. . . to marry Him with claims of angels of death, manipulation Thru tuilt trips and promises of salvation.

In a previous thread, RfM poster "atheist&happy:-)" asserted that Joseph Smith "attempted to seduce 12-year-old Mary Elizabeth Rollins in 1831":

"Section 132, of the 'Doctrine and Covenants,' is the retroactive 'official' 1843 'revelation' by Joseph Smith for the practice of polygamy. It was officially 'given' to him ten years after he had secretly taken his first plural wife, Fannie Alger, about 17 years of age, in 1833 ('Origins of Power,' p. 619, D. Michael Quinn), and 12 years after he attempted to seduce 12 year old Mary Elizabeth Rollins in 1831 ('Emma Hale Smith,' p. 65). Joseph did later marry Mary Elizabeth, in February 1842 (after he had made two more attempted persuasions towards a secret marriage), while she was still the wife of Adam Lightner, thus making bigamy part of the Law of Polygamy."

"('Marriage of Joseph Smith and Emma Hale,' http://www.exmormon.org/pattern/josemma.htm)

"I believe he was a pedophile, con man, thief, adulterer, etc."

("He attempted to seduce 12 year old Mary Elizabeth Rollins in 1831," posted by "atheist&happy:-)," on "Recovery from Mormonism" bulletin board, 17 March 2012, at: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,262342,446846#msg-446846)
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Indeed, below are the sordid details of Smith's pathological pursuit of Mary Elizabeth Rollins--an obsessive skirt chase that began when she was a 12-year-old girl and climaxed 11 years later when he finally captured her for his unholy harem.

--Smith Tells 12-Year-Old Mary Elizabeth that God Has Commanded Him in a Vision to Marry Her and that a Sword-Bearing Angel Threatened to Kill Him if She Didn't Obey (Sound Familiar?)--

Authors Linda King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery report Smith's snag line as follows in "Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith--Prophet's Wife, 'Elect Lady,' Polygamy's Foe":

"Mary Elizabeth Rollins claimed that Joseph had a private conversation with her in 1831; she was 12 years old.

"She said Joseph 'told me about his great vision concerning me. He said I was the first woman God commanded him to take as a plural wife.' [letter from Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner to Emeline B. Wells, summer 1905, LDS Archives]

"Although she did not become a plural wife of Joseph's until a number of years later, that early conversation planted a seed that Mary Elizabeth long rememered."
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--Failing on His First Try to Bed a 12-Year-Old Girl, Smith Goes for a 16-Year-Old One--

Newell and Avery write that "[w]ithin six months of Joseph's [1831] conversation with Mary Elizabeth Rollins, he and Emma had moved into the John Johnson home. Orson Pratt later quoted Lyman Johnson as saying that 'Joseph had made known to him as early as 1831 that plural marriage was a correct principle,' but remarked that 'the time had not yet come to teach and practice it.'

"Perhaps Joseph was not discreet in his discussions about plural marriage, because rumor and insinuation fed the fury of the mob that tarred and feathered him [in Hiram, Ohio, in March 1832]. When the Johnson boys joined the mob that entered their own home, they clear suspected an improper association between Joseph and their 16-year-old sister Nancy Marinda."
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--Predator Smith Continues Hot on Mary Elizabeth's Trail 'n Tail, Using Every Sick Trick in His Hat to Snatch Her (Even When She Eventually Had Married Another Man and Was Pregnant by Her Husband at the Time She Married Smith)--

Newell and Avery describe Smith's persistent polygamous pursuit of Mary Elizabeth--a sick quest that persisted over a decade:

"Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lighnter indicated that Joseph had first commented in 1831 that she would one day become his wife.

"Joseph approached her again in 1834 but, afraid of the unusual arrangement, she married Adam Lightner on August 11, 1835. Early in 1842, Joseph again reminded her that he had been commanded to take her as a wife. By this time, Mary Elizabeth said she had been dreaming for a number of years that she was his wife. She commented to Joseph, however, 'Well, don't you think it was an angel of the Devil that told you these things?'

"'No, it was an angel of God,' Joseph reassured her. 'The angel came to me three times between the year 1834 and 1842 and said I was to obey that principle or he would slay me.' Mary Elizabeth said Joseph told her that the last time the angel had come with a drawn sword and threatened his life. 'Joseph said I was his before I came here and all the devils in hell should never get me from him.' This extraordinarily powerful psychological and theological argument placed her in a contest between good and evil.

"Joseph held out one final argument that carried much weight in the eyes of those people who intended to live their lives by the word of God in order to inherit His kingdom. He offered salvation to Mary Elizabeth if she would accept his proposal. 'All that [God] gives me I shall take with me for I have that authority and that power conferred upon me.'

