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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 05:52AM


--Don't Be Fooled by the Mormon Cult's Latest High-Spun Ploy of Releasing Pictures of Joseph Smith's Rock-in-the-Hat Peepstone "Translation " Tool

An increasingly worried Mormon Cult--against all of its dishonest instincts--has been forced to release increasing amounts of evidence about inconvenient historical realities that it long has sought to minimize and deny.

The party's over. It's time for Mo Inc. to wake up and smell The Think.

The latest example of this dawninig situtional awareness involves Joseph Smith's occult-magic peepstone which--as history informs us--he plopped into a hat, into which he then stuck his face and squinted in order to purportedly "translate" the Book of Mormon by reading its English translation as it appeared on the top of the rock.

What a bummer for the believers. All these years they've been told by the Cult that Smith and his scribe worked together--with Joseph uttering the "translated" words without being having to be bent over face-first inside a hat.

(SPOILER ALERT: Even with photos now out on the "sacred" rock, the Mormon Cult won't be letting its members, or anyone else for that matter, view this "magic" stone in a direct, public setting. Rather, this outted rock from inside Mormonism's shoe will remain safely locked up in the Cult's tightly-controlled vault--where truth goes to die).

Nonetheless, that isn't keeping the Mormon Cult from tooting its tin horn about its long-delayed release of photos of this supposedly divinely-powered paperweight.

Of course, if the Cult had had its way, the rock would have never seen the light of day.

But, alas, the Mormon Cult now finds itself in the increasingly uncomfy position of not being able to call the shots.

Elohim, meet the Google God.

He's much more user friendly, mainly because he doesn't require people to fall on their knees in a grove of trees and empty their wallets in order to get answers to questions starting with the word "Why?"

For the Google God to dispene enlightenment, all you need is a mouse--and down comes the Mormon house.

The latest headlines underscore the Death Star data dilemma threatening LDS Central's control of its imaginary Kolobian neighborhood.

The 5 August 2015 issue of the UK "Daily Mail"/"Associated Press" heralds another chapter in the unfolding battle of the Brave, New, World Against the Crippled Backwater Mormon Cult-de-sac:

"Seen for the First Time in 185 Years: Mormon Church Releases Photos of 'Seer Stone' Used by Religion's Founder to Decode Eguptian Scripts that Became the Book of Mormon"

The first graph delivers the good news:

"The Mormon Church, for the first time, is publishing photos of a small sacred stone called 'the seer stone' it believes founder Joseph Smith used to help translate the story that became the basis of the religion. The pictures of the smooth, brown, egg-sized rock are part of a new book that also contains photos of the first printer’s manuscript of the Book of Mormon.

"Officials with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints unveiled it on Tuesday at a news conference in Salt Lake City.

"It’s the religion’s latest step in a push to be more transparent about its history and tenets. . . . Questions [have] emerged about the burgeoning faith, with some criticizing it for being secretive about its beliefs and practices. . . .

"The pictures in the new book show different angles of a stone that is dark brown with lighter brown swirls, the size and shape of an egg. The photos also show a weathered leather pouch where the stone was stored that is believed to be made by one of Joseph Smith’s wives, Emma Smith.

"The Church has always possessed the stone--which was transported across the country during [the] Mormon pioneers’ trek from Illinois to Utah in the mid-1800s--but it decided to publish the photos now to allow people who prefer visuals to words to better understand the religion’s roots, said Richard Turley, assistant Church historian.

"The stone will remain in the vault.

"'The picture brings a kind of tangibility to something that has been previously been talked about just in words,' Turley said. 'That helps people connect with the past. We’ve discovered that artifacts and historical sites are a way to give a sense of reality to things that are otherwise somewhat ethereal.'

"The Church has been releasing books containing historical documents that shed light on how Smith formed the Church. The religion also has issued a series of in-depth articles that explain or clarify some of the more sensitive parts of its history that it once sidestepped, such as the faith’s past ban on black men in the lay clergy and its early history of polygamy.

