| Subject: | Monson urges Exmos to Return (article in USA Today) |
| Date: | Apr 06 17:54 |
| Author: | Batman |
| Here's the link and a portion of the article below. http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2008-04-06-mormons_N.htm?csp=34 Ex-Mormons urged to return By George Frey, Reuters SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormons who have strayed from their faith were invited to return to the fold Sunday by the church's new president. President Thomas S. Monson said members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are ready to welcome "the less active, the offended, the critical, the transgressor" into fellowship. "Come back," Monson said in his first address to the full church membership since becoming president in February. Monson opened his remarks by noting the passing of his predecessor, Gordon B. Hinckley, calling the late president "an outstanding ambassador of truth to the entire world and beloved by all." Hinckley died Jan. 27 at age 97 after nearly 13 years leading the church. |
| Subject: | Re: Monson urges Exmos to Return (article in USA Today) |
| Date: | Apr 06 17:58 |
| Author: | FrozenChosen |
| Why? |
| Subject: | Because they want your money... |
| Date: | Apr 06 18:46 |
| Author: | thunderforce |
| I live in Salt Lake Valley, and a TBM friend of mine
related a meeting with Tom Perry and the ward and stake leaders in our area
several weeks ago. Perry [Mormon Apostle] related that the mormon leaders are VERY concerned because US baptisms are on the decline and foreign baptisms are on the increase. Considering that the US members basically finance both the domestic and foreign side of operations, it won't be long before they are in financial trouble. My friend said that Perry used business terms to describe the situation, saying that's no way to run a corporation if revenues are going down while expenses are going up. (Interesting analogy) So they are really pushing for stateside baptisms. That would include winning back former customers, cause their money is just as good. Of course, he (my friend) qualified Perry's comments by saying the most important thing wasn't the money but the souls. (Yeah, right.) |
| Subject: | "We love you. We hate you. Don't leave us." |
| Date: | Apr 06 18:07 |
| Author: | Punky's Dilemma |
| So he calls exmos names and invites them back? If that were a serious attempt to reclaim former members I'd be appalled at the poor strategy. But that seems more like an attempt to cast exmos negatively to still-believing members...which is fairly effect if you want the still-believing to shun, judge, and disavow exmo family and friends. I slept in today, had a hot brunch with Dh and kids. Played. Took a long bath, went an another scenic hike with family and friends. Read a novel, cleaned, and am preparing to grill dinner for more friends coming over. I'm pretty okay outside of mormonism. I'm sure Tommy doesn't want me back (being a feminist, intellectual, and advocate for GLBT issues). It's over, Tommy. I'm sorry, but you need to move on. |
| Subject: | Go for it! |
| Date: | Apr 06 18:43 |
| Author: | prettygirl |
| We can respond on the Net to this piece. It give a link for responses (on the hotmail web page I think, maybe USA today's own page too)... |
| Subject: | About your subject line. . . |
| Date: | Apr 07 00:12 |
| Author: | JoAnn |
| Isn't that supposed to be the classic summary of
borderline personality disorder??? ("I love you, I hate you, please don't
leave me.") I'm sure I don't want the Mo-church back in my life, and I'd bet next year's pension, at good odds, that they don't want me back either. |
| Subject: | Here's my response |
| Date: | Apr 06 18:12 |
| Author: | Batman |
| Exmo Community Urges Mormon Leadership to Come Clean The COJCOLDS, also known as "The Mor-mons" and by the former Mormon community as LDS Inc., urges President Tommy Monson and his fellow executives to come clean with the public about the truth behind their successful marketing ploy to run a corporation masquerading as a religion. The church, which is actually a multinational corporation that receives 10 per cent of the income of its naive adherents, no questions asked, is among America's most successful cults whereinthe top leaders benefit but are secretive as to how their income and lives are led. They give the impression to their faithful flock that they have a direct link to God and Jesus, meanwhile are in the real estate business, involved in building shopping malls and other developments, running colleges and universities,other tourism related ventures such as the Polynesian Cultural Center in Hawaii. They are also reported as being the original bankers of the casino business in Las Vegas, which is higly ironic due to their anti gambling, smoking and drinking