| Subject: | Garn's Version of Events in Trouble As Allegations Contradicting His Story Continue to Surface ... |
| Date: | Mar 14, 2010 |
| Author: | steve benson |
| Summary | House Majority leader Kevin Garn admits to being nude in a hot tub with a 15 year old girl when he was 28 and married. Ironically, Mr. Garn was responsible for ethics legislation in Utah. He had also been a Mormon Bishop. Garn should of been on the sex offenders list, not serving as a Mormon Bishop a few years after this crime. Garn was also arrested for a DUI while serving as a Bishop. He used his influence to also keep this quiet. He continued as a Bishop.
Maher said Garn was her LDS Sunday School teacher when she was in the fourth
grade, several years before the hot tub incident. Garn and his wife also paid off
the young women with $150,000 for her silence and this was done in a Mormon
Bishop's office. The Utah Legislature gave Garn a standing ovation after his disclosure. News reference: kevin-garn-confession-uta_n_496323.html
|
| "Garn told reporters last night: "'I can unequivocally tell you there was no physical contact, there was no touching, there was no intercourse, there was none of those things. It simply did not occur. . . . I'm not trying to downplay what did occur but I want to make it very plain.' "Maher [the young woman] says he's lying, but is hesitant to give her version of events. "'Let's just say this. He really loves to massage,' Maher told "City Weekly" when asked for details of the contact in the hot tub. Maher, though, talks less about how that particular encounter traumatized her and more about the emotional relationship she had with Garn. 'I was in love with him,' she said." (Jesse Fruhwirth, "Woman: Garn lying about 'no contact' in hot tub when she was 15," in "City Weekly" news blog, Salt Lake City, Utah, 12 March 2010, at: http://www.cityweekly.net/utah/blog-3279-woman-garn-lying-about-no-contact-in-hottub-when-s.html) _____ "Cheryl Maher said Friday that Utah House Majority Leader Kevin Garn is lying about having no physical contact with her when they went hot-tubbing in the nude when she was 15 years old. "She also says they had a long-term relationship at that time and contends that he had affairs with others. . . . "'He is not being completely honest,' Maher told the 'Deseret News' by telephone from her home in New Hampshire. "Garn confessed to the Legislature on Thursday that the nude hot-tubbing took place in 1985, when Maher was 15 and Garn was 28 and married. But Garn said there was no touching or intercourse involved. "Maher declined to be specific about what happened, but said Garn 'likes massage.' She said she does not want to talk about specifics because she wants the focus not on Garn's actions but on 'the devastation of my life because of sexual abuse that happens to so many.' She hopes that by talking, 'others will come forward, too.' "Later, she sent an e-mail to the 'Deseret News' saying that she was working for Garn at the Pegasus record store he owned in 1985. She also said he had been her LDS Sunday School teacher when she was in fourth grade. She described what she says was a relationship that lasted many months. "'I remember one night before the Pegasus store was having its grand opening, we were working late to get ready, and Kevin was there and kept watching me,' she said. "She said on other occasions, Garn would 'stare at me and talk to me,' and he then started taking her to lunches and shopping. "'Then there was a day when he took me to Salt Lake, and he stopped and got alcohol, and we ended up at this hot-tub place on State Street. I was scared. I said, "I don't have a suit." He said, "You don't need one,"' Maher wrote. "'I remember when we left feeling very weird, and I wasn't sure if I was having an affair or what was going on. I was confused,' she said, adding that other employees either asked if they were having an affair or joked that they were. "She said in the telephone interview, 'He and I had a relationship for months.' She said, 'I fell head over heels for him' as he told her how pretty she was. She said she knows of other affairs Garn had. She also wrote, 'I did love him. He wrapped me up and infected me.'" (Lee Davidson, "Cheryl Maher says Kevin Garn lied about hot tub contact: Hush money may have violated election laws, " in "Deseret News," Salt Lake City, Utah, 12 March 2010, at: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700016074/Cheryl-Maher-says-Kevin-Garn-lied-about-hot-tub-contact.html) _____ "The woman at the center of the latest scandal to rock the Utah State Capitol is speaking out, and she says House Majority Leader Kevin Garn did not tell all. "Garn shocked lawmakers Thursday night with a startling admission at the close of this years' legislative session. He said he went into a hot tub, naked, with a 15-year-old girl in 1983, and later paid her $150,000 to keep quiet. "'While this payment felt like extortion, I also felt like I should take her word that the money would help her heal. She agreed to keep this 25-year-old incident confidential. Now that this issue has come up again, it's become apparent to me that this payment was a mistake,' Garn said. . . . "'Back in 2002, I was the walking dead,' Maher said. 