"The ubiquitous use of the Internet today--and accompanying searches about the faith’s roots, tenets and beliefs--have also played a factor in the Church’s decision to open more of its vault.

"'The Internet brings both challenge and opportunities,' said Steve E. Snow, Church historian. 'We’re grateful for the opportunity to share much of collection through the use of the Internet.'"

You're "grateful," you say?

Yeah, right.

You guys never know when to stop the lies.

--But Hold Your Tapering-Off Book of Mormon Tapirs: Let's Not Give the Mormon Cult Credit That It Has Neither Earned or Deserves

Experience has shown that the Mormon Cult only releases hidden information in is stingy possession when it is relentlessly pressed to do so. With that in mind, let's do a quick historical review of deliberate acts of lying and deceit involving the Mormon Church's sleight-of-hand misdirects when it comes to Joseph Smith's rock-in-the-hat "translation" of the Book of Mormon.

That disreputable record shows that the Mormon Cult has been dragged, kicking and screaming, into the public glare of confession for its sins of commission and omission.

--Mormon Founder Joseph Smith Used a Garden-Variety Rock (JOne That He Found While Digging a Well for a Friend)--Not Godly Revelation--to "Translate" the Book of Mormon

From a now-famous letter--written in April 2013 to a CES director by a LDS member who had lost his faith--explaining why Smith's rock-in-the-hat "decoding" of the Book of Mormon helped destroy not only his belief in, but also the credibility of, the unmasked Mormon Myth;

"Unlike the story I’ve been taught in Sunday Schools, Priesthood, General Conferences, Seminary, EFY, Ensigns, Church history tour, Missionary Training Center and BYU . . . , Joseph Smith used a rock in a hat for translating the Book of Mormon.

"In other words, he used the same 'Ouija Board' that he used in his days treasure hunting where he would put in a rock--or a peepstone--in his hat and put his face in the hat to tell his customers the location of buried treasure. He used the exact same method while the gold plates were covered, or put in another room, or buried in the woods during translating the Book of Mormon.

"These facts are not only confirmed in [Richard Bukshman's] 'Rough Stone Rolling' (pp. 71-72), by FAIR . . ., by the Neal Maxwell Institute (FARMS), . . . but also in an obscure 1992 talk given by Elder Russell M. Nelson.Book of [the] Mormon translation that the Church portrays to its members . . . .

"I’m now supposed to believe that Joseph has the credibility of translating the keystone Book of Mormon? With a rock in a hat?

"That the gold plates that ancient prophets went through all the time and effort of making, engraving, compiling, abridging, preserving, hiding, and transporting were useless?

"Moroni’s 5,000 mile journey lugging the gold plates from Mesoamerica (if you believe the unofficial apologists) all the way to New York to bury the plates, come back as a resurrected angel, and instruct Joseph for four years, only for Joseph to translate instead using just a…rock in a hat? . . .

"What happens when a member [ comes across . . . Nelson’s obscure 1992 talk where Nelson quotes and endorses David Whitmer’s rock-in-a-hat Book of Mormon translation? . . . I confirmed Nelson’s rock-in-the-hat endorsement from his 1992 talk buried on

"Even reading the scriptures and seeing all its problems can cause members to question and doubt. If it wasn’t for the internet, I'd still find the information from physical books. Like the Internet, books contain positive and negative, as well as true and false information about the Church and everything else on earth. Are physical books to be avoided as well?" . . .
The rock-in-the hat translation is one of many deceptions and dishonesty over [Mormon Church] history. . . .

"Boyd K. Packer gave an eye-opening talk to Church Education System Instructors and faculty at a CES Symposium on the Doctrine & Covenants and Church History on August 22, 1981 entitled 'The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect.' Packer said the following:

“'There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not. Some things that are true are not very useful.'

"Joseph using a rock in a hat instead of the gold plates to translate the Book of Mormon is not a useful truth? . . .

