The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
by cc may 2012
I was reading an article on Yahoo the other day about Mormons: The Least you Should Know, http://news.yahoo.com/mormons-least-know-155434487--abc-news-politics.html
and it referred to a question asked by Mike Huckabee in 2007 "Don't Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?" The author goes on to say that the answer is no...the Mormons do not believe it...nor does Mormonism teach it. There is no such thing written in any of the church doctrine.
Ummmm....I was BIC [born in the covenant] and remember always being taught that Jesus and Satan were brothers, the war in heaven, Satan cast out, all of that. Is this yet another thing TSCC [this so called church] is moving away from because it's not popular? Since when was this never taught?
Anon regular lurker
It's amazing to me too, that Apologists and the church deny that we all were taught this...
I certainlty was. It's funny to see the Apologist board to into spin mode. They are not really interested in the actual fact of whether or not the church teaches it, but rather the negetive impact it's having on the church in the press.
I think it's dishonesty to the extreme, that the church is trying to spin this off as nothing, and that they don't teach it. REALLY?? so the apologists are running around asking for "Official Statements" CFR's, to prove this. They want us to believe that since it's nowhere in the standard works, that they are not responsible for it, and it's not on the books. Or even better, that somehow all of us who were brought up in the church somehow forgot about it! (Not me Tommy)
Reminds of of when Gordo said that we don't teach men becoming gods? Of course it's taught, but he lied, to make himself and the church not look as bad to the public.
Horsefeathers
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
I distinctly remember it being taught.
If they're now saying it never was, it's another lie to add to the continuing lying & denying.
Horsefeathers
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
Just checked MD, McConkie refers to Satan as a spirit child of God, but doesn't apply the word "brother" to him specifically.
By inference, if not outright labeling, that'd make him our brother, as much as Jesus would be.
ambivalent exmo
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
Whatever. I don't cAre what the mopologists say,
the concept that Jesus and Satan were spirit brothers was
ABSOLUTELY taught to me my entire life.
Don't the FAIR tools understand that people actually remember?
I never, never turned in my teaching manuals at the end of the year.
I have proof, baby.
Fetal Deity
Mormon church's official website affirms that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers
"On first hearing, the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ, are brothers may seem surprising to some—especially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations. But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers."
http://www.lds.org/ensign/1986/06/i-have-a-question
Fetal Deity
Here's another reference
“'The importance of not accommodating temptation in the least degree is underlined by the Savior’s example. Did not he recognize the danger when he was on the mountain with his fallen brother, Lucifer, being sorely tempted by that master tempter?'"
http://institute.lds.org/manuals/new-testament-institute-student-manual/...
cludgie
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
Yet another denial that is easily provable.
CA girl
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
I really don't understand why more old timers don't leave the church over stuff like this. They know what they were taught as kids back in the 60s/70s/80s - and then they flat out hear the church denying they ever taught a certain doctrine. But those members KNOW the church is lying. Doesn't that bother them? I could have continued to live with the weird beliefs of the church and even the obnoxiousness of a number of the members in my ward. But I couldn't live with the outright LIES the church was telling. It would have been better if they told the truth, no matter how weird. But to hear them lie and know they were expecting me as a member to cover for their lying ... that was NOT OK.
Laban's Head
Another entry into the ever-growing body of "Folklore"
I grew up with that teaching also.
Tupperwhere
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
It was taught to me as well. WITHOUT a doubt I remember it clearly.
Robin
I agree with you...
TSCC was built on being bat crap crazy, why change that? That was the (supposed) need for the restoration-all other churches had it wrong. Why do they want to appear mainstream now? I hate Brigham but can appreciate how he spoke his racist, chauvinistic, narcissistic mind! Opposite of the lullaby talks given in conference now.
Jim Huston
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
Jesus More Meek
William H. Smart, Conference Report, April 1901
My mind goes back when I contemplate this principle of obedience, to that which we learn in the Pearl of Great Price, when in the councils of heaven the foundations of the earth and the building thereof were taken into consideration. Two plans were laid before the councils and because of the bumble and obedient spirit that was shown in Jesus Christ, He was chosen to carry out that plan, which His Father approved, and Satan rebelled because the trust was given unto his more meek brother Jesus.
Jesus is Satan’s Older Brother
John A. Widtsoe, Evidences and Reconciliations, p. 209
The story of Lucifer is the most terrible example of such apostasy. Lucifer, son of the morning, through diligent search for truth and the use of it, had become one of the foremost in the assembly of those invited to undertake the experiences of earth. But, in that Great Council, his personal ambition and love of power overcame him. He pitted his own plan and will against the purposes of God. He strove to gain the birthright of his Elder Brother, Jesus the Christ.
