... I am not that impressed by the species Homo sapiens. We are kind of like a cancer on the earth.

p.s. - I'm not looking for a debate or rebuttal.

Anyone have a suggestion for a good place to watch the solar eclipse coming up?

What intrigues me more is your moniker, "atheist/Cultural Mormon." I'm not saying they're mutually exclusive but I am wondering just what you mean.

As a Christian, I see Mankind as very flawed, but still the special work of God, hardly a cancer on this bit of cosmic dust. AL-gore probably disagrees with me.

tell us what Al Gore has to do with it. And then tell us that human caused global warming is a hoax created by China. And then tell us why you should be allowed to post your bullshit politics.

Here goes the the thread!

*Polar ice, over-all, is growing. (And polar bear population increasing.)
*Sea levels are fluctuating very modestly, over-all dropping.
*Global temperatures have been dropping. "Global Warming" theorists have explained this as a "hiatus."
*Until the 1970s, a major drop in world temperature was predicted. The "experts" were wrong then, but not now?
*Hacking of the ICPP showed that peer-reviewed periodicals wanted the data revised (temperature records raised) to better establish the argument.
*The Warming hypothesis is based primarily on computer models, with much of the data suspect (I'm being charitable). For example, AL-gore's "hockey stick" graph has been proven to be fraudulent.
*For the 3rd summer in a row, a research ship could not complete its Arctic voyage because of excessive ice.
*Predicted increase in hurricane activity has not happened.
*Many scientists listed in advocates' ads were shown to have no expertise in climate science, and many stated their names were listed without permission.

This link states the case better than I can:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/clarifications-corrections/526191/Climate-change-is-a-lie-global-warming-not-real-claims-weather-channel-founder

I don't imagine John Coleman is invited to the proper cocktail parties anymore. I haven't the slightest idea of who thought up the Global Collapse Climate Change hyopthesis, but I'd look to Goldman-Sachs before I'd look to China.

No need to be so hostile, Dave. Can I disregard your invective as just a bad ice cube?

Back to the thread, the OP's moniker as "atheist/cultural Mormon" piques my curiosity, and I hope we can address that.

All but one of the statements in the list above are false...and the one that's not false is irrelevant.

A fine example of deciding ahead of time what to "believe," and not bothering to find out facts.

As for the OP, I'm with Aquarius123 -- why post in a public forum if you refuse any discussion about what you post? That's rather silly.

to post outright lies. It's kinda his "thing".

It's not enough to say you strongly disagree with me, and that I rely on different data and sources you consider suspect? To call somebody a liar means he knowingly and consciously misleads, either by false statements or deliberate.

Call me mistaken or misinformed, a heretic, or crazy, but don't call me a liar. That degree of hostility is uncalled for.

:( :( :( :(

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not enough to say you strongly disagree with
> me, and that I rely on different data and sources
> you consider suspect? To call somebody a liar
> means he knowingly and consciously misleads,
> either by false statements or deliberate.

I agree with your point.
However, the other poster didn't call you a liar.
He said the things you posted were lies.
That the lies originated somewhere else, and you posted them because you believe them, doesn't make them not lies.
That does, however, make you not a liar :)

> Call me mistaken or misinformed...

Yep, that :)

Sorry, Hie, that's splitting semantic hairs. Helamonster's intent was malicious, which I understand and try to overlook.

A very unfortunate aftereffect of a cult background is to divide the world into diametrically opposed "us-vs-them" camps, and to see "them" as not just different, but an enemy who has to be vehemently opposed, and that generates vitriol. And when people don't see it your way, well, what's WRONG with them?
Makes me think of a book, "What's the Matter With Kansas?" (cause they don't see it our way).

As I see it, this religio-Bolshevik* "us-vs-them" mindset persists, only to be applied to other issues. "Meet the new mindset--same as the old mindset..."

Posted, hopefully, maybe not, in a positive tone.

*How's that for a term?

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> *How's that for a term?

I like it :)

I don't know what the "intent" was. Maybe malicious, maybe not. I try not to assume intent when I don't know it.

I just know what was *written.* And what was written wasn't that you were a liar.