"When I first discovered that Joseph Smith used a rock in a hat to translate the Book of Mormon, . . .…I went into a panic. I desperately needed answers, and I needed them three hours ago.

"Among the first sources I looked to for answers were official Church sources such as and I couldn’t find them.

"I then went to FAIR and [the] Neal Maxwell Institute (formerly FARMS). FAIR and these unofficial apologists have done more to destroy my testimony than any anti-Mormon source ever could. I found their version of Mormonism to be alien and foreign to the Chapel Mormonism that I grew up in attending Church, seminary, reading scriptures, General Conferences, EFY, mission and BYU. Their answers are not only contradictory to the scriptures and teachings I learned through correlated Mormonism . . ., they’re truly bizarre. . . .

"Why is it that I had to first discover all of this--from the Internet--at 31-years-old, after 20 years of high activity in the Church? I wasn’t just a seat-warmer at Church. I’ve read the scriptures several times. I’ve read hundreds of 'approved' Church books. I was an extremely dedicated missionary who voluntarily asked to stay longer in the mission field. I was very interested in, and dedicated to, the gospel. . . .

"How am I supposed to feel about learning about these disturbing facts at 31-years-old? After making critical life decisions based on trust and faith that the Church was telling me the complete truth about its origins and history? After many books, seminary, EFY, Church history tour, mission, BYU, General Conferences, scriptures, Ensigns and regular Church attendance?

"So, putting aside the absolute shock and feeling of betrayal in learning about all this information that has been kept concealed and hidden from me by the Church my entire life, I’m now expected to go back to the drawing board. Somehow, I’m supposed to rebuild my testimony on newly discovered information that is not only bizarre and alien to the Chapel Mormonism I had a testimony of, it’s almost comical.

"I’m now supposed to believe that Joseph has the credibility of translating ancient records . . . I’m supposed to believe with a straight face that Joseph using a rock in a hat is totally legit? Despite this being the exact same method he used to con people out of their money during his treasure hunting days? Despite this ruining the official story of ancient prophets and Moroni investing all that time and effort into gold plates--which were not used because Joseph’s face was stuffed in a hat?"

--Mormon Church President Joseph Fielding Smith Said He Didn't Believe Joseph Smith Used a Rock in a Hat to Translate the Book of Mormon (He Said the Rock was Maybe Used for Something Else)

Before becoming the 10th president of Mormon Inc., Joseph Fielding Smith had been its official historian for 50 years. He denied flat-out that Smith used a rock in a hat to figure out the Book of Mormon.

From his book, "Doctrines of Salvation," vol. 3, pp. 225-26:

"While the statement has been made by some writers that the Prophet Joseph Smith used a seer stone part of the time in his translating of the record, and information points to the fact that he did have in his possession such a stone, yet there is no authentic statement in the history of the Church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. The information is all hearsay and, personally, I do not believe that this stone was used for this purpose.

"The reason I give for this conclusion is found in the statement of the Lord to the Brother of Jared, as recorded in Ether 3:22-24. These stones--the Urim and Thummim, which were given to the Brother of Jared--were preserved for this very purpose of translating the record, both of the Jaredites and the Nephites. Then again, the Prophet was impressed by Moroni with the fact that these stones were given for that very purpose.

"It hardly seems reasonable to suppose that the Prophet would substitute something evidently inferior under these circumstances. It may have been so but it is so easy for a story of this kind to be circulated due to the fact that the Prophet did possess a seer stone, which he may have used for some other purposes."

Joseph Fieldin Smith had something to hide--namely, that magic peepstone. He knew of its existence but emphatically denied that Founding Joe had found it, then used it to "translate" the Book of Mormon:

"[The] seer stone was not used in [the] Book of Mormon translation. We have been taught since the days of the Prophet that the Urim and Thummim were returned with the plates to the angel. We have no record of the Prophet having the Urim and Thummim after the organization of the Church. Statements of translations by the Urim and Thummim after that date are evidently errors."

