This feels a bit self-serving, but I’m honestly not sure what to do. I’ve been meeting with the missionaries for several months, and, well…there are parts of it that have been really horrible. There’s a part of me that wishes I’d never talked to them in the first place. Everything just feels so complicated now, and it’s driven a bit (okay, more than a bit) of a wedge between my parents and me. I’m really sick of both sides, at this point (the fair weather friends from the LDS church and my family).

My mother only believes it’s a cult because that’s what the leaders at my childhood church have said. She knows nothing about what they believe. She just accepts what the church leaders say and parrots it back to me. “It’s a cult!” That might be correct, but I find it just as frustrating that she makes such statements and then has no evidence to back up those claims. Every attempt at an argument that she has made was one that was actually against Jehovah’s Witnesses—not Mormons. She still refuses to believe that there are differences in their doctrine.

The Elders…well, they talk about how happy “the fully restored gospel” makes them. That’s all fine and dandy. If what they say is true (and not just some premediated response based on what’s expected of them), then I’m happy for them. But Mormonism hasn’t made me happy. I’m stressed out—not only because of school, but also because of the pressure I feel to attend church, to read the Book of Mormon and the other scriptures, to follow the Word of Wisdom, to come to other church-related activities (like firesides), to talk to my mother about all of this…the list goes on. I’ve already read the Book of Mormon twice. This is my third time reading it. What more do they want? I feel physically ill whenever I try to read the Doctrine and Covenants. I still haven’t made it past the first section. It freaks me out. There’s a certain portrait of Joseph Smith that makes my skin crawl. The Word of Wisdom isn’t a big deal for me to follow. I already didn’t like coffee or tea. I avoid alcohol, because I associate it with my alcoholic great-grandfather. Plus, I just don’t care for the taste or how it makes me feel. Lots of caffeine tends to give me headaches, so I avoid soda, most of the time. I’ve only been to one fireside, and it was murder trying to get my parents to let me go to that—same with church. I’m doing my best… Why isn’t that enough? And why is it so terrible that I have depression? It’s clinical depression. No amount of prayer is going to make it go away. What about that is so hard for them to understand?

Sometimes, I start crying for no reason. I feel like I just want my life to come to a halt. I don’t want to die. I just want everything to end. In the grand scheme of things, this is no big deal. Other people have it much worse than I do. But I don’t know how I’ll handle having a calling. And I’m kind of afraid of getting baptized… They hate that I read things on here, but I’m not going to stop just because they tell me to stop. I’m tired of feeling the need to please them. I’m not even sure why I feel that way. It’s stupid. It feels like an endless cycle. I just want to hit a “pause” button, so that I have time to actually think. But I can’t. I don’t know what to do. I don’t know what I believe. I don’t know what to think.

This started out as curiosity. I wanted to know more about what some of my friends believed. That was it. I'm not sure when it turned into this...whatever this is. But it did. And I don't know how to handle it.

When something causes so much stress and uncertainty then the best thing to do is back away for awhile and not make a decision. Things come into focus when you give things some distance.

When I figured out that Mormonism was not what it claims to be (after a lifetime of Mormonism--including as a missionary) then it felt like a weight was lifted off my shoulders. You have the chance to not ever have that weight in the first place. Back away and give yourself some time.

danr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When something causes so much stress and
> uncertainty then the best thing to do is back away
> for awhile and not make a decision. Things come
> into focus when you give things some distance.
>

This.

BTW, just because you agreed to talk to the mishies, doesn't mean you're under any obligation. It is okay to say "thanks, but no thanks."

My advice: take a break. No decision now. Give it all a rest. Get involved in other things that are pleasant and fun.

Revisit the situation in about six months. Then, determine
what you want to do.

In the mean time, do your own research and study if you are interested.

Your mom may have no clue if or why it's a cult but I was a member for 30 plus years and it's a cult. Cults are defined by the presence of mind-control techniques and Mormonism uses most of the techniques on most expert lists most of the time. Here is one of my favorite links to what elements have to be present to be called a cult. You may not recognize these, in your short stint as an investigator but I promise, as a long time member and having been a missionary myself, these are very present in the Mormon lifestyle.

http://www.howcultswork.com/

But that aside, you need to listen to your feelings. Depression is rampant in the Mormon church and it sounds like you know in your heart that this isn't the path to happiness. If it were, you'd be happier about your decision. Everything in your instinct is warning you to run and you have to be brave enough to trust yourself. The Mormon church will be there next year if you change your mind. Right now, it seems like your heart is telling you that becoming a Mormon is the wrong thing for you. And you are right. It's not a happy way to live. The missionaries will, of course, say it is because they either don't know any better life or because they are selling you something. They aren't going to tell you the downside. Your heart is warning you. Please listen to it. You are right. Don't do something you already regret.

