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Posted by: doubleb ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 01:00PM

Lost Mystic had a great posting about his 7 yr old figuring out that there's no Santa. ( http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,507931 ) Sparked my thoughts on a Santa question I've never been able to answer:

Why do we teach our kids about Santa? Big fat guy in red brings us presents. It's all BS, yet we perpetuate it. Why?

And the logical follow-up: Same with Jesus. Bearded guy in white robe saves us from sin. Also BS, yet we perpetuate it. How come?

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Posted by: Raptor Jesus ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 01:02PM


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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 01:06PM

If presents Don't appear, it wasn't the fault of parents/relatives.

Santa 'knows' things about the children's behavior that parents may not have seen/heard.

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Posted by: The Oncoming Storm - bc ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 01:16PM

I'm wondering if you have summoned Steve Benson. He posts a lengthy series of posts at Christmas time about why he believes telling your kids about Santa is a horrible idea.

Here's my take on why my wife & I did it with our kids and how me approached it (our youngest believes so we are done).

1) We never ever used Santa as a threat that if you aren't good enough you won't get presents. It was always about Santa loves kids.

2) We never ever went to any theatrics to make Santa look real. We did let our son put his reindeer food out he made at school and picked it up that night. However we never did anything to make the Santa myth seem plausible other than say go to bed so Santa can come at such.

3) Once our kids asked we gave them an honest answer. He didn't try to talk them into it - consequently most of our kids had it figured out by about age 6.

4) When they figured it out we explained it was a fun game we played and briefly explained that Santa is a symbol of our unconditional love for them (at a level a 6 year old understand.)

With this approach we felt it was a good fun healthy make believe game that let's them experience the current culture of Santa with their friends and feel some of the magically excitement of Christmas.

Others have different thoughts and approaches, but we are both pretty happy with what we decided on for our kids.

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Posted by: judyblue ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 01:19PM

It's just a cultural myth. There's nothing wrong with these kinds of stories, IMHO. Every culture has an abundance of these myths - fairy tales, urban legends, tall tales like Paul Bunyan and Johnny Appleseed. Sometimes, like with Santa, these myths are morality tales, designed to encourage good behavior.

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Posted by: badseed ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 01:23PM

What she said below. Religion is just a bigger, more inclusive, and longer lasting package.

Santa usually vaporizes by age 10 and leaves far fewer scars


judyblue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> these myths are morality tales, designed to
> encourage good behavior.

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Posted by: badseed ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 01:26PM

Lump o coal, big deal.

The older versions especially in Europe were far more scary. In Holland Santa was known to beat a child with a switch, kick or in serious cases kidnap— if I'm not mistaken.

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 01:39PM

I see no problem whether Santa is real because all little kids figure it out as they get older. Hopefully not by some older sibling, and definitely not by the Preacher who stands in front of the congregation and makes all the little kids cry, claiming it is for their own good.

The real issues arise when people threaten kids with no presents for not believing in Santa. At this point the kid knows that the parents are the gift-givers, but he is forced to go along with what is now a charade.

When I was growing up and got old enough to stop believing, the only thing that happened was that my mom told me to please not ruin Christmas for my younger brothers and sisters.

In our family we let the kids decide for themselves with the understanding that they do not spoil it for the young'uns. Certainly it is better to let them figure it out and acknowledge their newfound reality while offering support for the discomfort it might cause. As many of us exmormons know, discovering certain truths can be difficult to handle.

The difference I see between believing in Santa and believing in God is that the parents know there is no Santa but them. They buy the presents.
On the other hand, my one son has said that probably does not believe in God. What can I do? I can't prove him or myself right or wrong, nor can I assert any pressure to believe something he does not find easy to believe. The only thing I can do is tell him what I believe and why, but he has to discover either way for himself.

So what I'm getting at is that while the kids are old enough to know that Santa is also mom and dad, we still talk about Santa at Christmas time because it is just part of the holiday tradition. If the kids openly state that Santa is baloney, that is fine, but it's only for a month or less that flying reindeer really matter anyway. Why bother to assert a mutually dismissed idea? And then again, why ruin the fun?

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 05:52PM


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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 02:21PM

Children with good imatinations who like having imaginary friends are usually more creative and healthier emotionally for the experience.

I know what I'm talking about on this subject.

It's a good idea to look to the child and play along but don't push it to the extreme or use it as a club over their heads.

Trying to force kids to use adult logic before they're ready drives a wedge in the relationship. Santa is pretend and kids can't learn the difference between real and make believe unless and until they're about age seven and have had many both real and immaginary experences to compare and contrast.

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Posted by: labdork ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 02:22PM

I asked a similar question a few months ago and got some good discussion...

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,389202,389202#msg-389202

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Posted by: jacob ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 03:15PM

There is nothing like raising my children in the same dysfunctional way I was raised.

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 03:23PM

Don't look at me, I never taught santa to anyone.

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Posted by: CateS ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 03:54PM

That's why they're convinced that there's a monster in the closet among other imaginary beliefs they hold. They can't actually tell the difference between reality and fantasy. By the time they get to be 8 or 10 their brains are developed enought they don't need that stuff.

I say if Santa and the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny are positive imaginary creations, why not encourage it at that age? At least they have something positive to counter all the goblins and witches and bogeymen.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 05:18PM

Children need that kind of playtime to work out ideas they're too small to explore any other way. It's good healthy and necessary to their development and they do it with or without their parent's cooperation. Parents who try to curb childish imaginary exploration are working against the best interests of normal child brain, language, and emotional development. It would be like forcing them to walk before they crawl or read before they talk.

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Posted by: zomamom ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 07:41PM

Kids can be very imaginative on their own without parents giving them false ideas to imagine. The problem is also that Santa is not normally introduced as pretend, but real. My daughter(3) is very imaginative, which I encourage. The difference is she creates it herself, not me.

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Posted by: zomamom ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 10:06PM

I am still learning how posting works on this site, so I am making an assumption you were replying to my post(correct me if I am wrong), where did you read me saying I don't play along with her imagining? That's actually exactly what I said I do. I don't believe in perpetuating a myth which now in modern times seem to correlate to which kids get the best/most expensive gift to the idea of it being a reward for "being good". Which if you cant or don't want to do that sends a message to kids which I don't agree with. I hope I have cleared up my stance on this. I have no issue with imaginitive play and completely understand the importance of it.

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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 07:20PM

OK for SB....how about we take Santa and ALL imaginary fantasy's thoughts,imagery and ideas and not let children imagine anything...would that be best?

Is that the kind of world you would like SB?
just askin~

EDITED TO AWNSWER THE POST BELOW!

...I could not be more on point Steve...why not just answer the question?

MY "PROPHESY IS YOU WONT!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 07:39PM by bignevermo.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 07:22PM


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 07:37PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 07:37PM

in People magazine...hey i know..it aint a scientific periiodical...Does It Damage Children to Deceive Them About Santa Claus? Ho, Ho, No, Says Dr. Carl Anderson

Dr. Carl Anderson, 34, is a man uniquely qualified to answer such worries. A blond, bearded therapist with bright blue eyes and rosy round cheeks, Anderson answered a shopping mall management company's ad that read: "Wanted: Eyes—twinkle. Dimples—merry. Cheeks—rosy. Beard—snow." Since then, he estimates that he has bounced some 15,000 kids on his knee. The experience inspired his dissertation, "On Discovering the Truth: Children's Reactions to the Reality of the Santa Claus Myth," which earned him a Ph.D. in counseling psychology from the University of Texas.


We asked the kids why they think they're taught to believe in Santa. Very few [8 percent] said it was so they'd be good. Exactly half felt that it was so they could enjoy themselves at Christmas, and they thought it was an important tradition to pass on from generation to generation. One called Santa "the mascot for Christmas." An 11-year-old boy gave a serious explanation that parents could certainly understand. He wrote, "Maybe because the world we live in is so bad...we have people killing people, people take hostages...all kinds of accidents are happening all over the world, that Chernobyl thing and all that stuff...so Santa is a nice thing in a cruel world."

just sayin!! :)

OOPS/....edited for link:http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20097872,00.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 07:40PM by bignevermo.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 07:44PM

St. Nick's negative profile and its impact on the minds of young kids:

" . . . [A] few definitions"

"'Perpetuate': cause to continue or prevail; 'perpetuate a myth'

"'Myth': a person or thing having only an imaginary or unverifiable existence

"'Santa Claus': an imaginary being who is thought to bring presents to children at Christmas

"'Bad': having negative qualities or effects

"This debate will be based on logic and reason, so no sources are necessary unless there is any statistical information or actual situation presented.

"Arguments

"1. Santa Claus is Irrational.