--Apostle Neal A. Maxwell Attempted to Downplay Claims that Joseph Smith Used a Peepstone to "Translate" the Book of Mormon

From his General Conference sermon, "By the Gift and Power of God," published in the "Ensign," January 1997, p. 39, where Maxwell pled convenient ignorance:

". . . [H]e [Joseph Smith] was not necessarily and constantly scrutinizing the characters on the plates--the usual translation process of going back and forth between pondering an ancient text and providing a modern rendering. . . . While the use of divine instrumentalities might also account for the rapid rate of translation, the Prophet sometimes may have used a less mechanical procedure. We simply do not know the details."

A year later, in his book, "Not My Will, But Thine," p. 26, Maxwell warned faithful Mormons not to bother with the rocky little details of what he called the "light-shielding" hat used by Joseph Smith to produce an English version of the Book of Mormon:

"We are looking beyond the mark today, for example, if we are more interested in the physical dimensions of the cross than in what Jesus achieved thereon; or when we neglect Alma’s words on faith because we are too fascinated by the light-shielding hat reportedly used by Joseph Smith during some of the translating of the Book of Mormon. To neglect substance while focusing on process is another form of unsubmissively looking beyond the mark."

--The Mormon Cult Has Had Well-Rehearsed and Routine Run Shielding the Truth about the Rock in the Hat

Before eventually succumbing to the Internet's information tsunami that is eroding and exposing the Mormon Cult's trove of dirty little historical secrets, its handlers were deliberately, regularly and deceptively santitizing what they fed to their members about how Joseph Smith allegedly "deciphered" the Book of Mormon.

William Kempton explains how it was done in his 12 June 2009 article, "Urim & Thummim or Magic Stone? How Smith Claimed to Translate":

". . . [A]fter skimming [earlier LDS magazines articles mentioning [the seer stone], it seems that they [the Mormon Church] [was] vague and [didn't] discuss all the details. . . .

"Official LDS Church images also misle[d] investigators and Mormons alike by depicting Smith actually translating from the plates--which is blatantly false. I am not aware of any official LDS source that depict[ed] Smith using his seer stone and his hat. The average LDS member . . . who relie[d] on official LDS sources [was ] left with the impression that Smith used the plates to translate today’s Book of Mormon; and if they [had] heard about the seer stone Smith used for most of the production of the Book of Mormon, they usually mistakenly [thought] it [was] referring to the Urim and Thummim . . . .

"[Y]ou have to dig deep in past issues [containing official LDS articles] to learn about Smith’s rock-in-the-hat act. Official LDS articles [on the subject]. . . [were] inconsistent and contradictory. For example, the September 1977 'Ensign' doubt[ed] Whitmer's claim that Smith used the rock-in-the-hat act and claim[ed] a real translation took place with Smith's direct use of the plates.

"[In] [t]he 1977 article, 'A One-sided View of Mormon Origins,' by Mark Ashurst-McGee, [he admits that] [i]n the process of trying to answer Grant Palmer’s research, . . . the image of Smith actually translating gold plates in front of him that [had been] used by the Church in its official publications, [was] inaccurate. He admit[ted] that Smith did use the rock-in-the- hat method and the plates, in fact. were nowhere in sight during the production of the Book of Mormon.

"On a Mormon message board in 2009, Jeff Ricks of, made the following observation:

"'There are lots of examples where Mormonism misrepresents the facts to the public. The first one that comes to mind is the way the Church [has] misrepresent[ed] Smiths's method of producing the Book of Mormon. On the Church's website there are at least four or five different paintings showing Smith poring over the gold plates line by line, while he or someone else writes down what he dictates, as if he's acting as a translator. But the Church admits, when pressed, that Smith's actual method of producing the Book of Mormon was looking at a rock in a hat. Hmmmm. . . . So, the Church has on its site at least four paintings that misrepresent Smith as a translator, while they don't have a single painting that I can find that shows him doing it by looking at a rock in a hat . . .

