| Subject: | Did any of you actually BELIEVE you needed a secret handshake to get into Heaven? |
| Date: | Jun 05, 2009 |
| Author: | Helamonster |
| Even when TBM [Mormon], I looked at the temple signs and tokens as symbolic and figurative. I did this, despite being told it was something literal we had to know to be admitted to the CK. I attempted to be a "cafeteria mormon" when The Stupid got to me, but it was too much to even take as symbolic, after awhile. |
| Subject: | I figured if some dude that I was shaking hands with |
| Date: | Jun 05 13:10 |
| Author: | Ron |
| on my way through the veil tried to say that my grip was slightly wrong, I'd show him the sure sign of my clinched fist in his face and head butt my way in. |
| Subject: | Yes I did |
| Date: | Jun 05 13:15 |
| Author: | ldsapostle |
| The very first time I went and received all the "covenants and other stuff" I truly believed that they were required for the special people, i.e. meaning ME. See, we are taught in the temple that we are to be Kings and Queens, Priests and Priestess, which means we MUST know more then the average person in order to get into these special places of power. Once I read the book about Masons published in 182X? by Captain Morgan?, I knew it was all fake. The first time I went to the temple I went with my parents, whom I love without measure..it breaks my heart that we were all set up like this...I am still heart broken over how I have been manipulated. Only RFM people can truly relate to the pain the church can bring to a person. |
| Subject: | No, I always saw them as symbolic and nobody ever told me otherwise. n/t |
| Subject: | Of course, because I was a tbm. Not a nom or anything else, but a tbm. |
| Date: | Jun 05 13:44 |
| Author: | Tiphanie |
| Not an uber nazi tbm but a garden-variety tbm. I
believed it because I was told to believe it. Even after going through the
temple so many times without ever feeling anything but completely creeped
out by mormon temple rituals. :P |
| Subject: | Re: Did any of you actually BELIEVE you needed a secret handshake to get into Heaven? OH..NO... |
| Date: | Jun 05 13:47 |
| Author: | SusieQ#1 |
| that was not how I understood it. It was just part of
the traditional rituals that I never took literally anyhow. There was a comment about Adam and Eve being figurative ..so I figured that applied to the rest also. |
| Subject: | Re: Did any of you actually BELIEVE you needed a secret handshake to get into Heaven? OH..NO... |
| Date: | Jun 05 14:27 |
| Author: | Holy the Ghost |
| "Brethren and sisters, as you sit here, you will hear
the voices of three persons who represent Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael.
Elohim will command Jehovah and Michael to go down and organize a world. The
work of the six creative periods will be represented. They will also
organize man in their own likeness and image, male and female. This,
however, is simply figurative so far as the man and woman are concerned." --the "figurative" proviso only alluded to Adam and Eve. It didn't even apply to the entire description of the creation. So I don't think it could be taken to refer to entire ceremony. |
| Subject: | Re: Did any of you actually BELIEVE you needed a secret handshake to get into Heaven? OH..NO... |
| Date: | Jun 05 16:14 |
| Author: | SusieQ#1 |
| Holy the Ghost wrote: > "Brethren and sisters, as you sit here, you will hear the voices of three persons who represent Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael. Elohim will command Jehovah and Michael to go down and organize a world. The work of the six creative periods will be represented. They will also organize man in their own likeness and image, male and female. This, however, is simply figurative so far as the man and woman are concerned." > --the "figurative" proviso only alluded to Adam and Eve. It didn't even apply to the entire description of the creation. So I don't think it could be taken to refer to entire ceremony. In my mind, it was all from Adam and Eve, so clearly, nothing was anything but figurative and never literal. It was impossible to believe any of it was literal in my mind. No way. |
| Subject: | I hear many people try to justify it that way now |
| Date: | Jun 05 18:01 |
| Author: | NormaRae |
| It's always "well you have to remember that it's
figurative," and then when you ask them what that means you get the whole
"we can't discuss it outside the temple." So they've found a way to
compartmentalize it. I ABSOLUTELY believed I had to know those handshakes. It freaked me out, I thought it was weird, but I thought there was something wrong with me for feeling that way and not being able to feel how spertchul it all was. So I hate it so bad now when people tell me I must have never really had a testimony. Hello! If I didn't would I have worn those stupid nylon one-piece uglyass garments in Okinawa for three summers when it would be 200 degrees with 300% humidity???? I believed I had to do that as strongly as I believed I'd someday be giving the Lard the handshake. |
| Subject: | It was the last straw for me. |
| Date: | Jun 05 13:58 |
| Author: | Susan I/S |
| I think maybe because I found out a lot of things as a kid that I had a different perspective. I already had "Issues" and didn't want to be baptized. MMM, polygamy, exclusion of all but The Chosen. I was just outgrowing my own little clubs and tree house forts with secret names and passwords. I was...8/9. Finding out that is what went on in the temple was just too absurd. I didn't believe the kid that told me at first until I blurted it all out to my Grandmother. I thought she was going to have a heart attack on the spot and from the things she said it was obvious what I had been told was true. Of course, I got punished. Sigh. I got punished a lot :) |
