http://journeyofloyaldissent.wordpress.com/2013/04/06/6/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 09:10PM by ragingphoenix.

I have followed Mr. Palmer's career closely for many years now and have corresponded with him. All the facts in this entry sound plausible based on everything I know about him but obviously cannot be corroborated except by the man and/or the persons themselves.

OMG.

They seem to match up to a few things I have heard him say, but never just flat out like that.

His presentation at the 2012 exmo conference referenced some of these, but in a more indirect way.

I just want to know if this is legit.

I hope the comment about their being cracks on the face of the dam are correct. The day the damn breaks will be the best day of my life.

Finally, I will be vindicated.

This seems much more plausible than jarediite submarines

If it is legit, it' earthshaking but I'm withholding judgement. I'd be surprised if these guys, at least some of them haven't figured it out. I did, and I'm not highly educated.. just snoopy and curious and willing to doubt things, because after 62 years on this planet I know everybody has an angle and people lie to us very sincerely throughout our term here.

I think that extraordinary claims should require extraordinary evidence. That memo is so full of big claims that I would really need for Grant Palmer to weigh in before I would consider accepting it as true.

The editors at MT have heard this from Grant as well. We do not know that he had officially given permission for it to be released, but everything in this account correlates with what we've been told.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 10:17PM by Jesus Smith.

Very interesting. Thanks for your input.

Jesus Smith,
Can you please clarify?

Have the editors at Mormon Think been told things "consistent with" this posting?

Or, have they been told "these exact things" with at least as much detail as is in the linked blog posting?

Or, is there some other way you can accurately characterize what has been told to editors at MormonThink?

I emailed Grant tonight to confirm he gave permission. He replied: ”Yes, The GA also knows it has been released.”

Even if it is from Grant Palmer - which needs to be confirmed:

It clearly states that it is the opinion of one GA that the apostles don't believe - he directly states that is based on body language and not on any direct evidence.

If this really is true I have very little respect for the integrity of whoever this is. If they truly know the church is a fraud and yet stay involved at that high of level they have no integrity. Therefore I have limited trust in anything they say.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 09:58PM by The Oncoming Storm - bc.

The very last part mentions how high level Mormon leaders
have concluded that the Book of Abraham is not an authentic
document.

This is hardly a new conclusion and I do not know if it can
be grouped in with the "earth-shattering" part of the text.

Lucy Mack Smith, who used to show off the Egyptian papyrus
rolls at two-bits a look-see probably knew that they had
nothing to do with Abraham, and were not composed by any
such ancient patriarch. Had they been authentic, she might
have sold them for a hefty sum, even back in the 1840s.

Also, Lucy's son William had no compunction when it came
to pawning the "precious manuscripts" for a few bucks. He
knew that was all he could get for them -- that they were
not authentic Abraham productions.

Two of William's sisters ended up in the RLDS Church, which
did not accept the book as authentic. William also ended
up there -- as did Emma Hale Smith and numerous other
members of Joseph Smith, jr.'s extended family. None of
them are known to have complained that the book was not
being published and promoted as scripture by the RLDS.

So, if the Smith family in the Midwest did not accept the
book, we can be pretty sure that their cousins in Utah
did not believe it to be real either. How often did John
Smith, the LDS Patriarch, ever use that text in public
discourses? Or George A. Smith? Or even Joseph F. Smith?

They all knew it was bogus. The RLDS could find no use for
the Book of Abraham, so they did not mind admitting that
it was a forgery. The LDS did find a use for it, and were
less inclined to admit the Joseph did not always speak as
a prophet.... so they DID mind admitting the truth.

UD

Lets not forget the upper leaders have access to info that would probably slam the doors shut on every single mormon building if they let the cat out of the bag.

They don't keep all that stuff locked up for nothing.

The fact that the BOA is a fraud though... Throws a bad light on the BOM. At least to any thinking person.

I believe the million dollars is a forgivable loan that is assured to be called in the moment any of them dare rock the boat. There are lawyers at COB that work these contracts and are on strict NDA...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 10:05PM by Jesus Smith.

Yes that is also what I've heard from other sources - that it is a loan - but they don't necessarily ever have to repay it.

Bednar will soon get his resort home in the area close to where uchtdorf got his last year. I anticipate the value to be just under a million as well.

I don't accept anything on claims anymore...that's why I'm skeptical and made this thread.

I know many of you are more tied in to the loop than I am...

