What's TSCC's official stand on evolution? I left young and so I either never knew or forgot. I remember asking my dad once as a kid if the whole thing about dinosaur's was a lie because I didn't know how that could fit in with what I knew about "the" church. His reply surprised me. He said that Heavenly Father could have certainly created dinosaur's before he created Adam and Eve. Unfortunately, I was too young to start asking about dates.

I was always taught that the earth was made from parts of other planets and that's where the fossils come from and the dating. My dad always uses the analogy that a house can be new but made with old wood etc and if a scientist came along and tested the wood he would say the house was as old as the wood...blah blah blah. Man that's stupid.

SayHi2Kolob4Me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was always taught that the earth was made from
> parts of other planets and that's where the
> fossils come from and the dating. My dad always
> uses the analogy that a house can be new but made
> with old wood etc and if a scientist came along
> and tested the wood he would say the house was as
> old as the wood...blah blah blah. Man that's
> stupid.

Unfortunately for your Dad, that argument doesn't fit the facts. There is a thin iridium layer all around the earth that was deposited millions of years ago when a giant meteor/asteroid smacked into what is now the gulf of mexico off the Yucatan peninsula. The ensuing "nuclear winter" was a major contribution to the extinction of the dinosaurs.

If this earth were "made from other earths," that tell-tale iridium layer would not be there all around the world at the same depth where it was deposited 65 million years ago.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2012 01:50AM by baura.

Nice try, but I'm sure god put the iridium layer around the earth to test our faith. He apparently does a lot of stuff like that.

Interestingly enough, all of my seminary teachers and SS teachers and even institute teachers avoided that question.

I remember asking sincerely in a SS class if we should ignore the fossils and scientific evidence of that sort, and what I got is anothe questions, "Well, do you believe in God? What's your testimony about that?"

Yes, that's how mean and cruel some SS teachers can be. Instead of answering or discussing my question or politely setting the question aside, that teacher tried to make feel that I didn't have enough faith in God or my testimony was not strong enough.

I was taught that there is no official position on evolution, but lots of Mormons are very skeptical of it and most believe in a literal Adam and Eve.

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was taught that there is no official position on
> evolution, but lots of Mormons are very skeptical
> of it and most believe in a literal Adam and Eve.


I was never taught that, because everyone I came in contact with made it sound as though the church is against it.

I studied Biological Anthropology in a class taught by a BYU Professor. He had a thick file of everything LDS and evolution. You are right that the church doesn’t have an official position. And those GA’s that overzealously talk like the church is against it in devotionals and such have later had to retract it quietly.

From his materials that I copied, it seems that David O McKay thought that Evolution was likely, though didn’t let the church have an official opinion. And the Professor thinks that some GA’s believe in it, and some don’t.

I think you are right that it was David O' McKay who claimed there was no position. At any rate, I knew several Mormons who did believe in evolution and I know it is taught at BYU. My high school biology teacher was as TBM as they get but he firmly believed in and taught evolution. My best friend's dad was in the bishopric and her grandfather was in the stake presidency and they both believed in evolution and were outspoken about it. It is true that many people were less enlightened



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2012 05:33AM by bona dea.

They don't have an 'official' stand on very many things, including Evolution.

Has anyone seen this video with Ugo Perego?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ilin4lt0nQ

12:20
Perego talks about biological hominid "human like form" given a second creation when god gave it a spirit.

13:50
a creature that has everything but the spirit is not a man

14:30
man was a creation just like the animals but then god gave him a spirit

14:50
he became man when god gave him the spirit

29:20
many hominids then god took one, adam and made him the first of the children of god

anon for this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has anyone seen this video with Ugo Perego?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ilin4lt0nQ
>
> 12:20
> Perego talks about biological hominid "human like
> form" given a second creation when god gave it a
> spirit.
>
> 13:50
> a creature that has everything but the spirit is
> not a man
>
> 14:30
> man was a creation just like the animals but then
> god gave him a spirit
>
> 14:50
> he became man when god gave him the spirit
>
> 29:20
> many hominids then god took one, adam and made him
> the first of the children of god



I tried listening. Fell asleep after two minutes.

If what you have is correct, Ugo is a racist. Apparently all humans lines present that existed prior to about 6 thousand years ago are from godless humans. Only some undefined white race is from god, according to him.

If other molecular biologists get wind of this, Ugo's credibility would be wrecked. He's trying to fit a myth into science and they'll know it. They won't comment publicly but they would be suspicious of him hereafter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2012 08:52AM by Jesus Smith.

What kind of insane bullshit is that anyway?

"Man was created in God's image. God just happens to look like a hominid that existed for thousands or millions of years before He added spirits to them!"

TSCC has no "official" stand on evolution.

I don't think the Mormon church has an official position on anything. And if it did, it would have no issue changing it on the fly.

I had two classes in the old Joseph Smith Memorial Building back-to-back. The first was a New Testament class taught by Lamar Garrard. Garrard was a cranky old man who railed on the "theory" of Evolution. He called it a damnable false doctrine of Satan taught to deceive intellectuals, and he quoted Joseph Fielding Smith who said that the Earth is less than 6000 years old and that death entered the world with the fall of Adam. Joseph Fielding Smith, said Garrard, was a modern-day prophet.

So, the bell rang, and I went upstairs for my next class. That was Biology 100 taught by Bradshaw and Barnes. They had spent several days in that class going over the evidence in favor of Evolution, which was completely devastating and left no doubt that the Earth was billions of years old and that humans and other apes had a common ancestry. One of the facts was that human and orangutan DNA is more than 96% identical.

