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Posted by: bubbles23 ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 04:36PM

I have some serious problems going on in my church. I am a recent convert, in fact, today marks three months for me. I was taught before I joined that when you step into the waters of baptism that ALL of your sins, no matter the severity of them, are FORGIVEN, and that you have a clean slate and need to live up to all standards from there on out. I gave up EVERYTHING-drinking, smoking, sexual relations, drugs, etc. to be a member, fully believing that this church was the true church. Now I am requestioning everything and want to hear what previous members have to say about the matter. Then maybe it will slap some sense into me. My boyfriend and I had sexual relations a week before I was baptized.(emotions were very high after not having seen each other for a year) and then he was the one that baptized me and confirmed me a member of the church.I am still legally married. I did not go to my bishop about it, because I was told that 1.) I would be forgiven of all sins, no matter the severity of them once I was baptized and 2.) the bishop does not reside over you before you are baptized because you are not a member of the church. So me, still learning in the gospel, repented the best way I knew how, I prayed about it and asked for forgiveness, continously. My boyfriend and I also made a promise to NEVER do that again until we got married, and we have held true to that. However, I slipped to one member in my ward about me being married and doing what I did, etc. and they brought up worthiness and how I should tell my bishop. So, a month or so after I was baptized I found this out, and the next day I was in the bishop's office talking to him. He informed me that I was not to partake of the sacrament, and that further steps might need to be taken.(might have to get rebaptized, calling might be revoked, etc. etc) Well me, being me, did not understand why I was having to re-repent for something that should have been forgiven at baptism, so I went to the stake president ghoping for clarity. He said that I was right, that I shouldn't be repenting of something that happened before baptism, and I offered to give him details, but he said he didn't need them, because no matter how severe the sin was, I was forgiven. After my bishop and stake president communicated, my bishop told him everything(even though the stake president told me that he didn't need to know the details) and then my stake president sided with the bishop on the matter. And I was continuing to not partake of the sacrament. I am now torn. I don't know what to do with this matter, and although my bishop wants to "move forward" with the matter, I feel like I cannot just "move forward." So I guess if someone could please give me their thoughts and opinions about this, and maybe some insight, it would be much appreciated. Also, can I take this higher? If so, who would I go to next? Thanks for all of your help.

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Posted by: tapirsaddle ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 04:47PM

You came to the right place!

Sounds like you've already figured out that what mormons say they believe, and what they say and do are two different things. Their treatment of you is absurd and hateful.

Pay attention to the red flags. Don't deny your gut and your intellect.

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Posted by: diablo ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 04:50PM

Think about what you are doing.

You are discussing your sex life with a sexually oppressed stranger with questionable motives. Not only that, you are feeling guilty about it and you want his forgiveness.

That is so wrong on so many levels. You must know by now the cult is evil and their intentions are to manipulate you and use your emotions to twist you into a pretzel. Where's your boyfriend at in all this? Tell him to grow a pair and stick up for you.

These guys are a bunch Satan worshipping perverts.

Flee~!

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Posted by: LEELA ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 05:08PM

What they say and what they do are two differant things. and u can believe me what ever they say or do will be to their benefit. You felt guilty for what u did & u repented. Dont give them any more power they will use it to make u feel even quiltier. You are never good enough to those people. I was born & raised in it & even as a kid saw hypocracy. LEAVE BEFORE they get their tentecle in too deep! More of us r still "purging" them out of us!

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Posted by: scarecrowfromoz ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 05:10PM

You said you were a recent convert. You didn't say whether you were active (or semi-active) in another church before, or came in with no religious background. If the former, then you probably realize the Morg does it backward from most other Christian religions. They believe that no one is "worthy" to take communion (Morg sacrament) but they open it to anyone, and believe that it (not baptism) gives you a new start.

In the Morg, they believe that only members are worthy, and that you have to be "worthy" and if not, you have to not take, the exact opposite of the way other religions do it. Not taking it results in gossip and speculation among Morg members of why you are not "worthy" to take sacrament.

RUN, not walk, as fast as you can from the this Cult. If you choose to stay in, then take it every week, no matter what the Bishop says.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 05:12PM

Congratulations! In just three short months, you learned that there's no such thing as the "gospel" or rules or inspiration or priesthood or vaild baptism.

