Fast Mormon Marriages
by jameswilmons Mar 2012
I had a friend during my short stint at BYU who was so desperate to get married she had a new 'target' guy each week. Finally one week she met a guy in her ward. They dated (made out) for three weeks. Then he drove her up to Washington state to meet his parents, at which point he proposed. She said yes, of course. This was THREE WEEKS after meeting!
They got married 2 and a half months later, literally having only known each other for around 100 days or so. After they got married, I heard from a mutual friend that the two had horrible problems because they weren't sexually compatible AT ALL. They had to go to a sexual counselor just to get to a point that they could enjoy sex and have a normal marriage.
Obviously had they had sex before hand they would've figured it out and never gotten married. But more importantly if they had taken more time to get to know each other, they could've figured this out simply by their personalities in a long term relationship.
If people have to go to the bishop and SP to get cleared to get married in the temple, why is it that these bishops aren't offering sound advice about relationships?
I saw too many people at BYU get married because they confused sexual desire with love. Once they got married and the sexual desire was fulfilled they realized they hated the person they were with.
Why aren't leaders offering more advice than "just get married and figure out how to work it out."?
Phantom Shadow
I've wondered if the church offers any kind of marriage preparation these days.
In my day there was no help at all before or after. I did take a family and marriage class during my one semester at BYU. I was so grossed out by the discussion on things that could go wrong during childbirth that I almost didn't want to have children. (A nurse came and talked to us about such delightful things as "having your uterus fall out on the floor." I can't remember which disaster was supposed to cause that.)
Back in our student ward that was mostly young marrieds there were a lot of complaints about how the church just left us ignorant on sexual matters both before and after marriage. DH used to say the church should publish a marriage manual for after the ceremony. That might have seemed like a good idea in theory, but it would probably have contained lots of bad advice about not giving in to your "lusts" and "animal instincts."
jameswilmons
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
Doesn't it seem that the church rushes you into marriage and then thinks you're all set after that?
Mia
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
I have 7 nieces that went to BYU. Everyone of them married the first guy they dated there.
First I would get the news that they had a boyfriend. Then I would be told there would be wedding within 3 months. And there was!
CA girl
You see this all the time
At BYU, I was disturbed by girls who were 19 and 20 and would say that they wanted to marry their boyfriends because if they didn't, they would have wasted a whole semester. I lost all track of how many roommates I had that got engaged after 3-4 weeks of dating - a semester at most - then married during spring break or right when BYU got out in April. To guys they didn't know at the beginning of the year. One roommate had 3 guys on a string at a time - when she called me that summer to tell me she was engaged, I had to as "to which one of them?" Turns out, it was none of them - it was a guy she met at a ward campout 2 weeks earlier (20 years later they got divorced). My friend's daughter a few years ago went through three guys at USU her freshman year and was lamenting she wasn't married like a couple of her friends. That summer she met a guy but at least they dated for the whole school year before he finally proposed. She was only a few weeks over 20 when she finally went to the temple, so happy to FINALLY be married. This isn't back in the 50s or 60s...This was just a few years ago. Another friend's daughter watched her parents practically eviscerate her older brother for marrying a non-member and overreacted in the other direction by getting engaged to an RM, an old family friend, when she was 17. Fortunately in this case, the RM had the common sense to insist they wait until she finished her first year of college to marry. My SIL met a guy at a dance and got engaged 3 weeks later and eloped about 6 weeks after that. She was in her 40s and had 3 children (none of which were at her wedding). He was in his 40s and child protective services had him on restricted visitation with his kids. She knew that when she married him, yet she brought him into the house with her teenager and two elementary aged kids. All that mattered to her was that he claimed to be a good Mormon, was an RM, was active and that she, after years of divorce, would finally have a "real" family.