'I was a mess. I was in a horrible marriage.' "She said there was a lot Garn didn't admit. Of the hot tub incident, Maher told "City Weekly," 'Let's just say this: he really loves to massage.' "Maher said she chose to go public to help others. "'I came forward because, for me, I want to speak the truth about my life. My adventures in life will be helping other women that will be in crisis,' Maher said. "In an e-mail, she said Garn was her Sunday school teacher when she was in fourth grade. Later, when she worked for him, Garn would stare at her, take her to lunch and shopping, and finally to a hot tub -- after stopping first for alcohol. "'So, this wasn't just one incident. This was a series of things that happened over months and months,' Maher said. 'It was a relationship that was going on that was completely inappropriate.' "Republican lawmakers we talked to say they're waiting for Garn to make his own decision whether to stay in office. But one Republican, Kirk Jowers of the Hinckley, was bothered by last night's standing ovation in the house. Sympathy is probably warranted, he said, but cheering is not." (Andrew Adams and John Hollenhorst, "Woman says Garn isn't telling the whole truth," KSL TV Channel 5, Salt Lake City, Utah, 12 March 2010, at: http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=9992708) _____ "After confessing at the close of the legislative session to a 25-year-old incident with a naked 15 year old girl (he was naked, too) in a hot tub and the evasive action taken to stop it from becoming public knowledge, the legislator decided it was time to step down. "In addition to the incident in the hot tub, Mr. Garn later paid Cheryl Maher $150,000 when she threatened to go public with the incident in 2002. Mr. Garn was running for a seat in the United States Congress. She signed a non-disclosure agreement and was paid in 2003. "During the 2010 Session of the legislature, Ms. Maher began sending e-mails to legislators and reporters telling about the incident, and blaming it for a life with pills, alcohol and mental illness. "Ms. Maher currently lives in New Hampshire and says she is at peace after making the incident public." ("Garn resigns: hot tub too hot," in "Salt Lake City Political Buzz Examiner," 13 March 2010, at: http://www.examiner.com/x-37114-Salt-Lake-City-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2010m3d13-Garn-resigns-hot-tub-too-hot) _____ "Maher has not come forward with the details of her story, but she told 'City Weekly' in Salt Lake City that Garn is lying. "'Let's just say this. He really loves to massage,' she said. Maher also said she had been in love with Garn, her one-time Sunday school teacher." (Brian Montopoli, "Kevin Garn-Cheryl Maher Scandal Sets Utah Abuzz," in CBS News "Political Hotsheet," 12 March 2010, at: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20000350-503544.html) |
| Subject: | The HotTub payoff took place in a Bishop's Office! |
| Date: | Mar 14 12:23 |
| Author: | lulu |
|
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14672223 Maher said Garn was her LDS Sunday School teacher when she was in the fourth grade, several years before the hot tub incident. In 2002, when Maher was talking to reporters, Garn and his wife Tanya met with Maher and her husband in her bishop's office in New Hampshire, and subsequently paid her $150,000 for her consent to conceal the incident. Maher was recently excommunicated from the church for an extramarital affair. Web Master Note: It is interesting the Mormon church tries to discredit her by commenting that she was excommunicated for having an affair. |
| Subject: | Too much emphasis on the hot tub, not enough on . .. |
| Date: | Mar 23 15:48 |
| Author: | Twinker |
| what went on before. A teenager doesn't suddenly find herself naked in a hot tub with a naked married man. What troubles me is the grooming, the baiting, the flattery, the come-on, the attention, the shopping, the gifts, the courting ritual, the arousal, the seduction. And afterward, the dumping like a piece of trash. |
| Subject: | Yeah... |
| Date: | Mar 23 15:53 |
| Author: | Anon-In-CA |
| When a teen screws up, they only see the screwed up teen. They don't see the young kid that could have been groomed and abused. |
| Subject: | Re: But, I don't know that this bb blames victims more than society in general does. |
| Date: | Mar 23 16:14 |
| Author: | Anon-In-CA |
| I still remember what happened to my best friend.
