Recovery from Mormonism

serena

I can't think of a one. Do even the JW's do that? Got to hurry up and put the leash and collar on, then apply the thumb screws. "Yes please, sir, turn it tighter!"

bona dea
Re: Name any other religious org that presses for baptism ASAP like Moism does?
Not the mainstream ones, The expect you to take classes, know what is expected and think it through. Most want people who will stick through it,As one Catholic deacon said to me, "The world does not need any more bad Catholics"

serena
I didn't think so - I'd think it would be yet another red flag; "Run away - run far away!"
And thank you for being civil. It's a pleasant surprise.

dagny
How about...
...any religion that baptizes someone at birth? Now that's what I call ASAP!

At least with Mormons a few people between birth and age 8 don't end up getting baptized. At least they pretend the kid has a choice.

Check out the justification from Catholic Answers:

"Christ Calls All to Baptism

Although Fundamentalists are the most recent critics of infant baptism, opposition to infant baptism is not a new phenomenon. In the Middle Ages, some groups developed that rejected infant baptism, e.g., the Waldenses and Catharists. Later, the Anabaptists ("re-baptizers") echoed them, claiming that infants are incapable of being baptized validly. But the historic Christian Church has always held that Christ’s law applies to infants as well as adults, for Jesus said that no one can enter heaven unless he has been born again of water and the Holy Spirit (John 3:5). His words can be taken to apply to anyone capable of belonging to his kingdom. He asserted such even for children: "Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 19:14).

More detail is given in Luke’s account of this event, which reads: "Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them; and when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to him, saying, ‘Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God’" (Luke 18:15–16)."

Link to site:

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/infant-baptism

(Hey, don't say this message isn't civil just because of the message. :-))

presbyterian
Re: Name any other religious org that presses for baptism ASAP like Moism does?
Oh yeah, Greek Orthodox also baptizes at birth, and First Communion is at the time of baptism. If you want to join them later, you get dunked.

bona dea
Re: I didn't think so - I'd think it would be yet another red flag; "Run away - run far away!"
I am generally civil when you are. Just a thought

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2011 09:08PM by bona dea.

Cheryl
Is the point of the thread about high pressuring people to commit immediately?
That's one of the characteristics of a heavy duty religious cult.

The baptism issue with most churches isn't about commitment so much as giving a baby blessing.

bona dea
Re: How about...
You are not a full member until you are confimed which takes place much later and unlike the morg, you can just leave and you wont be bothered. You won't be counted on parish rolls if you never show up and you won't get loved bombed.FAMILY MAY PRESSURE YOU, BUT THE CHURCH WILL MOT LIKELY ACCEPT YOUR DECISN AND LEAVE YOU ALONE

bona dea
Re: I didn't think so - I'd think it would be yet another red flag; "Run away - run far away!"
You comitt when you are confirmed and usually after taking special classes. Ypu are not a full member without confirmationThis is waht happens in many churches which baptize infants

dagny
That's nice.
Um, surprising as it is, my goal is not about getting a civil response from you- or any response from you.

Just a thought.

(I won't participate with you in derailing this thread about your rude police tactics any further but thanks for your advice. :-))

loveskids
Re: Name any other religious org that presses for baptism ASAP like Moism does?
The Christian church I attend usually has 2 group baptisms a YEAR. It's in the river and it is so cool. I wanted to be baptized (just to wash away the stupid morg baptism. Like it matters) with my 2 kids,at the same time last year. They do that all the time and film all the baptisms. It is very emotional as you watch a whole family being baptized at the same time. Coming up out of the river with these huge smiles on their faces. Anyway...my pastor wanted me to wait with the kids because he wanted to make sure they totally understood what they were doing. What a concept!!! Wait till they get it and have ALL their questions answered.

SilkRose
Were SUPER the opposite. THey made you take multiple learning classes as well as fully understand the commitment you were making. Baptism was taken seriously.

The church did NOT push "membership" or Baptisms. Family pressure however, was a different story.

I had never heard of the terms "inactive" or "active" member before mormonism. No one really cares if you come or not. Missing a Sunday or three wasn't a blip on the radar unless you held an important position (totally different then a calling as people VOLUNTEERED for jobs and some were paid).

Makurosu
Yep, we had the soft commit on the 1st discussion and the hard commit on the 2nd.
We were to bet the farm on the 2nd discussion. If they wouldn't commit to be baptized at that time, then there really was no point in continuing with the discussions, since they probably wouldn't be baptized ever.

SilkRose
Commited so quickly and jumped in headfirst? TO me that would signify a lack of sincerity and understanding fully of the commitment.