I don't think the Church has an official position either way, but it was fun to hear such wildly opposing positions like that as a student.

Not a word.

Maybe it was because the adults were still TOTALLY embarrassed by an Apostle, President of the Q12, and next-in-line to be Profit of the Lard who would actually stand up in public and say dopey things like this:

"CANNOT BELIEVE BOTH GOSPEL AND EVOLUTION. I say most emphatically, you cannot believe in this theory of the origin of man, and at the same time accept the plan of salvation as set forth by the Lord our God. You must choose the one and reject the other, for they are in direct conflict and there is a gulf separating them which is so great that it cannot be bridged, no matter how much one may try to do so."

"If you believe in the doctrine of the evolutionist, then you must accept the view that man has evolved through countless ages from the very lowest forms of life up through various stages of animal life, finally into the human form. The first man, according to this hypothesis known as the "cave man," was a creature absolutely ignorant and devoid of any marked intelligence over the beasts of the field."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1

And this:

"We will never get a man into space. This earth is man's sphere and it was never intended that he should get away from it. [...] The moon is a superior planet to the earth and it was never intended that man should go there. You can write it down in your books that this will never happen."
Joseph Fielding Smith, speech delivered at Stake Conference, Honolulu, HI, May 14, 1961;
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, Salt Lake City, Utah: Bookcraft, 1954–56, p. 203

And they had a valid point. For the life of me I cannot understand how someone can believe in evolution while maintaining that death and procreation didn't exist until 6000 years ago. The two are mutually incompatible.

Either there is death and reproduction or there can be no such thing as natural selection. It's either the fall or evolution, there is no middle ground, and anyone thinking there is is deluding himself/herself. But ofcourse, deluding themselves is precisely what mormons are masters at so I shouldn't be surprised.

The official stand is that it didn't happen for humans.
Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden circa 4,000 bc and that's where the human race started.

Then, circa 2,300 bc God got cheesed off and flooded the entire earth killing all the humans except Noah and seven others. So that's where the human race comes from.

I was in a gospel doctrine class full of scientists when the instructor tried to go all 'evolution is a theory made up by man but we know the truth' drivel and one of the scientists raised his hand and said 'Evolution is a Fact' it's no more a theory than gravity is.

My husband and I were just laughing, we went up to him after class and thanked him for his comment.

On the other hand my husband was pretty upset over one of the last conference talks where one of the speakers was once again saying that it was a man made story.

It is held by some that Adam was not the first man upon this earth and that the original human being was a development from lower orders of the animal creation. These, however, are the theories of men. The word of the Lord declared that Adam was “the first man of all men” (Moses 1:34), and we are therefore in duty bound to regard him as the primal parent of our race. It was shown to the brother of Jared that all men were created in the beginning after the image of God; whether we take this to mean the spirit or the body, or both, it commits us to the same conclusion: Man began life as a human being, in the likeness of our Heavenly Father.

Signed by The First Presidency in 1909 and republished in 2002
http://www.lds.org/ensign/2002/02/the-origin-of-man?lang=eng



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2012 10:03AM by Stumbling.

Thanks Stumbling!

When the church changes the temple film to be based on the Origin of the Species instead of the book of Genesis I will believe they are not creationist. They don't have a position because they know their position is not backed up with the facts. If they start allowing the creation story to be doubted then all the other wild and miraculous stories are suspect as wel and there goes their power. Also, without and Adam and a fall their is no need for a savior or a restoration. Accepting and promoting evolution would destroy the church by promoting a view of the world that is not directed by God, but the interaction of countless natural processes over millenia.

Part of the church's whole game is not really having any perfectly clear opinion on anything. Just take gay marriage for example, it's pretty clear that they're against it but aren't doing much about members going around and acting like the church is ok with it.

If their real beliefs about real issues were perfectly and publicly stated more people could see it for the fraud it is.

I agree Boston Bob. That's pretty much the impression I've been getting too. That's why I think it's important to spread ... (in this case find and spread) important proclomations given to us by the marvelous 15. If they have nothing to cover up, then they should be getting their divine inspiration out there for the spiritual edification of all men.

I don't think that the Mormon church has an official stand on ANYthing. Policy is just let everyone guess, then jump down their throats when it appears that they've wandered off the reservation.

All we do know--from which we can infer several answers--is that they teach and believe in a literal Adam and Eve. Now that's pretty stupid stuff.

"they teach and believe in a literal Adam and Eve"

and they use this picture -

http://www.lds.org/images/Manuals/tchg-pix.nfo:o:10c.jpg

If I were a good artist, I'd redraw that one with the tiger mauling the **** out of Adam.

Something tells me they would have been... a bit more disheveled looking, at the very least? And probably a bit blacker?

When will the LDS Church finally commission the pics with Christ, Adam, and all the prophets wearing missionary nametags from TSCC?

Wait... presumably they are in the Garden of Eden, otherwise the Lion would be eating them...

Why are they wearing clothes?

Har har! How observant of you! Perhaps it was just a little game ... to make themselves look like total asses and get a rise out of the tiger ...

Come to think of it, what was the tiger being fed anyway???

That's them!! I saw them on the silver screen once. The plot was lacking, but the woman was hot.

Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals?

A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.

Eve looks hawt with that hair wearing nothing but a leather mini skirt/dress is pretty seaxy. That picture looks like some LDS porn right there.