Hey, ya'll!

I'm new to the boards, though I visit this site often. I have a friend who recently converted. At her suffestion, I have been chatting online with sister missionaries in Utah, and I have had some meeting with missionaries and, recently, sister missionaries here.

I must admit that the cukture and religion are fascinating. I had never actually spoken with Mormons before. They've all been pretty sweet, but with the face-to-face missionaries, thre has been a BIG push for me to get baptised. My view is that baptism is a HUGE decision and not to be taken lightly - certainly not within a couple of weeks of study! I have concerns abiut the church though.

One big concern is tithing. We cannot afford it. My convert friend has reassured me that I can work it out with the bishop.

Another concern is receiving a calling. I have stage IV breast cancer. My health isn't good. My treatments are palliative only, and I always explain this. Supposedly, callings come from God, revealed to the bishop through prayer. My friend assured me that, again, I would never be asked to do something I couldn't do.

Last question: once I'm baptised, what will be expected of me as a full member of the church? During our last meeting with the local sister missionaries, they said they would need to "bring in someone from the church" who could address my questions.

My convert friend reassured me that nothing would be asked of me if I couldn't do it. Prayer, etc.

Does anyone have any idea what's expected of a new convert?

Thanks. :)

You are being politely and lovingly scammed.

You are going to see a lot of the details explained to you, but you can take this to the bank: They want you baptized for reasons that benefit them, not you. That's why there's a big push.

^this

elaryn Wrote:
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> Does anyone have any idea what's expected of a new
> convert?

Yes...as a new convert you will be friendshipped and affirmed in every possible way until you are firmly within the LDS fold, at which point...

...you will be more-or-less "dropped" by just about everyone as they swarm the NEXT object of their desire and get THEM firmly within the fold.

Once you are in, you will be expected to contribute "everything" (your time, your money, your weekends, your evenings, your non-Mormon family of birth, your own ideas of what you should eat and drink, your own sense of what you want to wear, your sexuality and your decisions about procreation, and what you think---or want to think, AND YOUR CHILDREN!!!) to the LDS organization. If you balk, there will be all kinds of "enforcers" who will visit you, without your invitation or permission, to bully you into doing what you "promised" to do by being baptized, plus you will be required to go to one-on-one meetings with various church authorities (bishops, etc.) who will further attempt to bully you into conforming submission.

Unless you come from a wealthy family, you will wind up poorer, and unhappier, than if you had chosen other ways to live your life. (Prescriptions for depression are enormously common for active Mormons, because they NEED them.)

This is what I have learned from being on this board for more than ten years.

I'm sure many others will be here to give their takes on your questions...there is enormous wisdom and knowledge here among our members.

Welcome to RfM!!! :)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2015 06:19PM by tevai.

Oh yes! I noticed the love-bombing. I also noticed that whatever I mention, in terms of Scripture (I'm a Roman Catholic Christian), they "just happened" to be thinking of it, read it recently or some such. I was invited to a baptism, probably to show me how uplifting it would be. We didn't know the young lady being dunked. I felt very uncomfortable at attending a very personal ritual, but I was reassured it was fine. She and her family looked cery happy at least.

I have some of other personal issues: autism spectrum (Asperger's) and social phobia. Oh, and bi-polar II. I imagine I'll be told that God will make it better? (One of the missionaries in Utah probably has ALS; she's in a motorised wheelchair.) Aside deom the physical issues, the mental health issues make it difficult to attend the various churh things. The meeting is okay. The gospel study is...kind of okay. Relief Society was a little slice of hell. Some well-meaning old lady sitting behind me tapped my on the shoulder, and I almost jumped out of my skin. I fled just as soon as I could.

So, after you sign on the dotted line, no more nice-nice?

My friend in Canada is actually renting a hiuse from her bishop. He "just happened" to have it available. Dear Lord, what will happen if she leaves the church or has some kind of falling out?

