The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter

suckafoo Oct. 2012

This is the new party line my husband's family is using whenever I point something out. That history is not relevant today and what matters is the church today.
I wonder if they have been told this somewhere and are now repeating it because I hear a lot of people on here who are being told this by relatives.

I have heard this response several times in order to excuse anything I have to say about anything.
Have they now been told this one to repeat? It almost seems like they all conform to saying the exact same responses.

CTRringturnsmyfingergreen
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
This is why you can't argue in a meaningful way with a Mormon. In their mind, the living "prophet,seer,revelator" trumps everything ever said in the past. End of argument. As far as I know, it's always been this way.

rob
Good to know.

Guess the BoM which is supposedly a "history" doesn't matter either?

Puli
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
Sounds like an Orwellian Big Brother to me...

xyz
They know if they lie loud enough and long enough that their past will disappear.
That's why there's a statue of that sinister old traitor Brigham Young standing smack in the middle of the U.S. Capitol Building.

wine country girl
That's ok. Their present isn't very good either.

taketheredpill
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
Yep!

This is were my brain does back-flips.

My wife said, "Why do you care about what happened so long ago? Just think about now and not some old history, or whatever!" My brain blew a micro-chip. How can you argue with that? If your spouse can't connect the dots at all; it's going to be a long road.

But, for most people who can connect and choose not to look at the picture after the dots are connected; are stuck in a personal cognitive-dissonance.

twojedis
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
My husband has recently been corresponding with a member of our ward. In response to the lechery of JS and his many wives, he received this:

"I don't believe the church is hiding anything. Just because it isn't in the Sunday School lesson doesn't mean it's hidden. You easily found it in church historical documents, right? And the church HAS made a statement: No church leader is ever going to be perfect! Here's the trouble: you are trying to use current thinking and standards to explain something that happened 130 years ago. Things were different then. The Church was different then. You don't know the whole story. We never will. So let it go. That does not affect my testimony that the DOCTRINE is perfect, not the people. I am fully aware of other things in Church History that makes me raise an eyebrow, but like I said, we don't know the whole story or the accurate circumstances. The doctrine brings me closer to Christ and that is the MOST important thing: my relationship with our Savior. This is Christ's church and he leads it through his prophets. The Book of Mormon testifies of Christ just as the Bible does. Through the sealing ordinances in the temple, I can live with my family forever and have that happiness! What a blessing the I don't believe the church is hiding anything. Just because it isn't in the Sunday School lesson doesn't mean it's hidden. You easily found it in church historical documents, right? And the church HAS made a statement: No church leader is ever going to be perfect! Here's the trouble: you are trying to use current thinking and standards to explain something that happened 130 years ago. Things were different then. The Church was different then. You don't know the whole story. We never will. So let it go. That does not affect my testimony that the DOCTRINE is perfect, not the people. I am fully aware of other things in Church History that makes me raise an eyebrow, but like I said, we don't know the whole story or the accurate circumstances. The doctrine brings me closer to Christ and that is the MOST important thing: my relationship with our Savior. This is Christ's church and he leads it through his prophets. The Book of Mormon testifies of Christ just as the Bible does. Through the sealing ordinances in the temple, I can live with my family forever and have that happiness! What a blessing the gospel is! Don't alienate yourself and your family from this!"

There is no way to reason with logic such as this. It's the epitome of "not all truth is useful".

suckafoo
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
"But what if Joseph Smith totally made up the Book of Mormon and its fake?" "Doesn't matter".
"What if there is no celestial marriage and he made that up to be able to have lots of variety and women?" "Doesn't matter. That's history"
"What if there was no visit from an angel, father and the son to Joseph Smith?" Doesn't matter.

It's all history. Just today matters and what the prophet says today.

tiptoes
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
Tell a father of a beautiful young lady this when he finds out after the fact when his daughter has married a man who forgot to mention that he was married at least 33 times prior, he was questioned multiple times and testified to a crowd that he had never been married before, and had other people lie for him on his behalf. Now, history does not matter does it? How about a traumatized individual of past misdeeds perpetrated against her and she medicates with alcohol when nothing else seems to help her and yet her TBM husband coerces her by relaying that a man who makes it to the celestial kingdom and she does not because of alcohol use, that he can chose a new wife in the afterlife? History does not matter does it? How does lying produce a healthy life?

xyz
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
I guess Mormons won't mind then when B of A comes and reposesses their car and calls in their mortgage.

Mormon: "But I have the entire payment history right here!"

B of A: "History doesn't matter, you said so yourself."

Mormon: "...oh ...yeah ...um ..."

The only people who discredit and disregard history are assholes and idiots.

onendagus
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
I've seen their arguments take two different forms. Sometimes they are saying we can't really know for sure what JS's character was like because it was so long ago. He was just a man, we all make mistakes, etc. Okay, fine. Maybe god is fine with lots of messin around, maybe JS's exploits are over (or under) exaggerated. What we do have however is his life's work, the BOM and the BOA. Since they are both verifiable frauds, they are kinda right, his character is irrelevant.

Other times I think they know there are problems with the history and doctrine so they just want to ignore it and only talk about if the church is working for you personally right now. That is a whole different question in my book. Maybe that is the type of mormon that really does get offended by something someone says and leaves over that. I wasn't able to be that type of mormon nor was that type of belief encouraged in any of my experience with the church.

Timon
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
"Welcome to the LDS church--Hakuna Matata!"

MJ
It works for the Catholics.
But no, it is not particularly new, even for Mormons.

Xyandro
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
Being a prophet, seer, and revelator is a priesthood calling handed down from Joseph Smith. If he didn't restore the priesthood, they're not prophets. So, yes, it DOES matter.

snowball
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
The difference with the Mormon approach is that the history is tied at the hip with today's leadership.

