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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: January 08, 2014 12:47PM

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Posted by: Itzpapalotl ( )
Date: January 08, 2014 03:24PM

First, lemme say that some of the MK products are fantastic, others are average, and some just plain terrible. For a long time, MK stopped testing on animals, but apparently they still do with their products made in China. Very sneaky.

You can't make money selling the products alone. Usually, you end up selling them off as a lot on Ebay, because if you return the products, you're forbidden from ever selling MK again. I know this for a fact, as I was a MK saleswoman 12 years ago, lost money on it, and learned my lesson about MLMs.

When my SIL and niece decided they wanted to get into MK, I gave them some warnings, which are usually dismissed. I really hoped that she wouldn't lose money on it, but she's now trying to sell the rest of he inventory to break even. Over Xmas, she told me what happened. See if any of this seems familiar:

1. Weekly meetings, crazy goals, heavily made-up women who are unnaturally cheerful. You'll be love-bombed and encouraged to sell, even if you only want to buy a few products. After you buy one or two products, you'll be hassled to buy more.

2."God first, then family, then career" is the motto. So the next time you're pressured to sell MK, just tell the SW you're an atheist.
My SIL already has a full-time career and only wanted to do MK part-time. Her "coach" kept encouraging her to do/sell more than either amount SIL possessed. She was pressured to further herself into MK culture even though she initially explained she didn't want to move up the sales levels.

3. Not a good choice for introverts- You're encouraged as a SL to approach strangers and pressure friends/family to have parties to sell product. My former MK lady, for example, kept asking me to host a party; I explained I don't really know people in this area, she told me to invite my neighbors, whom I don't know. Now for a person with anxiety, this does not work- I don't like approaching strangers or pressuring my friends/family. I think it's bad business and rude. My SIL feels the same way.

4.In order to make any money with MK, you have to build a sales team and make the money off their sales. You have to make a certain amount of sales every month to receive the famous MK car. If you don't keep up with the sales, the vehicle will be repo-ed. The only reason some of these women have made a crap-load of money is because they were able to convince others to sell below them. If all their sales women leave, they lose that income.

I don't recommend selling MK any more than I encourage any of the at home schemes. If it sounds to good to be true, well, you know.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2014 03:29PM by Itzpapalotl.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: January 08, 2014 10:07PM

I was in Mary Kay for a month. I met a woman after I graduated who was recruiting recent grads to be in her circle of girls so she could get her red jacket.

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: January 08, 2014 10:52PM

To return to the original topic: Yes, being a Mormon is a lot like MK. You can never be good enough; they own you; and everything you say and do is for the church, but never the other way around. Never say or do anything negative about the church or they will hang you out to dry. And so on.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: January 08, 2014 11:22PM

This is eerily familiar...

Written by SuzyQ

If you’ve just joined Mary Kay, please start here. This will give you a bit of information on what to expect in Mary Kay, and how Pink Truth may fit into that.

Dear New Mary Kay Beauty Consultant

Welcome to the world of Mary Kay Cosmetics. I have been a consultant with Mary Kay for 9 years and a director for over 8 years. I was one of those consultants who moved up fast. There are some things I want to share with you that your director or recruit may not.

My guess is that your spouse, parent or significant other isn’t sharing your excitement about making your dreams come true with Mary Kay. Your director will tell you that this person doesn’t really understand how Mary Kay works and that this person (or people) doesn’t want you to get hurt. That this negative response is totally understandable, and you can have a little fun showing them that you can make money with this business.

The truth is that you can’t. By this time you are probably dreaming of being a Star consultant, having a full store and racing up the career path. (And that probably includes visions of driving a free car!!) You were told many things during your interview (marketing plan, Fun Fast Facts). For example:

1. We are looking for women who aren’t the “sales type”. You will be expected to sell cosmetics, and you will be expected to recruit. If those two activities don’t require selling, nothing requires selling. Selling is the heart of this business, no matter how anyone glosses over it.