Yeah, she screwed up for getting drunk, but it wasn't her fault that she was
raped. Instead the bishop told her it was all her fault, especially because
of the fact that she had been drunk. I've also heard stories of kids who were victims of sexual assault or molestation being barred from proxy baptisms until they have their 'issues worked out' (code words for the Morg trying to say the kids sinned). |
| Subject: | Re: But, I don't know that this bb blames victims more than society in general does. |
| Date: | Mar 24 14:55 |
| Author: | Dogzilla |
| I can't say I've had the same experience. In the case of my abuse, whenever I discuss it (which is actually quite rare), 99% of the non-mormons I ever told about it responded by telling me it wasn't my fault and they were sorry it had happened. 99% of the mormons I ever told pretty much told me I had it coming for being a worthless filthy whore, by virtue of breathing oxygen. |
| Subject: | Being a "Victim" shouldn't be a one size fits all word |
| Date: | Mar 25 12:03 |
| Author: | DNA |
| I've seen that many victims on this board are pretty
protective of all victims, as though they are all part of the same thing.
Being a victim makes you ONE thing about as much as being a secretary makes
you one thing. Are shoplifters and murderers the same thing? They are both law breakers, so they should be the same right? So, I know that I'm going to be run out of town on this, but being a victim starts sounding like being a member of a club, where everyone is accepted as the same, even though they aren't. I suppose it feels supportive to automatically include any new member of the club as being the same as you, even though they are not. But I guess you'd draw the line at including victims of non-sexual things right? So what was Garn's victim a victim of? From what I've read, she was a drug using, alcohol using, teen in trouble with school work, so her parents got her a job working for Garn. At some point she willingly got into a hot tub naked. So what was she a victim of? I would suppose that she was the victim of an adult who was willing to take advantage of an out of control teen's lack of maturity with regards to her conduct. She had a lack of maturity before she worked for him, and when she got into the hot tub. He took advantage of that. It is against the law to do what Garn did as an adult, but perfectly legal to do it if he was a guy from high school. One way she is legally a victim, but doing the exact same thing with a guy in high school she isn't a victim, she is a willing participant. Her conduct is the same in both cases. It is that way because adults have an unfair advantage in how to play the social game of trying to get what they want, and an unfair advantage in predicting the consequences. If she does it with a high school guy, they are pretty much just as dumb as each other, and so it's OK. Doing it with an adult gives the adult the advantage, so it's against the law. Either way, a member of the opposite sex saw your body naked with your permission. Not a huge victim in my book, though he did have an unfair advantage in getting her to agree to willingly do it, and that unfair advantage was against the law. And it was only against the law, due to the unfair advantage. Now another victim may not want to be seen naked, and be forced into it. That victim is more of a victim to me. That one is still a victim whether an adult, or a high school boy is doing it. Add if it includes forceful touching or penetration, then the victim is even further down the victim scale. Add if there are threats of retaliation for telling, even further along the scale. Yet it is talked about like it is all one thing, and they are all part of an exclusive club. Take a willing victim, who wouldn't be a victim at all if the guy was younger, and match her up with a brutally raped, threatened, and impregnated victim and they are as different as night and day. But they will still be welcomed into the victim club as though they are one and the same. She was a victim, but not a victim of much. If a guy at school talked her into the same thing, she's not a victim at all. Victims of rape are so much more Victims, it's not even close to the same thing. I would suppose the girl that Garn's "victim" killed, was so much more a victim than she is. I'll bet the parents of the girl she killed and was charged for are incensed at the victim game that she is playing to the media. She is the perpetrator of far worse than she was ever the victim of. It is interesting how her victim status is far more important, than her perpetrator status. |
| Subject: | It was illegal. That's all that matters. |
| Date: | Mar 25 13:34 |
| Author: | BadGirl |
| The adult is supposed to know better. We hold the adult legally responsible. There should be no further discussion about the minor's "responsibility" or "victimhood". It's irrelevant. |
| Subject: | However... |