The problem is that the LDS church teaches that temple marriage is the ultimate goal - not who you marry. In fact, some have taught any two good members can have a happy marriage. So people put a lot of emphasis on WHERE they marry not WHO they marry, figuring if that person is a good Mormon too, they will live happily ever after. And while the church wants marriages that last, they put little or no effort into premarital counselling. You might get a good bishop that goes rogue and tries to help engaged couples but they aren't trained to do that. Once people have their temple marriage and a child or two, they are much more trapped and dependent on the church. The church doesn't want people who think - they want people who obey and are loyal to the church so they place all their emphasis on the temple marriage not the day after.
anon for this
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
I have a lady I work with whose daughter got married quickly. She was dating a great guy, then bam- she was getting married. The weird part was, she wasn't marrying the guy I thought she was dating(her mom bragged about the studly young man) and head over heels for. They broke up, one month later she announced her engagement for a wedding to take place the following month. Announces pregnancy a couple of months later and wouldn't you know it, that baby came a little over a month early. The word 'preamie' was hardly mentioned and this was a fully cooked baby. (lbs, length, ect). Such a great thing for young love to go to the holy temple to seal such a divine relationship. Now the question: Did the kids lie to the parents or did the parents know and needed to keep up the appearance of more holy than everyone else? Knowing her ego - I say mom knew!
caedmon
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
A woman I know slightly runs a very nice reception venue in SLC. Last time I saw her, she told me about a couple that reserved the venue for their reception - the wedding date was about 8 months away. Anyway, the young girl showed up about six months later to finalize the details - but with a different groom!
jameswilmons
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
When I got back from my mission I almost made a terrible mistake wanting to marry a 17-year-old girl. It's now four years later and I've been dating a wonderful nevermo who loves and understands me and even appreciates the fact that I'm an exmo but didn't try to push me when I still was. We've been dating longer than me and that 17-year-old girl ever did. That 17 your girl is now getting married to a guy she's known for less than six months
elaine
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
Three weeks? That's a long time.
When I was just out of high school, living in Southern California and going to church young adult dances, I knew a girl who met a newly returned missionary at a Friday night dance. By the end of the weekend they were engaged. Truth be told, I suspect they were engaged by the end of the dance, but it wasn't announced until the Sunday. They were married less than a month later.
That's fast.
exmowife
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
I still marvel at the pace of mo courtships. Our neighbors are TBM and the oldest daughter went to college (BYU Rexburg?) in the fall of 2010. In May she came home to visit with a beau - she had known him less than three weeks, they were engaged most of that three weeks, and they were married somewhere in Utah late June. Late July they had a reception locally, where she spent most of her childhood, and they left right after that. I do not know if she is still in school, etc. as there is a pronounced avoidance of us on their part. (But we were invited to the reception for some reason.)
Several of DH nephews have married in record times after arriving home from missions. Sadly, some of the rumors getting back to us sound terrible: mismatched personalities, kids right away and new mothers that can't seem to cope, not finishing school as they have to support their new families, pressure from professional In-laws to live their life the way they always dreamt their daughter's husband would... ugh! This is the norm, not exceptions.
It still catches me off guard when an announcement comes in the mail (always the same, photos of the smiling couple with date, time, location, and some sappy, preachy stuff) and the date is weeks out. :(
Mormon Observer
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
Now in the small Mormon Ranch town I lived in; one of the old Pioneer family lines had a 'fast' marriage. this was about 1901
The young lady had been told by her Dad that she was to marry his old friend (same age as her father) and become wife number 3 or 4 on Sunday.
Saturday she went to the dance in St. George and met a nice young man from a nice family. His family was pulling out to go down to the Muddy River and then deeper into Nevada the next morning. She went with him and was married by the wagon companies Bishop. By the time her family knew of it, she was gone and married and going to live a long ways away. The marriage turned out to be a good one and they founded one of the good strong families of the tiny valley they settled in; where they raised "cattle and kids".
Tara the Pagan
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
I knew two couples who got engaged on the first date, and several more who married less than three months after meeting. I don't know if any of them are still together.
It's not just the young ones who marry quickly. Ex-DH met his current wife on the Internet, met with her twice, and proposed on the third meeting (it was a long-distance situation). He moved to her location and they married nine weeks later.
I've also known older single TBM friends, neighbors, and acquaintances who married within weeks of meeting (or, in one online case, courted online and then only met AT the wedding! That one lasted four months). They really believe the "any two members" teaching and are desperate because they don't believe they can be happy alone. Plus, a lot of the older single TBM men are eager to have sex again. (Some of them are looking for younger, fertile "breeders" so they can crank out infants when they're over 45 or 50 -- ugh!).
jameswilmons
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
Isn't the biggest problem that they think they just need to pray about it and that's all? They have all those butterfly/new relationship feelings and they pray about it. After they confuse the butterflies with some sort of answer and they just jump into it.