Nope. Not joining. Especially not now. I feel very suspicious of people who aren't able to gove me precise expectations. I wouldn't buy a car or a house without reading the fine print, after all. One of the male missionaries, upon hearing that my husband and I were engaged for 6 years before marrying asked, "Was it worth it?" Oh YES. He looked very surprised. Feel sorry for his future girlfriends. XD

I started investigating because I was curious, and I wanted to understand what my friend was talking about. They use English very differently that most folks. It's almost like a sub-dialect.

I really appreciate the good advice.

We have that face-to-face meeting scheduled with the sisters this Saturday. I plan to attend so I can see this "church person" and see what s/he has to say in the matter. After that, I think I'm pulling the plug!

Just what do the missionaries get when they tslk someone into being baptised!

They don't get anything for baptizing except the chance to say how great they are for bringing people into the fold. It is a huge competition, and the missionaries with the most converts are the winners.

Why don't you join a church that will actually support you instead of trying to drain you? You are correct that 10% is a fully ridiculous amount of money for your average family to pay. The average church donation in the U.S. is about 2.6% of income, not 10%. And what do the Mormons do with all that money? They will never tell you. The LDS church does not publish their financials.

What the church *does* do is buy up millions, even billions of dollars worth of real estate and for-profit businesses. The church owns the City Creek center in Salt Lake City and the Polynesian Cultural Center (a profit making business) in Laie, Hawaii. It is one of the largest land owners in Florida. Yet it gives only a paltry amount to charities that benefit the wider community. Contrast this with other churches who *do* publish their financials and who give substantial amounts to charities that benefit everyone.

A respectable church would not be in any hurry to baptize you. They let you visit for as long as you like without pressure. If you feel in need of a church community, try the ELCA Lutherans, the Methodists, the Presbyterians, the Episcopalians, the Unitarian Universalists, etc. If you told the pastor of your health situation, I think their community would embrace you with open arms.

The Mormons will not tell you the whole story about their church in their rush to baptize you. Does it sound right to you that the church's founder, Joseph Smith, "married" and slept with other men's wives and young teenage girls? What sort of a decent person would do that?

http://wivesofjosephsmith.org/

Don't convert to the Mormon church just because they were the ones who knocked on your door.

Keep posting. We are here for you.

summer Wrote:
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> Why don't you join a church that will actually
> support you instead of trying to drain you?

She's catholic. She already belongs to a church like that.

Yes, you will be asked to do things you're not able to do. And then you'll be told you can do them, if you pray and obey hard enough you'll magically get strength. Only you won't.

In the nicest possible way, I'm simply going to tell you the facts:
The premise of the mormon church is a complete fraud. There were no "gold plates," the Book of Mormon is fiction, the Book of Abraham is a proven fraud, Smith was an egomanical, woman-chasing, power-hungry con man and not a "prophet," and the organization exists to give a small select group of men power (while having all the other men think they'll work their way up to being powerful someday),and make objects of women.

I was raised in it. I did a 2-year mission. Then I found out the church was lying through its holy teeth at every opportunity, and all of its truth claims are false. So I left. No regrets.

Please, please, PLEASE do not get baptized. Ask them the hard questions about Joseph Smith's polygamy, the book of Abraham fraud, and more. Find things out for yourself. Don't let the fake warm and welcome environment convince you to join what is a diabolical cult. If you feel you still want or need religion, high-tail it to your local parish and talk to a friendly priest. Stay away from mormons.

Actually, my experience with the Catholic Church has been rather the opposite. They have asked nothing of me at all. I stopped attending because of my social phobia, which can be very intense.

:) S'okay. Free country and different opinions.

No mo Mo for me!

I was raised Catholic, so I get it. No worries.

elaryn Wrote:
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> Actually, my experience with the Catholic Church
> has been rather the opposite. They have asked
> nothing of me at all. I stopped attending because
> of my social phobia, which can be very intense.
>
> :) S'okay. Free country and different opinions.
>
He was talking about the Mormon church and their demands, not the Catholic church. We understand they are different and less demanding.

Oh...derp! ;) Sorry about misunderstanding!