| Date: | Mar 25 12:24 |
| Author: | Stray Mutt |
| ... if the girl wasn't under aged and he wasn't married, "the flattery, the come-on, the attention, the shopping, the gifts, the courting ritual, the arousal, the seduction" is pretty much standard practice in most dating situations. So it's not like he was doing anything particularly freaky, he was just the wrong guy doing it with the wrong person. |
| Subject: | It's freaky when it's done to a child. n/t |
| Subject: | those are pretty big IFs |
| Date: | Mar 25 16:14 |
| Author: | Lilith |
| Kind of like the thread that pops us here regularly:
IF the church turned out to be TRUE..etc etc etc. She WAS 15 and he was old enough to know better. I vote freaky. |
| Subject: | I could have phrased it better. |
| Date: | Mar 25 17:14 |
| Author: | Stray Mutt |
| In any other situation, where the two people are single adults, "the flattery, the come-on, the attention, the shopping, the gifts, the courting ritual, the arousal, the seduction" are regular parts of dating. Twinker seems to perceive them as some kind of special pedophiliac stalking techniques. They're not. They're just how men try to attract women. The problem was Garn used those techniques with an under aged girl. While he was married. If he had done exactly the same things with an adult, people would only be clucking their tongues about infidelity and hypocrisy. |
| Subject: | I said nothing about stalking. |
| Date: | Mar 25 21:41 |
| Author: | Twinker |
| It was about "grooming" which is the singular
technique of pedophiles. And my sense is that it was her realization of how she had been groomed, exploited, used, and dumped while he went on with his important, highfaluting, grandiose life that was the real humiliation to her and hence generated much of her anger. |
| Subject: | Even if she threw herself at him, it was still ILLEGAL and he knew it!! |
| Date: | Mar 25 17:24 |
| Author: | I believed this all once, years ago... |
| as her employer (money) and Sunday School teacher
(authority) he shamelessly manipulated her. She could have said no, but I have no doubt he had groomed her for years before the "hot tub" incident. |
| Subject: | Re: Too much emphasis on the hot tub, not enough on . .. |
| Date: | Mar 26 02:39 |
| Author: | Reinventing Grace (not logged in) |
| Twinker has it right. It certainly wasn't a case of married man and girl happening upon each other and man saying "let's get in the hot tub, you don't need a swimsuit." Much more a case of gradual building of trust with girl (and presumably her parents, and any church members who might take notice). First it's talking to her, then it's the odd ride home in his car, then it's flirting. A few steps later she finds herself * with him * somewhere on State St. * no money, no phone, no ride home * hopelessly in love, possibly horny as a toad, * and he says she doesn't need a swimming suit. I doubt a 15 yr old Mormon girl in 1985 had ever received good instruction on "how to say no." But she certainly *had* been taught to respect her priesthood leaders and not raise a fuss. And all this in an environment of religious instruction that abounds in contradiction. So, what was she supposed to do? Ask him to take her home? And lose his future affection, possibly get ratted out by him, subject herself to whatever discipline/harassment he could easily bring on her in The Ward? Or follow her man into the hot tub and enjoy the company of a man who was really into massage. For anyone who wants to blame the girl in not having the spine to say no, or for ratting on him 15 years later when if he had been a 17 yr old kid there would have been nothing to rat on, I say sure, but you might consider that about 99.9% of the blame is on the grooming adult, otherwise you might miss seeing things like this happen to kids you love. Disregard the effects of grooming at your own peril. RG |
| Subject: | just like LD$, Inc.: |
| Date: | Mar 14 12:32 |
| Author: | Guy Noir, Private Eye |
| reward the abuser, ex the victim. I DIDN'T read that the 'actual pay-off' occurred in the Bps office, however... |
| Subject: | You're right, pre-pay off meeting took place in victim's Bishop's Office. nt |
| Subject: | Nudity with a minor = life on the sex offender registry |
| Date: | Mar 14 12:37 |
| Author: | elee |
| What Garn has been doing is trying to avoid being legally prosecuted for what he did. And LDS,Inc. has been helping him do that. |
| Subject: | I don't think sex offender registries existed 20 years ago. |
| Date: | Mar 14 14:36 |
| Author: | J. Chan |
| At least not in Utah. Garn's primary motivation in paying off the girl was protecting his political career. |
| Subject: | Paying bribes and stopping the article from being published... |
| Date: | Mar 14 16:50 |
| Author: | MJ |
| ...is NOT doing everything possible to make amends. He was doing everything possible to stop his reputation from being damaged. He was still telling lies to the public to which he was accountable to. |
