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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: June 21, 2012 06:26PM

(The following comes from "Subject: How FARMS actually submits its papers and research to 'peer review,' Date: Mar 19 01:02. Author: 'anon,'" [the thread features several excellent posts on FARMS and the subject of peer review], at: http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon333.htm)
_____


"I have a very reliable source who is familiar with how FARMS goes about the process of having its papers and research 'peer reviewed.'

"That process does not meet what is regarded in mainstream academia as generally accepted and credible standards for peer review.

"The way FARMS handles its 'peer reviewing' is as follows:

"1. FARMS does not submit its papers and research to academic journals for peer review. The publications to which FARMS does submit its work are not highly regarded in mainstream academic and scientific circles.

"2. FARMS does not submit its papers and research to non-Mormon scholars for peer review. FARMS would not dare do so, out of fear of what the non-Mormon reviewers would conclude about its work.

"3. FARMS submits its papers and research to a so-called 'in-group' for peer review.

"4. This 'in-group' consists of people who FARMS trusts and who are chosen by FARMS to do its peer reviewing.

"5. FARMS submits its research and papers to only those it is confident will not challenge the basic assumptions that underlie FARMS papers and research.

"6. These 'in-group' reviewers either belong to FARMS, are professionally related to FARMS or are sympathetic to FARMS.

"7. FARMS idea of a 'peer' review is to submit its works for review to like-minded peers.

"8. While these reviewers can be academically critical in their own right, they do not review FARMS materials outside the FARMS framework of mission and belief. FARMS submits its papers and research to only those whose basic conclusions it knows beforehand will be in line with the goals and beliefs of FARMS.

"9. In the end, FARMS is a pseudo-academic outfit that is isolated from mainstream academia. It serves as a propaganda arm of the Mormon Church, with its mission and purpose being to produce faith-promoting material for Mormon believers. Outside Mormonism, neither FARMS--nor its peer-reviewing process--are taken seriously."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2012 05:49AM by steve benson.

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Posted by: gannosu ( )
Date: June 21, 2012 06:35PM

I love this post. Years ago on LDSTalk I had argued with DCP and a Bob Bennett (not the politicial) that peer reviewed articles on FARMS was not really peer reviewed. That it was more like family members peer reviewing. I was beat down at the time and give up.

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Posted by: T-Bone ( )
Date: June 21, 2012 06:47PM

I think Mormons are smart in their use of wording. They rename their apologetic arm to include the word "Institute." Having been a fellow in a think tank, I know how easy it is to create an "Institute." The word now has as much credibility as the title CEO on a business card, now that every guy who joins an MLM gives himself the title "President and CEO of xyz Enterprises."

The process of peer review is a very rigorous process. It is much more than handing your paper to a friendly party. I do not know the inner workings of peer review of apologetic materials, but being very handy with making excuses, I am sure Mormons would complain that the only people qualified to review an article about "Reformed Egyptian" or "Book of Mormon Archaeology" are other Mormons.

For good measure, here is a little piece on per review as it applies to academic writing about Archaeology.
http://archaeology.about.com/od/pethroughpg/a/peer_review.htm

I doubt that apologetics follow this process.

T-Bone

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Posted by: anon for this one ( )
Date: June 21, 2012 06:49PM

the whole process of mormon scholars doing peer review for each other just sounds like a circle jerk to me. lol

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Posted by: xyz ( )
Date: June 21, 2012 07:11PM

I resemble that remark.

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Posted by: flyboy21 ( )
Date: June 22, 2012 11:36AM

Shoulda trademarked that when you had the chance...

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Posted by: xyz ( )
Date: June 22, 2012 11:42AM

I woulda.

LOL!

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Posted by: canadianfriend ( )
Date: June 22, 2012 10:46AM

Some have suggested that DCP should leave the church and become and exmormon. Not likely, but anything's possible.

I have to wonder: Do any of these folks at Fair, Farms or BYU realize what a weight would be lifted from their shoulders if they did get out of the church? No more cognitive dissonance, no more lying, no more ridiculous apologetics, no more sweeping stuff under the rug. Once they admitted to themselves how fake Mormonism is, they could hold their heads up, reclaim their personal integrity and have a real life!

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Posted by: esias ( )
Date: June 22, 2012 03:04AM

Spankingly enjoyable and my thanks for all posts on Maxwell/FARMS - watching them watching us seems to be a perverted sport.

Maxwell/Farms though remains an academic irrelevance, and we still await any paper that can add to the academic body of Mormon studies.

Watching these loonies stab each other in the backs is jolly good for a laugh.

Someone should sent Herr Grupenfuhrer Peterson a fat spliff as he'll have a lot of chilling time on his greasy hands.

Can anyone really be arsed to fight for Peterson's right to be a loonie?