regulations for average members. The corporation-masquerading-as-religion imposes strict lifestyle rules on their members, taking up large quanitties of their time and money, meanwhile claiming to offer peace, happiness and close families. In reality, they tend to divide families by keeping them together only when engaged in Mormon activities, otherwise encouraging them to spend time segregated in various "jobs" known as "callings" and focusing on church activities rather than actual time spent together, despite their "Happy Family" rhetoric in TV commercials. They are also prone to dividing families when one or more family members decides to depart Mormonism or speaks out against its so-called doctrines and various impositions on individuals and families. |
| Subject: | odd |
| Date: | Apr 06 18:14 |
| Author: | Julie |
| He assumes we're all hanging around waiting for an
invitation to return? That amuses me. |
| Subject: | Well, let's see ... I'm not "less active", I'm MORE active ... in LIFE! I wasn't offended ... |
| Date: | Apr 06 18:30 |
| Author: | Just Little Ol' Me Not Logged In |
| ...because I think that offense is never given, it's only taken, and I choose to not worry about it. I'm not "critical" (whateverthehell THAT means), and I surely don't consider myself a "transgressor" by any standards! SO ... guess that excludes me from the invite! YAY!!!! I love it when I'm not on the "A" list! |
| Subject: | Oh, and P.S. WHY would I even WANT to go back to something that didn't work for me for 40 years? |
| Date: | Apr 06 19:44 |
| Author: | Just Little Ol' Me Not Logged In |
| The definition of "insanity" comes to mind: Repeating the same behavior and expecting a different outcome! |
| Subject: | They forgot to add...bring your checkbook with you NT |
| Subject: | There's not one thing worth returning for. Wake up, Monson. |
| Date: | Apr 06 18:45 |
| Author: | Rappaccini's Daughter |
| Your product has no value once people kick their addiction. Kind of like heroin. |
| Subject: | Hmmmm... |
| Date: | Apr 06 19:43 |
| Author: | Anon in UT |
| During conference a song was sung with the lyrics "the
wicked who fight against Zion will surely be smitten at last." During conference one man prayed that (paraphrasing, I didn't record it) God would "silence the voices and stay the hands" of the Church's critics. There was a hearty "Amen" following that prayer. There does seem to be a love-hate feeling of the Church leadership toward anyone who questions or opposes them. |
| Subject: | And this is different how? |
| Date: | Apr 06 19:58 |
| Author: | Emalee |
| Isn't this what everyone always says, or am I mistaken. Were we never welcome to return? I always thought they wanted to reactivate those that had fallen away. |
| Subject: | Truth? The Mormon Church packs the biggest |
| Date: | Apr 06 20:02 |
| Author: | William Jamison |
| set of lies of all the churches. The Mormon Church supports the largest collection of apologists in Religiondum. |
| Subject: | In other words, he has just confessed to the world that members are leaving the church. |
| Date: | Apr 06 20:06 |
| Author: | Stray Mutt |
| You know it has to be a serious problem if he has to beg them publicly to come back. |
| Subject: | My thoughts exactly. |
| Date: | Apr 06 21:10 |
| Author: | Dagny |
| The fact he begrudgingly-with backhanded labels
brought this topic up in his first talk as profit is telling. He knows the vast number of people walking away is a problem and felt he needed to throw a bone at the problem. Unfortunately, the way he did it was insulting. Even if someone had a lobotomy and did decide to go back it is clear they still feel the need to demonize people who left. |
| Subject: | Welcome back?? |
| Date: | Apr 06 20:21 |
| Author: | AxelDC |
| "the less active, the offended, the
critical, the transgressor" They say this every year. When was the last time someone returned to the church based on this talk? It's really a way to pretend to reach out without doing anything to resolve the initial problems. Welcome the critical?? Right, if you shut up and pretend that you were wrong. "the transgressor"??? I'm sure he includes gays in that, but only if you go back in the closet, and again, SHUT UP! The offended?? How many ppl actually leave because they were offended?? I was offended: by the bigotry, hypocrisy and lies the church told. They pretend like someone insulted my shoes so I left. I left because they called me vile and "selfish" for being gay. I left because JS made the whole damned thing up. That's why I'm offended! Tommy, you seem like a nice boy, but you are either really naive or really stupid if you think one person will return to church because of this talk. |
| Subject: | I'll come back to the Church when.... |
| Date: | Apr 06 20:27 |