Satan is Christ’s Brother
Joseph F. Merrill, Conference Report, April 1949
Now there is another personality of which I desire to speak, one that the world calls by a name, but in whose reality as a personal Being it does not believe and that person is Satan, the Devil. But according to our understanding and teaching. Satan is a person with a spirit body, in form like that of all other men. He is a spirit brother of ours and of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is our Elder Brother in the spirit world.
Lucifer Rebelled
Robert D. Hales, Ensign, May 1990
We cannot remember that we once lived with our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and that we probably sat in meetings much like this, where the Father’s plan for us was explained. We cannot remember that Lucifer, a son of God the Father, a brother of Jesus Christ, rebelled against God’s plan and, in his rebellion, promised he would bring us all back home.
Neal A. Maxwell, Deposition of a Disciple, p. 11
Lucifer knew about this plan, and his very pleading was real rebellion. The scriptures tell us plainly that he sought a throne above the stars and God. (2 Nephi 24:13.) Therefore, he was from the beginning a serious rebel. President George Q. Cannon said, "He was our brother, sitting side by side with our Redeemer, having equal opportunities with him. But he rebelled. He turned against the Father because he could not have his own way."
Contest between Jesus and Satan
Spencer W. Kimball, Conference Report, April 1964
There is another power in this world forceful and vicious. In the wilderness of Judaea, on the temple's pinnacles and on the high mountain, a momentous contest took place between two brothers, Jehovah and Lucifer, sons of Elohim.
Satan is a Son of God
Harold B. Lee, The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, p. 36
Who is Satan? Satan was the spiritual offspring of Deity. He was a spiritual brother to the Chosen, the one whom we have come to know as the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.
One Third of Heaven Follows Lucifer
Joseph Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 208
Who is it that is at the head of this? It is the Devil, the mighty Lucifer, the great prince of the angels, and the brother of Jesus. He left the province of his Father, and took with him a third part of his Father's kingdom, and there was no other alternative but to banish him. God would have saved him if he could; but he could not. Lucifer and all his host went away to themselves, and they are our foes; they are after us, and they are after this whole people; and I tell you they are as thick as I want them.
Lucifer and Jehovah Sons
Spencer W. Kimball, The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 33
But thank God that there were enough sane and sagacious souls on the side of truth and wisdom and the rebellious souls were vanquished as to the eternal and ultimate program. The principal personalities in this great drama were a Father Elohim, perfect in wisdom, judgment, and person, and two sons, Lucifer and Jehovah.
Satan Wanted to be Savior
Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel through the Ages, p. 15
The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind.
Jesus Smith
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
Yes, it was taught. BUT...
This doctrine is minor. It's not directly placed, clearly-stated in the canonized scriptures.
Furthermore, even if it was, it wouldn't matter.
Adam & Eve are canonized, temple-ceremony centered and taught in the PoGP as literally being the first humans/flesh of all things.
YET, when evolution showed this as ridiculous, LDSinc just shrugged and said that the policy on evolution wasn't clear or specific and that people can believe what they want.
Old-timers and others rarely leave over it. It matters to perhaps a fraction of percent of those that actually study the science, and even of those, few leave over it.
This, despite the fall being foundational to the atonement and all else that comes with essential gospel principles.
Therefore, the lucifer-brother-to-jesus doctrine is very "boring" stuff.
xyz
Fantastic list! Thanks! n
dimmesdale
Of COURSE it was taught!
Thanks for the list, JH!
guynoirprivateeye
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
+1
the 'Greatest Value' there is how the church turns simple Christianity on its head.
Kindness, Honesty, Charity? Mercy-Compassion, Trust & Respect?
no where in today's focus.
Mia
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
OH HELL YES! Absolutely. Do they think nobody knows what they've been taught? They don't think members are going to ask them what they are talking about? Nobody is going to ask them why they are lying? REALLY???
This is the kind of stuff that sends people running to the internet. They want to make sure they know what they think they know. The church is a crazy making machine.
Makurosu
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
From the LDS Endowment:
LUCIFER: Eve, here is some of the fruit of that tree. It will make you wise. It is delicious to the taste and very desirable.
EVE: Who are you?
LUCIFER: I am your brother.
EVE: You, my brother, and come here to persuade me to disobey Father?
http://www.ldsendowment.org/garden.html
Jesus is often referred to as an "elder brother" in the LDS Church. Therefore, Jesus and Lucifer (and all the rest of us) are brothers and sisters in the family of a Heavenly Father and Mother.
Mormons are denying that? Wow.
steve benson
Official LDS Church Doctrine: Mormon Apologists and Satan Are Brothers.
AmIDarkNow?