To address your question about tithing:

Tithing is technically optional, but not really. If you say to a bishop that you can't afford tithing, he would probably respond with, "Sister, you can't afford NOT to pay tithing." Meaning that if you don't pay tithing you can't receive blessings. There will be tremendous pressure to pay a full tithe.

After you are baptized, the bishop will see to it that you are preparing to go to the temple. You CANNOT go to the temple without paying a full tithe.

There are also yearly tithing settlement interviews where you meet with your bishop while he goes over your contributions for the year. You will be asked if what you contributed is a full tithing.

Tithing in in the Mormon church is meant to be paid before ALL other financial obligations including food, rent or a mortgage, clothing and medical bills. Recent church Ensign articles have reinforced this teaching.

This quote is from a December 2012 Ensign article:


“If paying tithing means that you can’t pay for water or electricity, pay tithing. If paying tithing means that you can’t pay your rent, pay tithing. Even if paying tithing means that you don’t have enough money to feed your family, pay tithing. The Lord will not abandon you.”

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2012/12/sacred-transformations?lang=eng

Please, please spend lots of time reading this board before you commit to anything.

I have to ask, do you believe the Mormon thing about the restored gospel, the gold plates, reformed Egyptian, that you need secret names and handshakes to get into heaven and all the rest of it including the tithing? If you don't find these claims credible then why in hell would you want to join this organization? If you do believe it then what does it matter if the rules, for example about tithing, will be convenient for you or not? If the claims are true then do what the Mormons tell you you must do. Either you believe Mormon practice is a divine mandate or you don't.

Believe it? No, though it seemed intriguing. I suppose, when one looks at ANY religion, belief and faith ae cornerstones, because just about ay faith you can name has points that are hard to swallow. I am a proud "cafeteria Catholic," because somw parts seem hard to swallow that others.

I give up. I don't understand how your mind is working here. Do whatever you want.

I'm naturally curious about things. Religion can be fascinating. But no....not becoming Mormon. Pulling the plug.

Please understand that the missionaries are sales reps. That's their job. Your convert friend is helping them in that role.

They will say and do A N Y T H I N G to sell their product and get you baptized. They will make any promise, soothe any fear, tell any falsehood needed.

There will be no "working out" tithing with the bishop. They will push you to go to the temple, which is designed to draw you in even further. The catch is, you can't go to the temple without paying tithing. No exceptions.

Don't believe me? This is a quote from a church leader named Lynn Robbins. He made this statement in the April 2004 General Conference, in an address titled "Tithing: A Commandment Even for the Destitute" –

"One of the first things a bishop *must* do to help the needy is ask them to pay their tithing. Like the widow [of Zarephath], if a destitute family is faced with the decision of paying their tithing or eating, they should pay their tithing. The bishop can help them with their food and other basic needs until they become self-reliant."

In the temple, should you get that far, you will promise ("covenant") to consecrate EVERYTHING you possess – time, money, resources – to the church. And you will be required to wear the special Mormon undergarments, day and night, for the rest of your life.

You mention "we." Are you married? You'll be pressured to get your husband baptized. The church will threaten you with the loss of your "forever family," and use guilt and fear to do so.

You'll be assigned to help clean the chapel on Saturdays. When the promised blessings don't come, you will be blamed for not being righteous enough or for having insufficient faith. The bishop has no line to god. His priesthood is fake.

The missionaries would pitch a fit if they knew you were asking for advice here. They will call us liars and deceived by Satan. They don't want you asking questions at all, let alone from sources that aren't church-approved or that they can't control. That by itself ought to tell you something.

Here is a recent thread about a convert who had been love-bombed into the church and was then subsequently ignored:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1657136

You really, really don't want to do this. You don't want to have to return to RFM in six months to confess that you should have listened to us. We don't want that either.

The Book of Mormon is a 19th-century work of bad racist fiction. Joseph Smith was a con man and sexual predator, and Mormons practically worship the guy. The church can offer you nothing except a life of mind-numbing obedience.

Please. For your own sake and sanity. Break it off now, while it's relatively easy. It will just get harder over time.

Pull the plug. I'm going to.