| Author: | openeyed_slackjawed |
| 1. My children and I can be sealed together WITHOUT a
husband/father figure. 2. My non-member family can witness weddings in the temple. 3. All members are invited to take part in the Second Anointing ordinance. 4. My temple recommend is not renewed based on amount of tithing payments. 5. True history is discussed. Joseph Smith's life is open for analysis, as well as all other leaders of the church. 6. Prophets are no longer considered the great communicator and intercessor between us and God. 7. Bishops remove all "notes" from personal files. 8. Forgiveness is something between God and the individual, and no longer requires Courts of Love to process. 9. My sons can wear whatever damn color shirt they want to and no tie. And my daughters can wear flip flops and have their ears double-pierced without condemnation or judgment. 10. I can have a meaningful relationship with the members that is NOT based on how well I follow the crowd and conform to the Mormon standard, or whether or not my husband is an active member, or how many children I have, or what my particular calling is within the ward. |
| Subject: | C'mon back--we wanna win this round!! |
| Date: | Apr 06 20:32 |
| Author: | Deenie, the dreaded single adult |
| After you're back, we can say that *WE* won! Then
we'll load you up with the callings that no one else will take, and we'll go
back to ignoring or insulting you, just like before... :^) |
| Subject: | This is the standard "return to the feast of fellowship" talk every church president gives... |
| Date: | Apr 06 21:28 |
| Author: | Gazelam |
| ...so far Monson has shown no originality or change in direction upon assuming his new role. His first pick for the Q12...same old, same old...his choice for young women's presidency...his daughter...his first talk...yawn... |
| Subject: | Wrong audience. |
| Date: | Apr 06 21:31 |
| Author: | Makurosu |
| If he was inviting former members to return, why was
he addressing current members? That seems like a pretty ineffective
strategy. I wouldn't even know that Mormon conference occurred this weekend
if I didn't read this board. In fact, it's probably best for the Church's
image that the general populace not hear that sort of talk, because it just
confirms in people's minds that the Church is a cult. You can leave the
Church, but the Church just can't leave you alone, you know? Well, it gives them a chance to feel superior, I guess. Good luck with that. I went to Disneyworld with my son yesterday. |
| Subject: | That's exactly what I was thinking... |
| Date: | Apr 06 21:52 |
| Author: | Gazelam |
| ...the talk is more for current members. Its a subtle way to say anyone who has left the church did so because they transgressed, are lazy, uncaring, hyper-critical, and easily offended. It reinforces to current members the belief that any other path outside the church is a dead end, and that those who have left are miserable wretches just waiting...hoping, one day, the prophet will let them back into the fold. |
| Subject: | I look at it as a thinly veiled attempt to threaten the current membership. |
| Date: | Apr 06 23:24 |
| Author: | ihidmyselfbecauseIwasnaked |
| By openly attacking the character of those who leave, Monson is telling the membership that their character will also be attacked should they ever decide to leave. |
| Subject: | Sorry, I wasn't on the list of people he invited back . . . . |
| Date: | Apr 06 21:31 |
| Author: | imaworkinonit |
| Batman wrote: >> President Thomas S. Monson said members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are ready to welcome "the less active, the offended, the critical, the transgressor" into fellowship. > Wow, they'll have quite an interesting crowd when all those easily offended whiners and sinners go back. ;-) But he didn't invite the true NON-believers, people who found out the dirt on early history and JS made-up scriputures, the freethinkers OR the feminists. Ah well . . . I didn't want to go back anyway. |
| Subject: | A good indication that the LDS church is hurting for "paying" members ... |
| Date: | Apr 06 22:00 |
| Author: | Skybolt |
| If baptisms in the first world nations were going
well, and more and more members were not resigning or becoming inactive
Monson would have never made such a pronouncement. The Morg knows that the real, net activity number has been flat for a while and has no prospects for increasing, again, in the first world nations where the money is. Both the bishop and stake president in this corner of Northern Virginia would rather crawl into a den of pissed off badgers than deal with me. |
| Subject: | The downside to this talk |
| Date: | Apr 06 22:03 |
| Author: | D.P. Gumby |
| is that we can now expect an increase in reactivation