"For a start his supposed activities would break all the rules of physics - how could anyone fly around the world with magical reindeer in just one night visiting every child? How would his sleigh stay up in the air? And how could he get into so many bedrooms - most people nowadays don't have chimneys to come down, and he wouldn't't fit down one even if they did? Santa certainly seems like a robber through his extremely sneaky ways even if he does "give presents." And do we have any proof for the existence of elves, or of reindeer? Secondly, if Santa existed don't you think that someone would have seen him delivering the presents, at least once? How would a parent answer these questions? They can't because Santa is so ridiculous! The theory of Santa is so unrealistic that children will be confused what actual reality and logic is.


"2. Santa Is an Evil Person.

"Santa is a class oppressor--for he always seems to give the most and best presents to children in the richest families while those who are poor get little or nothing. A single person can be enlisted as naughty or nice, good or bad, based on a few acts. You can't judge a person based on a few observations. And he has been enlisted as a bogeyman in the fight to make children do what their parents want. All those, 'You better watch out, you better not cry, you better not shout… I'm telling you why' threats that bad children won't be visited by Santa are just designed to scare children and keep them under control. Parents control their kids by creating an imaginary 'powerful' stranger. Such a figure is not worthy of our belief.


"3. Children Will Be Disillusioned.

"We should have a strict regard for the truth, and see the world as it is regardless of the consequences. Our children deserve to be told the truth about Santa Claus, as well as about the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy and the possibility of fairies at the bottom of the garden. If they start off believing in these things, one day they will become disillusioned and maybe psychologically scarred for life by the experience. And once parents start to lie to their children about Santa Claus then other dishonesty and mistrust can all too easily follow.


"4. Santa Stunts Intellectual Maturity.

"The priority of believing in the face of evidence or reasoning which contradicts that belief, promotes a model of learning based on authority and accepting irrational concepts, discouraging healthy skepticism. Questions about Santa's existence are likely to be dismissed as opportunities to exercise critical thinking only to be replaced with 'magical thinking' that forms a poor substitute for sound reasoning. They may learn that false arguments work as a substitute for logic. Indeed, the child will learn eventually that Santa Claus is false, but that knowledge may likely come through admission rather than logical deduction. Participation in this deception teaches children that dishonesty at the expense of those who are gullible, like younger children, can be amusing and fun. It may also teach them that we should believe in ideas that are rewarding with the hopes that they are true, rather than believing in them for actually being true. This denounces true, logical thinking.
_____


"Santa Claus is an illogical, irrational myth that promotes poor logic and is a lie that parents tell their children. Children will also be unsafe and insecure once they learn the truth about Santa's existence and wonder why their parents would lie to them so.

"For these reasons, perpetuating the myth of Santa Claus to children is bad."

("Perpetuating the myth of Santa Claus is bad for children." posted by "XStrikeX," at: http://www.debate.org/debates/Perpetuating-the-myth-of-Santa-Claus-to-children-is-bad/1/)
_____



"'Santa Claus: Should Parents Perpetuate the Santa Claus Myth?'

"--Problems with the Santa Claus Myth:

"Although Santa Claus was originally based upon the Christian figure of Saint Nicholas, a patron saint of children, today Santa Claus is wholly secular. Some Christians object to him because he is secular rather than Christian; some non-Christians object to him because of his Christian roots. He is a powerful cultural symbol which is impossible to ignore, but this doesn’t mean that he should simply be accepted without question. There are good reasons to dispense with the tradition.


"--Parents Have to Lie About Santa Claus:

Perhaps the most serious objection to perpetuating belief in Santa Claus among children is also the simplest: in order to do so, parents have to lie to their children. You can’t encourage the belief without dishonesty, and it’s not a “little white lie” that is for their own good or that might protect them from harm. Parents should not persistently lie to children without overwhelmingly good reasons, so this puts supporters of the Santa Claus myth on the defensive.
_____


"--Parents’ Lies About Santa Claus Have to Grow:

"In order to get kids to believe in Santa Claus, it’s not enough to commit a couple of simple lies and move on. As with any lie, it’s necessary to construct more and more elaborate lies and defenses as time passes. Skeptical questions about Santa must be met with detailed lies about Santa’s powers. “Evidence” of Santa Claus must be created once mere stories of Santa prove insufficient. It’s unethical for parents to perpetuate elaborate deceptions on children unless it’s for a greater good.
_____


"--Santa Claus Lies Discourage Healthy Skepticism:

Most children eventually become skeptical about Santa Claus and ask questions about him, for example how he could possibly travel around the whole world in such a short period of time. Instead of encouraging this skepticism and helping children come to a reasonable conclusion about whether Santa Claus is even possible, much less real, most parents discourage skepticism by telling tales about Santa’s supernatural powers.
_____


"--The Reward & Punishment System of Santa Claus is Unjust:

"There are a number of aspects to the whole Santa Claus “system” which children shouldn’t learn to internalize. It implies that the whole person can be judged as naughty or nice based upon a few acts. It requires belief that someone is constantly watching you, no matter what you are doing. It is based upon the premise that one should do good for the sake of reward and avoid doing wrong out of fear of punishment. It allows parents to try to control children via a powerful stranger.
_____


"--The Santa Claus Myth Promotes Materialism:

"The entire Santa Claus myth is based on the idea of children getting gifts. There’s nothing wrong with getting gifts, but Santa Claus makes it the focus on the entire holiday. Children are encouraged to conform their behavior to parental expectation in order to receive ever more presents rather than simply lumps of coal. In order to make Christmas lists, kids pay close attention to what advertisers tell them they should want, effectively encouraging unbridled consumerism.
_____


"--Santa Claus is Too Similar to Jesus and God:

"The parallels between Santa Claus and Jesus or God are numerous. Santa Claus is a nearly all-powerful, supernatural person who dispenses rewards and punishment to people all over the world based upon whether they adhere to a pre-defined code of conduct. His existence is implausible or impossible, but faith is expected if one is to receive the rewards. Believers should regard this as blasphemous; non-believers shouldn’t want their kids prepared in this way to adopt Christianity or theism.
_____+


"--The Santa Claus “Tradition” is Relatively Recent:

"Some might think that because Santa Claus is such an old tradition, this alone is sufficient reason to continue it. They were taught to believe in Santa as children, so why not pass this along to their own? The role of Santa Claus in Christmas celebration is actually quite recent — the mid to late 19th century. The importance of Santa Claus is a creation of cultural elites and perpetuated by business interests and simple cultural momentum. It has little to no inherent value.
_____


"--Santa Claus is More About Parents than Children:

"Parental investment in Santa Claus is far larger than anything kids do, suggesting that parents’ defense of the Santa Claus myth is more about what they want than about what kids want. Their own memories about enjoying Santa may be heavily influenced by cultural assumptions about what they should have experienced. Is it not possible that kids would find at least as much pleasure in knowing that parents are responsible for Christmas, not a supernatural stranger?
_____


"--The Future of Santa Claus:

"Santa Claus symbolizes Christmas and perhaps the entire winter holiday season like nothing else. An argument can be made for the importance of the Christmas tree as a symbol for Christmas (notice that there are no Christian images which come close), but Santa Claus personifies Christmas in a way that trees cannot. Santa Claus is, furthermore, a very secular character by now which allows him to cross cultural and religious lines, placing him in an important position for the entire season rather than for Christmas alone.

"Because of this, it’s plausible that giving up on Santa Claus will mean abandoning much of the Christmas holidays altogether — and perhaps that’s not such a bad thing. There’s a lot to be said for Christians dismissing the consumerist, commercialized Christmas of America and focusing instead on the Nativity of Jesus. Ignoring Santa Claus would symbolize this choice. There’s a lot to be said for adherents of other religions refusing to allow Santa Claus to become part of their own traditions, representing an intrusion of Western culture into their own.

"Finally, there’s also a lot to be said for non-believers of various sorts--humanists, atheists, skeptics, and freethinkers-- refusing to be co-opted into a religious observance. Whether Santa Claus in particular or Christmas in general is treated as defined by Christian or pagan religious traditions, neither are religions which nonbelievers are part of. Christmas and Santa Claus have strong secular elements, but those are primarily commercial — and who is going to invest themselves in a holidayall about commerce and who can spend the most money on credit?

"The future of Santa Claus will depend on whether people will care enough to do anything--if not, things will continue on the same course they have been on. If people care not to be taken over, borg-like, by America’s Christmas, resistance may reduce Santa’s status as a cultural icon."

("Santa Claus: Should Parents Perpetuate the Santa Claus Myth?," by Austin Cline, at: http://atheism.about.com/od/christmasholidayseason/p/SantaMyth.htm)
_____


RfM poster "AngelCowgirl" offers a suitable non-presnent wrap-up:

"As a kid, I was so creeped out by Santa... and the similarity to TSCC.

"When I was young, I was molested by a relative. So when I heard garbage about Santa like "he sees you when you're sleeping..." and was told stories about a guy sneaking into my house late at night, I was completely beyond freaked out. I would have nightmares and wake up screaming. I absolutely hated Christmas.