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
Thanks Jim. I saved all the references of what wasn't taught that I really was taught in Sacrament, SS and Priesthood classes for nigh onto forty years.
Heresy
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
http://mormonvoices.org/1/jesus-brother-of-satan
If you talk around it long enough, apparently it means whatever you want it to.
David A
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
"Brothers" or not, God created an evil being and still gives him power.
Oxymormon
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
Anyone remember the show "My Turn On Earth"? It was like the mormon "Godspell"
Anyway, in that show, the war in heaven is talked about as "Our brother Lucifer stood up and said, 'I have a plan....' Then, our brother Jesus said..."etc.
Guess no more royalties for Lex deAzevedo now that they never taught that; his show is no longer doctrinally sound.
Oxymormon
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
Here's a link to the song:
http://youtu.be/PfO6fYSLROs
idleswell
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
1. I don't find this article damning against the Church at all: I have no idea who it cites for this doctrinal opinion.
2. I've never understood the criticism from anti-Mormons regarding a statement that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. When I read such a criticism as point 17 (or whatever) against the Church, I would dismiss it as a dispute over religious opinion. If anything, including it diminishes the strength of other well-documented points.
When the facts are clearly in our favour, there is no need to speculate.
just a thought
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
I thought integrity required standing up for your beliefs, especially when it is unpopular or inconvienent to do so.
And yet every single time the press reports on some real mormon belief that the mainstream might consider strange, the church back pedals, spins and walks away. Don't know that we teach that..derpity derp derp.
They want so bad to be considered mainstream christians that they've sold their soul.
Shame on them.
Tupperwhere
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
and super shame on them for causing members and former members to question their own sanity about what's been pounded into their heads since childhood. As a BIC former TBM I find this highly offensive. I don't care how insignificant their lie appears to others. If I know I was taught it growing up and they are now denying that fact that is a LIE. Plain and simple. I'm enjoying watching their tangled web weave larger each and every day. It's still insulting though.
Mia
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
In cleon skousen's (forward by ETB)book Prophecy and modern times, he says:
"Lucifer's presence on the earth is permitted only through the sufferance of his elder brother, Jesus Christ."
page 129
anonow
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
People here are assuming that TSCC is now saying that jesus and satan are not brothers. Not true. The autor of this article is saying it and we don't even know who he is. Obviously not an authoritative representative. As many have pointed out here the concept is well represented in the Mormon literature. So I don't understand why people here are saying the TSCC is backing away from the doctrine? The author of this article is just wrong.
Raptor Jesus
Can't you evil anti-Mormons put down your sippy cups of hate juice for one second? TSCC has NEVER ONCE said Jesus and Santa are brothers.
T-Bone
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
Thank you, Jim! I grew up in the Kimball era, when they were still teaching this from the pulpit, and people quoted it in sacrament meeting talks. Our home teachers talked about it.
Of course, apologists will twist themselves in to pretzels trying to explain this away. Any so-called prophet was just "speaking as a man" and the home teachers must have misunderstood.
When it all comes down to it, they say we left because we didn't really understand Mormonism. LOL! The truth is that we left because we figured it out for the scam it is.
T-Bone
just a thought
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
I recall the question was raised by Huckabee back in Dec of 2007. The associated press asked the church for a clarification. This was the response:
"We believe, as other Christians believe and as Paul wrote, that God is the father of all," said the spokeswoman, Kim Farah.
"That means that all beings were created by God and are his spirit children. Christ, on the other hand, was the only begotten in the flesh and we worship him as the son of God and the savior of mankind," she said. "Satan is the exact opposite of who Christ is and what he stands for."
Not exactly a full throated endorsement of a doctrine we have all been taught.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695235240/Huckabee-asks-if-Mormons-be...
CA girl
Excellent point, Mak
anonow
The statement still says what I was taught...
That jesus and satan are brothers in the spiritual sense.
jaredsotherbrother
Re: The Church never taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
Did I miss something here? I couldn't find any official church citation or confirmation in the Yahoo article. The article did mention Mormon.org but didn't specifically state that's where he got the info. I did a quick search of Mormon.org and found nothing.
Does anybody now of an official of the church making the statement that Jesus and Satan are not brothers? I'd really like to throw this in my TBM sister's face, but need documentation.
cc
Re: The statement still says what I was taught...
Thank you for all of your replies everyone... Very informative and great information showing that it was taught and is in church doctrine. The article I quoted does go on to say that Huckabee even apologized to Romney for bringing up the question because he never thought it would be published. I think the references people have shared all shows how the church continually contradicts itself when faced with criticism it doesn't like and doctrines have changed and are still changing. Thanks again for all your replies..I love this board even though I am a longtime lurker and don't post much, it has helped me so much in my recovery.
"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"