I'm wondering if this could be a blog post by someone who has pulled various shenanigans in the past. In 2012 someone who attended the ExMo Conference (where he presumably heard Palmer speak and allude to some of this stuff with far less detail) also claimed to have a video of Romney in the temple and that he would release that video before the election. Could a hoaxter like that be responsible for something like this as well?

It is a matter of historical record that Seventy Quorum member B.H. Roberts didn't believe the Book of Mormon was true and that First Presidency counselor Hugh B. Bronw didn't believe the Book of Abraham was true.

Mormon apostles Dallin H. Oaks and Neal H. Maxwell privately admitted to me that there was no compelling proof for the Book of Mormon, with Oaks saying he just knew it was true in his heart, and Maxwell saying God was keeping the final proof for the Book of Mormon on hold until the last days.

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon481.htm

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,629590

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,809696,809696

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,327923,328588



Edited 11 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 10:46PM by steve benson.

RE "Church broke"

The report mentions the term "Church Broke" or "Church Broken" to indicate that a member or leader is totally "owned" by the church. It is based on training horse so they will do as they are told. The term was once well-known in the church, but rarely used today.

See "Breaking the will of the members" in Short Topics:

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon316.htm

Grant Palmer has many publications in his own name. They are listed on Mormonthink.com. The new blog says something about Grant giving permission to share. If he were really going to share that blog, wouldn't he have it placed on Mormonthink.com?

I am guessing someone made up that blog so that when it turns out it's fake, it can be shown to be the dishonest work of those evil anti mormons.

Although I am withholding judgment for now, I am very skeptical, and I think you raise yet another important point.

This doesn't really feel like the way Palmer would do this, it feels more like a prankster, but I'll withhold judgment for now, and just ask questions.

OMG. I'd love it if this memo is authentic . . .

It is. Grant had told us at Mormon think the same things, and just confirmed personally that he gave permission for the release of this account.

@Jesus Smith,

The authenticity of this thing is a pretty big deal; if you have evidence of Palmer's confirmation, would you mind sharing? i.e. a screenshot of the email (with all person details blacked out, obviously.

Forgetting the opinion about the belief of the other GA's for now... It's earthshaking enough to know that there IS a member of the first seventy, an ex mission president who know the truth and are meeting with Grant P.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 11:31PM by rationalguy.

Hope they stay as moles, get called to the 12, and blow it wide open in GC.

The BoA piece can be easily explained these days by apologists BUT the £1m award to newly appointed Apostles - if true, would be massively damaging to TSCC. Most members are clueless about the generous stipend and other benefits, let alone this.

It would be interesting to see if church PR denied this allegation if it more generally entered the public domain, or whether they would just ignore it. If played smartly, this could be the rope they hang themselves with.

To me, it reeks of a faith-demoting story, because nobody is named, and it makes big claims. When/if a GA goes public with their unbelief, it'll be interesting. Until then it's just speculation.

But another thing about GA's not believing is that it really makes no difference. You don't need a GA to deny the faith to figure out that it's hogwash. And if a GA went public tomorrow and denied the faith, it probably wouldn't hurt anyone's faith. They'd probably just think the devil got to him, and "even the very elect will be deceived." and "Wow, this IS the last days". And they'd have a renewed commitment to read their scriptures and avoid thinking about anything that challenges faith.

My mission President Douglas T. Snarr had a needlepoint quote on his wall and still does. "Ya gotta be priesthood broke !"

It's kinda creepy. Like, you may be called to take care of some unpleasant business for the church some day so you have to choose this day who you will obey.

There is this wagon train from Arkansas traveling through Utah that needs to atone for the murder of the Prophet Joseph...

Sorry, I meant the Prophet Joseph and Parley p. Pratt

I've heard various bits about the "golden anchors" given to the big 15. " Law of Consecration" as the believers like to say. This fits in and rings true. Unless any GA comes out publicly, with cocrete evidence, it can be nicely swept under the rug. My guess is that the contracts in place are structured to annihilate any of the 15 who would dare go public. I would love to see it happen, but I won't hold my breath...

I just wish that the GA in question were a member of the Presidency of the Seventies.

Apparently Grant tends to exaggerate according to John Larsen.

The only claims that aren't speculation are that Grant is meeting with a GA and a former mission president that might not literally believe many of the Mormon foundational claims. I can believe that, but everything else are possibly exaggerations.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2013 02:39AM by Brian M.