| Subject: | How many nevermos in your lives don't believe your Mormon horror stories? |
| Date: | Jun 05, 2009 |
| Author: | Helamonster |
| The nevermos on my dad's side of my family have never
believed the stories I've told them of my mormon experiences and how
mean-spirited and idiotic some mormons (and nearly all mormon leadership)
can be. They say, "the mormons I know are good people and take care of their own". On the other hand, my dad's side of the family "thinks" similarly to Raymond about most issues, so that could be the explanation right there... |
| Subject: | Re: How many nevermos in your lives don't believe your morg horror stories? |
| Date: | Jun 05 18:04 |
| Author: | SusieQ#1 |
| I have found it's pointless to share any "horror" stories with most non-LDS
folks as they have only had experiences that produce the : Mormons are such
good people! Ya, I usually say, Most people are good people! Only someone who has gone through the specific kinds of experiences (horror stories, for instance) in the LDS Church "gets it" - a lot of Mormons sure don't "get it" either. The church is perfect, the people are not. I was told to forgive them --- so I forgave the bizarre leaders their ignorance... and I left and never came back! I relied on a Biblical scripture at the time... from NT when Jesus said to "forgive them for they know not what they do"... (Well, that's close! ) I found it comforting to use their own teachings against them! :-) |
| Subject: | Re: How many nevermos in your lives don't believe your morg horror stories? |
| Date: | Jun 06 10:15 |
| Author: | sherv |
| Susie, that is the perfect scripture reference for
MOST Mormons regarding forgiveness. On the other hand, for those who DO know
what they are doing and continue to lie and fake their strong belief and
continue to draw in more people with deception, then the scripture reference
does not apply at all. My aunt is one of those who thinks Mormons are such good people. She only knows what she sees riding bikes. She is so ill-informed. I wanted to tell her how disappointed I was about my daughter's conversion but knew she wouldn't get it. She is too old. |
| Subject: | None |
| Date: | Jun 05 18:04 |
| Author: | NormaRae |
| I've had people listen to my stories (most of them just explaining something about Mormonism, not purposely meant to shock them), and even though they might not believe it at first, I think the general consensus is usually "It must be true because no one could make this crazyshit up!" |
| Subject: | I don't tell them really... |
| Date: | Jun 05 18:41 |
| Author: | alscai |
| because I'm still not sure how to respond to the obvious question "So why did you stay in it so long if it was so bad? I don't get it." |
| Subject: | Re: I don't tell them really... |
| Date: | Jun 06 09:56 |
| Author: | sherv |
| The obvious answer to your question is "I stayed because of family or spouse, etc. Then say... "but once I read a lot of material on the "church" I could no longer support it." That would suffice. No one who is nevermo would find that confusing. |
| Subject: | Re: None |
| Date: | Jun 06 10:10 |
| Author: | sherv |
| You have explained it correctly. Most nevermos do not doubt stories told to us by former Mormons- or practicing ones. We know this can't be made up. And we recognize when the sheeple are blindly following without questioning. It's quite sad really. |
| Subject: | my counselor TOTALLY buys 'em |
| Date: | Jun 05 19:04 |
| Author: | Pies |
| And that is gratifying to have been consistently validated by a highly educated and decent professional. His favorite descriptive is the term "programmed". For so long, I was sooo sure it was and had always been something deficient in my thought processing. Whew! |
| Subject: | I'm a nevermo who believes the stories ... |
| Date: | Jun 05 19:10 |
| Author: | reddirt |
| I live in Utah and have been visiting this site for some time now |
| Subject: | Even people on this site didn't believe my horror |
| Date: | Jun 05 19:08 |
| Author: | cl2 |
| stories. My nonmormon friends actually have believed every horror story I've ever told them about my mormon experiences. |
| Subject: | You beat me to the exact same sentiment. |
| Date: | Jun 05 19:28 |
| Author: | Tiphanie |
| Although the nevermos I know hesitate to accept what
mormonism is like on the inside, there's a lot of resistance here as well at
times. I understand the fear of acknowledging what I went through, though...
