I keep hearing about the highly intimate sexual questions bishops ask people during interviews and proceedings. I have asked and I have been told this does not happen. i have read and they are not even supposed to talk about masturbation. You were in the church for years. Did this happen, does it still happen and does the church heirarchy know this still goes on. Is this something that a person who has a relative in the Mormon Church should worry about happening to them?

. . . personal privacy in both advocating and asking intimate questions regarding individual members' sex lives that are absolutely none of their business.

For a good example of this Mormon-Church disrepect of personal space and boundaries, read Deborah Laake's book, "Secret Ceremonies," where she writes about how some of her LDS bishops engaged in inappropriate private interrogation of her:

("Secret Grief: Deborah Laake went from arrogance to talk shows to misery after publishing her indictment of Mormon practices, 'Secret Ceremonies.' And then she killed herself," by Terry Green Sterling, 27 October 2000, at: http://www.salon.com/2000/10/27/laake/)



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2013 08:55PM by steve benson.

I understand Laake and I will read the book, but according to Salon, (the quote that was given to me), she was mentally unstable or ill. Studies show (not trying to offend anyone) that religion attracts mentally unstable people.
So the bishop asks these extremely intimate sexual questions during the interview and the stake president also asks these questions and if there is a disciplinary council the whole council asks these questions. And this can be over anything from masturbation to sexual exploitation of minors, repeating not only anything sexual intimacies, sexual deviancies but the reactions of the other parties involved without their consent or knowledge. And this is both men and women but for the more part women. This happens now and in the past, correct? And that church heirarchy has known about this since at least 2000 (the year of the book and article). Does anyone know if these bishops, stake presidents and councils have been disiplined themselves for this or is it accepted as normal practice and if so, why? What could possibly be the reasoning behind doing this and for mormons to accept this "voyeuristic mentality". Obvioulsy, it would seem that people in the ward are encouraging this type of purging for some unknown reason.
I'm not trying to put anyone on the spot.Did the second counselor speak up? Doesn't/Didn't anyone say, this is sexual abuse?

In a previous thread, RfM poster "tombs1" wrote:

“When I was about 18 and geting ready to go on a mission, my Never-Mo dad brought home a book called ‘Secret Ceramonies’ by Deborah Laake. In it she described the Temple ceremony in detail and talked about how Mormon culture forced her into a loveless marriage and how divorce and being different ostracized her and took a huge toll on her mental health.

"Ironically, the little bit that I read prepared me for the Temple far better than any Church source could have. I also remember being told that Mormon women threw a fit about her talking about the Temple when the book was released in 1993.

"Has anyone ever read that book or met Deborah Laake?

"Another irony is that when I read part of it I said, ‘[S]he is saying things that shouldn't be talked about.’ My father than encouraged me to ‘run not walk away from any organization that tries to tell people what to read and what not to.’ I than had almost the exact same thing happen to me just months latter in the MTC that happend to Ms. Laake in the book.

“I know it is an older book, but if anyone can find it I encourage you to read it.”

("’Secret Ceramonies" by Deborah Laake,’” posted by “tombs1,” on “Recovery from Mormonism” board, 7 January 2011, 2:16 p.m.)
_____


A family member of Deborah, RfM poster “Jewel in the Desert,” responded:

"Deborah Laake was my aunt and it's interesting reading about her here. Steve Benson wrote a very accurate description of Deborah. She was one of those 'high maintanance' kind of people but she had such charisma and an infectious laugh. I miss her and wish I could have understood and appreciated her better while she was still here."

(“Re: ‘”Secret Ceremonies” by Deborah Laake,”’ posted by “Jewel in the Desert,” on “Recovery from Mormonism” bulletin board, 28 January 2011, 21:23 p.m.)
_____


Deborah was a valued friend of mine and, yes, since it has been mentioned here on RfM, she did commit suicide.

She had previously undergone a double mastectomy, which greatly drained her. When she got the bad news that her cancer had returned, she was determined not to fight a losing battle with a disease that would undoubtedly wrack her body once again; so, she returned to her family home in the Charleston, South Carolina, and on her own terms quietly took her life with a pill overdose.