Splitting hairs? Sure. Maybe because I'm used to that in work, I see it differently than you. But I do see a difference between calling a statement a lie and calling the person providing the statement a liar. One is criticizing a statement, the other criticizing a person. A person can repeat a lie without knowing it's a lie...so they're not a liar, but the statement still a lie.

Me, I took a different approach, and said the statements were "false" -- avoiding, I hope, any reproach of calling you a liar! :)

"Caffiend likes to post outright lies." The clear implication is that that's Caffiend's intent.

Feel free to use the "religio-Bolshevism" term, gratis. Just think of me as the merry Menshevik, which makes you, what, the Nomenclatura? Maybe I better rethink that. Mensheviks got deported to Siberia--if they were lucky!

*The "Fie" applies to Kolob, not you--just to be clear.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2017 05:11PM by caffiend.

Nomenclatura...have to think about that one :)

You know I still love ya, right?

(man hugs!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2017 05:15PM by ificouldhietokolob.

I'll pick up on this thread in a few hours. I have to go to church. I'll be sure to pray for your sweet spirit.

:)

I don't get personal revelation very often. But tonight, wow! Never got such a clear message.

"Give up," I heard. "A truly lost cost, beyond all hope. Save your prayers for something or somebody that might work out..."
I'm not one to contravene instructions from the Other Side. Then it occurred to me, "Whoa, WHICH other side?"

Looks like you're still on my prayer list, Hie.

o:)

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't get personal revelation very often. But
> tonight, wow! Never got such a clear message.
>
> "Give up," I heard. "A truly lost cost, beyond all
> hope...

Are you talking to the same "spirit" Joseph did? 'Cause like his, yours needs a grammar/spelling lesson...

(lost cause)

:)

> Looks like you're still on my prayer list, Hie.

I sincerely appreciate the thoughts behind the idea.
Honestly.

Wishing well for people is a good thing, whether you do it through "prayer" or not.

I can address the hurricane issue, because I've read about it. Climatologists suspect that increased wind shear due to global warming may actually reduce hurricanes. The wind shear prevents the hurricane from becoming organized. There' no way of knowing for sure. These are projections. Global warming has already occurred.

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What intrigues me more is your moniker,
> "atheist/Cultural Mormon." I'm not saying they're
> mutually exclusive but I am wondering just what
> you mean.
> ======================================

I think it's kind of an OxyMormon.

The religion-creating ape. Things kind of went downhill after we started walking upright.

Guess that means you are not impressed with yourself.

Why did you come here and make that statement if you want no debate or rebuttal? What do you want?

I concur. Something seems fishy.

Yeah but music, art, theater, people behaving in self sacrificing ways in times of crisis. Anne Frank said "I keep my ideals, because in spite of everything I still believe that people are really good at heart.
How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world.
Whoever is happy will make others happy too."

Let's be like the Danish and hygge.

Lilac Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's be like the Danish and hygge.

I had to look it up...nice concept :)

"In both Danish and Norwegian, Hygge refers to "a form of everyday togetherness", "a pleasant and highly valued everyday experience of safety, equality, personal wholeness and a spontaneous social flow". It is distinct from but very similar to the feeling and state referred to with the Dutch word gezelligheid.

The noun "hygge" includes something nice, cozy, safe and known, referring to a psychological state. The antonym of hygge is uhyggelig, which translates as "scary".

Collins English Dictionary defines the word as "a concept, originating in Denmark, of creating cosy and convivial atmospheres that promote wellbeing"."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygge

What I like best about other languages is that you get a window into another culture and another way of thinking about things. I love those words that don't quite translate.

I always think of the human race as mealy bugs on a beautiful plant. Little fluff balls that eventually kill the plant in a slow painful way, stripping it of its beauty and health.

Some may point to the exceptions to the rule and they exist, like my hero Jane Goodall and Al Gore too and those like them. But they are few. A special nod to Fidel Castro who fifty years ago made a small island off limits because it was too close to the U.S. and as a result the population of animals, fish, coral are one of the few pockets of truly natural life left on the planet. I am sure Disney or someone is planning a resort hotel there even now as I type.

Overpopulation, selfishness, and greed are the norm. New technology for everyone at any cost! No need to earn it. Sugar is the new opiate of the masses--surpassed religion quite a while ago as religion became just an excuse for anything and everything.