You've also learned that you're never going to be good enough because you can't figure out the rules and because you can't figure out the rules, you can't follow them. And because of that, you'll never be good enough.

Oh, and it has NOTHING to do with that guy named Jesus.

I really suggest you get away from these people and fast. Because at the end of the day, they just want your money and want you to clean their toilets. And then to feel really bad about yourself. Their mission is nearly accomplished. RUN!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2013 05:13PM by Devoted Exmo.

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Posted by: Bubbles23 ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 05:21PM

I was not a member of any other church enforce I joined this one, so everything was new to me. I just am completely lost about everything that's happening. Can you go higher then stake president??

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Posted by: Bubbles23 ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 05:21PM

**before

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 05:30PM

No, you can't go to anyone else to discuss what happend. You can't even write a letter or try to communicate with those about your stake presidents level. You will be scolded for trying to do that.

Trust me, these are not people who have your best interests at heart.

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Posted by: marriedtoexmo ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 05:22PM

Your 'worthiness' is between you and God, not some part-time Bishop...I can't stand the fact that these guys think they are some kind of intermediaries between you and God...If this doesn't feel right to you, you know where the door is.

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Posted by: crom ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 05:23PM

The truth? The so called church has only one truth, obey. They are maddeningly contradictory on all other doctrine.

Everyone holding the priesthood and a title believes he has "authority" over you. TSCC is big on authority. So in short he can tell you to do anything he wants. Even if it's wrong.

Read up on the case of Norman Hancock. He was excommunicated for something he claims not to have done, and his stake president had no evidence against him, in fact witnesses the evidence was with Brother Hancock.

http://mormon-alliance.org/casereports/volume3/part1/v3p1c05.htm



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2013 05:33PM by crom.

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Posted by: Senoritalamanita ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 05:25PM

Bubbles23,

In answer to your question:

I don't think you can take it any higher, and if there was some magic way you could, the answer would be the same as the Bishop's reply, when he says to "go forward", which is his pathetic way of really telling you to "get over it".

It's standard operating procedure for church members to squeal to the bishop about the sins of others, or to urge you to come clean ... even if you have placed your full trust in LDS friends in a confidential conversation.

It's standard operating procedure for your bishop and Stake President to grill you about your sins, shame you, and punish you by taking away the sacrament. It's a type of subtle shunning, too, when others see you passing the sacrament tray to person next to you, without partaking of the bread and water, yourself.

In 99% of Christian churches this practice is unheard of. No one would ever deny a soul their chance to commune with God, by taking away the symbol of Christ's last supper from them.

And in the majority of churches, repentence through the washing away of sins (baptism) does mean just that -- your sins are wiped away.

If you want to find the truth, look no further than your own heart.

Do you really think you are a despicable person because you sleep with a man you love? Is drinking coffee a sin in the eyes of God.

You are the captain of your own soul. Nobody else. Only you can decide what is morally right and wrong.

You are very welcome here. Study and read the experiences of those have been in your shoes. I wish you well.

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Posted by: Raptor Jesus ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 05:33PM

Nobody else needs to know anything else.

What kind of a god would worry about what two people do that clearly harms no one else?

How would that ever harm this deity?

But, you now have a human construct that feels that several men have the "right and authority" to ask about your personal sexual business as well as the right and authority to tell you when "god has forgiven you."

And, again, for what?

Something that harmed nobody?

This church wants power over you as well as your money. What are you getting in return other than guilt and unnecessary stress?

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Posted by: Ex-CultMember ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 05:37PM

Welcome!

Glad you aren't brainwashed enough yet to not think for yourself. This is the first of many troublesome things you are going to come across in the LDS church. Asking for advice from ex-Mormons on this matter is an interesting thing you are doing. We no longer believe in the claims or "truthfullness" of Mormonism so you probably won't get the answer the church wants you to get.

The LDS Church is NOT true. I would suggest you do some INDEPENDENT research on the this religion before you get totally wrapped up in it. I resigned from the church. Grew up in it served a mission and the whole shebang so you can trust what I am saying. I HIGHLY suggest you read the following sources, in the following order so that you are FULLY INFORMED.

