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Posted by: peregrine ( )
Date: October 11, 2011 09:11AM

A few years ago our ward announced that they were going to be placing a new sign out in front of the building. They already had a nice brick sign that was working just fine. But they wanted a new sign, the type with the changeable letters like every other church in the south, one that now had a power bill associated with it, and required somebody to go out an change the message. I went on a YM activity with the bishop shortly after the announcement. I voiced my concerns that the sign would not get updated as frequently as they wanted. So the messages would be dated. I even predicted that after a while they would probably just put the meeting hours up and give up on trying to update the message frequently.
Well construction started on the sign and I was shocked at how close they put it to the road. I work for a major utility and I was concerned that they may have damaged some of our facilities. I didn’t see any of the spray paint indicating that they had marked the utilities. No sooner than they had the foundation poured a county inspector drove by and put a halt to the project. The new foundation was completely inside the DOT right of way and the county had already begun work to widen the road and put a turn lane in front of the building.
Of course the spin the local authorities put on it was that the church was being "persecuted" for wanting a sign. The county’s position was simply, “We’re putting a road here. If you build it we’ll pave over it in a few months.” It had nothing to do with the denomination of the church. Finally the church conceded, poured another foundation 20 back and built their new sign.
Currently the first foundation is buried under the new turn lane and newly relocated sidewalk. The new sign is black/dark brown metal and looks like a sign for an office park. When the lights are turned on the contrast is so high that you can't read the smal gold letters on the dark background. The half with the light up letters was used for about a 3 months to announce local events but it was out of date more often than it was current. So, just as I predicted, the removable letters now just read the meeting times and “”. The last letters are completely pointless since is already printed on the sign, albiet hard to read.
I stopped paying tithing the day they poured the first foundation that I knew was going to be paved over and haven’t paid a dime since.
Now I realize that this is peanuts compared to the waste of money in downtown SLC, but this is what brought it home to me that the Church was not spending the tithing dollars wisely.

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Posted by: btc ( )
Date: October 11, 2011 09:19AM

...the chapels with $50k steeples so that the squatting-turtle chapels would look more "churchy" and changing all the long-winded cult names on the chapels so that JESUS CHRIST was about twice as big as the other letters because they were being persecuted for not being Xian enough.

Lotsa money down the drain just because they're "inspired".

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Posted by: wine country girl ( )
Date: October 11, 2011 10:47AM

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2011 12:47PM by wine country girl.

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Posted by: axeldc ( )
Date: October 11, 2011 07:26PM

Those retrofit steeples stem from a lawsuit over the Boston Temple wanting a steeple. The steeple violated city ordinances, and LDS, Inc. argued that steeples were integral to their temples. Never mind that Mesa, Az, one of the oldest temples, has no steeples.

To prove their point, the put steeples on flatbed trucks and retrofitted their chapels with steeples. When I went home for Xmas, my 1980s family chapel had a steeple plopped on top. My dad said, "Oh, they just showed up one day and put it on top. We really have no idea why."

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Posted by: Misfit ( )
Date: October 11, 2011 11:08AM

I worked for an architect in downtown SLC at one time. We did alot of church work. We were hired by the church to place a standard meetinghouse on a hillside lot in the avenues. My boss tried to convince the powers that be to let him design a site-specific building due to the terrain, and it would be cheaper. They said no, just put the standard meetinghouse plan on the hill and make it work. So we did. My boss hired a civil engineer. He drew up plans for a series of retaining walls to flatten out the building pad, which we then sent out to bid, along with the building plans.

My boss found out right after the bid that the church hired another architect at the same time to design a site-specific plan. That one went out to bid as well and came in cheaper,(just like my boss predicted) so the church hired the other architect.

Needless to say, my boss was mad. And I remember thinking, "my tithing money went towards this exercise." Why I continued to pay tithing for another 14 years is beyond me.

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Posted by: WiserWomanNow ( )
Date: October 11, 2011 11:10AM

You were inspired enough to think about related factors and consequences, rather than merely, “We need a new sign, let’s quick stick one here!”

But of course, the Morg teaches that inspiration ONLY occurs top-down. So how could you, a mere youth in the church, have more insight than those higher-ups who decided to change the signs?

The day that a member realizes that he has more inspiration than the church leaders do, is the day he finds himself questioning why he is looking to them instead of within himself for wisdom.

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Posted by: peregrine ( )
Date: October 11, 2011 01:55PM

WiserWomanNow Wrote:
> So how could you, a mere
> youth in the church, have more insight than those
> higher-ups who decided to change the signs?

Just to be clear. I'm actually about the same age as my bishop. We spoke during a YM activity but I was there as a leader not a youth. Sorry for the confusion.

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Posted by: WiserWomanNow ( )
Date: October 11, 2011 05:50PM

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Posted by: wondering.. ( )
Date: October 11, 2011 05:45PM


I wondered the same thing about the "inspiration" for a new sign. I had also wondered down on the other end of the property the pavillion and and the area behind it. They had plans to make a small amphitheatre which was never done. Big ideas without the drive to complete them (X) spending tithing dollars (=) more waste! Just saying...

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: October 11, 2011 07:23PM

does it require to check the property line(s)?

Oh; that requires a surveyor,

which includes $

which includes Budget

which Includes SLC/COB.

got it.

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Posted by: peregrine ( )
Date: October 12, 2011 07:21AM


They are building the amphitheatre area with free labor from boy scouts. A member of the high council has divided the project up into "Eagle project" sized chunks. When I was SM I was asked to send as many boys as possible to him so the Stake could finish the amphitheatre. The Eagle board started looking really closely a all the projects and I think they were getting wise so they had to lay off doing so many project over there.

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: October 12, 2011 11:38AM

...and, because of his career as a major project supervisor, he was given the responsibility of overseeing the construction of a new stake center. This was back when local members raised a good portion of the money and donated labor, but also when the church was first trying to standardize things, including the church logo. I remember my father telling about the church building department's exacting specifications for signage on the new building. The church didn't want any changeable message signs -- because that's what the false churches had.

So I wonder if the church has reversed its signage policies or whether that bishop was acting without authorization.

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Posted by: peregrine ( )
Date: October 12, 2011 11:54AM

Stray Mutt Wrote:
> So I wonder if the church has reversed its signage
> policies or whether that bishop was acting without
> authorization.

Yeah I think they have. I'm pretty sure the new signs are part of the "I'm a Mormon" ad blitz.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2011 11:55AM by peregrine.

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Posted by: WiserWomanNow ( )
Date: October 12, 2011 12:00PM hopes of the Morg's remaining competitive for attractive more sheeple.

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