efforts by The Corporation. Neighbors and family members are going to be
pressured to get the "lost sheep" back. I think there is no question it is about decreased tithing revenue because of slowing growth in North America. it is always about money. |
| Subject: | Was there an up side? |
| Date: | Apr 06 22:28 |
| Author: | Deenie, the dreaded single adult |
| Just checking... ;^) |
| Subject: | Ambassador of truth, my foot!... |
| Date: | Apr 06 23:11 |
| Author: | Tahoe Girl |
| Hinckley lied during TV interviews. I have too much
integrity to return to an organization that lies and withholds the truth. TG |
| Subject: | And my response... |
| Date: | Apr 07 00:13 |
| Author: | Michael |
| Tommy, I'll return to the LDS church when you admit that Joseph Smith was a fraud and the church he founded is a controlling cult. It took me 30 years to break away from the cult of Mormonism. Of course, when I do return it will be to pick up a refund for the $100,000 plus tithing you swindeled from me with the promise of making it to the highest degree of Celestial Glory in the afterlife. Then I'll dust off my feed on your carpet and walk away. Michael |
| Subject: | Re: Monson urges Exmos to Return (article in USA Today) |
| Date: | Apr 07 00:18 |
| Author: | sanity prevailed |
| I've been out of the LDS church for more than 20 years
but members of my family are still extremely active. I certainly HOPE that
none of them are going to work extra hard to bring me back to the fold. The best thing I did was tell one of my siblings that I didn't even believe that ANY scriptures were accurate and divine accounts. It made all other arguments mute points. As for: ---being offended, I'm not so petty. ---being critical, it should be every persons job to ask questions, for if we do not then we are operating as the ignorantly obedient. How can you wholeheartedly believe something for which you know nothing about? ---being a transgressor, aren't we all? I told a white lie to a telemarketer just this morning---oddly I feel no worries as to my salvation or a pull to return to the church as a result. |
| Subject: | why would anybody willingly go back to that church? |
| Date: | Apr 07 00:23 |
| Author: | Frevlerin |
| It is ridiculous to assume that people who escaped
would want to return to the oppressive organization that is the LDS church. Sorry, tommy boy, there is no way on earth i would return to the fold. There is absolutely no incentive whatsoever to listen to lies, be treated like crap, listen to more lies, give you my money, be treated like crap, oh yeah, and to listen to more lies. Thanks but NO THANKS!! That is the funniest invitation I have ever received. Please come back so we can shit on you some more! I am GLAD I am out!!!!! |
| Subject: | Monson's talk... what are YOU going to do? |
| Date: | Apr 06 23:37 |
| Author: | Tessa girl |
| SO, I just read Batman's post about Tommy urging, "the
less active, the offended, the critical, the transgressor" into fellowship.
My question to you is, obvously The Prez was speaking to the current
members, so what will you do *when* the members start "urging you back"?
Same old thing we've always done? I think we should put out a pamphlet or
literature or something when they come over to try and "love bomb" or
"fellowship" us; give it to 'em straight. I really liked what Batman wrote,
'Exmo Community Urges Mormon Leadership to Come Clean.' Let's print up a
bunch of those bad-boys, see what they think. We aren't less active, offended, critical (maybe critical THINKERS) or transgressors. We are astute intellectuals, feminists, rationalist, conscious free-thinkers who choose ourselves what to do with OUR lives. And we are better for it. |
| Subject: | ... what are YOU going to do? |
| Date: | Apr 07 00:16 |
| Author: | Lori at 45 |
| I 'll probably continue attending the Lutheran church.
It's 12 years today that I became a member. I can be less active. I missed church today because I had a lot of other things happening. The world did not stop. I'll probably be back next week or the week after next. If I am offended, I can speak my mind and expect my concerns to be considered legitimate. No one will go "oooh, she was offended" and have that be more important than why. My concerns might even be acted upon! No one minds if I am critical of the pastor or other church leaders. See offended paragraph above. I am free to leave if I want. They might miss me, but I won't be hassled. And everyone on this planet is a transgressor! How come the mormons so often forget that they are also? Lori |
| Subject: | Anyone else find it irritation that Monson's wants us back? |
| Date: | Apr 06 15:09 |
| Author: | we want truth |
| He doesn't really want us back, at least, the current
"us" as we are now. He wants us to go back before we discovered the truth.
