http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1672822

and

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1597568,1597568#msg-1597568



I almost lost my mind today, I was watching Real Time which is one of my favorite show, she asked me who was that guy , I told her it was Bill Maher, she said good because he is hateful and disrespectful,she will never listen to him and she went back to her room.
2 days ago she told my wife that I should buy a new car for wife, to be fair I am cheap, we both drive old cars that are fine for are needs, I have not make a car payment since 2007, She feels since her daughter is pregnant she need a better car. I rather save money for a house than a car at this moment. She still does not have a job, when she moved with us the told her she was going to pay rent, then she changed to help with groceries and now she cant do anything. Yes she still has not find a job yet, he has been with out a job since the beginning of the summer.........
One day I am going to loose my mind



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2015 06:35PM by southernutah.

Well, she is going to have opinions that differ from yours. I think that choosing to go to her room when she didn't like the TV offering was sensible. And as far as cars, she obviously values new cars, but she's not the one who is making financial decisions for your family. Just keep saying to yourself -- anyone can have an opinion. It doesn't meant that you have to pay attention to it.

When I lived with my mom, who was far more politically conservative than I am, and loved to debate, I often used the phrase, "We will have to agree to disagree about that."

This reminds me of some people I've known with borderline personality disorder. This woman is trouble. If you want your marriage to stay intact, you need to get her out ASAP. First, you need to strengthen your relationship with your wife. This is needed since most likely your MIL has been subtly tearing you apart behind your back. You'll know for sure if your MIL is a psycho bitch if she resists your wife and you connecting rather than encouraging it. I don't care how cheap you are, you need your wife on your side. Take her on date after date. Once she is, kick your MIL to the curb and make her another person's problem. People like her are locusts and devour anything in their path. She will literally ruin your marriage because right now she is in a competition with you for her daughter. Get this taken care of before the baby is born. I repeat get this taken care of BEFORE the baby is born.

Also consider: do you want this woman giving your wife advice on child rearing?

I am really sorry that you are going through all this, and am glad you can rant and vent here.

I am wondering how it would work if you called a family meeting and discussed it all. SEt your boundaries, and listen to hers and also address the whole thing of her not contributing to the household. It all needs to be sorted out or it WILL blow up at at some point and unfortunately you may end up looking like the 'baddie'.

Would that work for you?

I like this idea^

This is the third update and the first thread was in June. I have reviewed all three threads and it has been suggested repeatedly to have a family meeting, draw the lines of boundaries, be on the same page as you wife, and to consult a counselor or therapist to help you learn how to communicate in a healthy way.

You seem to be refusing to take any of this advice, yet you continue to post complaints about your MIL.

I have no further advice. I do not understand why you continue to post further complaints without ever acting on any of the advice you're offered. I haven't seen a single comment from you detailing what you wife thinks or what discussions you've had. It seems to me that you are just posting to complain about your MIL. I hope you're getting what you want out of these threads.

The only thing I'm getting out of them is frustration.

It is baffling, isn't it dogzilla?

But, of course, we've all met the personality that wants to chronically, incessantly complain - for the sake of. But when given some viable, well thought out options of how to extricate themselves from an unpalatable situation, the complainer will refuse to acknowledge that the advice was given, let alone start to consider ways to implement said advice.

We've had lots of those folks here at RFM over the years - whether it relates to the church, to family, to work, or to friends.

I've just decided that in life, some people are hard-wired to habitually complain, and would be lost without the ability to do so.

(But I'm being a bit of a cynical bastard this morning, angry at my stepmonster for convincing my 80 + year old father to spend > $20,000 on apocalypse paraphernalia, which of course will turn out to be a complete waste of their finite resources. I know, unrelated to the topic at hand. But still in the same self-destructing behavior family I suppose.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2015 11:38AM by schlock.

Yep. This is usually the type of person I walk away from, shaking my head, and saying to myself, "Huh. Some people wouldn't be happy at home."

I encountered this type of person when I was a social worker.

I would counsel them, give them referrals, send them to specialized programs, only to have them return with the same complaints.

They had not called the referrals, attended any programs or done in fact anything towards a solution. Or if they did and I checked with the non-profit, they would tell me advice was given that was, of course, never taken.

Deeper thinking about the individuals convinced me that these people need a listener. For whatever reason, they do not act to resolve the problems causing them pain and no one wants to hear the complaining any more.

Were the OP to go to counseling because he truly felt he was losing his mind, the counselor would help him select one thing to do (out of many possible ideas suggested here on RfM) and
ACT on it. Just one.

There is no cure for cowardice and refusal to act as one's own advocate. We cannot do it for him.