"To this day, I am still sickened when I see parents FORCE their crying kids to sit on a costumed stranger's lap so they can take a picture. We tell our kids to not talk to strangers, not take candy from strangers, and then we chew them out when they won't take the stranger's proffered candy cane? And when the poor kid wails, "I don't want to!" the parents wrestles them onto the guy's lap anyway, ignoring the child's tears and vocalizations of discomfort.

"Ugh.

"And the TSCC is similar in many ways-- there's a big SkyDaddy watching you, and he's gonna make you a big burning lump of coal in hell if you're naughty! (And hey, God has flying angels instead of reindeer...)

"And the children are forced to go into closed offices with grown men to be 'interviewed' about how naughty they are... even if the poor kids don't want to, they are generally forced to do so.

"Ewwwww!"

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,362963,362963#msg-362963


OK, while we're at it, this bad flashbaock of Santa, from RfM poster "catnip":

"'Santa Anxiety Syndrome'

"I can remember once, when I was about 4, standing in line to talk to 'Santa.' I heard him ask each kid 'Have you been good this year?" Nervously, I turned to my mother and whispered "Have I been good this year?'

"She replied, with a snicker, 'Only when you're asleep.'

"Not long before that, an elderly family member had passed away, and my father had driven to the city where her funeral was held. I had never seen a dead person and asked my father what this relative had looked like now that she was dead. He told me, 'She just looked like she was asleep.'

"So in my confused little mind, I equated death with sleep, came to the rapid conclusion that my mother would be happier if I were dead, because only then would I be "good."

"I burst into tears, pulled loose from my mother's hand, broke out of the Santa line, and ran, sobbing, back to our car. I was too little and too inarticulate to explain why I didn't want anything to do with Santa. All the way back home, my mother berated me for being both bad and ungrateful.

"But she never tried to make me talk to Santa again.

"It took me a long time to work through the implications of being 'good,' 'asleep,' and 'dead.'"

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,362963,363688#msg-363688

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 07:45PM

My parents and teachers occasionally used the "Santa won't come if you aren't good" but it was never overdone (it can be, I am sure) but I always knew Santa would indeed come and it was not a cause for worry.My view was 'Yeah right, you just want me to do X, Maybe Santa won't visit kids who do really awful stuff, but that isn't me'. My memories of Santa are good and fun and I did nt feel as my parents had been dishonest.This is in response to Bignevermo and the article he cited.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 07:48PM by bona dea.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 07:50PM

Praise Be to Santa!

It’s that time of year, when millions celebrate the “miracle” of Christmas.

‘Tis the season, as author Tom Flynn notes in his book, "The Trouble With Christmas," to focus on the object most worthy of our collective worship:

"John Lennon once said that the Beatles were bigger than Jesus Christ. He was wrong. That honor belongs to Santa Claus. An estimated 85 percent of American four-year-olds believe in Santa. Only 82 percent of adults in a recent poll told Gallup that they were Christians. Among their respective target audiences, Santa outpulls Jesus by a nose."

(Tom Flynn, "The Trouble With Christmas" (Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books, 1993, p. 128)
_____


St. Nick and Salvation: “Is Santa Claus a Mormon?”

One Christmas season, when my oldest daughter was around eight and still a “believer” in the myth of the Jolly Old Elf, she innocently asked me, “Is Santa Claus a Mormon?”

Uneasily, I tried avoiding answering her question, but it was clear that our daughter was viewing Santa Claus as a member of God’s true church. Even for someone like myself who back then was still mired in the Mormon faith, I hoped to encourage a wider, more ecumenical world view when it came to judging the world's little boys and girls.
_____


Traditions of Mormon Hearth and Ho-Ho-Home

Like many of you, growing up, our family enjoyed favorite Christmas traditions, especially ones geared toward the children.

By far, the most anticipated event was the arrival of Santa Claus at the Benson house on Christmas Eve. Milk and cookies were set out for St. Nick, along with carrots for the reindeer. (The next morning, the children would find the food all gone with a thank-you note left behind by a contented Santa).

The highlight of Christmas Eve was when the children gathered around the family piano, as Mom played and Dad led us in an enthusiastic rendition of “Jingle Bells.” It was our signal for Santa to make his presence known in the neighborhood.. As the children reached the chorus, suddenly Santa’s sleigh bells would be heard ringing around the perimeter of the house, accompanied by a deep, “Ho! Ho! Ho!” The children would scream and rush off to bed, where they would dive under the covers and squeeze their eyes tightly shut, knowing that Santa would not come by the home of good little boys and girls until they were all sound asleep.

But getting to slumberland often proved difficult for the children. The conniving grown-ups made it all the more challenging for them with more delightful deceptions. Out in the dark backyard, a flashlight covered in a red sock could be seen bounding across the lawn. “Look!” the adults would cry, pointing out to the children, “It’s Rudolph’s nose!”

These traditions were passed from generation to generation in our household. As the Benson children grew older and came to know the real “truth” about Santa, they, too, were brought into the secret fraternity and would participate in the elaborate ruse geared for their younger siblings who still believed. Those “in the know” would ring the bells outside the house and then sneak back inside to help shepherd the anxious little ones off to bed.

As part of the antics myself, I would dress up in a Santa suit and climb up on our roof, where my younger siblings could hear me clomping around and shouting, “On Dasher! On Dancer! On Prancer and Vixen!” One year, I nearly fell off.

Another year, the holiday hoaxing came close to being embarrassingly exposed. At the time, our family was living in the mission home in Ft. Wayne, Indiana, where my dad was serving as president.

The home had a large garage connected to the main living quarters by an outdoor walkway. Over the garage was a small apartment for the mission home staff.

On Christmas Eve, I was decked out in my Santa suit, holding a large garbage bag over my shoulder filled with pillows and standing on the walkway, giving my best belly laugh performance.

Peering out of the window across the way was my wide-eyed little brother, Mike. As I strutted around, bellowing and waving, the door of the mission home staff’s apartment opened behind me. The staff hadn’t been informed beforehand about the planned Santa act. Before I could say, “Dash away all!” one of the missionaries grabbed me, yelled, “Get in here, you honker!,” then jerked me inside. I struggled to break free, frantically telling them they were ruining the whole thing.

Mike later asked why the missionaries pulled Santa inside and slammed the door. I told him Santa wanted to meet with them.

Miracle of miracles, Mike still faithfully believed.

Our hokey, hallowed Santa tradition continued, raising my own children.

After the Christmas caroling around the piano, the bell-ringing and the scampering off to bed, I would wait until the wee hours of Christmas morning, then don the red suit, strap on the beard, adjust the cap and visit the bedrooms of each our slumbering children. There, I would pat them on the head, whisper their names until they woke up, give them a candy cane and ask them what they wanted for Christmas. All the while, photographs were being taken of the grumpy, bleary-eyed children who, at that point in the middle of the night, wanted nothing more than to go back to sleep.
_____


Personal Childhood Trauma: The Santa Myth Unmasked and Unbearded

As fun as it was for me as a Santa-believing child anticipating the arrival of the jolly old gift giver, finding out that St. Nick was nothing but a myth (a polite term for bald-faced lie) was a seriously disappointing—and sobering—experience.

Perhaps it raises a more important question: How beneficial is it to children to push the Santa Claus fable on them in the first place?

For years, I was one of Santa’s true believers. I “knew” he was real, lived at the North Pole, had many elves who made toys in his workshop, kept track of all the good and bad boys and girls, and flew through the air circumventing the globe on Christmas Eve, pulled by magic reindeer, to deliver toys or coal to all the deserving recipients.

I knew this was true because my parents told me it was.

And parents don’t lie.

Trouble was, I had a next-door neighbor friend named Clark, who claimed to know otherwise.

One day he informed me that Santa Claus was a fake. With vivid memories of my family’s Christmas Eve antics dancing through my head, I absolutely refused to believe him.

“Feel his beard when you sit on his lap,” Clark advised me. “It’s fake.”

So, when we visited Santa that year at the department store, I waited anxiously in line for my turn, dreading what I might discover. Sitting on Santa’s knee, I was hardly listening to him as he asked me what I wanted for Christmas, concentrating instead on gingerly twisting a bit of his beard between my fingers. But having never felt a beard before, I couldn’t tell whether or not it was real and returned home, troubled and unsure.

From there, the cold icicles of doubt began to creep into my mind: Was Santa really real? I wanted so much to believe, but my eyes were, well, beginning to be opened.

One Christmas morning in Salt Lake City, as we were unwrapping our presents around the tree, I noticed something rather perplexing about the big box in which my much-anticipated dinosaur set had come.

It sported a retail price tag from Skaggs department store. I asked my dad why this was so.

“Aren’t the toys made in Santa’s workshop?”

He replied, “They are, but then Santa’s elves take them to the stores.”