| Subject: | Source for Garn's comment about the lack of necessity for a bathing suit in the hot tub . . . |
| Date: | Mar 14 17:12 |
| Author: | steve benson |
| "'Then there was a day when he took me to Salt Lake,
and he stopped and got alcohol, and we ended up at this hot-tub place on
State Street. I was scared. I said, "I don't have a suit." He said, "You
don't need one," ' Maher wrote. (Lee Davidson, "Cheryl Maher says Kevin Garn lied about hot tub contact: Hush money may have violated election laws, " in "Deseret News," Salt Lake City, Utah, 12 March 2010, at: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700016074/Cheryl-Maher-says-Kevin-Garn-lied-about-hot-tub-contact.html) |
| Subject: | BS! He stopped to buy alcohol on the way to the hot tub place! It was clearly his intent!n/t |
| Subject: | Source for the allegation of Garn's pre-tub cruise for booze . . . |
| Date: | Mar 14 16:27 |
| Author: | steve benson |
| "'Then there was a day when he took me to Salt Lake,
and he stopped and got alcohol, and we ended up at this hot-tub place on
State Street. I was scared. I said, "I don't have a suit." He said, "You
don't need one,' ' Maher wrote." (Lee Davidson, "Cheryl Maher says Kevin Garn lied about hot tub contact: Hush money may have violated election laws, " in "Deseret News," Salt Lake City, Utah, 12 March 2010, at: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700016074/Cheryl-Maher-says-Kevin-Garn-lied-about-hot-tub-contact.html) _____ "In an e-mail, she [victim Maher] said . . . when she worked for him, Garn would stare at her, take her to lunch and shopping, and finally to a hot tub -- after stopping first for alcohol." (Andrew Adams and John Hollenhorst, "Woman says Garn isn't telling the whole truth," KSL TV Channel 5, Salt Lake City, Utah, 12 March 2010, at: http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=9992708) |
| Subject: | Thanks for backing up the booze purchase statement with the original source! n/t |
| Subject: | Give me a break |
| Date: | Mar 14 12:44 |
| Author: | síóg |
| 'LDS Church spokesman Scott Trotter sent a statement
late Friday to The Tribune , saying "legal requirements concerning
priest-penitent privilege prevent the Church from talking about the
specifics of meetings between members and ecclesiastical leaders."' Yeah, right. They respect the 'priest-penitent privilege' when it suits them. In all other cases, it's all over the ward after the next ward council meeting. |
| Subject: | LD$: Legalistic S.O.B.s... |
| Date: | Mar 14 12:48 |
| Author: | Guy Noir, Private Eye |
| they're 'Over the Line' when it comes to
opportunistic, aren't they? (in this case) "legal requirements" = B.S. |
| Subject: | Re: Teenage vixen cum blackmailer. |
| Date: | Mar 14 14:24 |
| Author: | I agree |
| Glo wrote: > Yeah, he was older and all. I know, I know. > But this little church girl is hardly an innocent victim. It's good to see some people have common sense. I agree with you Glo. |
| Subject: | It was more than "he was older and all." He was an adult and she was a minor . . . |
| Date: | Mar 14 16:02 |
| Author: | steve benson |
| Sounds like you would have also been a good apologist for Joseph Smith's (as well as other fundy LDS patriarchal perverts') sexual predation on under-age females. |
| Subject: | Re: Teenage vixen cum blackmailer. It doesn't matter. |
| Date: | Mar 14 18:06 |
| Author: | Matt |
| You must understand that laws regarding sex and children are designed to protect them from themselves as well as predatory adults. |
| Subject: | SLTrib quote: "Maher said Garn was her LDS Sunday School teacher when |
| Date: | Mar 14 13:33 |
| Author: | Twinker |
| she was in 4th grade." Can you say "G R O O M I N G"? |
| Subject: | Lawbreaking lawmaker? Since Garn offered the hush money to help him in his race for Congress . . . |
| Date: | Mar 14 13:48 |
| Author: | steve benson |
| . . . did he report it on his campaign expense form,
as he arguably should have?: ". . . Garn may have violated election laws by not disclosing on federal forms that he paid Maher $150,000 in 2002 — the year he ran for Congress — to keep quiet." (Lee Davidson, "Cheryl Maher says Kevin Garn lied about hot tub contact: Hush money may have violated election laws," in "Deseret News," 12 March 2010, at: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700016074/Cheryl-Maher-says-Kevin-Garn-lied-about-hot-tub-contact.html) |
| Subject: | What really bothers me and I'm surprised more haven't... |
| Date: | Mar 14 14:01 |
| Author: | Orthus |
| mentioned, is the last sentence of the article. Classic underhanded attempt at smearing the credibility of the victim. Who knows, maybe Garn's predatory, and sexual grooming behavior didn't create problems for the victim later that caused the divorce. |
