad and 2 younger sisters are moving towards inactive status and possibly lurking on rfm. I am definitely moving toward resignation status. Thanks again for your support rfm people

citizen not logged in...
Re: visit from 1st counselor update
This is great news! Good for you and good for your Dad (and family) for believing you and having your back. That speaks tremendously about their character and love for you.

Good luck as you continue to navigate school, the faith transition process, etc. (there will be bumps in the road as with all things, but keep up the good work and congratulations for sticking up for yourself--you probably learned a lot about yourself doing that).

You and your family are always welcome here (heads up: it does get a little raw and earthy sometimes, but I'm learning to embrace the spectrum of genuine expression you occasionally find here--it is enormously refreshing)!

Re: visit from 1st counselor update
I'm so glad you told your dad.

This guy intentionally hiding his presence at your place is downright scary. I'm so so glad it wasn't any worse than it was. I'm so glad you didn't brush it off, or think it was all in your head.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to learn this guy has done this before. He's put a lot of thought into who, where, when, and how to get through the door. He is up to no good.

Re: visit from 1st counselor update
" I don't know why she would say such a thing." Even scarier my apt.building has video surveillance of the parking lot and they lets us view the tape for the time period in question and this man is not visible anywhere and we watched the tape for over an hour. This creepy sob parked down the street and used a back entrance. I feel stalked at this point."

Time to call the police and issue a restraining order...

Devoted Exmo
Re: visit from 1st counselor update
I'm echoing Mia's sentiments. This guy had a plan, and a bad one at that. Glad you're getting out of there and your family's backing you up!

They don't want me back
Yes, no offical church business would require him to come alone
Seems to me he was looking for a vernerable woman he could take advantage of. All your red flags are going up b/c something is way way off about this guy.

Wonder if he has a record....

Thanks so much for the update.
I'm glad you and your family took this seriously.

That guy is a stalker or he wouldn't have lied about the visit.

They don't want me back
yep, I agree....
That fact that he new how to avoid surveillance cameras it very telling an the fact that he did it says more, and dening his visit says even more....

I get the feeling you're lucky he left when you asked him to.

Lethbridge Reprobate
Re: visit from 1st counselor update
Sounds like this a$$hole needs some frontier justice!

Ron Burr

"Recovery from Mormonism -"