Here is the situation, my mother super LDS moved to my house. She just quit her work as a well pay teacher just to find something else, she left her job because she did not get along with her principal, keep in mind she is 59 year old, I told her to suck it up and retire at 62 with social security and her pension. Of course she did not listen, and she is here in Utah County in my house. I told her at 59 is not a good time to start a new career, she did not listen. Today she went to see new cars, she need a new car because her is too old.I told her to find a job and then get a car, she did not listen. She is super naive, does not know how to manage any money, she is always broke. She failed for bankruptcy more than a few times. She is already pissing me off with so much stupidity.My wife is incapable to tell her how reality work, she lives in a Mormon bubble



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2015 10:51PM by southernutah.

Always remember it is YOUR house!

I started a new career at 59 in which I plan to stay for many, many years, because (a) I enjoy it, and (2) we need the money. It really is a good job (in the sciences). So it can be done.But you are right, that she should prob ably earn some money before she spends it.

slskipper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I started a new career at 59 in which I plan to
> stay for many, many years, because (a) I enjoy it,
> and (2) we need the money. It really is a good
> job (in the sciences). So it can be done.But you
> are right, that she should prob ably earn some
> money before she spends it.

The thing she is competing with brand new graduates for a teaching position, is going to be super hard or imposible , to be honest she is going to end up in Walmart. I dont see it happen, I wish the best but she gave the typical answer "she pray about it"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2015 10:38PM by southernutah.

Money wise yes. But it's hard to get your first job when you're competing with people with a lot of experience. So she has that on her side.

They tend to be more eager to please and flexible about mindlessly following regulations and administrative directives. This woman has a history of not being able to get along with the boss. That's not a good reason to hire her and have to pay her more than others clamoring to go along and get along.

I don't know about that. Being an experienced teacher is in some ways an asset but most people in education know that kids take a ton of energy and given the choice between a younger person and someone who looks to be nearing their senior years, I would go with the younger person. I know it is illegal to do so but let's face it, it is easy to find another reason to not hire them.

I am in education too and have often been on hiring panels. In one case I remember, there was a part timer applying for a full time position. Since I had worked with people in the same department, I knew how this applicant operated. She tried to win favor with students by making subtle little digs against other teachers. The other teachers knew she did this but had no way to prove it. I figured if she did this when she had no job security how bad would her behaviour get if she had job security. On every question I just lowered the score I gave her. Not fair you say, maybe not but I had heard about her doing this from a variety of sources, people I knew and respected. I didn't feel guilty, just that I had helped our school dodge the bullet with her.

So long story but I am guessing that MIL will have a hard time getting a full time teaching job and supply teaching is a very hard gig even for an experienced teacher.

trying to start a NEW career. Get your story straight.

You likely had sense and drive. She does not. She's a freeloader with a head full of cotton candy.

My daughters mil(nevermo) has done almost the exact same thing. The only difference is my daughter refused to let her move in.

Mil is in the middle of a divorce. Kinda sad, but it's her issue, not her kids. She's trying to make her son (my sil) into a surrogate husband. Not a good idea.

I think she's finally considering going back to her town and state of origin. She's lived there all of her life until the last year when she moved across the country. She tried her best to get in the door and live with her kids. Her kids inlaws weren't having it. She's a teacher and has a ton of job experience. Why she didn't wait until she 62 boggles the mind.

madalice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My daughters mil(nevermo) has done almost the
> exact same thing. The only difference is my
> daughter refused to let her move in.
>
> Mil is in the middle of a divorce. Kinda sad, but
> it's her issue, not her kids. She's trying to make
> her son (my sil) into a surrogate husband. Not a
> good idea.
>
> I think she's finally considering going back to
> her town and state of origin. She's lived there
> all of her life until the last year when she moved
> across the country. She tried her best to get in
> the door and live with her kids. Her kids inlaws
> weren't having it. She's a teacher and has a ton
> of job experience. Why she didn't wait until she
> 62 boggles the mind.