Well, he is not just asking us to go back, but rather go backwards. He wants
us to un-partake of the red pill. He wants us to accept smaller truths. He
wants the former tithe-paying-rule-abiding-kept-our-mouths-shut- patsies we used to be. He doesn't want the people we've become. He wants the people we used to be. Even the categories that put us in - "the less active, the offended, the critical, the transgressor" - are offensive. Mr. Monson, judging by this first speech, you've got a lot to learn about former mormons and the reasons why we left. |
| Subject: | I know what he REALLY wants... |
| Date: | Apr 06 15:13 |
| Author: | JBug |
| The LDS cult wants our MONEY and our unquestioning obedience. |
| Subject: | If there is really anyone from the church monitoring this board, |
| Date: | Apr 06 15:16 |
| Author: | Heresy |
| they obviously forgot to fill him in on what they observed. |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone else find it irritation that Monson's wants us back? |
| Date: | Apr 06 15:22 |
| Author: | forestpal |
| I heard that part of his speech, and it made my skin
crawl. He was sweelty standing there, accusing US for being the problem, and not the church. We left because we learned the truth the church is not true, and there is no "authority" from God. Monsoon let it be known on National television that he was soooo forgiving and accepting of the less active, offended, critical, transgressors, and we are "welcome back." AS IF we were just waiting outside, unhappy, alone, poor, wayward, addicted--too frightened and downcast, struggling in the outside world that Monson described as so awful--too far gone to realize we will be welcomed back into the fold. Hello. The world is a pretty happy, friendly place out here. We're doing great now that we are free of the cult. Welcome? TSCC is still stalking and harrassing most of us, to regain control of our our money and time. What a bunch of phony baloney. |
| Subject: | I'm not watching, so I don't know what he said |
| Date: | Apr 06 15:27 |
| Author: | síóg |
| I just know what's posted here. But based on that, it
seems he's not really talking to us. He's talking to our TBM families. He's
reinforcing for them what they already believe or want to believe about us. What are the bets that many here will be deluged with reports or transcripts or quotes from this talk? |
| Subject: | How right you are . . . . |
| Date: | Apr 06 15:56 |
| Author: | imaworkinonit |
| síóg wrote: > I just know what's posted here. But based on that, it seems he's not really talking to us. He's talking to our TBM families. He's reinforcing for them what they already believe or want to believe about us. I didn't watch it either. I had better things to do. And YES, it's a nice way to discredit those who leave while appearing to be offering an olive branch. |
| Subject: | also, don't you think.... |
| Date: | Apr 06 17:53 |
| Author: | rhonda |
| that he said those things to put fear into those who have not made the jump and are thinking about it? that they would be labeled "transgressors" if they go? Could be... |
| Subject: | "the less active, the offended, the critical, the transgressor" |
| Date: | Apr 06 15:31 |
| Author: | exProdigal |
| that bugged me too. he left out, "those who through reason and research have discovered that the church is not true," |
| Subject: | Probably the most disturbing part of this for me |
| Date: | Apr 06 15:32 |
| Author: | pwsoldier |
| is that I'll probably be seeing this talk, in its entirety, in an email from my TBM mother in the not-too-distant future. |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone else find it irritation that Monson's wants us back? |
| Date: | Apr 06 15:39 |
| Author: | Tom Donofrio |
| He has made the audacious assumption that those
"lesser" persons were listening in the first place. There's not much he can do about the fact that the majority were off doing something more productive..... Those poor souls that had to endure it were probably held hostage by their extended family members. Monson's words probably gave more hope to the believers than it did for the "sinners" sitting next to them. Don't worry, it's a losing battle and he knows it. But, he has to make the effort. I'm sure he is swamped with letters pleading for him to "do something" about the increased number of wayward saints. That was the best he could do........ |
| Subject: | that wasn't for "us" |
| Date: | Apr 06 16:12 |
| Author: | too busy to log in |
| it was for the families of "us." |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone else find it irritation that Monson's wants us back? |
| Date: | Apr 06 16:06 |
| Author: | anon |
| what exactly does it mean to be "offended?" I never
really understood that term by church memebers, and why in it's real
definition it isn't ok to leave TSCC if you are offended that there is a
known sexual predator in my old ward. Of course this person is only known by leadership and not the lowly members. Oh well, I know they don't really want 'us' back, but rather our dollars. |
| Subject: | Definition of "offended" |