Heh. They wanted to come to my house. It's a disaster area because I havn't had the moxie to clean properly. My husband (who has made it VERY clear that he is my ride, not an investigator) is also disabled. I also have "too many" cats - that is, over the legal limit for my locality. Aside from not wanting strangers to see my awful house, I wonder if they'd decide to call code enforcement if they decided I wasn't cooperating?

That business with "helping" doesn't sit right.

Mormonism is a very invasive religion -- constant calls and house visits. You are supposed to be visited once a month by a pair of your fellow church members. Trust me, it's not for you.

Hahahahahaha!

I would LOVE to be present, or see the video, when you tell them that you're not going to set a baptism date until you get an "all clear" from RfM.

I can see them looking all puzzled... Then you spell it out, Recovery from Mormonism.

Naturally you would be counseled that it is 'bad' to seek information about the True Church from vile apostates, but the appropriate answer is that Truth never has to worry about being investigated. And liars hate it when you start checking their stories...

I'm pretty sure that "the kids" really do mean well. It's their handlers who are the problem.

Oh they do! Many of us here served as missionaries. Some hated it, some enjoyed it. I wish I could figure out how to predict who would fit in each category. (I enjoyed it, but I also stopped being a missionary half way through and became a tourist with weird rules.)

Yeah, the handlers... They're something else. Here's a collection of stories about these 'handlers', titled "Mission Presidents from Hell."
http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewthread/26983/


And here's a collection of stories by missionaries who were 'naughty' or wished they'd been 'naughty.' Being 18 - 22 and supposedly holy...pretty weird. It's titled "Best Apostate Missionary Stories."
http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewthread/18763/

Mormonism is now stewing in it's own juices.

When I was a missionary, the church's growth rate was phenomenal and it was projected (1965) that there would be 100 million members by the year 2000. Mormonism was the fastest gun in town, as in the fastest growing religion. Now they claim a bit more than 15 million and are seen as stagnating in their own reproductive juices. In the USA, their growth, as a percentage of the population, is negative.

Just tell the missionaries that you are not going to be one of their minor miracles; not even a tender mercy. You may not get what the import behind these phrases, but they will.

As individuals, most of us treat the missionaries with some degree or pity/kindness, but as a program, it's long seen the end of its usefulness.

Good luck and stay in touch if you like us. (we're soooo needy!)

I don't know, but I imagine that a diagnosis of Stage IV breast cancer and a choice of palliative care is a very difficult experience! I appreciate already your strength and courage.

In light of that, I have to ask if this is the best time to make a huge life-changing decision that will be disruptive to any familial, emotional, financial and spiritual support systems you might already have in place?

A lot will be expected of you - study, observances, practices. You will be expected to develop a testimony and share it publicly, and with everyone in you know. You will be expected to make the church the center of your life.

Thank you for chatting here as well as with missionaries.

You're right. Bad time for such an important decision. It was interesting though.

I was born Episcopalian. I had a very bad experience with evangelicals (Campus Crusade for Christ - now known as CRU) back in the 70s. When I met my husband in 1984, I started informally investigating the Catholic Church (for which I had always had an affinity). I was confirmed in 2003. Everyone on my husband's family asked to think long and carefully before joining. My MIL was sincere when she told not to convert just for her sake.

The priest who brought me formally into the Church said I have a "Catholic soul." :)

No Mormons for me. The plug is being pulled. We done. Bye.

I wondered why no one was telling me the expectations after baptism. Pig in a poke.

If they told people all of the expectations and requirements before they were baptized, no one would get baptized. That is why they don't tell you.

They are especially good at finding vulnerable people. People who are in transition or who are struggling with things like cancer might be attracted to the comfort the church appears to offer.

Determine what it is that you need and then ask yourself if joining a religion like Mormonism is really a response to other issues.

Sincere good wishes as you deal with cancer. May your treatments be successful and your needs met.

Don't join, but if it gives you any satisfaction to be love bombed while you're coping with cancer treatments, that's up to you.