She felt the spirit I guess, reality is going to catch up with here very soon.

here is more information about here from previous post

my mother in law has been in the church for around 30 years , she is a convert ,single , and also a divorcee , her ex dump her because she got too extreme religious, since she got divorce around 25 years ago , not a single date ,and she is a beautiful lady , she is taking antidepressant , and she is not happy . She is still in loves his ex deeply , what kind of life is that , where are the blessing ?

Well every year my mother in law shows up to watch the conference at my house , I dont really care, she know how i feel about the church . However I feel sorry for my wife because she does not like it but she is too nice to say no . Dont feel sorry for my I will be watching the Formula 1 race.
Many of you knows that the is a school teacher , she is about to lose her house , and I bet anything that she pays tithing every month. Even though she has a college degree, she is not very wel verse in life or political issues. One time she was explaining that the Supreme Court has a jury. I just want to vent a bit
She just decided to walk away from his house and ask us if she can move with us . She is not very smart when it comes to financial decision , she took a second mortgage on her house , in a teachers salary, it went form $800 to $1200 , She pays tithing, that what bother me.
She is a convert too , she got dumped by the father of my wife because she got too religious , and she has been single ever since the divorce ( around 20 years) , I mean not sex at all. Also her 3 kids have left the church . Where are the blessing ? always poor , no husband, her kids left the cult , I feel really bad
she hated me because i was not Mormon , she did the impossible to brake the relationship between me and me future wife , she talked to the bishop and they develop a plan to get me out of the picture. The bishop and my mother in love told pretty much all the returned missionary to contact my future wife and ask her out , that went for months , i dont have any respect for her.

Also my mother in love will invited Mormon guys to her house so they can put the moves on my future wife. she ruined our wedding too , she started to crying in the middle of it , that was a really nice present
she is the stupidest person I ever meet , she has a bachelor degree and she is a teacher, she is the kind of person that will watch the Colbert report and wont get that is satire. One time i made a joke about that my brother in law, that he may have Oedipus complex, because he likes to take naps on her mom's bed ,guess what they did not know what Oedipus complex was.

But the way my wife is pregnant, due date is around the 29 of December. We live in a small house 2 bedrooms, We don't know were are we going to put the baby room.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2015 10:46PM by southernutah.

The last sentence about pregnant wife. That's exactly why my daughters mil wasn't allowed to move in. My daughter didn't want to spend her first pregnancy in turmoil because mil lived in the next bedroom.

They have a 4 bedroom house with 2 living rooms, and STILL refused to let mil move in. It wasn't about space or money, it was about mental health. My daughter needed calm, peace, and no turmoil. Letting mil move in would have made her miserable.

People don't just move in with you because they wish to -- someone let her in the door! I would tell her to start looking at private/independent schools for the next school year. Failing that, she can always substitute teach. She can also contact local school systems to see if they are running summer school. Help her to find an inexpensive apartment.

She will likely still be eligible for a pension when she hits a certain age (perhaps 62,) but it just won't be quite as big as it would have been otherwise.

Well my wife said yes, believe i was not happy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2015 10:58PM by southernutah.

Whenever she is in erashot, talk about how broke you are, how horrible your bills are, etc. be ready to say no for money requests.

Give her no privacy, and tell her the baby will be in her room.

Tell your wife that she is not allowed to invite live in guests. She needs practice saying "I can't say yes without talking to my husband" for any decisions that impact you.

If you had 1 minutes notice that she was moving in, you should have said no. It osn't too late. Tell her it isn't working.

Heresy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whenever she is in erashot, talk about how broke
> you are, how horrible your bills are, etc. be
> ready to say no for money requests.
>
> Give her no privacy, and tell her the baby will be
> in her room.
>
> Tell your wife that she is not allowed to invite
> live in guests. She needs practice saying "I can't
> say yes without talking to my husband" for any
> decisions that impact you.
>
> If you had 1 minutes notice that she was moving
> in, you should have said no. It osn't too late.
> Tell her it isn't working.