| Date: | Apr 06 16:36 |
| Author: | Baura |
| People leave the Church for three reasons: (1) They want to sin (2) They are lazy (3) They were offended. To be offended means that you knowingly throw away God's only True and Living Church on the face of the earth because of some petty social slight that some member did. This is an indication of how arrogant and self-centered you are. The advantage to TBMs of this way of thinking is that, in the first place, they are superior to you. You have a big head and a thin skin and a terrible sense of priorities. In the second place it makes them think that once you've cooled off you will see the error of your ways and be dying to come back. All that is needed is for them to say "come on back, we want you" and you will gladly turn your whole being over to them. |
| Subject: | Simple. New money has to come from somewhere....... |
| Date: | Apr 06 16:22 |
| Author: | dja |
| Market opportunity. |
| Subject: | I don't blame young Tommy a bit. After all ... |
| Date: | Apr 06 16:28 |
| Author: | Timothy |
| ... would you want to be the profit-in-charge when the
ship finally goes down? Ah, what an uncomfortable cushion on the couch of history! Timothy |
| Subject: | Thanks, but no thanks... |
| Date: | Apr 06 17:36 |
| Author: | SinisterMinister |
| If you want to better understand the likelihood of my ever returning to the Morg, try a little experiment. Next time you are moved by the spirit to preach to ex-Mormons, take a tube of toothpaste with you to the pulpit. Squeeze the entire contents of the tube onto the pulpit. Then use your bare hands to put the toothpaste back into the tube. The success you have with that effort is about the same as the chance of me returning to your [expletive-deleted] church. That would be zero. |
| Subject: | It was always a problem with me...not them |
| Date: | Apr 06 17:40 |
| Author: | heathcliffrand |
| It just reminds me of why I left in the first place. I was always the part of the equation that wasn't working, rather than the church was what needed to be fixed. The church and I always had a one-way romance. I did all the loving, all the changing...and it just kept telling me I wasn't good enough. So much nonsense. |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone else find it irritation that Monson's wants us back? |
| Date: | Apr 06 17:45 |
| Author: | shoehorn |
| Mormons attempt to read things into some of our anger. They psychoanalyze ex-Mormons' anger and run it through their colored glasses thinking. They see potential re-converts in ex-Mormons with their inane reasoning. My guess is that trying to convert one of us would do double as it would hypothetically remove a negative "testimony" of their church while recruiting a positive one. Each one of us that has a true story to tell of church abuses is a target to be silenced and assassination may not be the best way until the gang gets more power (said in jest). Re-assimilate back into the "borg". |
| Subject: | I agree...We're a double-win. |
| Date: | Apr 06 17:53 |
| Author: | heathcliffrand |
| It's true. Not only is it good for the math (One less dissenter, one more member), but it's also good for morale. To have one of us, who have plenty of reasons to stay out of the church, come back would be more proof to them that the church is true. They love Prodigal Son stories. |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone else find it irritation that Monson's wants us back? |
| Date: | Apr 06 17:54 |
| Author: | JackDaniels Mormon |
| Don't forget that running the church is basically like
running a major corporation. I'm a salesman for a restaurant distributor, we spend a lot of time figuring out ways to get back lost business Of course getting your brisket from someone else because I'm 10 cents a pound too high isn't quite the same as leaving a church because it's permanently irreversibly damaged you psychologically. But that's not how they see it. No, they know you just left because someone at church said something mean to you and you decided you like whores and methamphetamines. But they're willing to forgive you for all that (but hurry fast because this offer won't last forever!) as long as you come back and write your annual tithing check. |
| Subject: | "the less active, the offended, the critical, the transgressor" |
| Date: | Apr 06 17:57 |
| Author: | winter |
| "the less active" Oh, great. He wants us to go back to drowning in mindless busywork. Done for free. Other church's pay their full-time staff, instead of dragging parents away from their children for years on end. "the offended" He wants us to smiling accept being abused, insulted, and in general being taken advantage of. "the critical" He wants us to smilingly accept the mediocre drivel that oozes from the literary orifice known as the Correlation Committee. And ignore science, JS lies, and the pathology of polygamy. "the transgressor" He wants us to go back to believing that the great moral issues of our day are masturbation, the internet, coffee, alcohol, and porn. Good luck with that, Tommy. winter |