"'This is not a minor oversight. Church leaders have said that the Book of Mormon is the foundation of the Church--and the Church will admit that the book was produced by looking at a rock in a hat. Therefore, if the Church were more honest about its origins, that rock would be a centerpiece of the Church's story to the public. Instead, it continues to knowingly misrepresent Smith as a translator.

"'Let's summarize: The Church [has] knowingly misrepresent[ed] its 'product' to the public . . . and it takes in massive sums of money that's aided, in part, by that misrepresentation (I'm sure the Church's conversion rate, and therefore income stream, would reduce if the dorky rock-in-hat method were more honestly represented). It [has been] an ongoing willful misrepresentation that, by normal standards, is unethical and immoral; and is a matter that, in the real world, possibly merits prison time. Yet, the Church gets a bye. "Truth Restored"? I think not. It's more like "Truth Distorted." . . .

"'"[Another person on the message board added the following]:

"'"Another point of contention is they have the actual rock that Joseph Smith used to translate the Book of Mormon. If they wanted to, they could put it on display for members to view the mystical magical object. . . . They don’t display the magic rock . . . because it would bring to the surface the methods used to translate Mormon doctrine and provide people that may not know about the arrest of Joseph Smith for glass-looking using the same "money-digger" method.'"


--An Imploding Mormon Cult Has Been Rocked by the Exploding Information Age

LDS Inc. has historically lied about Joseph Smith's "magic rock" practices--and only has been more forthcoming about the matter after it's been caught trying to cover it up.

Jack Kettier, in his 2012 article, "How Did Joseph Smith Translate the Book of Mormon?," provides an example of proof:

"Joseph Smith's involvement in magic practices had always been denied by the LDS Church until 1971, when Presbyterian pastor, Wesley P. Walters, discovered two original documents which proved that Joseph Smith was a 'glass looker' and was arrested and examined before a justice of the peace in Bainbridge, New York, in 1826. One of the documents is Justice Albert Neeley's bill to the county showing the costs involved in several hearings held in 1826. The fifth item from the top of Neeley's bill mentions the examination of 'Joseph Smith The Glass Looker.'


--Threatening Questions Challenge the Mormon Cult's Bygone Days and Ways of Performing Brainwashing on Believers

In its article, "Book of Mormon Translation: Response to," asks:

" . . . [I]f it was acceptable for the founding prophet of Mormonism to receive revelations through scrying, why doesn't the current prophet use Joseph Smith's very stone (currently in the Church's vaults) to receive revelation today?

"If this stone indeed has special powers, it could be examined and shown to the world as a truly sacred object and used by modern-day prophets instead of hidden away, never to be shown or talked about to members. However, . . . even the most faithful member would know that this stone is just a stone and, if it was examined by geologists, we have little doubt that it would be proven to be a regular stone that is commonly found in the New York area in which Joseph lived."

Let's hope Mormons aren't so "sacredly stoned" out of their minds by silly tales of a "magic" peepstone that they can't ask some important questions of a Cult that is busy taking away their time, their money, their thinking and their life.

Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2015 09:57AM by steve benson.

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 05:59AM

" . . . [I]f it was acceptable for the founding prophet of Mormonism to receive revelations through scrying, why doesn't the current prophet use Joseph Smith's very stone (currently in the Church's vaults) to receive revelation today? "

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Posted by: brandywine ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 12:44PM

Mostly because it's a farce and they know it.

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Posted by: Myron Donnerbalken ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 07:49AM

I think it's more of a bummer for the people who have faced discipline over teaching that Smith used a peepstone to translate the Book of Mormon. Will the church reverse their excommunications or other forms of discipline, apologize for the stress and inconvenience?

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Posted by: axeldc ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 07:53AM

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 03:53PM

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Posted by: Danielle (nli) ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 08:45AM

During the 70's, I was taught that JSjr used the urim and thummin to translate the BofM.