My dear, you are smarter than you give yourself credit for. Trust your own thinking.

The other advice here, to give it all a rest while you focus on school and other priorities, is exactly right.

Listen to your own brain. It will not fail you.

Did you know that your skin is the human body's largest organ? Absolute truth! Just ask Google!

So... when you wrote, "There’s a certain portrait of Joseph Smith that makes my skin crawl", you should trust your skin. Your skin is your friend, and it wants what's best for you.

Probably every week I get a new favorite question to ask a TBM. This week it's about the BoM's special witness to there being no death on earth prior to Adam & Eve leaving the GoE. "How come a certain percentage of human beings alive today have Neanderthal DNA?" It could make for a fascinating discussion, given that Neanderthals died out 40,000 years ago.

But they won't want to discuss it. They'd rather you "feel the spirit" instead of seek knowledge. That's a very culty thing, you know.

chimera Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just want to hit a “pause” button, so that I have time to actually think.

Hit the pause button. Take time away from the church -- all of it. If you decide to go back it will still be there in six months, or a year, or two years. It isn't going anywhere.

In the meantime, study. Keep reading this website and message board. Also take a look at the following websites:

http://mormonthink.com/

http://packham.n4m.org/tract.htm

http://wivesofjosephsmith.org/

No decent church would pressure you to join. No decent church would put so many time, money, and other demands on you. Trust your instincts. You deserve better.

If you are not already, make sure that you are getting appropriate help for your depression -- from your family physician and from a counselor, perhaps at your school.

Keep reading and posting. We are here for you. We care very much about our younger board members. We want you to be happy and thrive.

Mormonism is a cult...big time. Check out these four good websites to find out for yourself:

http://www.utlm.org

http://www.cesletter.com

http://packham.n4m.org/#MORMONISM

http://www.mormonthink.com

Do some serious research and dodge a bullet.

Good luck...

Iceman

All of you--you have no idea how much this means to me. I'm not sure how I'll go about telling the missionaries--and my TBM friends--that I might want to take a break... (I'm not good with conflict.) But I'm beginning to realize that my misgivings aren't just a sign of spiritual weakness. And that's thanks to you all. Your advice and encouragement mean so much to me. I hope you know that part of what makes this site such a safe haven is people like you. Thank you so much.

What you are feeling is not at all unusual for people your age. Realize that *what you want* is important! Practice saying in the mirror, "Thank you for your time, but I need to take a long break. I will not be accepting your calls or visits any longer. If at some point I want to return, I will contact YOU. In the meantime, please respect my privacy and do not contact me again. Failure to respect my wishes will drive me away permanently."

Establishing personal boundaries is one of the great tasks of a young adult. Realize the following:

Just because someone calls you does not mean that you need to talk to that person.
Just because someone knocks on your door does not mean that you need to respond.
If you choose to respond, you need not open the door. You may talk to that person through a closed and locked door. Your safety and security come first!
If you choose to open the door, you need not invite anyone in.

Important: YOU DO NOT NEED TO JUSTIFY YOUR RELIGIOUS CHOICES TO FRIENDS OR MISSIONARIES. Don't feel that you need to support your decision or explain yourself to anyone outside of your family. In most countries, religion is considered a private matter. What you choose to believe or not believe is no one's business but your own. You can simply say, "I'm not ready to make a decision at this time, and I won't discuss it any further," or "I've decided not to join this church. Thank you for respecting my personal agency."

You learn how to be brave through practicing being brave. It really is that simple. Know that you count and you matter. What YOU want is more important than what some random person wants from you. Stick up for yourself and don't let them mow you down.

Good luck to you and do let us know how things proceed.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2015 07:29PM by summer.

Great advice Summer. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Chimera, you have been given some wonderful advice by everyone here. Yes, your mother is right, this so called church is a cult and whilst mum may base her arguments on what her church says about the JW's, the Mormons and JW's do have quite a lot in common.They take your life, your time, money and energy and give nothing but guilt, shame, depression and feelings of inadequacy in return.