1)http://packham.n4m.org/tract.htm
2)http://mormonthink.com/personalstories/A_Letter_to_a_CES_Director.pdf
3) www.mormonthink.com

Mormons will tell you NOT to read these "anti-Mormon" websites. I will tell you that these contain reliable information from Mormon and former Mormons who know what they are talking about. We will tell you to study BOTH sides. The Mormons will not. Who do you think is more trustworthy?

Good luck and let us know if you have further questions!

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Posted by: S. Tissue Trotter ( )
Date: June 24, 2013 09:39AM

This is intended just to improve the three links provided by Ex-CultMember, but looks like it will end up at the wrong place in the thread. Oh, well.

http://packham.n4m.org/tract.htm

http://mormonthink.com/personalstories/A_Letter_to_a_CES_Director.pdf

http://mormonthink.com

When you provide a link, you can't have any other chacters touching it, like a "1)" before or a period after.

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Posted by: jiminycricket ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 05:58PM

Do you believe Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus in the first vision in 1820?

Do you believe Joseph Smith got the gold plates from a hill and translated them like the pictures the missionaries showed you, - you know, sitting at a desk with the plates in front of him?

Do you believe the Book of Mormon was written by ancient inhabitants of this continent, that it contains the fullness of the gospel and is the literal word of God?

If you answer yes to these questions, then the missionaries did not show you the true story. They did not show you how the BoM was created - it's a product of 19th century fiction.

*******

The sales material that is prepared for the missionaries to deliver to you, has been prepared by the church headquarters in Salt Lake City. That material will NEVER tell the true facts of the church. Neither will the LDS church's website. Nearly all the missionaries are in the dark of the actual facts and if they did have all the facts and told the truth, nobody would join the church.

I've been a member (still am for family reasons, but I'm 100% inactive) for almost 6 decades. My siblings are TBM, my parents were, my grandparents were - all my relatives were clear back 5 generations. I just learned of the truth about my faith, my religion of birth, the one I served a 2 year mission for. I stumbled onto the website MormonThink.com last December. I read, and read and could not stop reading. I am not a history buff. But, I kept finding that EVERYTHING I had been taught growing up had either been changed, altered, wasn't true or was so problematic that the simple comparison of the TRUE HISTORY of the LDS church compared to what I had been taught told a completely non-faith promoting story. The church is not true. Wow I said it to you. It's easy now to say it.

I defended Joseph Smith my entire life. I grew to admire and love him. But, I didn't know the facts. The church is not restored, and Joseph Smith was not what the LDS claim. I could go on and on. It's a tough reality to learn. You need to study and read from MormonThink.com and learn for yourself. Then you can move on.

Most of us at RFM have had to deal with learning the true history versus what the Mormon church actually teaches. The missionary sales pitch is the same one that I gave to hundreds on my mission. The same missionary work was performed by my siblings, parents and grandparents. There are tons of missionaries in my extended family. We all taught the same stuff. But it is easy to prove false - very easy. Once you start to see it the whole church system falls apart. Like I said, you just compare "true historical" facts with what we are doing today - and the church is toast.

My advice is NOT to talk to a bishop, stake president or any of those guys. They only have power over you if you believe the Mormon story - which isn't what it purports to be anyway. Once you realize that, then you have all the power to make decisions for yourself.

Do yourself a favor. From the questions I first posted here, look at them again and discover the truth for yourself.

Watch the videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ac_fLUHiBw&feature=youtu.be
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn1iGvXU0dI

My father is nearly 90 and recently went through these videos and much of the material on MormonThink.com. He started last Christmas with me. He and I are finished with the church. It was devastating to learn. But, we are moving on and my father really suffers with all his kids (but me) in the Mormon church. They've turned on him like he's a Devil. They are pushing him out of their lives by shunning him and pointing fingers of hate. He's so easy going and likeable to everyone. It's so sad to see the reaction of family members. The LDS church is highly effective in brainwashing you into their church. Most Mormons shun and judge because they've been taught that if you leave, you've been deceived by the Devil.