Thankfully, the suits have finally gotten this straightened out. Surely, I would not want to be kept in the darkness of a hat any longer than necessary.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 09:50AM

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Posted by: Danielle (nli) ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 10:11AM

Before the COB dispenses with their on-line definition of urim and thummin, here it is for posterity:

"An ancient instrument or tool prepared by God and used by Joseph Smith to aid in the translation of the Book of Mormon."

Again, I'm happy that the suits cleared this up for us. However, it is highly unlikely that a turd rock is equivalent to "an ancient instrument or tool prepared by God."

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Posted by: justthefacts ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 09:54AM

This is the church forced into doing more damage control.
All the little secrets are coming out.
The church knows that members need a response from the brethren so members can maintain faith.
This way the members can fall back on the old reliable rational: if the brethren are okay with it, then so am I.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 10:23AM

Nothing else is working. They tell the truth as a last ditch act of desperation.

I predict that won't work either.

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Posted by: imaworkinonit ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 10:44AM

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Posted by: Doxi ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 10:51AM

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Posted by: fakemoroni ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 11:53AM

"Everybody must get stoned"?

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Posted by: csuprovograd ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 10:55AM

Long-time dropout trying to keep up here...

How it all happened-latest version:

1) Used a rock in a hat to write/translate BOM.
2) Urim & Thummin - out. Not part of the translation process.
3) Gold plates - not needed since JS had his face buried in a hat. Couldn't even see the plates, amiright?

A lot of unnecessary stuff was talked about in the past, I guess.

This smacks of desperation trying to avoid a huge collapse in the very near future. This is a Hail Mary to retain and recruit anyone who is completely irrational.

New name: The Church of Magical Rocks and Suspended Thinking.

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 11:20AM

It just occurs to me that if the mormon church was part of the

Disneyland theme park, they could call it "make believe land".

They could display the seer stones, the golden plates, the

urim and thumim and who knows what else. Which also makes me

think of another name instead of "make believe land", which

could be "load of crap" land.

They are now a huge bizzare embarassment on a par with

L.Ron Hubbard of Scientology,

and his incredibly made up space shit.. Nanu, Nanu

suckas . The mormon church is just as laughable and

weird as they are.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2015 11:20AM by saucie.

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 12:12PM

"They'll stone when you're tryin to make a buck..." said a certain rough stone rolling.

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 03:01PM


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Posted by: Templar ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 12:25PM

From time to time individuals incorrectly state that the "Urim and Thummin" was somehow instrumental in bring forth the Book of Mormon. The fact of the matter is that the term wasn't even known in the church until several years after publication of Joseph's fantasy.

Even the D&C reference was "backdated" i.e. added to a much earlier received revelation. All the contemporary descriptions stated that he used a "seer stone"! End of case.

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Posted by: wastedtime ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 12:31PM

Where can I get a small replica of the chocolate stone, attached to a chain, that I could wear around my neck?

Nice conversation starter, and it would give women something to play with.

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Posted by: Templar ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 12:35PM

wastedtime Wrote:
> it would give women
> something to play with.

Other than?

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Posted by: wastedtime ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 12:48PM

Hopefully she gets to that. I'm referencing that show that used to be on VH1, "The Pickup Artist". Always good to have some bling. What better than a poopstone?

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Posted by: brandywine ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 03:15PM

Pretty peep stone necklaces. :)

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 03:35PM

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Posted by: brandywine ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 12:47PM

In light of this development, I think this religion will die out with the WWII generation. I have a hard time believing it's got many years left.

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Posted by: wastedtime ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 12:51PM

I agree. The fervor of commitment is just not as strong in the younger generations. Many younger people are looking for an excuse to "Get Out".

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Posted by: brandywine ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 12:54PM

That's because it's boring as hell and demands everything.