I was baptised way back in 1961 soon after I legally became an adult, but prior to this my mother who knew absolutely nothing about TSCC used to follow me out on the footpath and scream abuse and obscenities after me as I left for work. The young man I was going to marry broke off with me, he didn't want a mormon for a wife because of their "polygamous beliefs".

In hindsight, I joined the church in a fit of childish rebellion simply to show everyone that as I was now legally an adult I could and would make my own life decisions and would no longer allow others to control my life. In other words I jumped out of the frying pan into the fire! Unfortunately the internet and groups like this did not exist way back then. If they had I would probably never have joined TSCC.

Please consider the advice of other posters here and step well back from the missionaries and their pressures until you know what it is that YOU want to do. Big supportive hugs to you.

Hahaha!

Tell them you went to RfM and the spirit witnessed to you that what you learned here was true.

Then invite them to visit here so that they too can learn the Truth. Say it with a big, sappy smile on your face, and let them know you've never been happier.

I understand not being good with conflict. As a young person, I had been programmed to consider others before myself, always, always, always show respect and defer to elders, and help whoever needed it, regardless of the personal cost to myself.

That all may be (but I now think not) well and good for a child, because even if a child gives everything he has, there's someone else to see to his basic needs.

As an adult, you are the driver who will choose the routes that will best provide for your own needs and wants. No one can take that away from you unless you allow it.

Change is difficult and may well intensify or cause depression, and you are changing into an adult. Your elders may still want to influence or control you, but at some point, you need to let them know that your life direction is yours to steer.

One of the best responses I've heard to lengthy complaints about one's choices is, "I'm sorry you feel that way."

(NOTE THE PERIOD)


Mom: "I didn't raise you to [whatever], and it's very disrespectful of you to [whatever]. I don't think you love me."

(or whatever manipulation anyone may try in order to take control of your decisions)

You: "I'm sorry you feel that way."

Them: "Blah, blah, blah, you should/shouldn't go against my advice, blah, blah, blah, because I know what God thinks (RUN AWAY!) because I, too, didn't have enough faith/was willful, and blah, blah, blah, don't want you to burn in hell for all eternity."

You: "I'm sorry you felt that way."

You need not be unkind or fake. You can feel real sympathy that they are so miserable in their loss of control over you. It also tends to weed out those who, above friendship or love, wants something else from you.

I wish the best for you, whatever you decide.
___________
THAT is what a kind and loving statement sounds like. And I meant it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2015 09:24PM by myprofie.

Your are under a great deal of stress and feeling pressured into doing things you either don't want to do, don't have time to do, get in the way of what you need to do (school) and creating a rift with your family. The mormon church is supposed to be all about family but it is actually very good at tearing them apart. You certainly seem to be very unhappy and if that's the case, cut ties completely with the missionaries. You don't need the pressure or the angst. I think you see the writing on the wall and you don't want to join.

Since you are depressed, seek help for that rather than perhaps trying to find happiness based on empty promises from missionaries. It sounds like you are still pretty young, but that doesn't mean your aren't intelligent. Don't pressure yourself. You have time to figure out things and to learn to rely on yourself. Have confidence in yourself. The ultimate decision is yours and you don't have to explain yourself to others if you do not want to.

I've been there. There were times that going to church or firesides made me feel really good. There were more times where I was miserable. The "feel good" stuff was temporary. I never found true happiness as a mormon and once I was strong enough to leave I was able to figure out who I really was. I am much happier now. Best of luck to you.

Hey Team,

Let's focus some energy on helping 'chimera' with how to tell the missionaries.

Chimera,

We've been through this discussion with others here before. It is actually VERY simple, but not necessarily easy. You just say NO. You don't let them draw you into a discussion of WHY; you just say NO.

Who else can help out here?

JAR

Chimera. As others have adviced. You need a break. Take that break. Just say no. You are not obliged to explain yourself to anybody. And I was thinking that since your mother is against mormonism, and it sounds like you live with her. Make use of that if you have to. She doesn't need to know the particulars of mormon cultiness to help you stand up for yourself. 'Not interested', 'needs a break' e.t.c. are not invitations to theological debates.

By all means research mormonism for your own peace of mind, but do it for yourself on your own terms and in your own pace. There's no rush. I'd recommend Packhams site as a good place to start that project if that's what you want. But again, please only if that's what you want to or feel like doing. It seems to me you are trying too much to please everyone else but yourself. That's too much pressure to put on anyone.