1. Most of the current leadership has repeatedly testified that Joseph Smith's first vision really happened, that the Book of Mormon is true (without any qualifications), and that families can be together forever (a theological byproduct of polygamy).
2. The current leaders claim a line of authority that was restored as a result of JOseph Smith. Without Joseph Smith having legitimate claims, on what basis would they claim authority. They didn't exactly win a competitive election.
3. If it doesn't matter what past prophets have said, why then does it matter so much what the current ones say. How will Mormons look at proposition 8 in 25 years? Perhaps negatively.

CA girl
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
These are the same people who would never, ever allow their daughter to marry a guy who had 4 divorces, sold drugs for 10 years, did time in jail, had multiple tattoos and had lost all track of how many women he slept with. This guy gets baptized and he is going to get the same respect as a young, wholesome RM who was a relative of President Monson as far as a suitor for their daughter. Seriously, would he?

So history does matter. Someone with a history of bad behavior may change his life around but he wouldn't get respect from the sort of TBMs that make statements like this and we all know it. But these people who make all sorts of human mistakes are entitled to the sort of obedience that a perfect God could command? Really? Basically, say that history doesn't matter but don't expect me to believe in someone who doesn't want his history examined or who has a history of bad behavior.

Cynthia
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
My sister did this to me. I wrote a long letter about the importance of history. One point I made was that the church built a new museum to house this "unimportant" history. I also said we are told to keep journals, repent, go on trecks to remember the pioneers, read scriptures about past civilizations, all these things and more deal with past history. She told me she got the point, the history still didn't make a difference to her.

Just browsing
The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter --Here is a KILLER QUESTION !!!
The one question I always get them on is

To all TBM and their apostate friends and relations (namely anyone on this board)

""What happens if the current prophet states that the mode of baptism is changed by revelation to **SPRINKLING** and no longer is baptism to be done by immersion. Is that okay with you"" ??

It stops them dead in their tracks --because of the paradigm shift, they look like a deer in the headlights . But you would be amazed how many people go away and contemplate the repucuccions of the possibility of that happenning..

The contradiction is soo alarming in their minds !!

JB

canadianfriend
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
"History doesn't matter" because they want the history to go away. History (truth) is not their friend. Denial makes everything work for them.

Makurosu
I would say...
"If history doesn't matter, then why do you keep asking me why I quit your church? If the historical problems don't matter to you, then neither should any of my decisions regarding them." Can't have it both ways.

Mia
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
The problem is the foundation is rotten rotten rotten. Nothing stands forever on a rotten foundation. Even if it's gilded with gold, and has been patched and propped over and over. The corner stone is fake, and the rest is rotten and crumbling.

The church pays people to come up with quick little answers and sayings to every problem. It's their way of shutting down anyone who might point out that the structure of the church is corroded and corrupt. Just because they say something to cover the story does not make it true. The church has done this since the very beginning.

Joseph lied to Emma about his affairs. He put a patch on it and called it eternal marriage. That patch has turned into a huge festering sore on the face of the church. They've put a pound of make up on it, but it doesn't look any better. It's still ugly and putrid and always will be.

The first and biggest problem though was the foundational lie. The vision. Several types of materials (lies) were put out there to get the thing started. None of it was stable. Anyone who tried to point it out was silenced with more lies. And so, lie upon lie the foundation was built. Using rotted materials, but telling people that God himself had given them that material.

The church was built on greed and lies. It is currently standing on greed and lies. The only difference is time. Like all lies, it has grown and grown. Then came the internet and put a light on the decaying foundation. The cockroaches are running for cover.

They didn't anticipate that such a huge and powerful light could ever be what took them down. Many of the members have become the patches that are holding the church up. They know that the whole thing will come apart when the patches start to fail. There's nothing there to hold them together. They may always exist, but it will go from being a big shiny edifice to a pile of rubble.

jurmall
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
My Grandmother who lived through WW11 warned me:NEVER,EVER forget the past--for if it is forgotten, history WILL repeat itself!!

terrydactyl
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
Simply put this history is the founding of the church. If it's founding doesn't matter why should the church matter?

spaghetti oh
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
suckafoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is the new party line my husband's family is
> using whenever I point something out. That
> history is not relevant today and what matters is
> the church today.

Remember this suckafoo when they (your inlaws/tssc) start talking about the pioneers! Bake them a crow pie.

rise
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
My response to when TBMs say history doesn't matter is, "So we should just forgot about the Nazis history?"

Mia
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
If history doesn't matter why are they baptizing all the dead people?

Why do they have pioneer day and monuments plastered all over slc?
Why do they have the D&C?

Why do they have the Joseph Smith building, and spend millions on restoring historical sites all over the country?

why do so many of their hymns talk about the past? Why do they do handcart treks?

caedmon
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
Then the supposed 'great apostasy' doesn't matter.

Then Haun's Mill doesn't matter.

Then the 'extermination order' doesn't matter.

We can all play that game.

baura
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter --Here is a KILLER QUESTION !!!
When the Endowment ceremony was radically changed in 1990 a lot of defenders of the faith sniffed that it was just the FORM of the ordinance that had changed, not the ordinance itself.

But, I pointed out, the Mormons have been complaining about the Catholics and Protestants sprinkling for years as proof that they were apostate, that they "changed the ordinances." Haven't the Mormons done the same thing they said was proof the others were apostate?

"Yes, but that's different."

dogeatdog
Re: The New Party Line? History Doesn't Matter
If in fact the histor of the Church does NOT matter, then how can they make the claim to be the one true church - the gospel restored.....If in fact all that matters is what's going on today, then they can't make the truth claims they do - they are just one of many and therefore there is no reason to join, unless it's because you like other parts of it.

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"