What tevai said about joining is standard fare. They'll love bomb you into the church, and as soon as you're baptized and getting settled you'll notice you're next being ignored and forgotten.

You'll wonder what happened? Did you change? No, only they do after they convert someone, they move on to the next prospect. Like a hustler wanting as many trophy girlfriends as possible, never satisfied with the one he has. They'll drop you for the next kill.

People with disabilities are also shunned as Mormons, not saying that to hurt your feelings, but it is true. The more disabled or financially strapped you are, they'll distance themselves and make you feel inferior to them. Instead of treating you as an equal. They have superiority complexes, at least many of them do, and like to see themselves as numero uno at someone else's expense.

So, if you're still looking for a sincere fellowship experience, I'd recommend you continue your search elsewhere.

But fighting cancer you're going to need all the encouragement and support you can get. If you're getting that from your mormon friends for now, maybe okay.

You'll need to use your intuition and let your spirit be your guide.

Sorry to hear of the battles you're going through. I hope things get better.

Basically, what is expected is that your ENTIRE life be dedicated to the church. Them saying that tithing can be worked out with your bishop is an absolute lie. In the Mormon church, tithing comes FIRST, even before bills or other financial obligations. There is a reason they are rushing you to get baptized - they as salespeople. Don't rely on the warm fuzzies that they want investigators to feel, do your research into church history, beliefs, etc. The Mormon church uses its friendliness, clean cut members, and feel-good sales tactics as a mask for the ugly truths that the church wants to keep hidden.

I also hope that you will find the best way to be as happy as you can.

I doubt very much that the Mormon church will be the place to find that, though. As has been mentioned, the missionaries, innocent and sweet as the seem to be, are trained salespeople. They attend a a training program where they get intensive coaching in how to ignore legitimate questions and only answer the questions that "you should have asked." Which means, the questions that they can use to sell you their product.

They also have a deliberate practice of seeking out people who are vulnerable --- those who are sick, or lonely, or foreigners, etc. --- and love-bombing those people, as they know that those people are especially easy to convert. And once they have gotten you baptized, they will stop giving and start taking everything that they can.

Again, it has been pointed out above --- legitimate groups expect investigators to research thoroughly. They require a lengthy course of study, before you join, to be sure that the group is right for you and that you understand it fully. Scams try to pressure you into a quick baptism, in order to get control over you and your life as quickly as possible.

Legitimate groups welcome serious investigation, as they have nothing to hide. Scams discourage you from seeking out information from anyone but them, for the very obvious reason that they do have something to hide.

Please take care of yourself and let your life be as free and as joyful as you can.

Read CES letter.com

That will answer a lot of your questions.

Most "churches" would be happy to have you come visit anytime... for as long as you like, with no obligations whatsoever.

This is how we know Mormonism is not a church, but a FACTORY, a brick wall and a whiny baby. It will never shut up: telling you what to do, and to do more and more and more; eternal meetings, personal interrogations, impossible standards, continual heartache and misery.

You will be expected to prop up and support the church. Defend it. Stand up fur it. It can't stand on its own two feet. You will be its crutches, its training wheels, its mouthpiece.

You will be expected to be like those missionaries... always talking about the church; trying to get your friends to attend and convert... to get stuck in the same quicksand.

You don't want to go to hell do you?

Mormonism is HELL, wrapped in smiles, silly books that contradict themselves, worshipping Joseph's Myth, who died a hundred and fifty years ago: a liar, flip flopper, manipulator, virginizer & a strange man always running from the law.

You will lose yourself. You'll find nothing of value. If so, visit 100 times. Say you are still "investigating" - the pressure will be unbearable.

Why do they want you to convert so fast? Why do they want your money? (BTW, there is nothing to work out with the bishop; tithing is supposed to be on your increase. If you trade your time for money/ salary. The increase is rather small, + it's a trade off; they say it's between you and God - Good is not the bishop).

What you are searching for, supposing you are searching, will not be found in TMC.

Do your research. Take your time. Learn about lds his story.

Don't worry, be/ stay happy.

Don't get too close to the edge of the water. It's deep and dark and dangerous.