The thing is bother me most is she spending more time looking for a new car that looking for a job ( she was making $48000 a year as a teacher ), I point out that the state of you Utah is hiring for youth offender,however she has the attitude of I am too good for that. Last weekend she invited my wife to go to church with her, she declined tell her that she did not feel good. I though the whole situation was going to be temporal, the more I think about this, I have reach the conclusion that she will never leave.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2015 11:52PM by southernutah.

One more thing that dawned on me is there is the possibility that she was fired (lost tenure.) Regardless, at her age finding another full-time public school position likely will not happen unless she is in a critical shortage field (i.e Math, Special Ed, ESL, etc.) She might get a private school job if she has a reasonable rating/reference.

What a mess she's made of her life.

Don't let her do it to you. She needs to be on a short leash and get out of your house sooner not later. She has less sense than a typical six year old.

There is not tenure anymore in Utah, she is going to be using Obama-care in a few months, and she is super conservative

This is a tough situation and the critical issue is whether or not your wife can grow a backbone. Hopefully your wife will agree to a timeline, setting a date by which your MIL has to be out of the house. If your wife doesn't want to get her mother moving, I suggest you and your wife see a counsellor who may be able to help your wife understand that this situation is not sustainable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2015 10:23AM by annieg.

Has anyone in your household thought about setting ground rules and boundaries? Has it been made clear what the expectations are with regard to contributing to not only household chores, but also living expenses? Were any conditions made?

Sounds to me like you and your wife have a communication problem. Your wife just said yes without talking to you about and getting agreements to what y'all will and won't put up with?

The problem, I think, is not your MIL. It's lack of communication between the two people who own the house.

I suggest having a family meeting with all adults in the house, to lay down the rules (which you and your wife discuss and agree to ahead of time) and boundaries. Clarify what is her "share" of contribution to the house. Make it clear that, if she cannot play the "my house, my rules" game, she is on her own.

The Destroyer is in your house. Face that fact squarely and honestly. It should not be there.

What are you going to do? Are you going to save your kingdom and your marriage or........?

It will get worse before it ever gets better so get to the armory, strap on the chain mail and dragon shields.

Stand in front of the peasants and the enemy and state to the world just how its going to be. "You have three months to get a job and get out! I will not allow you to ruin our home and our marriage! At the end of three months I will remove you by force! I will remove you sooner if I see a pattern of inaction! "

A bit dramatic but I think you get the point.

^^^This is only a slight exaggeration.

Your wife is pregnant. There will be a lull in her employment, if she's even employed.
She will be at home full time with someone who has clearly declared her intent to rupture your marriage.
And you're fine with that???

Please read up on narcissistic mother in laws. You are about to see some textbook behavior.

I'm sorry about your kids. They will need a lot of counseling.

First, you and your wife need to see a counsellor. Decisions of this magnitude should not be made by just one member in the couple. Having parents move in is one of those decisions that both members of the couple should have veto power over (like moving or having children or other monumental life decisions). If you can't feel comfortable in your own home, then something has gone awry.

Second, a clock is now ticking. You can be polite and demand she leave, or take her to a bus stop, or whatever else. Either you:

A) Start charging her rent, in which case you establish a landlord/tenant relationship and you'll need an enforcement order (potentially) to get her to leave; in some cases, in-kind services (such as babysitting) have been considered to form such a relationship; or
B) She'll just continue freeloading

Unlike some states, Utah doesn't have (to the best of my knowledge) any rights of tenancy established for people that don't pay rent. Moreover, if *you're* renting, you're almost certainly in violation of the lease terms, which you can use as leverage to get her out of there.

She sounds toxic. Teachers, at that age, generally make fairly decent money.

Just a quick note here, in Utah, she's not a tenant, and you're not a landlord. She's a houseguest. She's in your house by your permission. There are no terms unless you set them and she agrees to abide by them. The law will not help you evict her under a theory of landlord/tenant. If you say, "Go," and your wife says, "No," there's no enforcement anything.