My eyes were beginning to open even wider.

The final, devastating moment of truth came during my eighth year. By believer’s standards, I was old. Most of my friends no longer bought the Santa story, but I had struggled desperately to hold on, wanting to believe that all I had heard and seen through my life really was true.

One day, I was walking through the kitchen and spotted a small paperback book on the kitchen table. It had a picture of a boy and girl on the cover, running and smiling. Authored by Frances L. Ilg and Louse Bates Ames, it was entitled, "The Gesell Institute’s Child Behavior: A Realistic Guide to Child Behavior in the Vital Formative Fears from Birth to Ten" (New York, New York: Dell Publishing Company, Inc., 1955).

I have saved that fragile and tattered book as part of my childhood collection of artifacts chronicling my journey through this veil of tears. What its now-yellowed pages revealed to me that fateful day was to prove to be of some importance in the formation of my skeptical attitude toward authoritative claims made by others.

As a child, I liked to read, so I went to my room with the book and opened it to the table of contents. There, under Chapter 17, in capital letters, were the words: “WHAT TO TELL ABOUT SANTA CLAUS, DEITY, DEATH, ADOPTION, DIVORCE,” p. 323.

Nervously, I opened to page 323 and under the sub-heading “Santa Claus,” scanned the words I had feared:

”There really isn’t a Santa Claus, is there, Mummy?” Six-year-old Peter regarded his mother searchingly.

Mother hesitated for a moment. She had known that this day would come--but still--questions about Santa, like questions about sex, often pop up when we’re not quite prepared for them. She decided to tell the truth.

“No, Peter, there really isn’t any Santa Claus.”

I closed the book, as a twinge of anxiety and sense of betrayal hit my stomach.

Now, I knew I had to ask the same question.

So, I returned to the kitchen, where my own mother was preparing a meal.

“Mommy,” I asked, “Is there a Santa Claus?”

“Yes,” she replied.

But recalling what I had just read on page 323 and unable to suppress my own doubts any longer, I persisted: “I mean the big fat man with the beard.”

My mom hesitated, then, without looking directly at me, said, “No. Daddy is Santa Claus.”

With emotions of disappointment mingled with a triumphal sense of “ah-ha!,” I replied:

“I know. I read it in a book.”

That day, at the ripe old age of eight, I learned a vital lesson:

You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

As I look back on that experience, I realize that losing faith in both “the big fat man with the beard” and in adults who vouched for his existence played a pivotal role in the development in my own mind of a certain degree of skepticism and distrust of authority figures--ranging from Mormon prophets, to parents, to God himself.
_____


In Sacred Silliness: St. Nick’s Bag of Technicolor Tricks

Of course, reason, knowledge, observation and experience inform us that Santa isn’t--and can’t be--real.

Even when the truth of Santa’s non-existence was confirmed to me as a child, I thought to myself, how could it be otherwise? After all, looking at the facts, anyone could see that Santa’s an imposter.

Take, for example, the staggering task of gift-delivering facing St. Nick each Christmas Eve.

According to "Spy" magazine:

"--Excluding non-Christians and bad children, Santa must visit 91.8 million homes within the 31 hours of Christmas Eve darkness afforded by the Earth’s rotation.

"--He must travel at least 72,522,000 miles, not counting ocean crossings.

-"-Given his 31-hour deadline, he must maintain a speed of 650 miles a second.

"--Assuming two pounds of presents a child, his sleigh must carry a load of 321,300 tons, plus a hefty Santa.

"--The massive sleigh requires 213,200 reindeer to pull it, increasing the total Santa payload to 353,430 tons.

"--The 353,430 tons of reindeer and presents traveling at 650 miles a second would create massive heat and air resistance, with the two lead reindeer absorbing 14.3 quintillion joules of energy a second each, causing them to burst into spectacular, multi-colored flames, almost instantaneously!”

(“Magazine Reveals Stirring Statistics on Santa’s Trip,” in "The [Tacoma, WA] Morning News Tribune," 22 December 1990, p. A8; and “Seen, Heard, Said,” in "The Seattle Times," 25 December 1990, p. F2)
_____


The Crime of Being a Santa Skeptic in a Santa-Sanctified Society

Raising questions about Santa in a culture which hangs on desperately to the joys of myth and superstition can be highly unpopular. As Gamaliel Bradford lamented:

“The fairies are gone . . . the witches are gone . . . the ghosts are gone. Santa Claus alone still lingers with us. For heaven’s sake, let us keep him as long as we can.”

(Flynn, pp. 148-49)


In other words, don’t rock the boat. It feels good to believe.

And those who challenge the myth do so at their own peril.

The pressure from society to believe and deceive was well described by psychiatrist Renzo Sereno, who noted sadly that “[a]ny adult who dares tell a child the objective truth on the matter” of St. Nick “is considered worse than blasphemous.”

(Flynn, p. 129)

A similar view was held by playwright and novelist W. J. Locker, who warned:

“He who would destroy a child’s faith in Father Christmas, and thus annihilate the exquisite poetry of childhood, should be kept chained up beyond the reach of his fellow man.”

(ibid.)


Flynn recounts the particularly harrowing reaction of society when a national news network exploded the Santa myth:

"During World War II, labor leader John L. Lewis called a coal miners’ strike just before Christmas. NBC opened its radio newscast with the words, 'John L. Lewis just shot Santa Claus.' In the next hour thirty thousand calls inundated the network’s switchboards. A Texas boy despaired and downed a bottle of castor oil. So frightening was the reaction that NBC hurriedly staged an 'interview with Santa Claus' to reassure Americans that the jolly old elf was still alive. The actor portraying Santa Claus reported that 'John L. Lewis just missed me . . . '"

(Flynn, p. 136)


In our Santa-centric society, speaking the truth about the myth of St. Nick is often done at one’s own peril. As many of you may have also discovered, finding out that truth—not to mention speaking it—can be difficult, especially when the forces of society are plotting to keep it covered with a thick North Pole snow job.
_____


Profiles in Christmas Courage: Tales from the Files of Outspoken Santa Debunkers

Over the years, I have collected news stories dealing with the Santa myth. This hobby is, no doubt, grounded in my own sense of personal betrayal concerning the fable of St. Nick.

It has been heartening to me, however, to see that despite objections by society at large against those who would topple Santa from his magical pedestal, truth-tellers have refused to remain silent.


--The Priest Who Dared Declare Santa Dead

Those of have burst the Santa bubble have incurred the wrath of even God’s servants.

In an article headlined, “Christmyth: Priest says parents lie, Santa dead,” a man of the cloth was tagged and gagged by his own church:

"A priest who told youngsters that Santa Claus is dead and that Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer doesn’t exist was acting on his 'zeal to emphasize the spiritual dimension' of Christmas, church officials said Tuesday.

"The Diocese of Metuchen issued a statement to clarify comments by the Rev. Romano Ferraro at the St. John Vianney Roman Catholic Church in Colonia [New Jersey] on Saturday.

"Ferraro also had said that parents who tell their children Santa exists are liars.

"'He tried to kill Santa,' said Joanne Apolonia, a mother who attended the weekend Mass at the Church with her 'Confraternity of Christian Doctrine' class. 'That’s how the kids took it.'

"The sermon started 'very nicely,' with Ferraro explaining St. Nicholas’ history and telling the children that the saint distributed presents to the poor, a forerunner of gift-giving, said Apolonia, who attended with her daughter.

"But Ferraro than said that just as Saint Nicholas is dead, so is Santa Claus, she said. He also said there is no North Pole and no Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. . . .

"During a discussion after Mass . . . a fifth-grader asked whether the sermon meant parents were liars, Apolonia said.

"Ferraro answered, 'yes,' Apolonia said, and told the kids, who ranged from first-graders to sixth-graders, 'If you pretend to be sleeping (on Christmas Eve), you’ll catch your parents putting presents under the tree.' . . .

"'The emphasis on the birth of Christ and his love is to be paramount at Christmas,' said Father Francis J. Sergel, pastor at St. John’s. 'It is unfortunate that Father Ferraro . . . may have appeared to diminish the importance which many, especially children, attach to some of the cultural and secular aspects of the season.

“'We regret any lack of sensitivity and any disappointment or disillusionment on the part of the children.'

"Sergel also apologized for any awkwardness or difficulty the comments may have caused parents. . . .

"Robert Madison, whose child also attended, said the parents 'are going nuts' over the priest’s comments. Ferraro has 'taken away something very special to little children,' Madison said.

"The Rev. Robert Wister, associate dean at the School of Theology at Seton Hall University said, 'The priest’s main purpose was to focus the people on the centrality of Christ and draw them away from the commercialism of the holiday.

"'I’ve given sermons with that theme, but I never killed Santa.'"