Surely after those failed marriages they start to doubt TSCC and the whole process right?
anon12345678
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
17 days ... I saw a couple get engaged last year .. 17 days after meeting each other ... who in their right mind does that?
Lethbridge Reprobate
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
That's what i saw at Ricks back in '66....mishies came back in October and there were weddings before Christmas...
Drai
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
I knew several couples who did this. In my Institute class during college, there was a guy who came back from his mission and was engaged to a local girl within a month. They knew NOTHING about each other beforehand, but they got married in the temple two months after getting engaged (it probably would have been sooner, but we're not in the Morridor, so it's harder to get an appointment for a sealing quickly). Anyway, the Institute teacher held them up as some kind of shining example of what returned missionaries should strive for. He actually lectured those of us who wanted to finish college first about how the Lord would not want us to wait, etc. That marriage lasted exactly four months...the bride finally walked out with a bruised body and even more bruised ego. The guy started hitting her right after the honeymoon and it continued to escalate until one of her brothers intervened because of course the bishop and his family refused to acknowlege what was blatantly obvious to everyone in the ward. As stupid as she was to rush into the marriage, I actually did feel sorry for the girl; she had been sold a BS fairy tale story from the time she was a kid and had no idea that marriages could go horribly wrong. And guess what? The abuser married ANOTHER girl the following year, in the temple, with full endorsement from the bishop. Absolutely sickening. I would love to know if they're still married.
jameswilmons
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
That's so sad.
southern
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
I know one woman very closely who married a supposedly upstanding young Mormon guy. She was a faithful sheep and told me about how she believed that if she stayed a virgin, then married an lds guy in the temple etc their lives would be perfect. They barely knew each other, courted for maybe three months.
He hit and kicked her shortly after they were married. When she talked to her counselors at byu about her experiences they basically told her that she should pray harder and stay with him no matter what. Hence began her grand disillusionment. Thankfully she left him. She is now a very emotionally damaged exmo. Out of the cult but still in the frying pan. It's a sad situation to see from an outside perspective.
There seems to be no real guidance about marriage, just "pray and it'll somehow work out." And then of course threats that she will lose her place in the celestial kingdom.. So abusive. The woman and the men are cheated.
Drai
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
I'm not sure if you were referencing my story or not, but if so, yes, it was terribly sad. One of the worst parts, if you ask me, was that neither the bishop nor the Institute teacher did ANYTHING to turn it into a teachable moment. They didn't acknowledge it, didn't offer to help the girl or ask if she was okay when rumors started swirling, nothing. They totally hushed it up, rather than take the opportunity to tell others in the class that hey, even in so-called "godly" marriages, things can go horribly wrong and getting out to preserve your safety and more than likely save your own life is not only the right thing to do, it's also brave. And they didn't tell anyone that if you see something like this going on in your family or with one of your friends, coworkers or neighbors, you should reach out to the person and offer to help because you just might be a literal lifeline. Nah, it was more important to them to keep their mouths shut and hope no one would find out what was going on with this young couple because they'd used them as an example of what everyone else in the age group should strive for and SURELY they couldn't let on that they'd made a mistake. It's really chilling if you think about it.
NormaRae
I hate to admit it
But of all the stupid mormon girls getting married too young and too fast, I was the stupidist one I know.
I went to meet the guy I dated in high school at the airport when he came home from his mission. Couldn't touch that night, he was still a missionary. He got released the next day and we made out until MY balls were blue (figuratively). Don't even ask me how we stayed clothed. I just had a good healthy fear of Hell. A week later we decided to get married. No, he hadn't been home from his mission long enough to have a job, a penny to his name, a car, or anything else, but both sets of our parents were so happy. The next week, he left the state to go try to get a job in the city where he wanted to go to school. I was working for the summer in my hometown and only got to see him for one weekend from the time we got engaged until the time we got married 3 months later. So in the space of 2 years and three months, we'd spent less than a week together and we get married.