| Subject: | You got punished for asking a question?!! |
| Date: | Jun 05 18:53 |
| Author: | No way! |
| You got punished for telling the truth? For repeating what you heard? How awful. I can't believe you'd get punished for innocently asking a question. That really stinks. |
| Subject: | actually BELIEVE ? |
| Date: | Jun 05 14:16 |
| Author: | LifeIsGreatNow |
| Yes, I did. I felt privileged to have this secret
knowledge. I also had no problem that the masons for King Salomon's temple
had these ordinances, or so I believed. That modern Masons had an
"incomplete" version of Joseph Smith's "inspired" version was also not a
problem for me. I was a trusting person. I knew that in order to "make it" to the Celestial Kingdom that I had to be someone with extraordinary faith. I took it all, hook, line, and sinker. |
| Subject: | I just figured if worse came to worse ... |
| Date: | Jun 05 16:08 |
| Author: | Timothy |
| ... I'd quietly slip the gatekeeper a Franklin and
that would be that. Anyone know what the current exchange rate is up yonder? Timothy |
| Subject: | Re: I just figured if worse came to worse ... |
| Date: | Jun 05 16:12 |
| Author: | bona dea |
| I never went to the temple and didn't know about the secret handshakes, but I believed God was omnipotent and omniscient so I'm sure I would have thought it was symbolic.GOD WOULD HAVE TO BE AN IDIOT TO NEED HANDSHAKES AND PASSWORDS. I'm pretty sure the whole thing would have freaked me out. |
| Subject: | The handshakes were one of my "WTF?" moments. |
| Date: | Jun 05 16:20 |
| Author: | Helamonster |
| I realized that if we were supposed to LITERALLY have to know the handshakes to get into the CK, then amputees were pretty much screwed. Not a way that any supposedly omnipotent or omniscient being would run things, I'm thinking. |
| Subject: | Never did the endowment thing either, BUT ... |
| Date: | Jun 05 16:29 |
| Author: | Timothy |
| ... I did get sealed to my parents when I was like
twelve or something. I remember being in that room with mirrors on opposing walls that was supposed to depict eternity. Bored out of my mind, I began to ponder the odd coincidences between presidents Lincoln and Kennedy - you know, how Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy and Kennedy had a secretary named Lincoln - when it suddenly dawned on me that I once played with my Lincoln Logs at the Kennedy Center! Creepy stuff, eh? Timothy |
| Subject: | I don't know the current exchange rate for celestial dollars..... |
| Date: | Jun 05 16:42 |
| Author: | Jonny the Smoke |
| ...but a case good quality beer would probably suffice. |
| Subject: | I remember being worried about memorizing all of it. |
| Date: | Jun 05 16:38 |
| Author: | JBug |
| It was all so damn complicated!!! I couldn't imagine
memorizing all the handshakes and replies and tokens. [Until a few years
ago, we had to travel 6 hours to go to a Handshake House] I was very niave
and believed ALL of the tripe they dish out. I was actually worried, because
I couldn't practice any of it outside the temple and we didn't live close
enough to go very often. I love that I am not the least bit concerned about that now. It's all a big con to suck in the money and time of the members. |
| Subject: | I wasn't sure on that |
| Date: | Jun 05 16:38 |
| Author: | angsty |
| The church is so vague on what's to be taken literally vs. symbolically that I figured that must be one of the great secrets of the temple that would supposedly make more sense with my faithful attendance. |
| Subject: | Exactly. Look how responses vary on this thread. |
| Date: | Jun 05 16:40 |
| Author: | Helamonster |
| Half say they were told to take it all literally, and
the other half weren't. The church does this deliberately, I think. That's why, whenever someone posts a truly outrageous story about the behavior of church officals here, I tend to believe it until proven otherwise; the wacky world of "mormon doctrine" makes most things possible. |
| Subject: | At first I think so. I was worried I wouldn't be able to remember it all. |
| Date: | Jun 05 16:39 |
| Author: | badseed |
| I got older, thought more about it and realized it was just a really silly idea. |
| Subject: | Re: I quickly realized... |
| Date: | Jun 05 16:53 |
| Author: | Rocket to Kolob |
| I got more of my fraternity ceremony than I did the
temple, in my pre-morg days. Of course telling that to my TBM wife I could
see her cringe and as I drifted away from the TSCC and got active with our
alumni group and participated in "secret" combinations outside of the temple
I realized that again. The whole temple experience is a fraternal ceremony purporting to have eternal consequences. If you believe in Christianity from the NT then you will realize the Morg Temple of Doom is not necessary. Or as in my case have retreated to a deist point of view, then the notion of secret handshakes for eternal salvation is just plain dumb. |
| Subject: | Holy International House of Handshakes, Fratman! |
| Date: | Jun 05 16:56 |
| Author: | Jes |
| The first time I went through, back when the gore was all still part of the ceremony, I was just sick to my stomach all the way through. I felt it *must* be true that all this was necessary since I was in the Temple of the Lord...but, it never *felt* right -- why would the God the Eternal Father only recognize me thought signs, tokens, and grips, a new and ugly name and a secret password? Where was my decoder ring? Less like a House of God and more like the International House of Handshakes....it was far from what I imagined this solemn and holy experience to be. Still, I tried my best to believe it and live it, until my brain broke out in BE hives. |