I agree with JAR. Just say NO. No need to explain anything to them. No need to justify your position to them.

I was "born in the church," raised in it, ordained an elder, went through the temple, served a 2-year mission for it.

Then I left.
Because it's not just a cult, it's dishonest, lying, oppressive cult.

You don't owe missionaries or teachers any explanation. You don't have to give in to their pressure. You don't have to demean them or tell them what a lying, dishonest cult they're in. Just tell them no, and to not bother you any longer. They'll try to talk you out of that -- don't let them. Tell them no again, and not to come back.

This is a good exercise in setting boundaries.

Practice saying: Thanks for calling, but please, don't contact me again. I'm taking a break. I'll let you know if I want to talk to you again. Goodbye and have a nice day. (Then hang up.. do not wait for a response.) Now do it!
If they come by the door put a big sign that says: DO NOT DISTURB.

Then, do not answer their phone calls or respond to texts, or answer the door.

Take a real long break.

"They hate that I read things on here"

Of course they hate it. Knowledge is their enemy. They are salesmen, and knowledge makes their sales job harder. But that's their problem, not yours.

"I'm tired of feeling the need to please them."

You don't owe them anything. They don't care about you as a person. They want to baptize you to make themselves heroes, as they imagine.

It sounds as if you are a people-pleasing type of individual. We see them on a regular basis. Here is the most recent thread posted by someone else who was facing the same situation:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1507854

Take a lengthy time out. The longer you wait, and the deeper you get, the harder it will be to pull away. That is the nature of a cult. You've already seen the beginning stages of this.

And for your own sanity, please stop reading the Book of Mormon. Twice is more than enough. It's all just made up. None of it is real.

Push Pause.

Take a break from the missionaries, from church functions, from the BOM. They are not going anywhere.

Tell the missionaries that you are taking a break and you will contact them when you are ready. if you want evidence of what your mom says about it being a cult you will discover that they don't want to let you take a break, this is a sign of being in a cult.

Stop answering calls, stop answering the door, for them. breathe, relax,

In six months after they have stopped pressuring you look back and then decide.

Missionaries want to add you to their numbers: numbers for lessons, numbers for fireside, numbers for baptisms... It isn't about what is best for you right now, it is about them.

Say, "No, thank you. Do not contact me in the future."

Focus on school and your own progress. Volunteer sometimes. That is all the responsibility you need at this point in your life.

Begin Rant

"This feels a bit self-serving"

Huh? Asking for help from people who are knowledgeable and experienced and eager to give it? No, I don't think that's properly called self-serving. It's called smart.

"there are parts of it that have been really horrible"

Clue.

"the fair weather friends from the LDS church"

It's called love-bombing. Feels great, right up until it doesn't.

"My mother only believes it’s a cult because that’s what the leaders at my childhood church have said."

Your mother is under no obligation to explain herself to you, or to do it well if she tries. She is satisfied that it is a cult. Your job is to do your own research (and being here is part of that) which you would have to do anyway even if she had a great argument and explanation for you.

"The Elders…well, they talk about how happy “the fully restored gospel” makes them."

Quit calling them elders when they're not around. They are not elders, they are not missionaries, they are salespeople. And high-pressure salespeople at that. What do you think they're going to say about the thing their selling, that it's crap? A salesperson's job (and sales is a noble profession, so long as everybody knows it's sales and not friendship) is to tell you everything you need to know -- and help you feel everything you need to feel -- to decide to buy what they're selling.

"But Mormonism hasn’t made me happy. I’m stressed out"

Imagine a lifetime like that.

"I feel physically ill whenever I try to read the Doctrine and Covenants."

Clue.

"I’m doing my best… Why isn’t that enough?"

Imagine a lifetime like that. Did I repeat myself?

"I’m kind of afraid of getting baptized"

Clue.

"They hate that I read things on here"

It's called information control. It's the beginning step of mind control.

"I’m tired of feeling the need to please them"

Imagine a lifetime like that. Did I repeat myself? Again?

"I just want to hit a “pause” button, so that I have time to actually think. But I can’t."

Yes, actually, you can. Just do it. Practice in front of a mirror if necessary: NO!

"I'm not sure when it turned into this...whatever this is."

When the mind control started to kick in.

End Rant

RUN!

That pretty much covers it.