I knew Deborah as a gifted writer and editor for the weekly alternative newspaper in Phoenix, the "New Times." Her prose was poetic and blunt, direct and elegant, descriptive and devastating. When she wanted to and felt she had to, she took no prisoners.

Deborah’s hallmark was no-holds-barred/no-nonsense honesty. Indeed, that was what impressed me most about her. Like many of us, she started out as a Mormon product but eventually woke up, planted herself for battle and rebelled against repression. What you saw was what you got.

Like “Jewel of the Desert” noted, Deborah was “high maintenance” but for those who loved her, it was worth the effort to help maintain her. She was also high energy and high truth--not to mention creative, thoughtful, impulsive, focused, bold and crazy, all in a great sort of way. She will always be missed.

When Deborah's book, "Secret Ceremonies," came out on her experiences in Mormonism, it sent shock waves through the Mormon Cult and beyond, with its then-relatively rare and explicit unveiling of Mormonism's secret temple rituals. It was unapologetic in description and language about Mormonism and the personal toll that it took on her but it is written with understanding, insight, forthrightness and a sense of refreshing and truthful abandon. I have a personally-autographed copy of it in my home library. I recommend it highly--at least for those who can handle it. It is gut-wrenchingly direct, revealing and powerful, spoken in Deborah's expressively truthful way: open and in-your-face, yet done with grace. No wonder the Mormons went ballistic when she lobbed it their way. It is not for the faint of heart, the easily offended or those in denial. In short, most Mormons would hate it.

Deborah made the rounds on the national talk show circuit, where she was asked why she allowed herself to be excommunicated rather than leave a religion that she saw as poisoned by detestable patriarchal abuse. She replied that she stayed in for her LDS family, not wanting to hurt them.

Deborah interviewed me once during the sorry saga of eventually-impeached and -convicted Arizona Mormon governor Evan Mecham, when I was going after him tooth and tong in my cartoons for being a racist, uninformed, embarrassing idiot. I was still LDS at the time and Deborah helped me, in her brutally honest and forthright way, to recognize my own lingering blind spots, for which I will always be indebted to her.

Deborah was a high-voltage, vivacious person with a loud, infectious, wide-open-mouthed laugh that carried far as she would fling her head back and let loose. She had a certain flamboyant flair about her, liking to wear red dresses with matching high heels.

When Deborah was recovering from her breast cancer surgery, I visited her at her small, simply-decorated but stylish home in Phoenix, where she tucked her legs up under her as she sat on the couch, her head wrapped in a colorful scarf to cover her chemo-induced baldness. In quiet moments like those, she was thoughtful and gracious, with perceptive insights.

After Deborah died, I was asked to provide the artwork for the cover of her memorial program, which I was honored to do. To this day, I have a magnet on my fridge of her smiling photo that inspires and reminds me of the wonderful, brave person that she was:

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2000-02-10/news/in-memory-of-deborah-laake/1/


Deborah flashed like a meteor over the horizon during her short, brilliant, dramatic life. She disappeared quickly but sure as hell lit things up as she blazed across the sky, illuminating the way for many of us.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2013 10:37PM by steve benson.

. . . was tearful, distraught, humiliated and subjected by certain members the High Council to answering questions and/or confessing details about his personal sexual life. (Thankfully, I was not one of those interrogators).

It was a disquieting event, to say the least. I am actually glad I was eventually kicked off the High Council in a matter of months by the stake president (in my case, for drawing editorial cartoons critical of Arizona's eventually impeached and convicted Mormon governor, Ev Mecham, who was publicly using his Mormon faith for political gain).

In a related vein, before being dispatched on my mission to Japan, the Asian-bound missionaries were first housed for a few days at a downtown Salt Lake City clearing-house mission home (no longer standing). I remember how all the elders were encouraged, as one last chance, to confess their private "sins" to the mission home president. The line was long outside his office door and remained that way for hours. In my opinion and in ex-Mormon hindsight, it was a totally unnecessary, personally violative and ultimately sexaully abusive practice that put those young men through an emotionally-exacting, guilt-inducing wringer.