Yeah. Like there was any possibility of it working. It was 18 years of hell. Being divorced and having sex on my own terms has, of course, been well worth it.
koolman2
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
Nope. The Lord has a plan. Anything that goes wrong is The Plan®. bah
CA girl
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
One more story - there was a family in our ward who had three very good looking sons - one my age, one two years older and one three years older. The oldest son gets home from his mission and two weeks later, was engaged to a girl he'd met since he got home. The middle son comes home and within a month gets engaged to a girl he knew from our stake - casual friends before the mission, never dated or were even close friends. Third son comes home from his mission and my TBM mom tells me to stay the hell away from him for at least 6 months. Yes, she actually used that language. By now, the family had a reputation. Sure enough, about 3 weeks later he was engaged to a girl he'd met since he got home from his mission. In their defense, all three boys are still married but no idea how happily.
enoughenoch19
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
One of my cousins (female) and were talking about 10 years or so ago at the wedding reception of some other cousin. She said she had just graduated from BYU. Just to be polite I said "Congratulations, what did you major in?" She actually said that it did not matter since she went there to land a husband and that didn't happen. I mentioned that OH WELL she still had a college education. She said she did not need it to have babies. I was in shock. I used to always expect TBMs to act like normal people and when they didn't, I'd be shocked. Not anymore, nothing TBMs do shocks me now.
Eventually, she did get married in the temple (GAG!) and had two babies and is now divorced..........but they will neet again in the hereafter, she and he ex that is.
Stumbling
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
Statistically the Church loses fewer members from Married Couples than from Single Adults.
The push for people to get married is a simple drive to retain members. It has nothing to do with helping individuals have happy marriages.
jameswilmons
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
What a crazy concept. Just get married and don't worry about the consequences. Worse is the fact that the bishops and sp's of the world endorse it! Completely irresponsible.
xombie
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
Sister-in-law in same boat. My wife and I met online 7 years ago. I flew back to Utah to meet her and met the family. My was was already falling away, her two older sisters already gone before her so I didn't have to talk reason to her. The youngest, however, was an egomaniac with that lovely holier-than-thou attitude that we all have come to know. I did not like her when I first met her and to this day I still don't have very fond feelings towards her. My wife and I had been talking and courting for about 4 months time before we eventually met in person so by this time, little miss Molly was getting antsy because she didn't want to be the only one who was single. Lo and behold the weekend before I flew out there she finds a guy at the huge conference dance they hold at UVSC/UVU. She had to make it a point to bring him the next weekend when I was there to show him off. Not 2 weeks later they were engaged, he having had to borrow money from his parents to buy her engagement ring. Oh but they apparently were out ring shopping within the first week. SMH. Anyway, my would be wife and I continued to date/talk and within 3 months of her little sister meeting this guy, they're married. My wife left Utah immediately after the wedding. She and I got engaged about 6 months later and spent the next 3 years being engaged and enjoying each other's company and finally end up marrying after 4 years of technically getting to know each other in and out. Needless to say, we were able to have everything planned and coordinated before we got married. The little sis however is living in the in-law's basement with their TWO little kids, dear hubby struggling with a crappy job and trying to get his degree in god knows what... he's on the 10 year program I think...
Mormon culture... holy crap... so retarded.
princessbelieve
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
My Mom and Dad knew each other for 10 days before they got married! My mom hated him the whole marriage I'm pretty sure, It took her 27 years to get out. I saw my parents kiss 3 times my entire life, I knew my mom didn't love him. It was never good, she ust needed out of hte house. They are now both remarried... same story the second time areound... whatever...
Makurosu
I got married for the wrong reasons, and we had known each other for years.
My ex-wife and I were friends who dated occasionally for two years before we were engaged. Then it was eight months after that before we married, and the marriage was still a disaster. I would not have married her if I didn't have this sense of urgency about leaving BYU without having found a wife, and she has said the same thing. I think the Mormon church sets people up for failure no matter what the time frame, though obviously it would probably be better if people got to know each other a little first.
While we were dating, we introduced our friends to each other who were engaged two weeks after meeting and were married two months after that -- even before we got married. This couple is still together after about 20 years. I don't know what to say. They weigh about 500 pounds now combined though and still in the Church.
MercyMe
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
My niece has joined the BYU "Fast Mormon Marriages" dilemna!
Guy #1, just weeks ago, she was hanging all over. Then guy #2 came into the picture. And within weeks guy #2 has cherry coated everything from marriage, college, and the future.
How? Well, his mommy and daddy are going to take care of everything. His family is well-off and they are going to pay for everything. They've promised to pay for his college(one of them has to put off college due to the BYU rules), they'll help him pay for a place to live, they'll help him work for their company, they've set it up so he doesn't have to leave home at all. Just bring the girl home and live happy-ever-after.
My sister has made it perfectly clear she will not support this wedding. She will not pay for it, accept it, or indulge them in their fantasy.