Wah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

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Posted by: Outcast ( )
Date: June 22, 2012 10:52AM

They throw around those big words like, "academic research, peer-reviewed, and scholar" with such reckless abandon it makes them look like toddlers pretending to be grown-ups sipping tea and wearing big hats and big shoes.

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Posted by: Makurosu ( )
Date: June 22, 2012 12:01PM

I was a member of FARMS during the 80s and 90s before leaving the Church, but sometime about ten years ago they sent me a letter and a free issue to some magazine of theirs with the claim that their work was "peer reviewed" and other similarly ridiculous claims about the scholarly level of their work. One of the reasons I had given up on them was because I felt their work was obfuscatory and merely tried to *look* scholarly by using a lot of big words and rambling, sleep-inducing text -- Nibley's books in particular.

I had wondered how they seriously could make the claim that their work was peer reviewed, and it's nice to finally get the skinny on it.

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Posted by: Zig ( )
Date: June 22, 2012 12:14PM

DCP and others in that group are already working to create a new FARMS - one that isn't controlled by BYU.This site won't let me link to the blog providing the proof. Watch over the next few months as a new apologetic arm appears with DCP in it. Perhaps Dehlin's hit piece will finally surface, as well as more crap on the BOA.

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Posted by: Makurosu ( )
Date: June 22, 2012 12:50PM

I'm just glad it won't be a BYU organization. BYU is my alma mater, and these guys reflect poorly on me as a graduate of that school.

What about FAIR? Why don't they join up with that group, or is it a BYU group too? (I'm not really sure. FAIR was after my time.)

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Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: June 22, 2012 01:35PM

Sounds like climategate. I'm sure FARMS claims there is a scientific consensus that the church is true and the debate is over.

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Posted by: 3X ( )
Date: June 22, 2012 05:51PM

Tal Bachman on Daniel Peterson; be sure to read the last paragraph:



http://www.salamandersociety.com/apologetics/060315.html

10/11/2004 - by Tal Bachman


"Does Daniel C. Peterson ever lie in bed at night wondering if he's being taken advantage of by The Brethren?"

<quote>

...

I stayed up late night after night, trying to understand how on earth the apologists' non-sequiturs could actually be valid conclusions, how the distorted arguments weren't distorted, how the personal attacks were relevant, how the selective quotations from those they were arguing with didn't raise more questions about FARMS than about the very piece they were trying to refute, etc. I began to think I must be too dumb to understand how any of the stuff really made sense, or maybe that Satan himself was blinding me to the convincing arguments of the whole FARMS gang.

I later came to suspect that that was not the case, and that the actual reason I kept noticing such upsetting features in apologetic discourse, was because they were actually there (this is long before I ever discovered this board, or had any contact with anyone that had gone through a similar experience). This really disturbed me. I wondered why the church, which I was certain was everything I had ever imagined, could support such low, sophistic, stuff.

I even came to wonder eventually if perhaps all the double-talk and "sleights of thought" were deliberate. Some readers may remember that I even satirized DCP on here last month.

But after my interaction with Daniel Peterson, I am not sure that the rhetorical legerdemain and illogic is deliberate. I really think he has no idea how bad the stuff is - and why would he, really, when it's not eliciting criticism from the GA's? When he's surrounded with fellow believers that keep telling him and all the others, how great it all is? How long till the best of us begin to believe our own press? Are guys on the BYU payroll that realize how bad it is, actually going to pipe up? Of course not. (This is why anonymous peer review - EVEN if it was amongst other members in good standing - would do them good).

I think he sincerely believes that the contradictions are not contradictions, that the non sequitirs are perfectly valid, that the contorted stretches of illogic are stunningly simple rebuttals to "anti-Mormon cliches", etc. I don't think he has any idea that for many Mormons, FARMS apologetic material is what actually starts them on the road to piecing together that the church we have all had so much faith in, in fact, is not, and even more, can not possibly be, what it claims.

But whether he is or not, what we do know is: he has bet it all on the church. He is up late at night typing what he no doubt thinks are superb rebuttals to skeptics on the FAIR board, or editing the FARMS material, or preparing talks and essays, etc. This thing is his entire life (as well it should be, if the church is all it claims).

And this is why the specter of DCP kind of being used appears in the backs of our minds...How long would he last, if the church for one nanosecond thought he wasn't useful anymore? Does anyone at headquarters care that Dan Peterson and his whole crew are a laughingstock, that their material is literally beneath the dignity of criticism for those outside (and I think a growing number inside) the insular, parochial world of Mormondom? Does anyone at HQ care that DCP gets all the stick when he takes a bold stand, while the GA's (with a couple of exceptions) keep their mouths shut? Would anyone at HQ think twice about leaving Dan Peterson there holding the bag, once they decide that the position he's been defending just isn't working anymore, and so change it?
...

<endquote>

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Posted by: Heresy ( )
Date: June 22, 2012 06:03PM


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