2. We are looking for busy women. Busy women are good at delegating. This means that you will have to add at least one Mary Kay activity into your life each week. This can be in the form of a success meeting, a class, a facial or phone calls to book guests for meetings, customer orders, and appointments with you. In reality, you should plan on at least 5 hours per week. You are told you will have flexibility with your hours, that you are your own boss, that you are in business for yourself but not by yourself. There is flexibility, but if you don’t put the hours in, you will not make any money. Something has to give. There is no balance.

3. You have more month than money. This is when you are told that the products fly off the shelves and practically sell themselves. You are told that you will make 50% profit on every product you sell. You were reminded that you loved the product and bought some. So will all of your friends, family and customers. This is patently not true. You do not make a 50% profit, because some of your “profit” will be used to buy supplies, samples, mailing accessories. You will be encouraged to enroll in the Preferred Customer Program, buy business accessories including a website, to discount products or to give products away or heavily discount the products as a booking tool. You were probably told the worst thing that could happen is that you would get your products at 50% off for the rest of your life. Your 50% discount lasts only 3 months – the month you order and the next two months. You will be required to order at least $200 wholesale at the end of that 3 month period to earn you discount again. It will take a long time for you to show a profit if you ever do.

4. You don’t know anybody. You were told that this wouldn’t be a problem, and to reassure you that once your natural market is gone (your circle of friends and coworkers) you will develop real customers (women who will pay full price for their products). If you asked where these customers are, you were told this topic will be covered in your “free” training. The bottom line is that once you run out of family and friends, you will be turned loose on strangers and told to “give them a sincere compliment” in order to start a conversation, and hopefully talk them into holding a Mary Kay class. When you’re out of friends, you will haveto scrape and scrounge to find new people to (hopefully) buy products from you.

5. You will get free training. You will more than likely be asked to pay a weekly meeting fee to your director ranging from $2-$5 per week. You will also be encouraged to attend company and area events as part of your free training. Career Conference is in March and costs $75. This cost does not include travel, hotel, or meals. You will be told the free product we receive from the company will more than cover these costs. It will not come close. Seminar is in Dallas in July and August. You will be told the only reason to miss Seminar is that you are dead or dialating (about to give birth) You will be told that this is where you get the big picture of the huge dreams you can build and make come true with your Mary Kay business. The cost is $175. There will be additional costs that vary wildly for your area banquet, hotel, some meals, transportation, evening dresses and accessories, and other expenses. There is no “free” training. You will be told these are business expenses and can be deducted for tax purposes. Some are, some aren’t, you will not be told the difference.

6. We are looking for decision makers. This is said to empower you. We would prefer that your agreement be signed as soon as possible so that no one will talk you out of signing your agreement. If the deal is that good, it will still be good a week or month from now. There will be, or there was, extra pressure to have your agreement submitted to the company if you had your interview towards the end of the month, or before the 15th in March, June, September or December. This in when the quarter ends, and your recruiter will earn extra money and prizes and move up the career path if you sign before the quarter ends. Your director will earn a bonus if you come in before the end of the month.

7. We are looking for women who value their families. You will be told your children are your reason, not your excuse. You will learn that children are not welcome at 99% of Mary Kay events, and that if your child becomes sick, you will still be expected to attend events and meetings. Mary Kay comes before all family events, children’s birthdays included. You may, indeed, be physically present in your home, but more than likely you will be on the phone or packing for a class or a facial or a delivery. You will need to pay for a sitter, and they do not like to be paid with Mary Kay products. They want money to buy their own (non-Mary Kay) makeup.

Some random thoughts:

Mary Kay does not know what you sell, only what you order. You – the consultant – are the end consumer in eyes of the comapnyh. Mary Kay is not and has not been #1 in skin care and color cosmetics for the last 13 out of 14 years. This statistic has been skewed in the surveys. Mary Kay sells ONLY to consultants, and THIS IS HOW THEY MAKE THEIR MONEY. THEY SELLTHE PRODUCT TO CONSULTANTS.
The “Star Consultant” program is a way to help directors talk new recruits and other unit members into ordering more product. The prizes at the $1,800 level are really worth about $15 to $20, at the $2,400 level the prizes are worth about $25 to $30, and so on. Every additional $600 wholesale level adds about $5 to $10 in value to the prizes. The “value” that Mary Kay shows consultants is the retail value. The company actually purchases them for far less.
The focus of success meetings is recruiting. Your director may even offer a prize when you bring a recruitable guest. You will see women receive recognition for “sales” and for “recruiting.” Your director might offer to help you earn your “Pearls of Sharing.” You may be asked to give her the names of 6 women you know who would be willing to do a “practice interview” for your training. Keep in mind your director’s goal is to recruit these women (for you) and you will lose these people as customers if they decide to join Mary Kay, too. Your friends become your competitors.
Your director’s income is inflated. She tells you the largest commission check she’s ever gotten, and she does not deduct her expenses. The time she says she spends working in her business is inaccurate, she works more and earns less than she admits. She does not earn an executive income. If she has a “free” car, she may be making payments if her unit is small.
Your director may offer a prize for placing a minimum order by the 15th of each month. This is to ensure that her production is at least at $1000 by then so she can get a commission check from your orders on the first of the month.

I wish I could tell you that Mary Kay will work for you. It is unlikely you will make any money. It is very likely you will be manipulated into ordering more than you sold at any given time. Mary Kay is NOT a dual marketing plan, it is a multi-level marketing company that makes money for those at the top of the pyramid on the backs of women just like you. You will not go up if you show up. You will eat into your limited profit margin. You cannot control the amount of money you make, or move up, give yourself a raise or promote yourself whenever you want. Your business is built on people and people cannot be counted on to come through for you.

Those negative people in your life are the ones who speak about reality. Your director and recruiter are lying to themselves and to you about this “opportunity.” They are not your friends and they do not have your best interests at heart. They are trying to earn some money from your belief in this dream. You need to protect yourself. Spend some time reading on It is known as a negative site to those in Mary Kay. It is known as a lifeline for those of us who walked the path you are now on. Get out now, and get to know us on Pink Truth.


Another Mary Kay Sales Director

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Posted by: siobhan ( )
Date: January 01, 2015 07:50PM

The difference in pink truth and RFM in the bitterness department is that not a single woman I've seen on pink truth will admit that she CHOSE to participate in business practices that she knew to be shady. The people on rfm were often born into mormonism and had no choice. I live in an area where just a few directors have used their (or more usually their husbands) position in the community to coerce or even brow beat women to purchase or sign up in Mary Kay to the point of befouling the company's reputation. And yes, I DO blame Mary Kay for not reeling in these she - wolves. However, Mary Kay has worked great for me. Buy what I need when I can afford it. Get what I choose to use at a discount and sell some at some future point and cannibalize my profits when the family needed groceries. And yes, when I've gotten off my fanny and worked it I've made great quick cash. I just didn't fall for what some director told me.

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Posted by: Another Mk Sales Director ( )
Date: May 24, 2016 09:37PM

Funny how you are giving all this advice, but you still are a Mary Kay Sales Director. Hmmmm

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Posted by: Itzpapalotl ( )
Date: May 24, 2016 09:41PM

Someone lacks reading comprehension. Read the post again.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: May 24, 2016 10:58PM

Nice to know my observations and commentary are having some effect :)

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Posted by: Gone girl ( )
Date: May 24, 2016 11:27PM

This^^^^^ is exactly accurate.

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Posted by: LoveMK ( )
Date: January 12, 2014 08:51PM

I have been a MK consultant for over a year now. Initially I wanted to climb the ladder of success but most recently decided I just wanted to sell the products. First of all, no one makes you do anything. It is something one should think over and seek education about the company, product, etc. but most importantly you must actually like the product to sell it. I have a great unit and have never had things done that are posted on this site. When I told my director I simply did not want to pursue directorship she said I am still invited to come to the meetings when I want especially when a new product is revealed or to simply help out with makeover classes. We all have an exceptional friendship and she never tried to talk me out of my decision but simply understood. I do know that my involvement with Mary Kay has boosted my self-confidence and self esteem---yes that is one of the things they say and I know how different I am now. Being a Mary Kay consultant enables me to go into nursing homes and give facials, to pamper many individuals who do not feel good about themselves and there are many women out there just like that. Like anything, it's all what you make of it. If it's not for you, get out. I for one am a positive person and refuse to listen to negativity but rather learn from my own experiences.