My niece thinks she's in love but what she's not seeing is behind the curtain:
They are disrespecting and not honoring her parent's wishes in any way shape or form.
The church is encouraging this behavior though the two have gone for counseling because they've only known each other for a few weeks.
He's separated her from her family and friends. Leaving weeks between calls and emails.So the only advise she is getting is all from him. Making him and his family look like her saviors. Like they are supporting them when no one else is.
His parent's are disrespecting her parent's wishes too.
Why can she not see that this is a preview of the future?
She will feel indebted to his family. And every decision they make they will have final word because he will not want toto their disappoint them. From the wedding, to children, to their home, to their cars, etc.
She's jumped in this sooooo blindly. She won't even stand up to him when he's around her family. Instead she stands by while he tries to sell his story to my sister.
This has now created friction between mother and daughter. My sister is frightened that their relationship will be changed forever. And not in the right ways.
My sister is LDS but her faith is being soooo challenged here. Her daughter has fallen into the ultimate BYU trap.
How can she convince her daughter that this is not the right decision?
HELP
*MercyMe*
mothermayeye
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
The theme of my nieces and nephews. For example: niece got married a few months ago after a very short courtship and she HATES sex!! My nephew just got back from mission in January and is getting married in May cuz im sure he can't wait to get laid. As for TSCC stand on sex... keep it boring!
romy
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
This phenomanon is one of the cultural issues I've always had with tssc even when I was young and TBM and having temple marriage as a #1 priority in life shoved down my throat weekly at church.
I was always confused about how people who are not just getting married but believe they are getting married in a much more severe way for ETERNITY could rush into something so quick. I never liked the sometimes plainly stated and sometimes cultural pressure and constant reminders about hurrying up and getting married. This was one of several reasons I had NO desire to go to a church school.
I could never grasp being horny being enough of a reason to rush into something so major and I wish more mormon families would call their kids on it when they announce their engagement after no time at all of dating. Sex is really the only reason I think mormons rush marriages, nothing else about the relationship changes as far as I can see from getting married. Man, people get mad too when you ever so politely suggest they are marrying someone they don't know so well. "we were together almost EVERY DAY for those 6 weeks we dated!!! We totally knew all about each other!"
It is such a shame these people won't just masturbate and take their time picking the right partner.
As far as your sister, if I was her I would tell her to pass along that if it is right and they are meant to be together they will still be meant to be together after dating for a while, so what is the rush? Basically call her out that the motivation for this rushed marriage is sex and that that is stupid.
I guess my feelings on this is why I am a 28 year old virgin, but I just couldn't let something that will eventually fade in a relationship, like sex, rule my decisions/life.
romy
Re: Fast Mormon Marriages
I guess it does seem rich though that I viewed myself as this critical thinker on the subject of quick marriages but didn't critically think plenty of other things about tssc until the past few months.
Lucky
"WHY ?" did you ask why ?
QUOTE:
> If people have to go to the bishop and SP to get cleared to get
> married in the temple, why is it that these bishops aren't
> offering sound advice about relationships?
I will tell you why! because stupid ass MORmON leader shi t ONLY has pat MORmON CRAP / LDS BS to offer as relationship *advice*.
The run of the mill beauty salon worker has a better knowledge of how the space shuttle works, than what stupid ass MORmON leader shi t has in the way of real working advice on relationships as it comes through the MORmON filter....
unless you consider a real solution/ advice having a person just jam their head up their ass and just going for it as it appears it OK to get the secret MORmON handshakes and marry because they are paid up on their tithing and look to stay that way, and having MORmON Jesus (Inc) as the ever present major third wheel in their CRAPPY MORmON based relationship.
That is WHY MORmON leaders are not giving any (QUALIFIED) advice. they dont have any!
saviorself
Your niece and sister both should read this book
http://www.amazon.com/Are-You-One-Me-Avoiding/dp/0440506700/ref=sr_1_1?s...
This book is highly valuable for a naive person who is contemplating a quick marriage to someone she hardly knows. Of course it may not help if your niece won't take the time to read the book and think about her situation.
Following is a website where the book can be purchased USED for a lower price. When buying at this place it may take up to two weeks to receive the book. So if you want to get the book quickly then Amazon is a better choice.
http://product.half.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ342139235070QQtgZvidetailsQQprZ14...
"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"