"Mary Elizabeth said she would not be married to him until she too had a witness. 'If God told you that why does he not tell me?'

"'You shall have a witness,' Joseph promised. Then he asked Mary Elizabeth if she was going to be a 'traitor.'

"'I . . . shall never tell a mortal I had such a talk from a married man,' she replied.

"Mary Elizabeth, who had been in Emma [Smith's] home often and had taught painting to Julia [daughter of Joseph and Emma], was mindful of another complication. She asked if Emma knew about her. Joseph neatly sidestepped the issue with an incomplete answer, 'Emma thinks the world of you.'"

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--In an Effort to Seal the Steal, Smith Then Blames Mary Elizabeth for Offending an Angel of God--

Newell and Avery write:

"After making Joseph's proposal the subject of prayer, Mary Elizabeth said 'an angel' passed silently through her room and out the window one night. After telling Joseph of the experience, she asked him why, if it was 'an angel of light,' it did not speak to her.

"'You covered your face,' he told her, 'and for this reason the angel was insulted.'

"'Will it ever come again?'

"Joseph thought for a moment, the said, 'No. Not the same one, but if you are faithful you shall see greater things thatn that.'

"He then predicted three signs would take place in her family. 'Every word came true,' she wrote."
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--A Fellow Polygamist Predator Performs the Marriage--

"Brigham Young officiated at her marriage to Joseph. [" . . . Young [performed] the marriage between Joseph and Mary Elizabeth in the room over the red brick store [in Nauvoo] in February 1842. Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner's entire account is found in Mary Elizabeth Lighnter to Emmeline B. Wells, summer 1905; ''Remarks,' Mary Elizabeth Lightner, given at BYU, 14 April 1905, typescript, BYU; and 'The Life and Testimony of Mary E. Lightner,' 'Utah Genealogical and Historical Magazine,' July 1926, pp. 1-44"]"
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--Mary Elizabeth Later Recounts that She Knew Smith Had Fathered Children Whose Biological Connection to Him Had Been Hidden Under Other Names--

Newell and Tippetts note how Mary Elizabeth was aware of children sired by Smith but raised under aliases:

"Persistent oral and family traditions insist that Joseph fathered children by at least four of his plural wives. Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner's comments illustrate the secrecy surrounding the birth of these children. As late as 1905 she commented, 'I knew he had three chidlren. They told me. I think two of them are living today but they are not known as his chidlren as they go by other names.'"

(Linda King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery, "Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith--Prophet's Wife, 'Elect Lady,' Polygamy's Foe," Chapter 4, "Seas of Tribulation: 1834-1838," Chapter 7, "A New Order of Marriage" (Garden City, New York: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1984, pp. 65, 98-99, 100-01, 318fn3, 324fn23)
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--Trying to Put Lipstick on a Pedophilic Polygamous Pig--

Essentially backing the Newell/Avery account of events, Mormon historian Todd Compton, in his book, "In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith," writes the following, while adding some bizarre details (but not mentioning that Smith had first approached 12-year-old Mary Elizabeth on becoming his plural wife back in 1831):

"By Mary's own account, she had had spiritual pre-sentiments that she would become Joseph Smith's wife: 'I had been dreaming for a number of years I was his wife. I thought I was a great sinner. I prayed to God to take it from me.' However, the prophetic dreams were fulfilled--Smith proposed to her in early February 1842 at the home of Newel and Elizabeth Whitney.

"In her later life she retold the story a number of times, which allows us to construct a fascinating, detailed composite account showing how Smith approached his prospective wives.

"First, after he introduced the idea of plural marriage to Mary, he told her that God had instructed him to marry her in 1834 but that he had been in Kirtland and she in Missouri. He said that he had been frightened of the idea at first but, he said, as Mary remembered it, 'The angel came to me three times between the year of '34 and '42 and said I was to obey that principle or he would lay [destroy] me.'

"Then he made an important statement: 'Joseph said I was his before I came here and he said all the devils in hell should never get me from him.'

"In her autobiography Mary wrote that Smith told her, 'I was created for him before the foundation of the Earth was laid.' So we have the doctrine of spirits matched in the pre-existence, a concept that give important insight into Smith's practicew of polyandry. It fits into the context of the broader 'spiritual wife' doctrine of the Burned-over District, in which spiritual affinities between a man and a woman took precedence over legal but non-sacred marriage. Perhaps the Mormon doctrine of the pre-existence derived in part from this influence.

"Smith also told Mary, 'I know that I shall be saved in the Kingdom of God. I have the oath of God upon it and God cannot lie. All that he gives me I shall take with me, for I have that authority and that power conferred upon me.' In other words, Smith linked plural marriage with salvation, as he did in later marriages. If Mary accepted him as her husband, her place in heaven would be assured."