kind of a survivor's guilt, like the people who missed that doomed Air
France jet. Add in some terror over ''What if it had been me instead of her
being assaulted? Was she victimized because she was sinful and brought it on
herself like the morg said happens?'' Mixed in with fear that maybe it was
happening to a best friend but no one ever realized it because we weren't
allowed to acknowledge anything bad happening within the morg ''If only I
had realized, I could have helped somehow, but I didn't. What's wrong with
me?'' If we don't know whether to believe someone or not, look inside. Maybe our intuition is telling us they're slick. Maybe our panic is telling us that we suffered abuses, too, that we've not yet understood nor faced. Maybe there's a lot of mormon sh*t we're all still recovering from. Just stop all defending of the morg and mormonism here. Our minds have already been badly f****d over by so many mormons... don't continue that horrid behavior here. |
| Subject: | Excellent. |
| Date: | Jun 05 19:37 |
| Author: | cl2 |
| Because of my programming, I didn't realize it was the
LDS church who had set me up for the fall--not gays. I hated gays for
several years after my ex left me. You are very right with the statement that maybe our panic is telling us that we suffered abuses, too. I'm actually the type of person who believes those things that people tell me that happened to them (unless they prove to me later that they are untrustworthy)--but I really didn't associate my experiences completely with the lds church until I came to this board. It was cathartic, but horrifying at the same time. I never could have come to terms with a lot of things that happened to me if I didn't have this board. I had to acknowledge to myself where the damage came from. It is really hard for MOST OF US to accept that it was this organization we have been taught all our lives to trust and respect. |
| Subject: | You're right - "cathartic but horrifying" |
| Date: | Jun 06 00:15 |
| Author: | Tiphanie |
| The morg has had such a pervasively
damaging/destructive effect upon our lives that it can be freakin' scary to
see just how much of our lives have been soiled by the morg. Which is one
reason I write so many mormon words ''incorrectly'' - to help release their
hold upon me. In many ways we were bullied, humiliated, shamed, threatened
into ''blindly'' obeying the morg and its leaders. The oppression came with
a price - is that part of why it can be so hard to understand how much
damage it did to us? mormonism is like one of those nasty cancers that sends out tendrils and invades every single nook and cranny it can. Yet complete recovery requires we eliminate all the tendrils, not just some of them. Fortunately, we can eliminate entire branches of them as we heal so the job isn't overwhelming as it might sometimes seem. |
| Subject: | Actually...my whole office LOVES my stories |
| Date: | Jun 05 19:09 |
| Author: | Tiff |
| Because they are almost too bizarre. I've spent
countless lunches mobbed by my co-workers in the small break room telling
stories because of how much they like to hear them. Most of the time, at the
end, they walk off shaking their head, but they always believe what I say.
Sometimes just telling the stories outloud to them makes me realize how
ridiculous the situations really are. One of my psychology professors has actually asked me to return next year as a guest lecturer on the subject since my half an hour presentation this semester on what it was loke growing up in a Mormon family turned into an hour long lecture. The students and the professor had a lot of questions and seemed to really enjoy the whole deal. |
| Subject: | Some mos like to talk with me the "nevermo" ... |
| Date: | Jun 05 19:29 |
| Author: | reddirt |
| we have some good conversations even on TSCC [this so
called church]. I feel there are many good mos out there that are trapped. I can see how if I were BIC how I would have to deal with with the same issues. I notice many are opening up from the conversations we have. Some now drink coffee in front of me (recently) and their ages vary (approx. 21-55). I'm glad to see it! |
| Subject: | Re: Actually...my whole office LOVES my stories |
| Date: | Jun 05 22:48 |
| Author: | anonny nomo |
| Tiff wrote: > Because they are almost too bizarre. I've spent countless lunches mobbed by my co-workers in the small break room telling stories because of how much they like to hear them. Most of the time, at the end, they walk off shaking their head, but they always believe what I say. Sometimes just telling the stories outloud to them makes me realize how ridiculous the situations really are. > > One of my psychology professors has actually asked me to return next year as a guest lecturer on the subject since my half an hour presentation this semester on what it was loke growing up in a Mormon family turned into an hour long lecture. The students and the professor had a lot of questions and seemed to really enjoy the whole deal. ------------------------------------ Great idea! Just think, when you tell a class, they tell their friends and family and people they meet. You have spread the light to many people. I have to be careful because I live outside Washington DC and there is big flock in the area because of the temple. You never KNOW where a morg might be lurking.,,,, |
| Subject: | Re: Actually...my whole office LOVES my stories |
| Date: | Jun 06 10:00 |
| Author: | sherv |
| Tiff, are you in Utah? I am thinking not if the students enjoyed your lecture. I wish I could have been there. It's great he has asked you back. And yes, I can imagine the coworkers listening to your stories of Mormonism. I sure would have been spellbound. |
| Subject: | They believe my stories but it still leaves them with their mouths open |
| Date: | Jun 05 23:43 |
| Author: | Helen |