RFM is the best place to be, because we don't sugar coat anything and we tell the truth plain and simple and can guide you to the right source material to get the true facts. Keep asking us questions. We will NOT lead you astray. The truth is liberating.

Be good. Read. Watch the videos. Ask us questions.

Good luck.

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Posted by: Leah ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 05:58PM

Your reasoning is correct but Mormonism is a mindf*ck, not a religion.
You made a serious mistake by getting involved with these people and it will Not get better from now on.

Mormon leaders do Not have any special authority from Jesus Christ.

The Book of Mormon is a proven fraud:
DNA shows that the American Indians are of Asian descend, they did Not come from the Holy Land.
There are NO Nephites or Lamanites or Jaredites,these people only existed in the imaginations of Joseph Smith.

My advise would be to stop letting Mormons tell you how to live your life.

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 06:06PM

You say you are "...still learning in the gospel..."

You must know that when mormons speak of the "Gospel" it's mostly a bunch of made up Joseph Smith stuff, not the Christian gospel. They just don't know that......

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Posted by: smith ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 06:32PM

If it makes you feel any better Joseph Smith had sex with multiple women, few of which were only 14. He married women who were married to other men, and he sent them on missions to he could marry their wives. If you really think about it, you were only following the prophet!

The whole thing is made up, and as long as you love yourself why would you care what an out-of-touch bishop says anyway?

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Posted by: Atomized ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 07:07PM

The TRUTH is you've joined an orginization that will Psychologicaly rape you. This is your initiation to the spiritual equivalent of North Korea. Do the research... don't be lazy. Find out the truth yourself. Look at everything.

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Posted by: The Oncoming Storm - bc ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 07:20PM

One of the big problems with the church is it strips away your self esteem with shame. You are seeing the beginning of that. It really frustrates me that the church publicly shames people for private things - and not taking the sacrament feels like there is a big spotlight of shame on you.

Technically you probably should have said something in your baptismal interview (with the 19 year old kid that interviewed you.) Then if you were baptized with that being disclosed it should be all gone. If you lied in your interview or did not understand that it should have been brought up then technically the bishop could be right according to their rules - but that still doesn't make it OK or right. If you keep your eyes open you will quickly learn that MANY things in the church are not as they were represented to you before you joined. For example, nearly everything you learned in the dialogue of the Joseph Smith story is very different than what was originally recorded as happening and has been altered to be more feasible and "faith promoting".

I don't know the reasons why you joined but I invite you to further do your research to learn more about the church. From the fairly extensive research I have done the links I'm going to give you are extremely accurate and correct - granted they have some bias against the church, but the information is very accurate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ac_fLUHiBw
- Top 10 Mormon problems explained. This does a great job of reviewing some of the major issues to help confirm - yea, the church really is a bunch of bs.

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/
- Reading the details of how Joseph Smith hurt the women he married galvanizes me like nothing else. Don't miss Zina, Lucy Walker, Helen Kimball, and Emily & Eliza among others.

I have a lot more links I could give you but that's a good place to start.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2013 07:24PM by The Oncoming Storm - bc.

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Posted by: Leah ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 07:36PM

Be aware that anything you confide in a morg "leader" will be passed on to others - there is NO confidentiality in Mormonism.

You can be reasonably sure that by now all your problems will have ben discussed - under the guise of helping you. Mormonism can be incredibly destructive to people.
RUN !!!

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Posted by: The 1st FreeAtLast ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 08:28PM

...the teenage servant girl who worked in his home, Fanny Alger, the wife of church member Windsor Lyon, teenager Lucy Walker (after he sent her father far away on a mission after the mother, Lydia, died), and plenty of other females.

The historical evidence is clear that JS was a serial adulterer, yet he was "exalted" in the Celestial Kingdom after death, according to the LDS Church. So, you can have all the sex you want and not worry about your "exaltation"!

In the case of young Fanny, eventually Joseph Smith's first and only legal wife, Emma, would not allow the girl to work in the Smith home, because the girl "was unable to conceal the consequences of her celestial relation with the prophet" (ref. http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/02-FannyAlger.htm). A swelling womb would be virtually impossible to hide after the first trimester.