Reciprocity and goodwill are on life support as people participate in the new triathlon of credit, hot new cars, and selfies. Americans are too self centered to realize that many countries in Europe have passed us up and we should stop calling ourselves the leaders of the free world and get a clue. Might does not make right. So yes, let's be like the Danish and Norwegians.

I feel powerless. And don't nobody tell me I could go join some group. My generation were the real groups. Now it's just a formulaic colored ribbon, a march with proceeds going to an organization with leaders who make half million bucks salary, and a chance to feel magnanimous because you participated for a few hours. Take a close look at where your pink ribbon money is really going.

So that is me not debating or rebuttle-ing as requested. To bring it on topic, I do believe the Mormon church is leading the charge. Like my mom says, "I'm not worried about the planet because Heavenly Father." and. "The world is a scary place but I live among all these wonderful Mormons." More Cool Whip anyone?

I hope the music, the art, and all the beauty of this world is enough to stop the leaves falling from the trees as the mealy bugs chew on it. Funny how somebody's hair looks like a fluffy mealy bug.

If our species did not exist...




Nobody would know.

Well, if we don't work out, we will go the way of the dinosaurs, plain and simple. I think the key to long-term human survival will be establishing multiple homes off-planet (the Moon, Mars, space stations, etc.)

Many other species are going extinct so that we can have our needs and wants supplied. Even the most modest person, who tries to live simply, leaves a huge eco footprint on the earth.

I've always thought humans were a scourge on the planet.

I once heard Kurt Vonnegut say humans were a "disease" on the planet.

You're not that far out there.

All we do is wreak havoc. And our culture doesn't mean sh!t to the remaining species on this planet that are suffering bc of us.

Instead of saying "we are kind of like..."

It should be "we are cancer to the earth"...... it's the slow growing type.....

IN ~






wait ~ ¿ wut is this thred about ? ~

Caffiend is full of it. Global warming is a reality. You can see, feel, and smell the pollution, but if you don't trust your own senses, you can rely on scientific evidence to prove it is reality.

p.s. - I'm not looking for a debate or rebuttal.

Just looking to read his own blather.

I have no personal beef with Caffiend (although I don't always agree with you ;-)

What worries me is that someone should consider the UK's Daily Express a source worthy of quotation. It's a terrible rag now. I can personally vouch for the fact that 95% of their articles about Europe are untrue. I have no reason to believe that their articles on climate change are any more accurate, particularly since the evidence of climate change is so clear.

Here in France, between 1983 when I moved here and 2003, there was one heatwave (more than 33°C daytime and 21°C nighttime). Since 2003, we have had at least 4 and I am currently suffering the effects of a heatwave in the South of France - 38°C daytime and 28-29°C nightime. A few days ago, we had the hottest night since records began in the 19th century. The relative frequency of such episodes indicates that the climate is changing. In that context, continuing to add CO2 to a system which we are still a long way from understanding would seem the height of imprudence. We're going to have to move on from CO2-generating technologies anyway because we know they're not a good idea. Now seems the right time to start doing it.

Tom in Paris
moving very slowly ;-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2017 06:51AM by Soft Machine.

I have to agree with the OP.

Sometimes I really am ashamed to be human. not that we are 'all' bad, but we certainly have mismanaged our planet pretty terribly and people still don't seem to get it.

We seem hell bent on destruction of our environment and resources with no end in sight to the greedy industrial military complex reign.

Once we fully pollute our planet we will of course go down with it. Sadly we are taking too many other life forms with us. It's already very evident how much the degradation of our environment has directly impacted human health. So many young people dying of cancers now who had seemed 'perfectly healthy' with no explanation to their illness.

People are distracted by all of their new high tech toys and don't even understand that they are toxic to themselves and the whole planet.. We are constantly lied to by authorities and have become complacent about the world's problems because we feel helpless to do anything to stop those ruling us. Because we are helpless. As a long time environmental activist I know this for a fact.. huge public outcries against fracking (just watch the movie 'Gasland' to find out just how bad that practice is), GMOs, military use of national parks for weapons testings (see what's going on with the Olympic National forest), rivers choking with plastics in asia, whole islands of trash on the oceans, one as big as Texas, skies in China that are so thick with factory smog you can't see the sun with half the population there suffering from black lung..