("Associated Press, "dateline: Woodbridge, New Jersey, reprinted in "The Arizona Republic," 10 December 1986, p. D2)


--The Little Girl Whose Anti-Santa Stance Caused a Class to Cry

Others, including even little children, have paid the price for telling the truth about Santa--including being taken out of school.

In a news story entitled, “Pupil Kills Cherished Santa Belief, Classmates Sob,” the kindergarten teacher of student Cherish Stutts ordered her 'not to say such things' when the teacher overheard Cherish tell 'other students that Santa Claus wasn’t real.'

As a result of the teacher’s action, Cherish’s mother decided the girl was:

"going to stay home from school for the rest of the year to defend her right to [not believe in jolly old St. Nicholas] . . .

“'I’m going to home-school her,' the mother said. 'The children were discovering that not everybody thinks alike. That is a fact of life.' . . .

"Cherish’s teacher violated the girl’s rights when the teacher took the pupil aside . . . and asked her to keep her skepticism about Santa Claus to herself, Debra Stutts said.

"But Principal Gradon Axtell said the teacher talked to the girl only after several crying classmates told her about Cherish’s opinions.

"Axtell said he stands by the teacher’s actions.

“'Here (pupils) are all excited about S. Nicholas, and here is a little girl coming along and saying there is not a Santa Claus,' Axtell said.'"

In a related story, Cherish’s mother "said her daughter never has believed in Santa Claus because she was told the true story of how Santa came to be."

("Associated Press," dateline: Green Bay, Wisconsin, reprinted in "The Arizona Republic," 9 December 1989; and “Pupil Fights for Fight Not to Believe in Santa,” reprinted in "The Phoenix Gazette," 9 December 1989, p. B6 )


--The Case of the Santa-Sacking Gym Teacher

David Henry--a P.E. teacher at Fairwood Elementary School in Kent, Washington--landed in hot water when parents of five- and six-year-old students said it wasn’t:

"his business . . . .[to force their children] to put away their visions of sugar plums and view the world with Scroogelike realism. . . .

"Henry . . . touched of an unseasonable controversy . . . by attempting to destroy one of the most cherished myths in Christendom.

". . . [F]or reasons he will not disclose, Henry sat down children in gym classes from kindergarten to third grade . . . and told the students that Virginia had been deceived: There is no Santa Claus.

“'He told them mommy and daddy were Santa Claus,' said Rob Robson, whose daughter Amanda is a kindergartner at Fairwood. 'I was really upset. He’s a gym teacher and I think it’s way out of his realm to be talking about Christmas and things that really don’t pertain to what he teaches.' . . .

"Henry’s action violated no rules, [Kent School District spokeswoman Judy] Parker said.

“'This is not considered an infraction against any district policy,' she said. 'We do not have any policy on Santa.'”

(“Truth Hurts: Gym Teacher Gives Lowdown on Santa,” dateline: Kent, Washington, reprinted in "The Phoenix Gazette," 1 January 1994, p. A2)


--Fake Santa Tells the Kids That Santa Is a Fake

Then there was the case where children got it straight from the ho-ho-hoer’s mouth.

Headlined, “Mall Santa Loses Clout with Kids: Sorry Virginia . . . Gift Says He’s Fake,” a news story described how one storefront Santa delivered a blow to his own myth, along with his gift:

"Santa Claus handed a book with a singularly blunt message to the suburban Virginia tots who sat on his lap at Tysons Corner Center last week: There really is no Santa.

"After listening to what the youngsters wanted for Christmas, letting them tug on his beard and posing for pictures, the jolly old elf at the Vienna, Va., shopping mall gave each child a stocking stuffer from his sack: a children’s book called 'A Pee Wee Christmas.'

"The book’s disclosure that Santa doesn’t exist caused trouble. . . . [A]fter a Vienna mother complained, the mall pulled the books from Santa’s sack. . . .

"After [Linda] Smyth brought it to their attention, red-faced mall officials quickly reread the book, and by Saturday, Santa was offering Christmas stickers and fingerprinting kits instead. . . .

“'What can I say?' Tysons General Manager Jim Foster asked Sunday. 'We screwed up.' . . .

“'It’s just so absurd, the irony of it,' said . . . Smyth, a nurse who took her four-year-old son, Logan, to visit St. Nicholas . . . . 'Here’s Santa handing out the one thing saying he doesn’t exist. . . . '"

(originally published in "The Washington Post," reprinted in "The Arizona Republic," 26 November 1989, p. A3)
_____


The Negative Effects of Perpetrating the Santa Myth

Just how psychologically and intellectually healthy is it to foist upon children the lie that Santa is real?

In answer, author Tom Flynn offers ten compelling reasons “Why Thoughtful People Should ‘Just Say No’ to Santa Claus.”

*Reason #1: ”To teach and perpetrate the Santa Claus myth, parents must lie to their children.”

Flynn contends that the Santa story “is not innocent ‘sharing of fantasy,’ as defenders claim. It is a lie, and one in which parents are always caught, eroding children’s trust at a critical time.”

Flynn notes that children who discover that they have been lied to by their parents about Santa may cause damage to them in later years. Flynn quotes the observation of John Shlien, who warns that the destruction of belief “leaves a cynical disillusionment which occasionally shows up among the trauma in case-histories of maladjusted adults.”

Flynn also cites the warning of Dr. Lee Salk, director of pediatric psychology at the New York Hospital-Cornell Medical Center: “A child should be told from the beginning that Santa is a make believe person or it might create an early credibility gap between parent and child.”

The components of the Santa lie are sweeping and subversive. Describing some of these deceptions as “uncomfortably reminiscent of a childlike view of God,” Flynn offers a sampling of the lies parents “must tell to initiate kids into the Santa tradition:”

--A benign force reigns over the world from a headquarters at the North Pole.

--Santa sees--and records—everything that happens. On the upside nothing is overlooked. On the downside, no child has privacy.

--Every child receives his or her just desserts each year, based on a global judgment whether the child has been "good" or "bad."

--Santa physically visits every family with children in the world in one night.

--Since Santa is the source of all the bounty of Christmas, holiday cheer originates outside of the family and is unrelated to the family’s emotional or economic needs. (Flynn, p. 129)

Flynn then asks tough questions about long-term consequences of, in the name of Santa, deceiving vulnerable children:

What price are we paying for lying to children about Santa Claus? It may be steeper than we think. Because the myth panders to childhood credulity, some have implicated it in the rising incidence of scientific illiteracy among the young. Because it encourages children to build their world views on authority, not on independent thinking, others have related it to the abysmal judgment supposedly displayed by young adults. Can parents honestly be surprised when children do not consult them before experimenting with sex, drugs, crime, or destructive relationships--so soon after their parents have made it clear that children cannot trust them to provide accurate knowledge of the world? A Christian parent put the issue clearly in a letter to the editor:

“Certainly we can’t get away with lies for seven to ten years and then expect children to “outgrow” Santa . . . then suddenly expect them to believe us when we mention high intensity moral issues.

“Simply being honest with our children, in my opinion, would outweigh anything Santa ever brought.”

(Flynn, pp. 129-30, 132, 148)


*Reason #2: ”The Santa Claus myth exploits characteristic weakness in young children’s thinking, perhaps obstructing their passage to later stages of cognitive development”.

Flynn explains how lying about Santa exploits childhood tendencies to accept simplistic religious claims:

Parents who lie about Santa Claus catch their children at a vulnerable age. Youngsters have trouble distinguishing fantasy from reality as it is. . . .

Recent research suggests that the Santa Claus myth attracts the young because it exploits the same cognitive predispositions that help children learn religion . . .

Young minds might embrace religious ideas of varying complexity at characteristic ages. A . . . study by child psychologist Fritz K. Oser . . . [showed that] . . . [a]t the ages when belief in Santa peaks . . . children tend to hold a blend of two naïve religious views. The simplest [Stage One] imagines God as a distant, powerful ultimate being and a stern, unpredictable judge. . . . At the next level [Stage Two], God is still imagined as an external judge, but . . . [this latter] . . . deity can be influenced by good behavior. Such ideas echo the religions of sacrifice, familiar from ancient history and the pages of the Old Testament. . . .

Like the stage One God, Santa Claus is external and powerful. He observes from a distance and metes out justice (presents or coal) based on what he sees.

Like the more advanced State Two God, Santa Claus can be bought. Children learn that they can purchase Santa’s blessing and guaranteed themselves a merry Christmas by “being good.”

Flynn also debunks the notion that belief in Santa Claus produces good behavior in children:

According to the stereotype, the Santa myth . . . is said to help children outgrow the selfishness of early childhood and develop adult ideas about generosity and giving. Research suggests otherwise. When educational psychologists David J. Dixon and Harry L. Hom sought links between charitable acts by children and their belief in Santa Claus, they came up empty. So much for the idea that parents can justify lying about Santa because it makes their children better people. . . .