On January 27, 1844, JS' seventh polygamous wife, Sylvia Lyon, wife of Windsor Lyon, told her daughter, Josephine, that she "was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith" (see the last paragraph at http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/08-SylviaSessionsLyon.htm).

After JS sent John Walker to the eastern U.S., obstensibly on a church mission, he "invited" young Lucy to live in his home. Lucy later wrote: “In the year 1842 President Joseph Smith sought an interview with me, and said, ‘I have a message for you, I have been commanded of God to take another wife, and you are the woman.’ My astonishment knew no bounds. This announcement was indeed a thunderbolt to me."

JS pressured the teenage girl to secretly became his plural wife and with her father far away and no other person in Nauvoo, IL to help her, she relented. She wrote: “Emma Smith was not present and she did not consent to the marriage; she did not know anything about it at all.”

Of her husband-wife relationship with JS, which was illegal, according to Illinois State marriage laws, Lucy said: “It was not a love matter, so to speak, in our affairs, -at least on my part it was not, but simply the giving up of myself as a sacrifice[.]" In other words, she allowed Mormonism's founding "prophet" and church president to have his way with her.

The quotes come from http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/23-LucyWalker.htm as well as from historian Todd Compton's ground-breaking 1998 book, "In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith" (ref. http://signaturebooks.com/2010/02/in-sacred-loneliness-the-plural-wives-of-joseph-smith/).

Here's more related info. to set your mind at ease: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,445101,926278#msg-926278

Hopefully, you're realizing that Mormonism is a fraud. Here's what Sarah Pratt, wife of Mormon apostle Orson Pratt said: "Everybody knew in Nauvoo that the Partridge girls lived with Joseph [Smith] a long time before he got his celebrated revelation about celestial marriage, dated July 12, 1843 [it became Section 132 of the LDS Church's Doctrine and Covenants]. The Partridge girls were very good-natured. After Joseph's death one was sealed to Brigham and the other to Apostle Amasa Lyman. Joseph's taste was of very large dimensions, he loved them old and young, pretty and homely. He sometimes seduced mothers to keep them quiet about his connection with their daughters."

(See p. 54 at http://olivercowdery.com/smithhome/1886WWyl.htm#pg061a)

"Joseph [Smith] did not content himself with his spiritual brides, who surrendered themselves to him 'for Christ's sake.' There lived on the Mississippi, near the steamboat landing, a certain young woman, a Mrs. White, very pretty and always very fashionably dressed. She was in the habit of being very hospitable to the captains of the steamboats [she was a prostitute]... Joseph was one of her customers and used to contribute to the expenses of her establishment."

(Page 55 of the same link)

"You hear often that Joseph had no polygamous offspring. The reason of this is very simple. Abortion was practiced on a large scale in Nauvoo. Dr. John C. Bennett, the evil genius of Joseph, brought this abomination into a scientific system. He showed to my husband and me the instruments with which he used to 'operate for Joseph.' There was a house in Nauvoo, 'right across the flat,' about a mile and a-half from the town, a kind of hospital. They sent the women there, when they showed signs of celestial consequences. Abortion was practiced regularly in this house." (Page 59, same link)

"I [Sarah Pratt] have told you [author Wilhelm Ritter von Wymetal] that the prophet Joseph [Smith] used to frequent houses of ill-fame [bordellos]. Mrs. White, a very pretty and attractive woman, once confessed to me that she made a business of it to be hospitable to the captains of the Mississippi steamboats. She told me that Joseph had made her acquaintance very soon after his arrival in Nauvoo, and that he had visited her dozens of times. My husband (Orson Pratt) could not be induced to believe such things of his prophet. Seeing his obstinate incredulity, Mrs. White proposed to Mr. Pratt and myself to put us in a position where we could observe what was going on between herself and Joseph the prophet. We, however, declined this proposition. You have made a mistake in the table of contents of your book in calling this woman "Mrs. Harris." Mrs. [G. W.] Harris was a married lady, a very great friend of mine. When Joseph had made his dastardly attempt on me, I went to Mrs. Harris to unbosom my grief to her. To my utter astonishment, she said, laughing heartily: "How foolish you are! I don't see anything so horrible in it. Why, I AM HIS MISTRESS SINCE FOUR YEARS!"