| What shocked one of my good non-Mormon friends about
Mormonism was when I was telling her it took me seven months to get my name
removed from the records. She said, “What do you mean!!!??? Can’t you just leave?” I explained it and she just kept expressing her shock that the Church had so much control over one’s membership. I laughed and said it’s too bad it wasn’t as hard to join as it was to leave for then maybe when I was that young naïve girl I wouldn’t have ever joined. The latest shock I gave my friends was telling them Obama's mother is now a Mormon:-) [temple baptism for the dead] I admit I said it exactly that way for the shock effect. I have a great bunch of friends here, ex-catholics, ex-protestants, and myself an ex-mormon. The vote is in and I am the one who belonged to the weirdest church among us. |
| Subject: | Re: How many nevermos in your lives don't believe your morg horror stories? |
| Date: | Jun 05 23:59 |
| Author: | forestpal |
| (The Mormon cult deat-dunked Obama's mother in the
temple!) Tiphanie said, >"Just stop all defending of the morg and mormonism here. Our minds have already been badly f****d over by so many mormons... don't continue that horrid behavior here. cl2 said, >"I never could have come to terms with a lot of things that happened to me if I didn't have this board. I had to acknowledge to myself where the damage came from. It is really hard for MOST OF US to accept that it was this organization we have been taught all our lives to trust and respect." I hope the Mormon apologists don't overrun and destroy this board. RFM saved my life! My whole world was turned upside-down and inside-out. I know the feeling, too, when I hear my own words in telling my own horror stories, and those of my children. Even I think, "Can this be real? How could this have happened to a good little girl, with two good parents, in affluent suburbia, in front of everyone's nose? How come no one was ever punished for all this abuse." I underplay things, sometimes, because I don't think people will believe what really happened. I also don't want to depress people. I wouldn't blame people if they didn't believe me. I really do sense that people must think I am responsible for everything that happened. Blame the victim. Blame the woman. This attitude keeps me separated from Mormons right now, and maybe forever. You people on RFM are the only people who understand. I am not alone--but that makes me very sad for the others who have been abused, too. I pray that we can get through this! My nevermo friends, growing up, actually met my parents and my brothers. They knew I was being bullied and overly punished, and constantly put down. I actually took some of my nevermo friends to church. I told them all the Joseph Smith story. We'd have long, religious debates late into the night. They tried to convince me that Mormonism was a crazy cult, but I wouldn't listen. They believed the horror stories, and tried to intervene. My parents did not like me hanging out with nevermos. My family doesn't believe the severity and frequency of the beatings I suffered from my temple ex. They downplay the whole marriage, and tell people I got tired of him. They are ashamed of the violence--even though it wasn't my fault. My brothers and parents used to harrass me for being divorced, but they never mentioned the abuse ever again. They saw my injuries, and heard the testimonies of the witnesses, but I always had the feeling they didn't quite believe it, or they were in denial. When my second husband abandoned me and the children, nobody wanted to hear the details about that at all. I never tried to anyone about it. They all blamed me. I think, as a group, nevermos are more believing of my horror stories. They know the Morg history of polygamy, and their hatred of gays, the shame unflicted on unmarried people, and the harsh, physical punishment of Mormon parents on children. Good post, Helamonster. IMO, the Mormons disbelieve and deny the abuse that goes on, and the nevermos believe what they see and hear. It is the MORMONS themselves who say, "The Mormon church is very family-oriented, and a good place to raise children." I have not heard a nevermo say that in my entire life! Oh yeah, I have not said a word about how we've been treated after leaving the church. I'm afraid my nevermo friends would think I'm paranoid, if I were to tell them about the shunning, and about groups of men knocking at my door, and neighbors I used to work with in music and scouts come into my house and threaten me and insult me in front of my children. I really don't think they would believe anyone could be that nasty to me. I'm so ashamed of ever belonging to that cult, of being one of those awful people. |
| Subject: | When I was working on my terminal degree I wrote. . . |
| Date: | Jun 06 00:03 |
| Author: | ken [former CES teacher and leader] |
| A lot of papers describing the LDS Church Educational
System's approach to education administration, academic freedom, curriculum
development, recruitment, etc. Jaws usually dropped with a loud thud as they listened in wide-eyed disbelief. The members of the seminar classes were shocked. And the question and answer sessions always went far over time. The most common comment was, "It sounds like a cult" and "I know Mormons and I had no idea they bought into that kind of thing." and finally, "Why do you stay in?" (My answer was, I'm trying to get out.) The common thread in most of the papers was the autocratic control on the part of leaders, and members' willingness to blindly follow. |
| Subject: | I don't even try to tell most of them. . . |
| Date: | Jun 06 00:29 |
| Author: | JoAnn |
| Mail Address: |
| It's like trying to share a "Star Trek" episode with somebody who never watched the series. They have no frame of reference. They can't understand. |
