Recovery from Mormonism

Already Gone Oct. 2014

Nearly every single talk was on staying in the church, following the prophet, how leaders are inspired, and how they know best for you and how they are not out of touch or bigoted.

Same lines were given over and over: "If it is through my voice, or the voice of my servants, it is the same." and "some people try to dictate how the church is run...." Several mentioned that they aren't out of touch and aren't bigoted.

I was especially surprised that Neil Anderson actually mentioned (without detail) about Joseph Smith's "character flaws" and a vague mention of the Salamander Letter. Several others mentioned people losing their testimonies.

I got a chuckle out of Ballard quoting Brigham Young regarding apostates "leaving the boat". (uh, really, there were major, major reasons to leave the church when he was the church president). Anderson used the metaphor of an "oxygen mask". Scott said that family home evening is more important then your employment. Sure, I'll quit my job so that I can have FHE with the kids. But I will need money to buy food for the treats...

I have never seen them this defensive, scared or angry. Uchdorf's "Doubt Your Doubts" a year ago was in the same vein, but it now way was it a pervasive theme at conferences, at least that I can remember.

sherlock
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

And I think we can take from these talks that they are really battling against an increasing tide of people waking up and leaving.

deco
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

They have fully shifted into defensive mode.

It is like Germany after D-day. We may see a counter strike, like the Battle of the Bulge, but the game has changed forever.

My guess is that they are courting the old school membership which are undoubtedly their most faithful donors.

They have played their hand to the point it will be very difficult to the necessary watering down of doctrine which will alienate the old guard.

The problem is that their old guard is literally dying off.

There is also their systematic problem of the designation of leadership which will always have them generations behind the times.

I am contrarian to most as I think they have very, very bad financial problems. This thing has been a Ponzi scheme since the beginning and all the handwriting is on the wall. Ponzis work well when there is a positive cash flow. The crash suddenly when there is a negative cash flow.

It is going to be interesting in the next couple of years.

canadianfriend

Re: Shocked at this General Conference

I hope deco is right. If they don't have serious financial problems, they deserve them. I'm of two minds regarding their finances. They obviously have a vast amount of assets (in Florida and Hawaii to name just two), but on the other hand it's not uncommon for large corporations to fail when things go wrong even slightly. I think the fact that they are not announcing new temples is very telling. They keep spouting their growth stats, and how "vibrant" their "global faith" is. We all know that's a load of BS.
I fully agree with deco on this point: things are going to be very interesting in the next couple of years.

HopiBon!
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

I agree that this was by far the most defensive I've every seen them. Literally 50% of the talks were about people leaving (getting out of the boat, not holding on with both hands, not listening to those who know better). Pretty culty stuff.

greensmythe
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

They put millions into prop 8... Gay marriage now legal in 30 states

They put billions into City Creek.. Brick and mortar retail is tanking...

Gordon went on a temple and building shopping spree.. The tithing revenues are drying up

Millions of new converts... In countries where annual Per capita income is barely in the thousands.

Missionary surge... Fruitless

Mitt Romney... No thanks

Members? ... Leaving in droves

Mormons haven't had a lot of good news lately..

madalice
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

They won't be getting people to come back like they did in the past.

People who leave because they found out the what real mormonism is cannot un learn what they now know. Its not like they left because they just got tired of church. They left because they were betrayed and lied to. The lies are the very foundation of mormonism. They cannot be undone or reversed.

The internet has opened the Pandora's box. The truth is out into the light of day. There's nothing that the mormon church can do or say that will allow them the ability to keep members in the dark anymore.

Shummy
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

something else that stood out were the schmoozy reassurances that the cadre of senile old men had everything covered

no matter what

cover the profit's butt no matter what

god said so

got that?

*In a rare, 75-minute interview with the Deseret News, Elder Hallstrom provided an insider's view into the inner workings of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve, revealing insight into their work schedules, weekly meetings, travel schedules and personal ministries they said illustrate that LDS leaders are thoroughly engaged and relevant.*

rotflmfao

Chump
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

"I think the fact that they are not announcing new temples is very telling."

Even more so, the fact that Monson has taken time in the last 2 conferences to explain why they aren't announcing temple seems odd...like the lack of announcements needs some justification. It makes them sound like 4 year olds trying to cover up something. Why do they need to say anything?

thingsithink
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

Maybe Meet The Mormons will be a bigger hit than the Book of Mormon play.

axeldc
Please don't leave us!

They are in full defensive mode.

At first I just thought it was anecdotal evidence from Exmos that the church was suffering losses. Now we have an entire conference dedicated to staunching the bleeding.

They really deserve this. Besides the problems they cannot fix, like JS and BY, they have problems they have brought upon themselves:

1) They keep cutting services for members while still demanding donations. Mormonism just sounds no fun now, but you are still supposed to funnel 1 1/2 months pay to them every year.

2) They have invested in non-essential items like a mall in SLC and now a residential complex in Philly. They need to restore the member experience, not throw away more money trying to get rich.

3) They tried to appease the Evangelicals by crusading against gays. Today was game over as even Utah has full marriage equality over their loud objections.