This was always one of those things that I never understood about the moron church....

Seems like they are setting themselves up for failure with retaining the "members".

serena
Re: Is the point of the thread about high pressuring people to commit immediately? Yes.
Yes, that was what I was asking. It isn't the same at all as baptizing infants, which is really more of a christening. And there are no strings attached, no pressuring.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2011 09:03PM by serena.

axeldc
Mormons dissemble on infant baptism
That was a big issue for JS, as evidenced in the BofM. However, most religions require you to be over certain age. Catholics have 1st communion, Jews have Bar Mitzvah. Those are usually close to puberty.

If anything, the Mormon 8 year old baptism is premature. How many 2nd graders are really ready for such a commitment?

axeldc
MTC
I remember learning the lessons in the MTC, and I thought the 2nd contact baptism commitment was absurd. We rarely tried that in the field, because most people were just mildly curious and would either turn us down or accept without understanding what it meant.

Mormons act like they are selling time shares rather than converting people to a new religion and lifestyle.

bona dea
Re: That's nice.
I was posting to serena who was referring to a comment I made in another thread about her remarks on SusieQ. She seems to have a vendetta against her and I ,along, with some otherposters commented on it. It had nothing to do with you . Belive it or not, everything I post isn't about you.
This is the post from the top of the thread that I was referring to. Since my post isn't under yours, doesn't have the same heading and has nothing about you, I'd have to say that your are being a bit paranoid.

I didn't think so - I'd think it would be yet another red flag; "Run away - run far away!"

And thank you for being civil. It's a pleasant surprise.

This is the thread that started it if you care
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,341578

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2011 09:30PM by bona dea.

omreven
Re: How about...
This is also a commitment of the parents to raise the children in the faith, which would happen with or without baptism. I don't even see anything that inherently wrong with Mormon baptism in of itself - it's the stranglehold that comes with baptism that is problematic. Once you're in, you can't get out and the age of 8 is not a good time to make that kind of commitment, especially with the Mormon stalking. With other faiths that I am familiar with, a more formal membership comes at an older age. Then if at any point a person chooses to leave, they can leave. There's no harassment, stalking, pressure, guilt, callings, harassing your children, blabbing to the parents, snubbing, shunning, or anything. There is no need to formally resign.

rowan
Re: Name any other religious org that presses for baptism ASAP like Moism does?
I can remember my "LDS" mother telling me that my (Bishop) grandfather would be so hurt and disappointed if I did not let him baptize me like he had all my cousins--and also that she was personally responsible for all my sins until I was baptized, and that at 8 years old it was time for me to take on that responsibility.
Have any of you ever heard of that one?
I have learned over the years that LDS women (especially in my family) have no qualms over making up stuff to get you to do what they want you to do! OR making up stuff to excuse what they want to do!
As for quick dunking of converts, I was in a ward once that would not let the investigators attend church until they were baptized! They get taught by the missionaries, dunked and then welcomed to attend church! That was so they were in deep before they met "the crazies"

bona dea
Re: How about...
That is my issue with the Morg. You have to jump through so many hoops to get out. In most churches, if you don't show up or have any contact and they consider gone you for all intents and purposes and will leave you alone.My dad was baptized as a Catholic but never confirmd and didn't attend at all as an adult. I don't think he went as a child although I never thought to ask. He had absolutely no contact whatsoever with anyone from the Catholic church that I remember unless he initiated it. Occasionally the nuns would visit my grandmother who lived with us. She attended mass occasionally and was never pressured by them or the priest to come more often .The priest never came by even though he lived across the street. He was available for my grandmother during her last illness and was very helpful with the funeral, but waited until asked. When my dad died, his service took place in the LDS church and the priest made no attempt to intervene or bury him as a Catholic. I just do not see that happening in the Morg. Some sort of ceremonies for babies are held in many cultures. So long as it doesn't unnecessarily complicate their live and choices, I see no problem.You can leave other churches by simply not going. It is a lot harder to get the Morg out of your life.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2011 05:42PM by bona dea.

Nealster
Re: Name any other religious org that presses for baptism ASAP like Moism does?
rowan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can remember my "LDS" mother telling me that my
> (Bishop) grandfather would be so hurt and
> disappointed if I did not let him baptize me like
> he had all my cousins--and also that she was
> personally responsible for all my sins until I was
> baptized, and that at 8 years old it was time for
> me to take on that responsibility.
> Have any of you ever heard of that one?
> I have learned over the years that LDS women
> (especially in my family) have no qualms over
> making up stuff to get you to do what they want
> you to do! OR making up stuff to excuse what they
> want to do!
> As for quick dunking of converts, I was in a ward
> once that would not let the investigators attend
> church until they were baptized! They get taught
> by the missionaries, dunked and then welcomed to
> attend church! That was so they were in deep
> before they met "the crazies"

Good greif! Talk about signing a contract without reading the terms first! Still, its the same deal in terms of the temple when you think about it.