| Subject: | I also remember thinking this was a lot like "Secret Combinations". |
| Date: | Jun 05 17:02 |
| Author: | JBug |
| You know, the ones mentioned in the BoM [which I
actually read several times, and took seriously until I discovered it was
all made up and a lie]. I couldn't help but wonder WHY there were "Secret Combinations" in the temple if the BoM had preached against them! You bet I shoved THAT thought down as far as it would go! |
| Subject: | Re: I also remember thinking this was a lot like "Secret Combinations". |
| Date: | Jun 05 17:06 |
| Author: | bona dea |
| When I was at the U, I still believed to some extent even though I wasn't active.I knew very little about the temple at that time. I remember hearing sorority girls alluding to their top secret ceremonies and rites and thinking how silly and childsh it all sounded. Little did I know. |
| Subject: | Re: Did any of you actually BELIEVE you needed a secret handshake to get into Heaven? |
| Date: | Jun 05 17:14 |
| Author: | No Moniker |
| I've had several TBMs tell me that the handshakes and
passwords are just symbolic. Symbolic of what? |
| Subject: | Re: Did any of you actually BELIEVE you needed a secret handshake to get into Heaven? |
| Date: | Jun 05 18:26 |
| Author: | JackMormon'sWife |
| Yeeeesssss . . . Hangs head in embarrassment, Shannon ;o) |
| Subject: | I all that secret stuff that's redone each time one goes to the temple is just symbolic, |
| Date: | Jun 05 18:37 |
| Author: | Serena |
| then why bother knowing it? Sure sounds that they take
it pretty seriously, enough to make death oaths over! When I asked my 1st
set of mishies about it, they said it was just symbolic. Symbolic of what? I
asked, but they just stammered and got more red-faced. Dang, I wasn't
supposed to know any of that stuff! So secret; symbolism, my foot. It's just
more boys' club treehouse junk that Smith and his adolescent-minded cronies
were so entranced with. Really, what did you think all the secrets were symbolic of? |
| Subject: | It was just like my old sorority initiation gone bad! |
| Date: | Jun 05 18:58 |
| Author: | Park City |
| Secret password, secret handshake, only everyone was taking it seriously! Throughout the whole endowment session I recall looking at my parents, whom I totally respected, and thinking "you've got to be sh*tting me! This is why morons think they've got the lock on eternal life???? WTF!" When the whole thing was over, I left the jeezus jamies of the locker room floor and never looked back. Symbolic or literal, it's totally wacked. |
| Subject: | I have enjoyed this thread |
| Date: | Jun 05 18:58 |
| Author: | Don Bagley |
| Thank you all for your contributions. As I quit
Mormonism at twelve years of age, I never went into a temple. Thanks to all
of you for helping me to see that I'm glad I didn't do it. I might have
freaked out and made a scene. When you went through it, and said nothing, you showed that you have a strong stomach. I admire you. Of course you all figured it out later, but you were strong enough to deal with it at the time. I don't know if I could have done that. Thanks for your stories. |
| Subject: | I'm curious as to how often people attended the temple |
| Date: | Jun 05 19:19 |
| Author: | cl2 |
| How often did you go, Helamonster? (By the way, I was
happy to hear about your progress with the panic attacks, etc.) When reading this--I realized a few things. I JUST DIDN'T KNOW if I had to know these. I think I compartmentalized it. Going to the temple was a traumatic experience each and every time--because, like others have stated, I hated that I didn't know everything and I didn't know how I'd ever remember. I was too nervous to ever memorize it--what with all the old biddies watching every move you made. I made it to 4 endowment sessions and did sealings once. Sealings were the last straw--as I was sealed over and over and over again to a strange and odd older single guy who was making eyes at me while my husband was in a session. I can still see myself sitting there thinking about secret combinations, too, my first time through. I have quite an imagination and the first time through was not as bad as my imagination had conjured it up to be. BUT I never liked the temple. For those who say they would have left--you have no idea what it is like when you get in there and the peer pressure. AND you really are in a state of shock--as this is nothing like the religion you were raised in. AND getting sealed or doing baptisms--doesn't even come close to the endowment and washings and annointings. Mere words cannot describe the temple experience. |
| Subject: | Thanks. We tried to attend monthly, but it worked out to about 9 times a year... |
| Date: | Jun 05 19:22 |
| Author: | Helamonster |
| for the course of ..... 9 years. Damn. I am a glutton for punishment. Always had to bribe myself to make the one-hour drive to the LA temple, though. Usually with lunch at the King's Head Pub in Santa Monica. But even that was torturous, as I couldn't have a pint of Old Peculier or McEwans when I was there. <SIGH> |
| Subject: | Re: Did any of you actually BELIEVE you needed a secret handshake to get into Heaven? |
| Date: | Jun 05 22:55 |
| Author: | ? |
| Wouldn't it be a surprise, if when you died protruding
through the curtain was an erect penis. The true symbolism of the church. What hand shake would you greet the thing with? |
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