As we all know who have worked with domestic violence victims, deep down the victim somehow feels they deserve the violence, that they are "no good" and this is what they "had coming." They will say they started the argument. There is a level of low self esteem perhaps due to abuse in childhood that finds being beaten is familiar and means you "matter."

In the perverse world of negative attention, the OP is enjoying his mother-in-law's intrusion. Simply put, if he were not, he would do something to stop it.

You've been more than helpful. It's a good thing this lonely man has RfM and its sad that there's no one else who will listen.


Kathleen

PS. In Japan they are trying out robots to listen to the complaints of the elderly. It wears out the caregivers but the robots just nod and say "mmmm" and --get this-- the elderly are fine with it.

I also think there's some degree of learned helplessness going on. People like this have often had someone else in their lives do the heavy lifting for them, emotionally speaking. He either has no idea how to take action or doesn't want to be "the bad guy" and take responsibility for setting boundaries. He wants someone else to do that for him, so people can "be mad" at the boundary setter and he's still a Nice Guy. Maybe that's actually passive-aggression, rather than learned helplessness. After I wrote that out, I realized I'd just described PA pretty well. :-D

And yes, this personality type is generally speaking the product of a dysfunctional and/or abusive family of origin wherein the voices of reason were vilified/demonized and seen as bad or rude somehow. Leadership is viewed as bossy or domineering.

People need to put on their title. Just venting.

+1

Its easy for people not living with a monster mother-in-law to think the op is ignoring their advice.

Sure if the OP never responds or claims the advice has been tried already or gives excuses for not trying the advice or whatever. It's very easy to think that. That's why I think it.

I think my response to mother-in-law would be "I agree that a new car would be great for your daughter but since we are not receiving the added income we were counting on from your rent, it will just have to wait. Or did you want to contribute to a car instead?"

Hey, wait, didn't MIL just buy a car she can't afford?

How 'bout share it with her daughter? Or give it to her, if it's so important?

Unless she is doing things to earn her keep then get her out. Bad, Bad, Bad for the marriage.

Pay her to leave. It will pay back big dividends.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2015 02:16PM by AmIDarkNow?.

What good are family meetings and boundaries if one person ignores them? MIL is set in her ways. She is not going to change. She might adhere to some rules but it's not likely.
She sounds like a bee that comes in and buzzes around then leaves!

Her opinions can be ignored.

Unless you can build a tiny house on your property for her she is stuck in the house with you.

"Dear MIL,

I would like to do that, but since I am supporting you and having a new baby entering the world, we can not afford it. Perhaps when it is just Dear wife and the kids, it will be time to upgrade."

It is always funny how the people with NO money tell people WITH money how to spend it.

RMM

Sorry I just wanted to vent, I cant believe she is to stupid, keep in mind I dont want to loose my wife if someday if lose my mind, sorry again

Keep MIL around long enough, and you may both lose your minds. :)

I just had a friend say to me "You never do what I say you should do!"

My reply was, "And what's your point?"

Sometimes there is no easy answer. I don't think you can ever understand all the factors that go into someone else's decisions.

Just don't talk to me in the morning.

Sometimes the best advice in the world is useless.

From my experience, the person who is the main antagonist in any situation is very skilled at what they do.

The person who is fed up with the situation, and approaches the antagonist will likely be made to feel they are in the wrong, not the antagonist.

The antagonist will also be skilled enough to then rally the other spouse onto their side, making the situation worse for the original person.

southernutah realistically doesn't have the skills to battle this woman. She has been practicing her game for years and is a master manipulator.

I hear you southernutah, vent away.

The real issue is his wife's behavior in telling her mom to move in without discussing it with southernutah. So although there are certain things that can be done to manage MIL's behavior, the real priority is to get the wife on board with getting MIL out of the house.

I agree, but perhaps the wife is cut from the same cloth as her mother, and the OP is going to get out manipulated no matter how he approaches this.

The MIL is the pain he feels, but it is not the root cause of the problem. The root cause is his wife. Confronting the MIL is worthless until the wife is fully in agreement with the OP.

Answer me this: Have you ever met a woman that is not manipulative to some degree?

Women are the hands who rocks the cradle. She (his wife) is having his baby. So they're vain, maybe narcissistic, selfish, etc.

Most of us are at least a little.

Cut the women some slack. They're all struggling to get by. The MIL may be destitute, but she isn't homeless. She has a family, and that's where she's staying for now.

Let son-in-law kvetch. Kvetching is good for the soul. They'll work it out. Either that or his marriage will hit rock bottom. I hope for his sake they work it out.

amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Answer me this: Have you ever met a woman that is
> not manipulative to some degree?
>
Yes, but maybe that was a wax model woman in Madam Tussauds. :D

So, if I'm hearing you correctly, you're saying that even though the MIL has made a lovely hot mess of her own life, that it's the OP's responsibility to care for her, because charity?