The Mormon Church is very good and well-practiced at destroying people from the inside out.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2013 10:11PM by steve benson.

I will read her book.
Why did you accept this behavior in the council? Has anyone ever just walked out or was it just accepted as the norm: you did this so we will ask you any question and you must answer it as a sign of repentance, like whipping yourself if you were catholic? Does anyone say "Hey this is just too damn creepy and wrong? Has it always been this way?
Do they go and publish this stuff on the internet?
Do they discuss it outside of the council room?
Don't people become mentally ill because of this? Is this why so many womne in Utah are on antidepressants?

This was back in the early'90s so, no, the verdict was not published on the Internet. High Council so-called "courts of love" are notoriously secretive and unfair, so it would not do the image of the Mormon Church any good by publicly revealing what goes on in these stacked decks at the expense of the accused.

The extent to which the decision of the High Council is "discussed" outside its kangaroo-court chambers is to announce in sacrament meeting that the defendant was excommunicated (at least that was the practice when I was aboard ship).

Lots of people are on anti-depressants and are even suicidal, including lots of Utah Mormons. The reasons can vary but I would say it's a safe bet that the unhealthy doctrines and practices of Mormonism do not contribute to a happy and balanced life.

(see "Welcome to the World of the Smiley-Faced Depressed: Depression and Suicide in Mormon Utah," posted by Steve Benson, "Recovery from Mormonism" discussion board, 11 April 2013, at: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,859276)



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2013 12:03AM by steve benson.

Thank you.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,859185 (the entire thread is recommneded reading); and http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,859185,859369#msg-859369



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2013 03:56AM by steve benson.

A friend of mine who was the 2nd counselor in our ward and who left the church shortly after I did, was shocked when having a repeat interview with a lady who had committed adultery about the intimate nature of the questions the stake presidency had asked her. She had thought not much of it, but they requested graphic detail of what, when why how, color of panties, what type of sex acts etc etc etc.

It was not enough to confess to the adultery, it had to be confession with mental voyeurism. Pretty disgusting if you ask me.

I have plenty of friends who were asked very intimate details, and asked to recount those details, explaining every single bit. It breaks my heart to hear there stories.
I was never personally interrogated. I couldn't "lie" about my sexual transgression, as I was growing a baby at 17. However, I was counseled over and over again because I never "appeared" to be repentant enough.

I went into an interview with my Bishop when I was 13 years old. He was a Dean at BYU. The Bishop told me that a lot of men in the ward were addicted to masturbating and that it was a sinful habit. He then asked me if I had any problem with masturbation. I was relieved at his phrasing of the question and I honestly told him that, "no Bishop, I have no problem with masturbation."

+1000000

Hahahahahahahaha !!!!!


I drink

I get drunk

I fall down

No problem

I remember those questions as a teenager as far back as the 70's. In the early 80's when I sat before my bishop and later, a church "court" I was asked for details of my intimate relationship with my husband before we were married.

It is abusive. It should have been enough to say I had "sinned" without having to go into detail. I was afraid to not answer the questions because the consequences, so I was taught, were eternal for both me and my family. Now, I consider that emotionally abusive.

I have a feeling that they might have modified the practice a bit these days, as they have had strong criticism about it, especially about private interviews with minors. In my day, grilling kids about masturbation was very common. It was a very convenient way to generate the guilt that subjugates minds. Convincing someone that they are a sinner or "unworthy" is great for getting into their head and controlling them. I think it varies as to how much delving into sexual matters is done and I knew at least one bishop who was over-interested in sexual things.. He was obviously doing it for his own gratification.

I was asked about masturbation when I was a 13 yo TBM girl. I felt SO guilty because I was "sinning" at that time. I was afraid I was going to lose the privilege of doing baptisms for the dead.