Other good links are above... Take the 2 hours to read cesletter.com. That should be enough to equip you with reasons to stop this madness. Hey, as bonus credit, maybe you can ask the missionaries to answer the questions for you.

Also check out mormonessays.com. All of those essays are on the church's official website.

Well, it's done. I sent them a text, because I'm a people-pleaser and probably wouldn't have been able to find the willpower to cut them off if I had called them. Or maybe I would've. Regardless--I didn't want to take the chance. But if my TBM high school friend tries any of this crap when he gets back from his mission next week...he's not going to like the outcome. I'm tired of being manipulated. It's my own darn fault for contacting them in the first place, but the sense of betrayal is still there, whether justified or not.

Again, thank you to all of you!

And yes, JAR, the mind control did set in--unfortunately.

They will keep trying, we can guarantee that. Just keep saying, no, no, no, no, no. Or ignore them altogether.

You're doing great! Keep at it. And do keep reading this board. You will need to fully inform yourself about the Mormon church in order to understand why you were so vulnerable to being recruited.

Your subconscious mind is listening! Humor aside, when you label yourself as this, whether speaking to others or to yourself, it's like you're writing yourself off. Try to say something like this instead, "Sometimes I find it hard to disappoint other people, even when it would be in my best interest."

Plus, look at the fortitude you have displayed in this situation. Today you can be saying, "I have done a courageous thing in standing up for myself."

I hope you are getting help, professional help, with your depression. Remember that when you are depressed your resistance to the demands of other people is very low. You can't easily summon the energy to bear up against a strong personality. True confession: years ago I was depressed,doing stuff around the house, and it came to pass that two young, dynamic, enthusiastic commission salesmen of $60 spot-remover came to my door. Ya know what? I bought some. It was easier on me to say yes than to say no. By the way, I recently came upon the never-used, bottled spot-remover in the garage and dumped it in the trash. It might have been great stuff but the memory of the transaction is pretty sour.

You did good. Pat yourself on the back!

They are going to drop in on you unannounced.

Write out your script, practice delivering it. Or if possible,turn your mother lose on them!!

Thankfully, my mother has made it clear to them that they aren't welcome at the house. I doubt that'll be enough. But a girl can dream, I guess...

Hi, I tried to pull some recent stuff from this site together for you.

Here’s a good link to read stuff from.

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/topics_by_subject.htm

I thought this was a good post for an investigator.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1503515,1504754#msg-1504754

and this post …

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1484345,1484376#msg-1484376

and this thread …

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1507854

and …

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1483202

and …

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1466092



Hope this helps. I don’t recommend you join. This org tears people up like paper. Good luck, and best wishes in making your choice.

And for some people pleasing advice (people pleasers often struggle with LDS advances ... )

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1483419,1484461#msg-1484461

You may never totally comprehend what a bullet you have dodged. But those of us here who do know are happy you've been spared.

Run. Run like the wind.

But come back here as often as you need to.

leftfield...I think I'm starting to realize it (sort of), on some small level.

Everyone--I'm going to have to call them. Their phone almost never receives my texts as anything but blank. But "no" means "no." I can do this.

Yes, you CAN do this.

You have already spent an entire year of your life saying "NO!" to everything. Of course, you don't remember doing that because you were only two years old at the time. (Your mother can explain this to you if needed.) Just do that again, with the missionaries, I mean salespeople.

No matter what they say, or what they ask, you say "NO!". After a while they will realize that there is no point in even trying to have a conversation with you. THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT. For them to realize it's OVER.

Yes, you CAN do this.

JAR

And it is much better to learn how to say no and enforce your personal boundaries now than when you are older. And it IS hard. It DOES take practice. Think to yourself the advice you would give a friend about the issue. This skill will serve you well not just in this situation but in many many others in your life. Another thing this is helping you learn is "that feeling" - LISTEN TO IT! There will be times when people or situations just don't "feel" right. It is a warning from things your subconscious has picked up on. Might be someone that wants to date you, someone that wants to room together, someone that wants to borrow your car, a job, many many things. When it comes to buying things be it a vid game or a religion always beware of the hard sell. If a product is good a salesman will just show you his product and it will sell itself. And if someone is willing to sell you a diamond ring for a dime, you can bet it isn't worth a nickle.

Another big red flag that it IS a cult - look what we have had to do to get OUT!
http://www.exmormon.org/remove.htm

If they still keep hounding you tell them to go read these off THEIR OWN website. How could anything be untrue or "anti" if it is DIRECT off lds.org?