4) The Ordain Women movement was a national black eye. Sure, they got KK out, but now the entire world knows what sexist pigs they are. Women make up more than half the active church, and they think they can treat them like 2nd class citizens.

5) They need to change their tontine system of government. Choosing the next senior apostle when the President finally keels over is hampering their flexibility. They have a prophet pushing 90 and his immediate successor is about 2 steps ahead of him racing to the grave. If Monson outlive Packer, then the next guy will be another 80-something waiting to die.

Instead of empowering 80-somethings, they need to put them out to pasture. 80 is too old to be running a huge business and seniority is a terrible way to choose a leader. How many GAs would vote for Packer even if he were not wheezing his last breaths?

If I were given control of the church for a year, I would make these changes. They are sinking fast and the old men at the rudder don't have the strength to steer.

Stay on the boat? It's listing and taking on water fast. Grab a life vest and jump off fast!

zenith
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

It is just the beginning of the end for these false prophets and their manmade gods. The only growth in the church is now in the uneducated and very poor regions of the world, namely Latin America. These are what are known to other missionaries in the Christian faith as “rice” Christians. When the Mormon grow tired, or to cash strapped to give out handouts of food, and financial help to these new members in this part of the world these new Mormons will just go back to the Catholic Church. The LDS is rotting from the inside out. From the cookie cuter temples that were cranked cheaply, and shoddy out of the production line like marble clade doublewides in the 1990’s to the antidepressant, pill popping members, it is all a tragic joke on humanity. The porn, the divorce rate, and the suicides are all starting to take a toll on this LDS franchise.

Rusty_Ballard
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

I have always believed if you have to remind and tell people that you are still relevant then you aren't really that relevant.

thedesertrat1
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

How sad when the truth doth proclaim it'self

Chump
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

Did anyone watch the bit on Meet the Mormons between sessions? They said that the movie will be showing in the Legacy Theater in the JS Memorial Building next year and will also show on cable (BYUtv, I assume). Who would pay to see it when they can wait a couple months and see it for free?

shannon
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

Really informative thread. Thanks everyone. I no longer have the patience to listen to conference anymore (10 years out).

It sounds as if the entire tone of this GC is a marked contrast to the glory days of Gordon B. Hinkley when he promised that one day "temples will dot the earth." Then he went on a building frenzy and overshot his goal of 100 temples.I was astounded. The true church was filling the Earth. I was sure the Second Coming was just around the corner ... probably just after the millenium (Y2K).

Well, we're still waiting. It doesn't look good boys. Sigh.

Pooped
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

They doth protest too much.

rhgc
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

Cut the cash flow 10 to 15 per cent and it becomes a losing proposition and retrenchment will follow, and with retrenchment follows a precipitous collapse.

blueorchid
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

Masking desperation works about as well as putting lipstick on a pig. Isn't it grand?

Conference brought to mind that old episode of Lucy and Ethyl trying to get the candy before it flew off the convert belt, even if they had to stuff it in their mouths.

Nomomo4evermo
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

Of course they're angry! Many Members are refusing to follow these men BLINDLY anymore. People are asking questions. The Brethren...don't like questions!!! Obey! Obey! Obey! Pay! Pay! Pay!

Shummy
Re: Shocked at this General Conference
pay lay ale

DR B. BUZZARD BAIT
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

I only watched conference a couple of minutes - Hollands lies that the brethern will not lead astray! I about puked and shut it down! The Lord does say some things about liars and HE Qualifies as a professional LIAR!

byuboner
Re: Please don't leave us!

The finances remind me of Japan in the 1980s, remember their economy? It seemed that the electronic and auto industries would make it impossible for the Japanese economy to fail. And then in the late 1990s the impossible happened--the Japanese government failed to intervene when their economy took a hit and the bottom fell out.

I think that the Morg is in that position today. It's over-extended itself with expensive buildings that will need constant maintenance. The residential buildings and office spaces are an attempt to diversify its real estate holdings, but face it, under Gordo Hinckley there was an unprecedented spending spree.

We'll probably never know, but I'll bet the Morg is living off of its investments. And once they start touching the principle, there's going to be some pricey real estate up for sale. Boner.

azsteve
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

At one time, an acknowledgment from the pulpit at general conference, that people are leaving the church wouldn't have happened. The church is finally starting to take the defensive, even amongst their own members. In a few years, maybe we'll see general conference talks encouraging people to not take others with them when they resign. They can ask and we can say no.

sunshine
Re: Shocked at this General Conference

10% of 4 million average active = 400,000.

Didn't Richard Packman say a few years ago that he had it under good authority that at least 100,000 a year were resigning?

Your figure's may not be that off.

If, of that 4 million active, if only about 50% of those are tithe payers, then I would hazard a guess that financial problems may not be a crazy conspiracy, especially if they just paid billions in cash reserves for a mall.

Anecdotally, in my ward alone, in the past 3 years, 15% of us tithe payers have gone inactive. (ward of 60 attending, 9 of us have left). No one has resigned at the moment.

Interesting times.

sherlock
Re: Please don't leave us!

Good post. I also love it how you can easily turn around their analogies....."please stay on HMS Titanic, it will never sink!"

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"