Like a true virus, the Santa Claus myth turns the wheels of society toward purposes unrelated to human welfare. It exploits the nascent religious sensibilities of children, if such there be. It compels parents to tell, and later to defend, insupportable lies. At the end, the Santa Claus myth benefits only itself.

(Flynn, pp. 132-34)


*Reason #3: ”To buoy belief, adults stage elaborate deceptions, laying traps for the child’s developing intellect”

Flynn describes how the Santa lie breeds distrust and cynicism in children toward everybody:

Disillusioned eight-year-olds don’t just learn that their parents lied to them, they learn that society invested tremendous energies to drag out the lie a little longer. No one can be trusted.

Deception about Santa begins at home. Kids begin to notice how many Santas there are at the mall. They spot the present from Santa that is wrapped with the same paper as gift from Mom and Dad. They ask how Santa can visit every house in the world in one night. It gets harder to confine the kids to their room after lights--out on Christmas Eve--time parents need to set the stage for the drama of Christmas morning. As the lies become more elaborate, and correspondingly hard to keep straight, some parents begin to feel “like a burned-out secret agent ready to come in from the cold.” . . .

Moreover, the Santa lie, on the one hand, discourages the development of critical thinking and, on the other, fosters belief in the preposterous.

Notes Flynn:

As boys and girls detect successive contradictions in the myth, always to get smokescreened by fast-talking adults, they learn to distrust their own observations and their powers of deduction. In place of independent discovery, they learn to settle for the leaden substitute of data presented by authority figures and learned by rote. . . . Too often children keep faith in Santa until they have lost faith in inquiry. . . .

After we spend our children’s formative years lying about Santa Claus and sabotaging their early efforts to unravel the myth for themselves, we stand before them revealed not merely as liars, but as the architects of an elaborate deception. Yet we are unashamed. Should we wonder when our children grow up as quick to lie as we were, or when they stumble into adulthood even easier to deceive than we? . . . Children can hardly be blamed for growing up to prefer magical thinking, paranormal beliefs, or exotic sectarian creeds to reality and critical thinking, or for grasping at any glittering lie to "add a tinsel splendour to the plain straight road of our life."

(Flynn, pp. 134, 137)


*Reason #4: ”The myth encourages lazy parenting and promotes unhealthy fear.”

It is unwise parents who hold Santa over the heads of their children as a god-like promise of reward for good behavior and as a divine threat of punishment for bad.

Flynn writes:

Children see Santa as an all-seeing judge who holds in one hand the carrot of Christmas, in the other a stick shaped like a lump of coal. The temptation for parents to abuse the myth is strong. “Mothers get a lot of mileage out of Christmas,” Erma Bombeck once observed. Parents do not imagine the damage they may do when they use the Claus as a club.

This omnipresent Santa figure, like the myth of an all-seeing God, reminds children that there is no place for them to hide:

The Santa myth teaches kids that they live in a world without privacy. The idea of a watcher who overlooks not a single forbidden actions or a single wayward thought--even one parents miss--can hardly fail to terrify some children. . . .

In essence, Flynn argues, parents who use Santa to produce compliant children are making “coalitions with God by:”

. . . extract[ing] obedience by threatening children with divine punishment. The children believe that God sees what they do, knows what they think, and punishes wrong actions. Viewed like this, God is the equivalent of Santa Claus. . . .

[I]f parents can harm their children by claiming that God is their back-up, using Santa Claus that way is probably harmful, too.

(Flynn, pp. 137-38)


*Reason #5: ”The number of characteristics that Santa Claus shares with God and Jesus verges on the blasphemous.”

Children do, indeed, make definite connections in their minds between Santa and God. As Flynn notes:

Research studies, personal anecdotes, and press reports illustrate the links between Santa Claus, God, and Jesus in the popular mind. One psychologist . . . [reported] that children’s belief in Santa Claus “lays the groundwork for later belief in God.” . . . Arnold Gesell, director of the Yale Clinic of Child Development, revealed that three-year-olds he had studied understood the concept of Santa Claus before they knew the concept of God. John Shlien reported that four- and five-year-olds would not eat candies shaped like Santa Claus, a behavior thought to show reverence. Another writer complained in the 1930s about overhearing his daughter praying to Santa Claus.

Examples of the similarities between Jesus and St. Nick in the following areas have been provided by Idaho secular humanist Ralph Nielsen:

MIRACLES

Santa Claus: Flying reindeer
Jesus: Angels

Santa Claus: Covering the world in one night
Jesus: Bringing the Word to all nations

Santa: Bottomless bag of toys
Jesus: Loaves and fishes

PARALLEL ELEMENTS

Santa Claus: Elves
Jesus: Apostles

Santa Claus: Letters to Santa
Jesus: Prayers (especially pledges of good behavior in return for favors)

Santa Claus: Milk and cookies
Jesus: Bread and wine

Santa Claus: Immortal
Jesus: Immortal

Santa Claus: All-seeing, all-knowing
Jesus: All-seeing, all-knowing

Santa Claus: Rewards and punishes behavior
Jesus: Rewards and punishes behavior

Santa Claus: Lives at white, pure North Pole
Jesus: Lives in white, pure heaven

OPPOSITES

Santa Claus: Fat
Jesus: Thin

Santa Claus: Jolly
Jesus: Serene

Santa Claus: Creature of winter
Jesus: Lived in deserts

Santa Claus: Brings toys, luxuries
Jesus: Brings health, spiritual necessities

(Flynn, pp. 138-140)


*Reason #6: ”The Santa myth harms children’s cognitive and emotional development and damages family dynamics.”

It is part of what Flynn describes as the “emotionally twisted subtexts” of Christmas celebration.

For starters, Flynn notes that Santa’s promise of reward or vow of punishment is simply too vague for small children to meaningfully comprehend:

If a merry Christmas depends on being a good boy or girl, they will struggle to be good even if they are not sure what “good” or “bad” means.

Flynn quotes Steven A. Gelb who, in his article, “Christmas Programming in Schools; Unintended Consequences” ("Childhood Education," October 1987), argues that:

"Telling children to be “good” so that Santa will be pleased and give them presents . . . is counterproductive--not only because it encourages children to look outside themselves for standards, but because the words 'good' and 'bad' convey little information, especially to young children."

Citing Eric R. Wolf, Flynn further notes that the Santa myth harms parent-child relationships by serving to enforce upon children their parents’ “own distorted, nostalgic vision of a ‘golden age of childhood.’” Noting the observations of psychiatrist Renzo Sereno, Flynn writes that parents who do so are themselves “seek[ing] meaning, comfort and reassurance in religion or mystical ideas.”

Santa also plays the role of a convenient scapegoat for parents:

"[According to sociologist Warren Hagstrom], [i]f a child has fixed his or her heart on a gift the parent cannot afford, or receives the wrong present because a Christmas list was misunderstood, the parent can always resort to the callow argument that “Santa knows best.” . . . [Santa Claus is also useful] in allowing parents to give gifts without appearing to demand anything in return. As social psychologist Barry Schwartz noted, accepting a gift which one cannot reciprocate is an admission of social inferiority that even children can understand.

Finally, Flynn cites Sereno’s view that parents employ the Santa Claus lie “as a buffer because they are unsure whether they deserve their children’s love:”

”[Parents] need the reassurance of such deceitful acts in order to secure from their children the feelings and the conduct which should be their right and their duty to expect. Instead of letting their love flow, the parents attempt to strike a bargain . . . The child . . . begins to nourish doubts about the love of his parents, and resents being obligated to a mythical ludicrous stranger, rather than being tied by love to those he loves most . . .[P]arental love—diffused through a maze of pointless and never explained ceremonies—is wholly lost.” (Flynn, pp. 141-42)


*Reason #7: ”The Santa myth stunts moral development because it encourages children to judge themselves globally, as good or bad persons, rather than to judge positive or negative behavior.”

Flynn points out the confusion generated by the Santa lie in the minds of children as to their individual, personal worth:

". . . [T]hey will strive to be “good” even if they do not understand the distinction between being a “good child” and being a child who usually does good things.

"The distinction matters. Do we want to teach our children to evaluate their behaviors, to see which can be improved? Or do we want them to score themselves as persons? Most child psychologists prefer the first strategy. When it is time to judge actions, positive or negative evaluation are applied to the acts, not to the child’s personhood. It is healthy to explain to a child why he or she has done a foolish thing but harmful to say that because of that behavior, he or she is a foolish child.

"The Santa Claus myth gets it backwards. Christmas morning is the biggest report card of the year. Presents--or coal? A year’s worth of behavior funnels into that stocking; either you were a good child or you were a bad child."

(Flynn, p 142)


*Reason #8: “The myth promotes selfish and acquisitive attitudes among children.”