A landlord/tenant relationship is established by agreement, and it's characterized by control over property. A tenanancy is a property interest, and "property interest" means "right to exclude." Your MIL does not have a "right to exclude;" therefore, there is no tenancy.

If the owners of the house say "Leave," and are united, it's trespass that applies.

This discussion illustrates that this is a family problem, not a legal one. So, as others have suggested, the solution lies more in the direction of counseling than law.

I thought my post was clear that no tenant/landlord relationship is established where no rent or services are being provided. Apparently not, but permit me to clarify.

OP can try to get his MIL to do something in exchange for living there, including paying rent or whatever else. However, as soon as he does so, she'd likely be considered either a tenant or a household member. Right now, he can drop her at a bus stop and she'd have no legal recourse. As soon as he starts charging her, she becomes a tenant with legal rights. That can cause problems if he ever wants her to leave.

Should he elect *not* to do so, she is essentially freeloading. Which makes it all the more critical that he set out a time by which she will be gone, even if acquiring the requisite resources requires her to sell her plasma and pick up aluminum cans.

I'm also somewhat stunned that any bank would entertain extending a lcar oan to somebody without a job. I've never bought a new car in my life, let alone when I had other things (like a !@#damn place to live) that came well ahead of it.

Alpiner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought my post was clear that no
> tenant/landlord relationship is established where
> no rent or services are being provided. Apparently
> not, but permit me to clarify.
>
> OP can try to get his MIL to do something in
> exchange for living there, including paying rent
> or whatever else. However, as soon as he does so,
> she'd likely be considered either a tenant or a
> household member. Right now, he can drop her at a
> bus stop and she'd have no legal recourse. As soon
> as he starts charging her, she becomes a tenant
> with legal rights. That can cause problems if he
> ever wants her to leave.
>
> Should he elect *not* to do so, she is essentially
> freeloading. Which makes it all the more critical
> that he set out a time by which she will be gone,
> even if acquiring the requisite resources requires
> her to sell her plasma and pick up aluminum cans.
>
> I'm also somewhat stunned that any bank would
> entertain extending a lcar oan to somebody without
> a job. I've never bought a new car in my life, let
> alone when I had other things (like a !@#damn
> place to live) that came well ahead of it.

technically she is still employ by the school district until July

Having a child is a huge stress.

Having your mother in law (who worked very hard in the past to prevent your marriage from happening) is a huge stress.

I think that the longer that your mother in law is in your house the harder it will be for your marriage to survive.

You are already writing that you don't think that she will ever leave. You and your wife need to both realize that your mother in law's presence is a huge stress on your family at an already stressful time in a too small house that could eventually lead to the destruction of your marriage.

Hmm. Wasn't that what your mother in law always wanted. Perhaps she isn't as dumb as everyone thinks she is.

Well is too late now, well see what happen, she just got back from the bank and her apr for a new car is 12%, I told her not to buy a car until employment.

I know some private schools that are needing some replacement teachers. Their teachers are bailing (for good reasons)- and they may be be options for replacements such as you MIL. (not wanting to expose more of the details, other than to say my grand daughter was a student at that one of the charter schools here in Utah. She is Not going to be returning to that school and several of the best teachers that were there have also bailed. It is no secret that the school is in trouble and desperately trying to find teachers. It is possible your MIL could find employment with this school. She would have to move down to the southern end of the state though.

I just want to wish you luck because I predict this is going to get really bad before it gets better, which it may not--ever.

Did she sneak in? Whoever let her in should be crucified.


You'll never get rid of her with every one tippy toeing

around her. Yikes. I don't envy you. My mother in law

was invited to stay with us just temporarily and I was

ready to commit suicide by the time she left. She's a

nice lady but christ !!!!!!!! I worked all day, came home

and cleaned and did laundry and made dinner. She couldn't

even cook here? Puleese..... God god almighty I threw rose

petals from the porch to the car the day she left I was so

relieved .