"Next door to my house was a house of bad reputation. One single woman lived there, not very attractive. She used to be visited by people from Carthage whenever they came to Nauvoo. Joseph used to come on horseback, ride up to the house and tie his horse to a tree, many of which stood before the house. Then he would enter the house of the woman from the back. I have seen him do this repeatedly.

"Joseph Smith, the son of the prophet, and president of the re-organized Mormon church, paid me a visit, and I had a long talk with him. I saw that he was not inclined to believe the truth about his father, so I said to him: 'You pretend to have revelations from the Lord. Why don't you ask the Lord to tell you what kind of a man your father really was?' He answered: 'If my father had so many connections with women, where is the progeny?' I said to him: 'Your father had mostly intercourse with married women, and as to single ones, Dr. Bennett was always on hand, when anything happened.'

It was in this way that I became acquainted with Dr. John C. Bennett. When my husband went to England as a missionary, he got the promise from Joseph that I should receive provisions from the tithing-house. Shortly afterward Joseph made his propositions to me and they enraged me so that I refused to accept any help from the tithing-house or from the bishop. Having been always very clever and very busy with my needle, I began to take in sewing for the support of myself and children, and succeeded soon in making myself independent. When Bennett came to Nauvoo, Joseph brought him to my house, stating that Bennett wanted some sewing done, and that I should do it for the doctor. I assented and Bennett gave me a great deal of work to do. He knew that Joseph had his plans set on me; Joseph made no secret of them before Bennett, and went so far in his impudence as to make propositions to me in the presence of Bennett, his bosom friend. Bennett, who was of a sarcastic turn of mind, used to come and tell me about Joseph to tease and irritate me. One day they came both, Joseph and Bennett, on horseback to my house. Bennett dismounted, Joseph remained outside. Bennett wanted me to return to him a book I had borrowed from him. It was a so-called doctor-book. I had a rapidly growing little family and wanted to inform myself about certain matters in regard to babies, etc., -- this explains my borrowing that book. While giving Bennett his book, I observed that he held something in the left sleeve of his coat. Bennett smiled and said: 'Oh, a little job for Joseph; one of his women is in trouble.' Saying this. he took the thing out of his left sleeve. It was a pretty long instrument of a kind I had never seen before. It seemed to be of steel and was crooked at one end. I heard afterwards that the operation had been performed; that the woman was very sick, and that Joseph was very much afraid that she might die, but she recovered.

"Bennett was the most intimate friend of Joseph for a time. He boarded with the prophet. He told me once that Joseph had been talking with him about his troubles with Emma, his wife. 'He asked me,' said Bennett, smilingly, 'what he should do to get out of the trouble?' I said, 'This is very simple. GET A REVELATION that polygamy is right, and all your troubles will be at an end.'

"The only 'wives' of Joseph that lived in the Mansion House were the Partridge girls. This is explained by the fact that they were the servants in the hotel kept by the prophet. But when Emma found out that Joseph went to their room, they had to leave the house." (Pages 60-62, same link as above.)

If you want to learn many more 'faith'-busting historical facts about JS and Mormonism, the ones the LDS Church did not tell you about in order to mislead you, go to http://www.utlm.org/navtopicalindex.htm

You're an adult and your sexual life is your business, not that of duped Mormon priesthood leaders. You're lucky that you've found out that Mormonism is based on propaganda (whitewash). I suggest you terminate your membership in the dishonest religious organization by resigning, and get on with your life.

Best wishes!

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Posted by: amos2 ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 08:54PM

It's an abusive sect/cult.

It makes no difference if you "sinned" before or after baptism because "sin" is a fake.
They're just taking advantage of emotional vulnerabilities.

The bishop and stake president are charlatan quacks practicing fake faith healing from sin and mental malpractice.

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Posted by: orange ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 08:58PM

We are just another species of primate, with an enlarged evolved brain. The evidence is just to great to deny. Plus, all the "holy" books from every religion has already been deconstructed to show they are false and just made up by man.