As if the commercialized orgy of the contemporary holiday season is not bad enough, Flynn notes that the St. Nick lie “prepares children to become docile members of consumer culture:”

In a study of children’s letters to Santa Claus, kids always asked Santa for material items, not new skills, intangible benefits for other family members, or good health. By contrast, when the same children listed their desires in contexts not associated with Santa Claus, fewer than half of their requests concerned material objects. (original emphasis)

Citing “masterful” research in this area, Flynn says that Santa becomes a key figure in seducing children into becoming “materially indulgent” commercial feeders by :

"[teaching them] that life is so full of free lunches, there may not be enough noontimes to eat them all. In this way kids are groomed to assume their roles as American consumers, grasping for happiness with each new purchase. . . . [Thus,] . . . virtue is not its own reward, but if we are good enough a reward will eventually appear."

(Flynn, pp. 143-44)


*Reason #9: “Children may not enjoy the Santa Claus drama as much as parental nostalgia suggests.”

Contrary to what parents may want to think, many children--particularly the younger ones--view Santa Claus with a certain amount distress and uneasiness. As an indicator of that, recall how many small children recoil, protest and cry when placed on Santa’s lap in the mall.

(Flynn, p. 144)


*Reason #10: ”Contemporary authorities who defend the Santa myth on psychotherapeutic grounds fail to make a convincing case."

Contrary to the assertion of self-proclaimed “friends of Santa” who say that discouraging belief in the St. Nick myth throws children into an unfriendly world, Flynn notes that no evidence exists in the literature “that children denied the Santa Claus myth grow up “to hate reality.”

Ultimately, Flynn says, the problem with the Santa myth is that:

. . . Santa is viewed not as myth or metaphor, but as fact. . . .

American culture treats the figure of Santa Claus too literally for the myth to function as a true fable. It is time for mental health and child development professionals to reopen their minds and ask whether the Santa myth is good for children.

(Flynn, p. 146)
_____


Conclusion: Chucking Santa in Favor of Checking Reality

As recovering ex-Mormons who have learned through our own difficult and painful experiences not to depend on harmful magical, superstitious, and “godly” beliefs spoken to us in authoritarian tones by God's supposedly designated conveyors of "truth," what should we consider teaching our children about the Jolly Old Elf?

That can be a tough question--given that we live in a society fixated on perpetuating fantasies for a variety of deep, psychological reasons--but at a high cost to authenticity.

In an article entitled, “Is Santa Claus real? Question never grows old for children,” Maureen Downey of Cox News Service writes:

"Santa Claus brings children toys and parents a quandary.

"Do you pretend that St. Nick brought the tricycle, or come clean on who fills the stockings?

"Should you fall back on the old 'Santa is the spirit of love' speech?

"Ethicist Judith Boss of the University of Rhode Island advocates honesty, saying, 'Children depend on their parents for a realistic view of the world.' . . .

"But even if a parent opts for candor, children may still insist Santa is real, says Atlanta psychologist Cathy Blusiewicz.

“'It is going to be hard to convince them, because a lot of other people are pushing the idea--grandparents, nursery school teachers and peers,' she says."

("TThe Arizona Republic," 22 December 1991, p. G7)


Still, psychologists suggest that honesty is the best policy with children, when it comes to debunking the Santa myth.

In an article entitled, “Kids Weigh Evidence, Make Own Decision on Santa’s Existence,” Nancy Curry, a child-development specialist at the University of Pittsburg, notes:

“'Once they [children] start to question, you know they’re getting ready to want to hear the real answer.' . . . .

"Curry recommends to parents that '[w]hen the child starts to ask the practical questions, then throw it back to them and say, ‘Well, what do you think?’"

The article continues:

"Curry said talking to children about whether Santa Claus exists is a little like talking to them about sex.

“'Usually, the children will ask questions and not need great, long full explanations,' she said.

“'Usually, it’s good for adults to listen to children and get what their ideas are.'"

The article further notes that according to:

"[a] study by two New York psychologists of more than 500 children, . . . on average, children believe in Santa Claus until they are about 7-and-a-half years old, often carefully weighing the evidence before coming to a conclusion.

"Most children believe in Santa Claus because books, advertising, the entire culture tells them he is real, said Cynthia Scheibe of New York’s Ithaca College, co-author of the study with John Condry of Cornell University.

“'The evidence clearly supports that Santa Claus is real, given what (children) know, give the fact that most adults say Santa Claus is real, that he brings you presents and you can see him,' she said.

“'For adults, it’s an issue that Santa couldn’t get to all the houses in one night, but magic is a pretty good answer for kids.' . . .

"Scheibe said it is best for an adult to confirm the truth only if a child has strong doubts after wrestling with the question of Santa Claus’ existence.

"'If kids come to the conclusion on their own, they feel a sense of accomplishment,' she said.

“'It’s sort of a rite of passage.'”

"Curry said it is fun to put out cookies and milk for Santa, help kids mail wish lists to the North Pole, and clean out the chimney on Christmas Eve, but she cautioned against using Ol’ St. Nick as a means of discipline.

“'The "you better watch out," that kind of stuff, that can be kind of manipulative,' she said.”

("Associated Press," dateline: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, reprinted in "The Arizona Republic," 25 December 1987, p. D6)


Flynn offers five specific suggestions to help parents “steer clear” of encouraging negative Santa myths that are damaging to the emotional, psychological and intellectual well-being of their children:

--"Tell your kids that the Santa Claus myth is not true.

--Make clear to children that it is parents and relatives, not supernatural visitors, who put those presents under the Christmas tree.

--Do not call Santa Claus a metaphor, an allegory, or 'the spirit of giving.' Just say that Santa Claus is a false belief that other people sometimes teach their children. Present it as you might a peculiar religious doctrine: If other children believe in Santa, that is their right, and their sincerity in so believing it oughtn’t to be impugned. But none of that requires entertaining for a moment the idea that belief in Santa Claus is either true or beneficial.

--Tell children why Santa Claus has no place in your household.Instill elementary principles of critical thinking: a realistic outlook, a respect for truth, and an appreciation for cause and effect.

--Encourage (or at least permit) children to share their Santa skepticism with friends, at school, and during recreational activities. This is vital even if it leads to confrontations with neighbors, relatives, or teachers who accuse your kids of 'ruining other children’s Christmas.' Should this occur, defend your children’s open iconoclasm. Challenge critics who stoop to such negative stereotypes as ‘Scrooge’ and ‘Grinch.’ Most important, be sure children know that—and how—you supported them in their stance.”

(Flynn, p. 147)

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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 08:08PM

Did you even read the artyicle i cited? I put out a citation and now you want to invoke this?

"This debate will be based on logic and reason, so no sources are necessary unless there is any statistical information or actual situation presented.

you already did not follow this!!!


when will you answer my question...it is innocuous enough aint it?
I gotta go walk the dogs...when i get back...maybe you can have an answer to my questio ! then maybe we can talk!

before i do...with this statement you seem to think that children should not be children...you seem to want this coming out of the womb...

"Instill elementary principles of critical thinking: a realistic outlook, a respect for truth, and an appreciation for cause and effect."

from 2 years olds??? Child please!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 08:10PM by bignevermo.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 08:14PM

. . . rationalize it, minimize its damage, excuse its mechanisms of control and deceit, and sell its goods to the public as something they want and need.

You are part of Santa's workshop priestly class.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 08:15PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 08:49PM

and once again you are arrogant enough to "know" what i believe and what i dont believe...even after my telling you that it just aint so...that is "unbelievable"!

Why is that Steve? Why do you think i "have religion"???
I dont even have Santa religion...i dont even have any children!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 08:53PM by bignevermo.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 08:51PM


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 09:39PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 08:55PM

still waiting for you response to my question Steve...

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:06PM

". . . [I]n People magazine...hey i know..it aint a scientific periiodical..."

Now, back to justifying lying to children, to manipulating their behavior via that lying and, in the process, to contributing to commercial greed across the country in the name of jolly old mythical Nick.

Amazing how grown-ups go to such desperate lengths to defend their deceptive Santa religion. That you can't see the parallels between it and other controlling, deceptive religious systems is proof of the amazingly stubborn ability of the human mind to self-delude in order to rationalize given behaviors.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 09:09PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:15PM

A. I have no religion
B. that you wont answer a question
C. that you dont realize that fantasy..if not taken to the extreme is good for children.
D. That you do not have the(勇気)courage to answer my question.
E.that you do have "amazingly stubborn ability of the human mind" to not answer a simple question!
Hey i think this happened once before! :(



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 09:17PM by bignevermo.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:20PM


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 09:21PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: honestone ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 08:15PM

Love those reasons the kids gave and oh so true and sensible.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 08:19PM

"Parental investment in Santa Claus is far larger than anything kids do, suggesting that parents’ defense of the Santa Claus myth is more about what they want than about what kids want. Their own memories about enjoying Santa may be heavily influenced by cultural assumptions about what they should have experienced. Is it not possible that kids would find at least as much pleasure in knowing that parents are responsible for Christmas, not a supernatural stranger?"
_____



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 08:28PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 08:58PM

"What effect does the discovery by the children have on the parents?