I could go on. The picture is very grim and it's all our doing. Sociopaths running everything is the problem, global capitalism is another, unconcern for public safety, for clean air, food and water, profits over human life, over all life really.

It's f-ed up. I live as low impact as I can, but it's not perfect because the system we live in makes it impossible to live as low impact as we could be.

But I still value human life because I am humans and there are many humans I love. But I see that we are a very destructive species and it will ultimately catch up with us. Maybe very soon. Yes natural disasters are other types of destructive forces. But the damage we are now capable of is staggering and on par with if not worse than what nature is capable of. What other species of animal pollutes it's own food and water source?

We have even managed to pollute space (see - space junk)..

what really really annoys me though is how religious people, esp. Mormons and other fanatical christians, think it's all okay because Christ is coming again to save the good people (and apparently they are 'good' even when they knowingly pollute food air and water sources and their products kill children and make men and women sick and die..) and Christ is going to fix the earth so that it's like a garden of eden again. First it will be destroyed by fire so if we contribute to that destruction (i.e. nukes, other bombs, and via other poisons), than we are actually doing God's work!!!!!!!!!

Likewise so many people (not necessarily religious) think that technology is going to save us and so don't worry about anything or think about their part in things and what kinds of things they can do to help our planet. We do have consumer power, though that's about it. And sometimes we don't even have that if all we can afford is the Chinese junk and can't buy decent products that will last.. or if you can't find good products even if you have the money (very very hard to find any clothing that will last more than few washings these days, this is intentional since it means we will buy more, etc.).. So we are stuck in a corrupt system that will destroy us all.

I still try to do what I can to make things better. But still it's hard to always think good things about myself and other humans. Though I try not to get into the trap of feeling sinful unworthy and responsible for the entire world and it's salvation, since those are all the cult's brainwashing techniques…

But yeah it sucks, the masses are in serious denial and in my mind it doesn't have to be about what was first called global warming and then climate change to ruin us. We will ruin ourselves when we've poisoned everything to the point of no return (radiation fallout from Fukushima still going on, still poisoning our food and water, just one example.. but a big one.. all we need is more reactors to fail and we are royally screwed.. or some crazed lunatic to drop some A bombs, pesticide laden crops, chemically contaminated water supplies (from fracking and other industries)…

_ Also most people have no clue about EMFs being dangerous, so they think that solar power and electric cars will save everyone but solar power creates crazy dirty electricity from the inverters (still I think that solar could be a good thing if we can correct that aspect) and dirty electric causes cancers and other diseases. (I personally get migraines around those inverters). .. And the EMFs in electric cars are way too high to be healthy for humans driving them.. also EMFs from cell towers and cell phones and wifi is at seriously destruction proportions worldwide now and causing a myriad of global health problems and seriously disrupting migration for bees and birds as they can't hone into the earth's natural EMF anymore. Native EMF (from the earth and sun) are a lot different than man made non-native EMF, it's something that we and all life forms have adapted to over billions of years, but we are not adapted to or equipped to handle non-native EMF really of any kind, but some sources are much more damaging than others (microwave radiation frequencies used for wireless devices).. so many have already died of brain tumors and cancers from near cell towers and cell phone use. The brain tumors for example are at epidemic proportions and have been directly linked to cell phone use. I don't have a cell phone anymore because I was getting too sick myself and no longer could tolerate them and I don't use wifi, I used a wired internet connection (yes there is such a thing still), and I live away from cell towers (thankfully, but it's almost impossible to find places away from them and now with 5G coming along which is an even much more dangerous frequency to be exposed to by the way.. they want to put smaller antennae transmitters on people's private properties and just everywhere and making it illegal to stop them..)..

Anyway end of rant.. just it's irritating how much the public has been kept ignorant of these hazards because of massive profits.. the wireless industry is a 4 TRILLION dollar a year industry and causes more air pollution worldwide (people forget it takes power from somewhere for the wireless network to work, it's not 'magic') than the aviation industry.

funny how real hard verifiable scientific data is not provided.......

<sarcasm>This ground breaking study just released from UCLA.....</sarcasm>

http://www.seattlepi.com/science/article/Your-pet-is-destroying-the-planet-says-UCLA-study-11732687.php

Yup it's all of your fidos and felines that are the cause of the decay...

Surely can't blame it on humans ----- we couldn't possibly be the cause....