Mountain Meadows Massacre
http://www.lds.org/topics/mountain-meadows-massacre

Book of Mormon and DNA Studies
https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies

Spalding Manuscript
http://www.lds.org/topics/spaulding-manuscript

First Vision Accounts
http://www.lds.org/topics/first-vision-accounts

Are Mormons Christian?
http://www.lds.org/topics/christians

Book of Mormon Translation
http://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation

Race and the Priesthood
http://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood

Plural Marriage and Families in Early Utah
http://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-and-families-in-early-utah

Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints?lang=eng

Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo
https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng

The Manifesto and the End of Plural Marriage
https://www.lds.org/topics/the-manifesto-and-the-end-of-plural-marriage?lang=eng

Becoming Like God
https://www.lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng

Book of Abraham
https://www.lds.org/topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng



As a girl you may find this one of the most interest - about all the girls/women Joe Smith had -
https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng
More info in this thread-
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1438886,1438886#msg-1438886

And I will warn you your friend is going to come home all hyped up from his own brainwashing. That is really what a mission is all about. Not so much to convert others but to solidify the member in the cult. If you are interested you can start a thread asking what really goes on in MTC the Missionary Training Center. It's not pretty.

If you need help with anything I am admin around here and you can get me at ExMoLight@gmail.com

Interesting choice of words....usually only TBM's use terms like "investigator" and "the elders".

Well...a couple of things:

My mother only believes it’s a cult because that’s what the leaders at my childhood church have said. She knows nothing about what they believe. She just accepts what the church leaders say and parrots it back to me. “It’s a cult!”"

If you're looking for people here to say, it isn't a cult, good luck. Many people here believed as your mom does. Research this site and you'll find the info you're looking for to dispute the nicey-nicey...milk before the meat mormony claims.



The Elders…well, they talk about how happy “the fully restored gospel” makes them."

Guess what?? Catholicism makes people feel the same way, as does Protestantism/Lutheranism. You want to know what else?? People selling a bogus product/service/scheme ALSO get happy when they think you're about to buy in.



Sometimes, I start crying for no reason. I feel like I just want my life to come to a halt. I don’t want to die. I just want everything to end. In the grand scheme of things, this is no big deal."

Ok, now it is serious. If you truly feel this way, you need to get some nonmormon, nonreligious counseling. Don't worry about what the happy happy elders think or say...the same with your family. You need to get help for YOU first.

Lots of good advice in this thread, and I can only add:

Whhhhhhyyyyyy would you want to join the LDS church? (And pleeeease don't do it for hormonal reasons)

The missionaries are NOT trained clergy; they HAVE, however been inculcated in the church so that they may not know any better--they are "church broke", and if not, they are doing it to please their family and get home ASAP to get married so they can release their natural urges. They are part of the sales staff of a large corporation that wants your money. If you don't think that's true, ask why you can't go to the temple unless you're a faithful tithe payer. The poorest of the poor can pretty go and pray in any other church...

It's a made-up religion, cribbed from the Old and New Testaments, Masonry, various philosophers and widely held beliefs of the 19th Century, along with whatever popped into Joseph Smith's head. And since its doctrines are "a little from column A and a little from column B" they often don't even jibe with each other. That doesn't really make sense for "New and Everlasting" and "Restored", even though they might say "It's the miracle of continuing revelation". Hogwash. God wouldn't make massive mistakes and then have his "prophets" fix them later. He's supposed to better than that. He's...you know...GOD.

They can't even get the First Vision straight, and that's one of the first things the missionaries pitch!

They think they can reel you in if they can bait the hook with an "answer" to a life situation or problem you have, or perceive you have.

If you get baptized, they will own you; don't waste your time.

Own yourself. If you need help, by all means, DON'T let depression or anxiety stop you, go get help. I've been there.

Oh, and tell your Mom how much you love her.

And another question for the mishies, details of which RfM can help you with--you say you've read the BoM twice (congratulations for staying awake).....

Ask "What LDS doctrine is in the BoM?"

For containing the Fullness of the Restored Gospel, there ain't much....

Just tell them you looked at all the options and decided to go with the telestial kingdom, because you don't want to practice polygamy and sit in church meetings for eternity.

Supposedly Joseph Smith once said if we could realize the greatness of even the telestial kingdom, we'd kill ourselves immediately to get there.

That's good enough for me.