| Subject: | Mixed reactions, from astonishment to saying I was making too big a deal of it. nt |
| Subject: | They know the stories are true but they dismiss them. |
| Date: | Jun 06 01:46 |
| Author: | can't log in here |
| They [Mormons] keep saying "well, that person was not typical"
or "the church is true, even if the people aren't". I had doubts since college, but a series of events culminating in a bad experience with a heartless bishop led me to RFM and out of the church. To this day my dad bemoans the fact that my "evil" bishop led me out of the church. He keeps saying that he thinks that bishop "will be held accountable before God" because his actions led me to find this board and the truth. Yes, I know that sounds weird, but there it is. My nevermo friends believe it and seem to find it all very fascinating. Mostly because I'm not in the Mo corridor, so I am the only ex-cult member some people have ever met. |
| Subject: | Re: They know the stories are true but they dismiss them. |
| Date: | Jun 06 10:07 |
| Author: | sherv |
| So your Dad blames one man for your exit? Will he not listen to the other things you have learned. If he refused to believe them he should at least listen to his child's reasons for leaving. I can't get over how parents in the Mormon cult just dismiss things their own children tell them and won't analyze new information given to them by their own kids. |
| Subject: | Re: How many nevermos in your lives don't believe your morg horror stories? |
| Date: | Jun 06 01:52 |
| Author: | sherv |
| I BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU TELL ME ABOUT MORMONS-I'm nevermo...I always want to be shocked even more....it helps me continue in my struggle to rescue my child. Knowing more and more may help to get my daughter out of the "organization". It's all about the facts. |
| Subject: | Re: I'm nevermo, had Mormon friend for many years: |
| Date: | Jun 06 02:01 |
| Author: | FREEMAN |
| He never told me about all of the crazy stuff I learned by checking out this site. It was like he was embarrassed about the really weird things when I asked him about them, but he was still a devout mormon anyway. I never got that -- how can you be ashamed and proud of something at the same time? |
| Subject: | Re: How many nevermos in your lives don't believe your morg horror stories? |
| Date: | Jun 06 03:44 |
| Author: | ButterFree |
| My husband told me that he never *really* believed my
stories until he visited my family in Utah with me. Then he was sort of shocked and awed by it all, and then apologized. |
| Subject: | He**, my own mo mother does not even believe I was called in at age 12, |
| Date: | Jun 06 10:08 |
| Author: | forbe$ |
| alone, to the bishop's office and asked about masturbation. She never knew, does not care and denies it. |
| Subject: | Re: He**, my own mo mother does not even believe I was called in at age 12, |
| Date: | Jun 06 10:24 |
| Author: | sherv |
| That is really sad. If that little piece of information was given to all new Mom's( my daughter will soon be one ) it has got to make them think. I WILL be telling her what they will ask her son alone in the room with the bishop. I am wondering what she will say. It is a shame your own Mom refuses to believe it. I believe you and most here do, if not all. It is despicable!!!! And finding out about a 12 yr. old's discovery of his body will help the Morg in what way???? Lecturing him will do what????? So ridiculous!!! |
| Subject: | Just like any abuser |
| Date: | Jun 06 10:48 |
| Author: | cl2 |
| the way they go about getting us sucked in and
believing we have to accept their treatment is really insidious--especially
considering most of us were brought up from infants to believe the mormons
had it all right. It was really tough to come to this board and see people
make fun of GBH and SWK (I loved SWK). As the programming dies, you see the
truth and it is really hard to swallow, but such a relief when you realize
it wasn't your fault. Maybe you were the one who had to take responsibility
and pick up the pieces of your life--but you did what you did because you
were programmed. To me, without the blunt, in your face nature of this
board, I never would have "seen the light." I UNDERSTAND now why I did what I did--why I married who I did. I also see that marrying him SAVED ME, too--I oftentimes say that I saved my ex, just not the way the mormons thought I should. Coming to this board and reading all the other abusive experiences people went through has shown me that without marrying someone gay, I never would have found my way out. For the person who said that their dad blames that one bad bishop--what about all OUR bad bishops that we had. I have mormons tell me all the time "I don't think what he did is condoned in the church. He will have to pay for what he did." I had an ex SIL say something to me about what happened--about "just because a bishop says you should do this and this and this, doesn't mean you should." She has a daughter who had a mental breakdown about a year ago--been diagnosed with some severe form of OCD and was in the mental health ward. I told her, "So--I was suicidally depressed for over 18 months--DAILY--because I'd found out your brother is gay and he would be damned unless he changed, and they didn't send me for help. They just thought I was weighed down by the circumstances. I wasn't in my right mind--so now I'm to blame because I listened to the bishop." So--when do we listen to the leaders and when don't we? AND it wasn't just MY bishop--it was the next bishop, and my cousin the bishop I had when I got married, and BKP, and the stake president, and the LDS social services therapist, AND my very, very, very good friend, who I had worked with for years--a bishop. These aren't just isolated incidents. |
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