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Posted by: Templar ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 12:49PM

steve benson Wrote:
Joseph Fielding Smith had something to hide--namely, that magic peepstone. He knew of its existence but emphatically denied that Founding Joe had found it, then used it to "translate" the Book of Mormon:

"[The] seer stone was not used in [the] Book of Mormon translation. We have been taught since the days of the Prophet that the Urim and Thummim were returned with the plates to the angel. We have no record of the Prophet having the Urim and Thummim after the organization of the Church. Statements of translations by the Urim and Thummim after that date are evidently errors."

As you pointed out, Joseph Fielding Smith and his puppet SIL Bruce R. McConkie were two of the biggest liars TSCC has ever produced. I would not accept anything these two clowns have written.

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Posted by: gentlestrength ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 01:13PM

You mention Moroni returning as a resurrected angel.

I have always been curious about this part of the stories. It has been my understanding that Mormon and Christian doctrine has been that there was a resurrection of the dead when Christ was resurrected and that since his death those that died remained in spirit for the Second Coming where they would reunite with a glorified body.

Thus they would be angels, spirits. I don't know what these look like, but apparently corporeal somehow. If I misunderstand the doctrine then obviously my confusion is misplaced.

John the Baptist died before Christ. He would have a resurrected body to give the Aaronic Priesthood so that Joseph and Oliver could baptize each other. Moroni died after Christ, as did Peter, James, and John. How could they lay on hands to restore priesthood if they had no hands, do spirits have hands?

I enjoyed the original post content. Bizarre stuff. Not sure how it will play out, just know I am sad that I have family and friends who will go down any story the SLC living prophet will give them. They just will not be present with the reality of the conflicts and absurdities of Mormonism.

Such a waste, but they're "happy", and that's good.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2015 02:07PM by gentlestrength.

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Posted by: brandywine ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 01:15PM

+1 except for the being happy part. My family are miserable in the church.

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Posted by: AnonymousAndLovingIt ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 02:43PM

Steve, I heard they were going to put it on display in Harmony, Pennsylvania, where there's some sort of Mormony museum dedicated to Joseph's "translating" being built.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 03:30PM

. . . will buy anything they're told by their designated leadership that they (the LDS leaders) know their faithful Mormon rank and file will unquestionably accept a museum exhibit placard that tells them Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon--in the abscenc of the actual plates, no less--by staring at a rock in a hat. (It all depends on the wording--and the Mormon Church is quite exprienced in messing with words as it twists its history for mass consumption).

I wouldn't put it past the sheep to believe whatever they ay end up seeing in the display case--but I'll believe it (so to speak) when I see it.

Now, about the potential museum resting place for that rock:

"The [original] printer's manuscript [of the Book of Mormon] will be available online for free sometime next year. Joseph Smith's seer stone will be put on public display in an LDS Church visitors center in Harmony, Pennsylvania."

("LDS Church Releases Photos of Joseph Smith's Seer Stone,"
by Chris Miller, KUTV, Salt Lake City, Utah, 4 August 2015,

Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2015 03:41PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: leftfield ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 03:57PM

I think the last time old Joe peeped into the hat it prophesied that he was from the House of Slytherin.

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Posted by: brandywine ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 04:32PM

Hahaha! This ^^^^

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Posted by: Eternal Mocker ( )
Date: August 05, 2015 04:19PM

It is well known that half a truth is often more deceptive than an outright lie. The Mormon Church has learned this well. Their latest attempt at "honesty" is a classic example of what the Watergate conspirators called a "limited, modified hangout" or some such thing, signifying that they had to appear to being forthcoming while at the same time hiding the real truth. The Mos tell only a small part of the truth, don't put it into context and conceal the real story of Joseph's occult peep stone and his conning the local yokels. Very telling that they don't show the one picture of what Joseph claimed he was really doing--reading English from the peep stone in his hat. Now wouldn't that be a spiritual feast. The purported effort to be more forthright concerning Mormon history is in fact a concerted effort to continue deluding the faithful while feigning to be more honest. Eternal truths my arse.

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