I'm more of the belief that the homeless, abused animals, refugees, the infirm, the addicted, the elderly, the powerless, the abused, are the ones deserving of our charity. Those that are where they are due to externalities beyond their control. (And yes, it's easy for me to argue that the homeless, and the addicted, are where they are due to biology / genetics.)

But the OP's MIL?

Naw. For me anyhoo. In fact, I'll bet, the MIL has spent her life being coddled and enabled by others, and at this point in her life, she sees no reason to behave differently. She is the princess of her dysfunction.

Narcissists harm. They inflict damage. They destroy lives. All without batting a pretty little eyelash.

All codependency does is engender more codependency.

You sound really angry, and maybe righteously so.

The OP doesn't sound angry but distressed. He's in a predicament, but is dealing with it in a rational way as best as he can.

I just feel that families deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Without vindicating his MIL or condemning, I'm congratulating him for dealing with it while remaining calm under pressure.

The MIL may be a blessing to him and his family, when the baby arrives. If she can help with the childcare while he and his wife work, they'll have a built in care provider, which will save them gobs of money which might result in her earning her keep.

I just believe if he keeps his calm like he has been, there may be an alternate and better solution than throwing her out in the street. She isn't yesterdays news. She's still a part of the family he married into.

Families are worth fighting for IMO, if they can be helped. She doesn't sound hopeless to me. She may be a little looney, but things could still work out in the end. It may even be a comfort to the daughter to have her there when the baby comes.

I can't remember who told me this years ago, but most of us just need to be heard. We aren't asking for advice. We don't need someone to fix it for us.

It would be nice if all of our lives were perfect, but they aren't.

I have been in therapy for a long, long time. I only go talk to my therapist about 2 to 3 times a year. The thing I loved about him was that he would give me the advice and most of the time allow me to figure it out. He knew I was dealing with enough as it was. And though it may seem like I've been in therapy FOREVER. Like I said, 2 to 3 times a year now. He knew how to help me and I'm not really sure how he did it, but he did. I have come SO FAR. But I did need someone who listened whether I paid him or not because everyone else didn't want to listen. And, no, my therapist didn't drag things out to earn money and he didnt' make me delve into my past to figure out what my mom and dad to mess me up. I go in with a problem. He explains what is going on and now I go home and deal with it. This year so far has been my dog dying and I may just call him to talk about my daughter and her getting married and the drama that has unfolded because of the LDS church this week. Sometimes we just need perspective. Sometimes we just need someone to say we get it or we have empathy.

Go ahead and vent.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2015 09:55AM by cl2.

Yep.

And when my ex and I finally divorced, not only was I able to get shed of her narcissistic self, but too, her whole narcissistic family.

I was blissfully lucky to escape (looking back).

(And I usually hope, in situations like these, that the protagonist finds a way, someday, to extricate himself / herself from the untenable predicament that they find himself / herself in. In reality, the OP's spouse, nor the OP's MIL, is likely to change. Narcissists rarely do.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2015 10:34AM by schlock.

Honestly I think the son-in-law has shown great reserve and kindness to his MIL.

For whatever dysfunction may be there (what family *isn't* dysfunctional to some degree?) he isn't throwing her out in the streets. He's shown her love and kindness one would expect for someone's spouse's mother.

We could take a lesson from him in long suffering. Seriously. It may sound funny, but it's true.

He has *felt* like he's at his wits end, but hasn't acted on it. He has compassion or she'd already be homeless.

Cl2 is right about needing to vent somewhere. Maybe he just needs somewhere to vent until this blows over or they work through it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2015 10:32AM by amyjo.

I don't think there's any nobility in suffering needlessly while other people stomp all over your boundaries. Nobody cares if you're the martyr, and if anything, that plays right into the MIL's manipulations.

If the OP is incapable of setting boundaries and the MIL won't attend or participate or even respect a family meeting, that's why we've suggested the employment of a professional to help and guide the OP.

I don't advocate crossing boundaries.

She is part of his family now, for better or worse.

I just believe she deserves to have some support. Otherwise she will be homeless and more destitute than she is. I don't see that as taking advantage as much as I see her extreme need.

She probably has mental health issues to address. When you're living in dire poverty, she probably can't deal with any of that. It may be she hasn't got anywhere else to go but the streets.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2015 11:34AM by amyjo.

And it comes best from our children.
I'm not saying this to be mean, nasty...It is just a fact; I was like that and I remember very well how I wanted to abuse the relationship of Parent & Son.

I raised 4 of them and all of them are pulling this stuff even though they are adults.....