Now, you can run yourself ragged by accepting calling after calling until you are dead and also go bankrupt by paying their tithing just to gain entrance into their temple or you can see life for what it is...random evolution of DNA with no influence of deities.

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Posted by: intjsegry ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 09:14PM

What strikes me about your story, is that you are very intelligent to see the dichotmony between what the missionaries (or whomever) told you before baptism, what the ward member told you afterwards, what the bishop told you, and what the stake president told you.

That conflicting evidence tells me that they don't know what is really true. Doesn't it to you? SHouldn't they? I mean, if they are chosen of god, wouldn't they know?

Do you see how contrived and silly it seems? To be told that immersion in water will clean a sin (which is, by the way, a natural human action and expression of love), but it is about the timing? That is just silly. How does one week make a difference? how does telling your bishop make a difference over just admitting it to yourself?

You are too smart for their manipulation. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE believe what people tell you here... it is a cult.

If you tell members, the bishop, the missionaries, or anyone you are on this site asking questions they will tell you that we are all sinners, angry, and bad people and that the knowledge we share with you is ANTI-Mormon. This is false... we are not all sinners, liars and angry. Many of us lost families, loved ones, and friends when we left the church. Why would we give those things up just to "Sin?" The answer is simple. We didn't. We left because we educated ourselves, looked at the things that the church was NOT telling us (most of us for our entire lives- I, for example, am related to Brigham Young and George Cannon). We found out that Joseph Smith was a pedophile and an adulterer, and a crook who had previously been tried in a court of law for taking people's money in exchange for his "seeing" or "treasure hunting."

I applaud you for not just bowing to what your bishop/stake president said. That is wonderful. Keep that level head, never let them make you feel guilty for things that make you happy and for expressing your love... never. Read the REAL history, and make up your own mind. Never let them make up your mind for you.

Your mind and heart are you greatest gifts- don't give them over to a church who just wants your money. Please spend some time on this site, researching the truth about the church's history- the stuff they didn't tell you.

http://mormonthink.com/

This site was put together by people who grew up in the church, many of whom still attended while putting this together.... Please, don't loose yourself to them. We welcome you here with ANY questions you have!

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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 09:23PM

bubbles23 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so I went to
> the stake president hoping for clarity. He said
> that I was right, that I shouldn't be repenting of
> something that happened before baptism, and I
> offered to give him details, but he said he didn't
> need them, because no matter how severe the sin
> was, I was forgiven.

Wow, now THAT'S different. Kudos to the SP

> After my bishop and stake
> president communicated, my bishop told him
> everything(even though the stake president told me
> that he didn't need to know the details) and then
> my stake president sided with the bishop on the
> matter.

Ah, so it was business as usual after all. I withdraw my kudos.

> And I was continuing to not partake of the
> sacrament. I am now torn. I don't know what to do
> with this matter, and although my bishop wants to
> "move forward" with the matter, I feel like I
> cannot just "move forward." So I guess if someone
> could please give me their thoughts and opinions
> about this, and maybe some insight, it would be
> much appreciated. Also, can I take this higher? If
> so, who would I go to next? Thanks for all of your
> help.

Welcome to the Church of WE CONTROL YOU TOTALLY.

In Mormonism you are NOTHING other than what the leaders say
you are. Often they are easier on new members because so many
have had enough after a month or so and leave, that they try
to ease your transition into total, judgmental control.

In your case they started treating you like a regular member
right away. Congratulations!

They did tell you that any sex outside of marriage was "the
sin next to murder" didn't they?

From the Church's website:

http://www.lds.org/manual/book-of-mormon-video-guide/chapter-14-alma-39?lang=eng

"Scripture Activity

"Read Alma 39:4–7 with the class and have them find the three
most serious sins in the eyes of the Lord. Why would the Lord
rank sexual immorality next to murder in seriousness? (Student
response.) Have students read verses 1–3. What were some of
Corianton’s sins? What was the most serious sin Corianton
committed? (Sexual sin.) Since God ranks sexual sins next to
murder, why do you think so many people commit them?"



Did you rat out your boyfriend?
If he had sex with you a week before baptizing you and you are
still legally married then he COULD qualify for excommunication.