"She did not agree to the marriage at first--she was married to and presumably in love with another man, and was skeptical of Smith's doctrine. She asked why, if an angel came to him, it had not appeared to her? She asked pointedly, wasn't it possible that the angel was from the Devil? Smith assured her that it had come from God.

"She replied that she would never be sealed to him until she had a direct witness from God. He told her to pray earnestly, for the angel had told him that she whould have a witness.

"As the conversation ended, he asked her if she would turn traitor and speak of this to anyone. She replied, 'I shall never tell a mortal I had such a talk from a married man!'

"She was undestandably troubled by this proposal. Nevertheless, she prayed about it and discussed it with the only person Smith would allow her to confide in, Brigham Young. One day she knelt between three haystacks and, she wrote, 'If ever a poor mortal prayed, I did.' She even prayed with her hands upraised, following the pattern of Moses.

"A few nights after that she was in her bedroom where her mother and aunt slept also, when, she later recounted, '[A] Personage stood in front of the bed looking at me. Its clothes were whiter than anything I had ever seen. I could look at its Person but when I saw its face so bright and more beautiful than any earthly Being could be and those eyes piercing me through and through, I could not endure it; it seemed as if I must die with fear. I fell back in bed and covered my head.' As she hid under her covers, her aunt awoke and saw 'a figure in white robes pass from our bed to my mother's bed and pass out of the window.'

"Mary soon related this to Smith, who explained the sign to her and predicted events that would take place in her family. 'Every word came true. I went forward and was sealed to him. Brigham Young performed the sealing and Heber C. Kimball the blessing.'

"This happened toward the end of February 1842 in the upper room of Smith's Red Brick store, the makeshift Masonic Hall. The marriage was 'for time and all eternity.'

"The prophet's sixth wife, approximately, Mary was 23 years old and pregnant with her third child by Adam Lightner durng the ceremony. He was out of town, 'far away' at the time, so probably did not know about it.

"Mary later commented on the polyandrous aspect of her marriage:

"'I could tell you why I stayed with Mr. Lightner. Things the leaders of the Church do not know anything about. I did just as Joseph told me to do, as he knew what troubles I would have to contend with.'

"So, Smith instructed her to stay with her husband. One obvious advantage to such a modus operandi was that it would preserve the secrecy of their polyandrous union.

"About a month after the marriage, on March 23, George Algernon was born to Mary in Nauvoo. Miles Henry was now six. Caroline one-and-a-half. On April 14, Mary was accepted into the Female Relief Society of Nauvoo and on June 9 she contributed $1.00 to it.

"Adam Lightner was back in Nauvoo by July 1, when he boutht a hat at the Joseph Smith store."

(Todd Compton, "In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith," Chapter 8, "Miracle Tale: Mary Elizabeth Rollins (Lightner Smith Young)" [Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books,1997. pp. 211-213)
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No matter how hard pologists try to perfume it, Joseph Smith was one pedophilic, prevaricating, perverted puppy.

(see related thread at: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1163039)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2014 12:54PM by steve benson.

Well, he may have very well been a pedophile. Did the word 'pedophile' even exist in those days?

The word "genocide" did not exist until 1944 when Raphael Lemkin published his book "Axis rule in occupied Europe". According to your logic Jews who suffered through the holocaust were not victims of genocide merely because the word did not exist. Not to mention genocides all over the world over many centuries, including of the Native North American population after colonisation.

Many example like this can be found where wrong actions are defined well after the events. The word "rape" was first used in the late 14th century. I can assure you that rape was occurring well before this as a form of control within marriages/relationships, torture and war practice.

In summary, just because a term is yet to be defined, the action is no more justified.

Grooming. He was grooming many others at the same time. Each one had the same story. I'm sure many did not fall for it, but kept it a secret. It's sick.

Steve (others):

is any of this mentioned in Rough Stone Rolling?

TBM Response: "Yeah Benson, but I've heard Miss M.E. Rollins had the body of a 13-year-old!"

OK. Made that up. Still ... continue to ever be amazed at LDS pretzel logic attempting to square the logic circle of a late-30's horndog luring in innocent children. To rape them. TSCC can never escape that fact. EVER!

Reading about the life of Abe Lincoln, like Joe Smith a resident of western Illinois in the 1840s, no one has to create a fantasy around his life.

Thank you for the posting Mr. Benson. And I fully support roland here. Whenever I hear TBMs spout the Joe Smith buffering "No man is perfect" nonsense I generally go word-ballistic with "And Hitler built many fine roads. Nobody's perfect."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2014 03:13AM by tenaciousd.