The most frequently mentioned parental response was sadness. The discovery was an indication that the child was growing up, and it was happening too fast."

Imagine parents realizing time is passing by and their little ones are growing up...

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:10PM


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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:45PM

the data shows that the MOST ANGST was from the parents not the children...so the data show that Christmas is not bad for the kids...unless the parents go overboard...like your parents may have.. not all parents were like yours or others here on this board...
just sayin

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 05:30PM

Wait. That sounds like religion. :)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 05:34PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: Lost Mystic ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 05:49PM

My son asked me the same question.

I felt like an idiot saying "I don't know, I guess because everyone else in our culture does."

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Posted by: rowan ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 05:52PM

People who teach their children about Santa should think about the thousands of good little children who get nothing for Christmas. So these poor children wonder why they are overlooked by Santa, just what have they done that is so wrong?

Instead of teaching our children about a fictional Santa who brings them gifts, maybe we should teach our children to be a Santa to others.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:44PM

In my inner city school we made sure every child had a visit from Santa and at least one gift and a turkey with all the trimmings.

Give me examples of your accusation.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 10:36PM

To me Santa is the personification of loving generosity. I like that I can buy a gift for a child or someone else anonymously and then say that it's from Santa. It's a way of giving without taking credit.

I agree with Cheryl that people who work in inner city schools try to make sure that each child gets at least one gift. I think very highly of the Marine's Toys For Tots program which helps to make this happen in many schools.

In my family we also got gifts from Santa's reindeer! I always loved my "reindeer gifts."

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 05:52PM

Because it is the cultural norm and it is fun. I see no harm if you don't make too big a deal of it such as threatening kids or insisting they believe after they are ready to give it up. I loved Santa and figured it out for myself when I was 6 or so.

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Posted by: Lucky ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 05:56PM

if a parent is going to go ahead and go all the way and poison the child's mind with Christianity.................

a young mind is very vulnerable, either a parent is emphasizing objectivity and grasping a sense of reality, or they or not.

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Posted by: honestone ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 08:11PM

I never threatened my kids with getting presents at Christmas or not getting them due to behavior. Most of our presents were from family. Only two or three from Santa. I see nothing wrong with fantasy. They read stories that are fantasy all the time in school. They love to "imagine".

The only time it can go too far is when parents talk about Santa as being the provider of toys for everyone. When they say he visits EVERY house everywhere, etc. I did not talk about going all over the world with a sleigh full of toys. I answered many questions with "I don't know. What do you think?" They eventually figure it out on their own. Santa is no big deal.

Hopefully most of the poor children of the country are given enough to satisfy them as well- if they are part of Head Start or some other outreach program. Would hate for any child to get nothing. But we can only do our part in our community. Our church provides gifts for 250 kids every yr. and 70 boxes of food for parents.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 08:20PM

"The entire Santa Claus myth is based on the idea of children getting gifts. There’s nothing wrong with getting gifts, but Santa Claus makes it the focus on the entire holiday. Children are encouraged to conform their behavior to parental expectation in order to receive ever more presents rather than simply lumps of coal. In order to make Christmas lists, kids pay close attention to what advertisers tell them they should want, effectively encouraging unbridled consumerism."
_____



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 08:28PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:23PM

We asked the kids why they think they're taught to believe in Santa. Very few [8 percent] said it was so they'd be good.

8% Steve for being good to recieve presents...you keep railing about 8% of the reason.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:25PM

This is all about you and your valued personal experiences, which you are attempting to preserve by sales-pitching the Santa myth to kids and parents alike.

In this you are really no different than many other rationalizing adults.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 09:27PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:57PM

it was an interview published in People...and he was using his data in the interview... I am quite sure with all your resources you can find the abstract if you want to!

and this:

"which you are attempting to preserve by sales-pitching the Santa myth to kids and parents alike."

to whom am i pitching Santa? I am having a discussion with you am i not? so it would be to you i am defending...not pitching...pitching is what you did in Japan...defending is what i am doing...big difference sir!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 10:01PM by bignevermo.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 10:45PM

Now, nite to nite to one who, when he has lost the argument, resorts to calling his opponents Nazis. I suspected you weren't too deep.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 10:46PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: honestone ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:27PM

That is your belief, not mine. I could care less what advertisers think my kids should have or what they thought they needed as little ones. I got what I could afford. Don't you get that? And as I said before I did not tie in the gift giving with behavior at all. Being a Christian we give gifts like the wise men gave...to baby Jesus. Our gift to Jesus is how we helped the poor when we bought things for disadvantaged kids...we do it every yr. I know, atheists, etc. don't get that.No big deal.

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Posted by: Just Me ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 08:24PM

I love the myth of Santa. If it is handled right, the idea of someone spending all year getting ready to give gifts to children, is a good buffer, like spiderman, the avengers etc. They find out soon enough how cruel our species can be. I never told my son Santa was real. Santa brought great toys, and then santa sort of lost his touch. Cool presents were most likely from mom and dad, underwear and socks showed up in the stockings. By the time he figured out Santa wasn't real, he was ready to let go of that fantasy.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 08:29PM

I think most kids do figure it out for themselves without feeling betrayed. As far as the consumer aspect, that can be bad, but does it really matter who is giving the kids way too much for Christmas? Spoiling your kids and giving them everything they want isn't good whether you do it in your own name or in Santa's.You don't even need Christmas and birthdays to give your kids too muchAgain, this post was supposed to be an answer to just me



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 08:33PM by bona dea.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 08:36PM

. . . That is, until you find out you've been lied to in order to exact your obedience and that he's a complete fake invented by the commercial class to boost profit margins during the critical holiday season.

Merry Christ(ka-ching!)mas.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 08:38PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:07PM

man o man...that was even before Coca-Colas time! no Steve..it has been commercialized...greatly so...but its origins in retail commercialism? not so much really...It was Coke that "invented" the current image of Ole Saint Nick but Santa was not "invented by the retail segment!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 09:32PM by bignevermo.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:13PM

. . . in the New York City "Sun" newspaper in 1897. Even today that letter is used for commercial purposes, with, for example, the Lord & Taylor department store in 2003 turning the "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus" letter into a mechanical holiday window storefront display on Manhattan's Fifth Avenue.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 09:19PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:26PM

According to a tradition which can be traced to the 1820s, Santa Claus lives at the North Pole, with a large number of magical elves, and nine (originally eight) flying reindeer. Since the 20th century, in an idea popularized by the 1934 song "Santa Claus Is Coming to Town", Santa Claus has been believed to make a list of children throughout the world, categorizing them according to their behavior ("naughty" or "nice") and to deliver presents, including toys, and candy to all of the well-behaved children in the world, and sometimes coal to the naughty children, on the single night of Christmas Eve. He accomplishes this feat with the aid of the elves who make the toys in the workshop and the reindeer who pull his sleigh.[6][7]

from wiki of course!
just sayin!

Hey look it is SB...his premise is in the Virginia letters:


"The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished."

thats what SB wants...hr wants children right out of the womb to start training in critical thinking...SB is the "Fantasy Nazi"...NO FANATSY FOR YOU!!

the big Grinch!!! :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 09:31PM by bignevermo.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:28PM

In case you have forgotten already, it was you who screamed out, "oH YEAH THAT RETAIL SEGMENT BACK IN THE EARLY 1900'S SURE WAS A POWERFUL FORCE!!" (emphasis and punctuation yours)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 09:32PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:33PM

so lets fixate on that now like the last time! :) :) ;)

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:34PM


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 09:34PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:35PM

geez can i be the Prophet now???

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:36PM


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 09:36PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:54PM

...now the puerile crap is gonna start so i am going to go for now...but i will be back!!

but before i go... as you well know...there are many atheists that enjoy Santa...so i hardly think they or i believe it is a religion!! nite nite...sleep tight dont let the bed bugs bite!!

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Posted by: Mia ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:37PM

All that said, i'm glad my parents promoted that fairy tale.

It was one of the few bright spots in an otherwise dismal childhood.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:41PM


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 09:42PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:49PM

,,,not that i would dismiss anyone's agony or pain...those experiences do not prove anything except that their experience was not good...
just sayin!

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 09:55PM

Anyone who can't hold their own in a free exchange of ideas without calling their contestant a Nazi has lost the argument--along with whatever respect I may have had for you.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 09:59PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: May 21, 2012 10:12PM

Any thing can be a bad experience for kids if it handled by toxic parents or if things go wrong.That doesn't mean everyone else has to throw it out. A few posters had bad experiences with Santa and Christmas, but it sounds like the majority of us and people at large like the idea and have good memories.At any rate one person's experience is not everyone's and parents have a right to make up their own minds.I am not throwing out Santa because a minority of people feel betrayed.

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