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Posted by: madalice ( )
Date: December 31, 2014 11:42PM

LoveMK is obviously someone who only shows up to defend MK sales jobs. MK isn't all it's made out out to be. Hmmm, just like something else I recognize.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: January 01, 2015 07:23AM

It's like the TBM-type plants who come here and call some of us mean and bitter for not supporting and playing along with the morg.

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Posted by: Tupperwhere ( )
Date: January 12, 2014 08:58PM

do they still give away pink cadillacs to the top earners? There was a lady in my ward where I grew up that earned one.

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Posted by: Name ( )
Date: December 31, 2014 05:24PM

All I want to ask to all these ladies who are so hardcore on defending Mary Kay how far in debt are you and your family in and don't lie about it ????? My wife did that Mary Kay deal we drained our bank account to buy products we borrowed money from family just so she can keep her red jacket position so she didn't have to start all over same thing for her car from Mary Kay too so we borrowed bout $4000 from family got behind on bills almost lost our other two vehicles due to not enough income cause most of it went to Mary Kay so my point is I tired of all these ladies talking about all this money the make but don't mention all the scarifies their families had to make just for her to get their and not be able to be a director at least so I'd like for them to speak the truth about it and not hide all the bs they have to go through which is ALOT have a nice day

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Posted by: Titanic Survivor ( )
Date: December 31, 2014 05:58PM

Just saying.

Punctuation would make your post easier to read.

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Posted by: Adult of god nli ( )
Date: January 01, 2015 01:23PM

True, but the post seems very authentic.

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Posted by: Titanic Survivor ( )
Date: January 01, 2015 08:01PM

No argument there.

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Posted by: nolongersearching27 ( )
Date: December 31, 2014 05:51PM

My mom sold MK back in the late 80's early 90's. SO MUCH money went into that and it put our family in debt. She didn't last long. There was a LOT of pressure on her.

I tried selling it. I was told, by my recruiter and local director, to get a few credit cards and buy a full invnetory, I didn't, my husband said "NEVER". When I didn't show up for meetings I was guilted and basically stalked. When I said I wasn't interested in becoming a director or anything else and I just wanted to get discounted make up I was treated like trash. Eventually I just quit selling it and let my family members, who wouldn't buy from me, take all my stuff that I know they wanted. Then I threw the rest out.

I did not like pressuring people into holding shows or buying products. The ways we were taught at the meetings was really stalkerish and predatory.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 31, 2014 06:11PM

Every school I've ever worked in has had an Avon rep. They don't appear to buy any product for resale that I've seen. They just put out the brochures in the teachers' lounge. If you want to buy from them fine, and if not, that's fine as well. I'm not sure that they make much money from it, but it must work for them somehow.

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Posted by: 2+2=4 ( )
Date: January 01, 2015 04:49PM

Avon was founded in the late 1800's, it predates "Multi-Level Marketing" and Avon used to be a legitimate Single Level Direct Sales business. Unfortunately, the MLM Death Star empire has pretty much taken over the direct selling universe and Avon decided to go the MLM route in more recent history.

Currently, Avon doesn't seem to know what it wants to/is going to be. It noisily resigned from the Direct Selling Organization (which is run by MLMers) last year, but it still has some of the features of the fake BizOp pyramid recruiting machines that are MLM schemes.

Here is a sample of what Robert Fitzpatrick has written about Avon on his site Pyramid Scheme Alert:

"To Be or Not To Be MLM? – Avon’s Question
To be clear, Avon is still not an Amway. There are significant differences in Avon’s current model that root it in direct selling and differentiate it from typical MLM pyramid marketing. Unlike virtually all other MLM companies, Avon has company-employed managers who oversee recruitment and training of newly enrolled “independent” salespeople. Unlike nearly all other MLMs, a newly recruited Avon saleperson cannot immediately recruit other salespeople without achieving the level of “leader.” The gross profit available to a beginner Avon sales rep is substantially higher than most other MLMs offer. Avon advertises its brand, giving a boost to an Avon rep’s own marketing efforts. And Avon limits recruiting to three levels, though the chain is unbroken.
Yet, the MLM model is one that it is very difficult, perhaps impossible, to adopt only in part. Avon – fundamentally – is, or was, about selling health, beauty and jewelry products. MLM – fundamentally – is about selling a “business opportunity”. Indeed, since the MLM model is based upon constantly inducing new capital invstments from the saleseople, it is not just a business model. It is a definable industry sector. Many MLM contracts include non-compete clauses restricting the salespeoeople’s rights to work with any other MLM company, no matter what the product (soap, cosmetics, weight loss meals, insurance, vitamins, etc.) The true product of MLM companies and what they really “sell” is, in fact, one and the same for all of them – the promise of “unlimited” income, based upon continuous recruiting. As some companies have stated plainly, the MLM model is the MLM product.
Avon management has led the company deeply into this sector. Unless Avon’s management fully and coldly understands the marketing requirements, values, culture, regulatory risks, and financial demands of this sector, Avon may have truly lost its way."

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 01, 2015 05:10PM

Interesting. Thanks for the information.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: December 31, 2014 06:21PM

Dear New Mormon,

Welcome to the world of Mormonism. I have been a convert with the church for 9 years, and a high priest for over 8 years. I was one of those converts who moved up fast. There are some things I want to share with you that your missionaries or bishop may not.

My guess is that your spouse, parent or significant other isn’t sharing your excitement about making your dreams come true with Mormonism. Your missionary will tell you that this person doesn’t really understand how Mormonism works and that this person (or people) doesn’t want you to get hurt. That this negative response is totally understandable, and you can have a little fun showing them that you can make it to the celestial kingdom with this, I mean, gospel.


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Posted by: 2+2=4 ( )
Date: December 31, 2014 07:46PM


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Posted by: icedtea ( )
Date: December 31, 2014 11:34PM

Having done -- and quit -- both organizations, I totally agree that they have a lot in common:
-- Trained recruiters spout pre-written speeches and hand out correlated sales materials that make the organizations look way, way better than they really are.
-- Potential and new recruits are love-bombed and showered with fake friendship.
-- New recruits are taught there is a "right" way to do everything, and that it's the ONLY way to reach one's most important goals and dreams. There is a Plan for Happiness/Success.
-- Lots of meetings to attend and rules to strictly follow.
-- Big financial commitment. Prosperity and blessings are promised to those who pay the $$$ and follow the rules.
-- Questioning, doubt, and independent thought are strongly discouraged and even punished.
-- It's all about appearances, and there is strong pressure to pretend everything is perfect in order to make the organization look good.
-- If a recruit doesn't succeed, the organization teaches it's the recruit's fault.
-- Lies, cover-ups, and spin are common practice.
-- Once you "make it," everybody looks up to you, but it doesn't mean you're actually happy or have really achieved any of your goals. Likely, you'll be poor and miserable, but you don't dare speak the truth because there's too much at stake.
-- Both systems engage in extensive double-speak to camouflage the truth.
-- Both organizations operate on outdated business models and obsolete cultural assumptions. They both exploit women for their own gain.
-- They're both founded on spurious assumptions and ideas.
-- Once you get out, you wonder how you ever could have bought into all the toxic crap.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: January 01, 2015 03:17AM

There's even a Mary Kay Red Jacket Barbie --

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2015 03:21AM by anybody.

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Posted by: verilyverily ( )
Date: January 01, 2015 03:28AM

My TBM cousin is trying to sell DoTerra and Re-Liv to anyone dumb enough to buy it. She was suckered into this by the lovely caring snarky people in the ward of course. Yet another reason not to attend the CULT meetings.

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Posted by: NeverMo in CA ( )
Date: May 25, 2016 12:17AM

verilyverily Wrote:
> My TBM cousin is trying to sell DoTerra and Re-Liv
> to anyone dumb enough to buy it. She was suckered
> into this by the lovely caring snarky people in
> the ward of course. Yet another reason not to
> attend the CULT meetings.

Speaking of DoTerra, I am going to copy "anybody"'s long post and email it to a friend who got suckered into flogging DoTerra a couple of years ago and continues to lose money that way. I would hope the Net would spell the end of MLM schemes, but it probably just makes it easier for them to recruit.

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