A few years ago, I was dating a Jewish lady and actually considered converting to Judaism. Now THAT is a difficult religion to join. If anyone of whatever background approaches a Rabbi and asks to join, they are given a short answer: "No". It can take up to 5 years for someone to become a Jew.

msmom
Time share sales? buying a car?
High pressure sales techniques came immediately to mind when I read your question.

PtLoma
Episcopal/Anglican
INFANTS: baptised at several months of age, the idea being that baptism brings the person into God's church and they want the baby to be included. First communion age varies, there is no set rule, usually the parents and priest decide when the child is old enough to understand the meaning of Holy Communion. Most common age is second grade, but it's not fixed. Confirmation is for 14-18 year olds, the idea being they are making an adult affirmation of the baptismal vows made for them when they were infants. Confirmation also recognizes a certain level of achievement in religious education (i.e. you have successfully completed Sunday School through 8th-10th grades).

ADULTS, ALREADY BAPTISED: Adults who were baptized with water in most denominations are considered to have valid baptisms and are not re-baptized. They view baptism as a one-time deal that cannot be undone (you can excommunicate someone, but you cannot un-baptize). Those who join who wish to make a further public statement of faith take adult education classes and are confirmed.(Note: the Episcopal Church has never taken an official stance on whether or not to recognize LDS baptism, whereas Methodist, Presbyterian, and Catholic churches explicitly require re-baptism).

ADULTS ALREADY BAPTIZED/CONFIRMED IN CATHOLIC/ORTHODOX/(SOME) LUTHERAN CHURCHES: their confirmation is considered valid because it was performed by a bishop in apostolic succession. Like baptism, they do not believe you can be re-confirmed, so your original confirmation is considered valid. Instead, the public affirmation of faith for this group is "reception into the Anglican communion"---the bishop says "we receive you into this communion" rather than stating that you are now confirmed.

NEVER-BAPTIZED ADULTS: study for up to a year in a program known as catechumenate (catechumen is a candidate for baptism). There is never a rush or push to baptize. Normally, baptisms for adults are performed only once a year, on Easter Vigil (Eve). Some parishes allow baptism of adults on other dates such as Pentecost or All Saints Day, but at most only a few times a year. So it's impossible for anyone to rush into baptism. An inquirer who requested baptism less than say a month before Easter would probably be encouraged to take classes and then be baptized next time around.

There is no requirement to be confirmed/received to be a full voting member of an Episcopal parish. However, to serve on Vestry (board of directors, open to both men and women), one must be confirmed in the Episcopal Church. In the case of members holding Catholic/Orthodox/Lutheran confirmations, they are required to be received into the communion as outlined above.

Stumbling
Re: Name any other religious org that presses for baptism ASAP like Moism does?
I believe I am correct in saying that Mormon missionaries are encouraged to 'challenge' people to be baptised during the first lesson with them.

Tabula Rasa
Re: Name any other religious org that presses for baptism ASAP like Moism does?
The Polar Bear Club.

Ron

RAG
Not only rushed but using various manipulative strategies and deceptions
Several examples are here:

http://www.salamandersociety.com/foyer/bogusbaptisms/

ElleBee
Re: Name any other religious org that presses for baptism ASAP like Moism does?
The United Pentecostal Church pushes baptism HARD. They are so dissimilar from other Pentecostal-type denominations in that sense. And the UPC says baptism is necessary for salvation and only baptism in the name of Jesus (rather than Father Son Holy Spirit) qualifies.

My own denomination only baptizes people who specifically request to be baptized. They have to go through an interview first to make sure they understand what baptism means (especially younger candidates) and they have to make a public profession of faith in Jesus Christ. Our denomination does not do infant baptism. It is unusual for children under 10 to be baptized.

I attended my church for almost 10 years before I decided to be baptized at the age of almost 25. Nobody really knew I hadn't been baptized and some were surprised but not in a judgmental way. My husband served as a minister for two years before I was baptized. It's just not something emphasized or required in our faith background, though of course it is considered a positive thing.

Boilermaker
I once attended this church
They had the baptismal font filled and the moment you came up and accepted Jesus you were hauled off to the baptismal font ... and in the New Testament people were baptized immediately after they accepted Jesus as well.

Boilermaker
Whoops! Here's the link to the church
http://www.fbclb.org/front

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"