Welcome to the nut-house.

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Posted by: Checker of minor facts ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 10:33PM

This is insane! Such a perfect example of how false and untrue the whole mormon scam is. The entire church leadership doesn't know what they don't know! They can't agree on anything the first go-around and then their whole doctrine and pretend rules contradict themselves.
If this episode doesn't crystal clear prove to you that mormonism is false, nothing will. Now take a deep breath and think about it.

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Posted by: cubsfan ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 10:56PM

The mormon baptism is a bunch of poo poo. I am an ex-mormon that was baptized when I was 8 years old just like all the other obedient children, despite my parents being jack mormon, my brothers and I were all baptized. I don't know why, but I am still really ticked about this. Now, I am a Christian and understand more than I ever have before. All you have to do is pray and ask for forgiveness and you are forgiven. Baptism for the remission of sins is useless, cause only Jesus can forgive. Mormons baptise for remission of sins, just like John the Baptist did. When Jesus came He baptized by the Spirit. Trust your instincts about this cult and GET OUT while you still have hope or you will be the one in church that bares your testimony every month "I know this church is true, joseph smith blah blah blah. Any ex mormon knows the so called testimony. Don't be manipulated by the bishop and the stake president, just pray to God for forgiveness. Go to a Bible believing church, talk to a pastor or teacher there

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Posted by: spwdone ( )
Date: June 23, 2013 11:49PM

Oh bubbles 23, just run, as fast as you can, away. These men do not have your best interest at heart and obviously don't understand what the the so called church preaches to converts, no big surprise.

Also, it doesn't sound as though your boyfriend is exactly living the life. Perhaps he has some issues with the church he should explore as well. The LDS church doesn't appear to be a good fit for either of you, from what you write.

I was a missionary and had a similar situation with a convert where the Bishop was trying to hold a convert accountable for actions that happened before her baptism. At the time I was a true believer and it infuriated me.

I can be pretty assertive and I got into it with that Bishop pretty severely (he was an ass!), quoting scriptures, missionary discussions and General Conference talks. He finally backed down, but it was not pretty. I got transferred the next month and I heard from the convert later that the persecution continued after I left. She ended up leaving the church and I couldn't blame her, even though I was active at the time. It's a very patriarchal organization and what they say is NOT the same as what they do.

This is only the beginning of a very, very miserable time if you don't get out, fast. It's not you, it's them.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: June 24, 2013 12:21AM

The main take-away that I get from your post is that you are tying yourself up in knots chasing after other people's approval -- the bishop's approval, the SP's approval, God's approval, and possibly your boyfriend's approval.

I am going to propose this to you -- maybe you are okay just the way you are. Maybe you are a normal, fallible human being who has a basic idea of right and wrong, and a working idea of just what substances are good and healthy for you and which are not. Maybe you can make a few mistakes here and there, but get things sorted out over time.

Why should you have to convert to please everyone else? Why aren't they falling all over themselves trying to please you, or to make you feel okay, happy, accepted, and loved?

I'm going to advise you to step away from all this nonsense. Take the time to prove to yourself that the church is NOT what it claims to be (the Mormon Think website is a great place to start.) And quit caring quite so much what a bunch of men in white shirts and suits think of you.

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Posted by: ontheDownLow ( )
Date: June 24, 2013 08:36AM

bubbles23, correct me if I am wrong, but did you say that your boyfriend in which you had sex with recently before your baptism, baptized you? If so, that is really messed up on your boyfriend's part.

Bubbles23, I wish I ran into this website when I was in my teens or sooner. Everyone above has given great comments to you. Read them all carefully.

The bottomline, the LDS church is not true at all. You don't have to answer to them. But you have to do your research to understand and know that the church is false. We can't put that in your head for you. I am a former missionary and current member of the church (40 years), until I help my family get out, I will pull my own records on MY terms, and not on theirs.

They have no right to play with your heart and mind, and steal your money and time through offerings and tithes.

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Posted by: Anonymous User ( )
Date: June 24, 2013 08:39AM

Still legally married...
Boyfriend...
Have sex with Boyfriend who them baptises you...
Bishop and Stake President disagree then agree...

I'm calling BS

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