| Subject: | Re: The HotTub payoff took place in a Bishop's Office! (misleading sub corrected inside) |
| Date: | Mar 14 14:30 |
| Author: | Bobcat |
| This story just gets better & better as I follow it on this board! Who would have thought that UT politics could be full of such skull-duggery? |
| Subject: | The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has zero tolerance for sexual abuse |
| Date: | Mar 14 14:35 |
| Author: | Dave The Atheist |
| "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has zero tolerance for
sexual abuse of any kind, especially instances involving minors," Trotter
said. "It takes such allegations very seriously. When allegations of abuse
surface, it is a tragedy for all involved." =============================================== I guess the boy scouts didn't get the memo. |
| Subject: | "It is a tragedy for all involved." Say WHAT?! |
| Date: | Mar 14 15:35 |
| Author: | munchybotaz |
| I'm pretty sure they meant for that paragraph to say
nothing, and they almost succeeded, but what it says is that sexual abuse is
a tragedy for the abusers, too, in general. So, like, if some Mormon predator rapes a child, that's a tragedy for the rapist. Yep yep yep, that's what they said. I don't think we know enough about what happened between Kevin Garn and Cheryl Maher to say it's a tragedy for either one, but I'm leaning toward a married adult man deserving what he gets for being an idiot ... even in the eighties. And if he was a churchgoing married adult man in the eighties, he deserves it even more. Those of us who weren't flaming TBMs in the eighties know how easy it was to wind up naked in a hot tub, but it was apparently just the two of them and damn, dude, she was 15. There's no way he didn't take advantage. I just don't see how it can be a tragedy for him. I still think it's a lame scandal, but it's pretty awesome that the church is getting some negative publicity out of it. And they *are* trying to discredit the victim to deflect attention from their involvement. |
| Subject: | Re: "It is a tragedy for all involved." Say WHAT?! |
| Date: | Mar 14 15:39 |
| Author: | Bobcat |
| munchybotaz-I love your insight! You are so right on! |
| Subject: | I also thought it was slimy |
| Date: | Mar 14 15:48 |
| Author: | CA girl |
| that the newspaper just HAD to mention she'd been excommunicated in the last line of the article and that it was for an extramarital affair. Such an obvious attempt to discredit the woman. |
| Subject: | Re: I also thought it was slimy |
| Date: | Mar 15 02:54 |
| Author: | hell's angel |
| That's because she needs to be discredited. She's not
good to her word and is being malicious by stirring this shit up. I am in no means advocating Garn's behavior, nor am I condoning Maher for hers. |
| Subject: | Don'tcha think, had he been a JackMormon and it got around the neighborhood |
| Date: | Mar 14 16:18 |
| Author: | Twinker |
| that he'd been hot tubbing with a minor while he was married, that he would've been excommunicated? Why hasn't he been excommunicated? |
| Subject: | Which got me thinking . . . does the amount of tithing one pays |
| Date: | Mar 14 16:21 |
| Author: | Twinker |
| enter into the decision about whether or not to excommunicate someone? |
| Subject: | Excommunicated, arrested, and... |
| Date: | Mar 14 16:41 |
| Author: | coleman |
| ...the ward and stake rumor mill would have demolished the guy. He would be living in a trailer park and working at a 7-11. |
| Subject: | Re: The HotTub payoff took place in a Bishop's Office! (misleading sub corrected inside) |
| Date: | Mar 14 16:31 |
| Author: | Kevin |
| This goes to show you what a complete and utter joke the mormon excommunication system is. |
| Subject: | "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has zero tolerance for sexual abuse of any kind... |
| Date: | Mar 14 16:47 |
| Author: | What's So New? |
| ... especially instances involving minors," -- Church
PR HOWEVER when the abuser is the Prophet Joseph Smith Jr. and the minor is a 14-year-old, then the church has infinite tolerance, total denial, and a multitude of great excuses! Maybe Garn was commanded to go naked into that hot tub by an "Angel with A Flamming Sword"? These things HAVE happened before. Many, many, many times. Especially by Mormon men in positions of power and especially to Mormon women in no position of power. The only difference is the Historical Date of the particular event. (...oh...and what about all those minors who are regularly interrogated, in private, about their sex lives by Mormon Bishops, SP's etc.?) |
| Subject: | <Snark> It probably wouldn't have happend if she wasn't such a vixen! <Snark> |
| Date: | Mar 14 18:05 |
| Author: | Devoted Exmo |
| Standing ovation? They ought to be ashamed of themselves. [Utah Legislature gave Garn a standing ovation after his disclosure] |
|
Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church www.exmormon.org |