| Subject: | Re: "the less active, the offended, the critical, the transgressor" |
| Date: | Apr 06 18:03 |
| Author: | bona dea |
| He wouldn't want me. I ask too many question, read and think too much, refuse to do what I am told and won't go to long, noisy, boring meetings. |
| Subject: | Ya know what would be really cool? |
| Date: | Apr 06 18:23 |
| Author: | 100%garmie-free |
| If we all took Tommy up on this. We all picked one
Sunday, and went back en masse, for Sunday meetings. Converge on Mormon
chapels around the globe, all exmos, and just raise our hands, question,
critique and contest everything being said and done, both in Sacrament, SS
and P & RS. That would be empowering! If anyone criticizes us for attending, we can claim that we are merely "following the prophet!" |
| Subject: | Re: Ya know what would be really cool? |
| Date: | Apr 06 19:01 |
| Author: | bona dea |
| We should be sure to wear casual or sloppy clothes, multiple piercings, show our tats and all men should have long hair and beards. I'll bet Monson wouldn't reissue that invite. |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone else find it irritation that Monson's wants us back? |
| Date: | Apr 06 18:30 |
| Author: | pepper |
| What you found is not truth.......It's simply old wine in new bottles, repackaged as truth. |
| Subject: | Oh he knows why people leave all right. The speech was just a schpiel for TBMs. |
| Date: | Apr 06 18:35 |
| Author: | nonplussed |
| >Mr. Monson, judging by this first speech, you've
got a lot to learn about former mormons and the reasons why we left. As usual, the mormon leaders were preaching to the choir. I doubt they care about people who have left. Heck, they don't even do anything factual to retain the true believers. |
| Subject: | Having acknowledged two years ago that the church is "hemorrhaging", Monson's 'invitation' was... |
| Date: | Apr 06 19:09 |
| Author: | FreeAtLast |
| ...an attempt to stop the flow. His words will have
little, if any, effect. LDS author and retired CES Director Grant Palmer said in a May 2006 interview that he had it on good authority that then-First Pres. member Monson acknowledged that the church is "hemorrhaging". The interview is online on the Mormon Stories dot org website (see the May 2006 link on the right side of the homepage). Palmer said that Greg Dodge had to increase the staff five-fold to keep up with the flood of resignation letters. The rolling stone rolls forth! At age 80, Monson is caught between a rock and a hard place. The foundational teachings of the church have been thoroughly discredited in the past 10+ years. Science has proven that the Book of Mormon, the 'keystone' of the LDS religion and "most correct of any book on earth" (quoting JS) is not true/historical. Furthermore, countless people, including many Latter-day Saints, have learned about skeletons in the closet of JS such as his polygamous marriages to Mormon women who were already married and teenage girls as young as 14 (young enough to be his daughters). In every respect, Mormon apologetics have failed to provide explanations relative to foundational church teachings that are able to withstand scrutiny. Monson finds himself in the position of leading a religious-corporate empire with a LONG history of deceiving people and abusing their trust. Until that core rot is fully addressed and amends made (as best possible), the LDS Church will continue to lose tens of thousands of members each year. |
| Subject: | Actually, he's not even talking to us... |
| Date: | Apr 06 20:30 |
| Author: | moth |
| He's talking to the active. He's saying "look what will happen to you if you stray." It's like when people bear testimony to you. They do it for themselves, not you. It make them feel good and important, "I testified to an apostate today." Same thing going on here. |
| Subject: | Letter to my brother responding to his request for my thoughts on Monson Conference talk. |
| Date: | Apr 06 16:42 |
| Author: | Mason |
| Dear [Brother], You asked me for my thoughts on the talk President Monson just gave in Conference, where he appealed for the less active, those offended, the critics, and the transgressors to come back. I believe he is sincere in his invitation. Yet, what hits me is his reference to someone like me as a “casualty”. He tells me the road I am on “leads to a dead end”. Even if he was right, his labels are destructive. He says that I am away from the church because I am offended or a transgressor, and uses adjectives like inactive, indifferent, careless, selfish, and sinful. To describe the motives of people like me is presumptuous. Inactive? Let me be clear, I choose not to be part of the church on a permanent basis. Don’t call me inactive. I am more active, alive, and happy than I ever was in the church. He labels me. Offended? Don’t allocate me to self-serving categories. I did not leave because I was offended. While much of what the church teaches is good, some things are offensive to me. Equally, it is offensive that some teachings I see as crucial are always left out. I was never offended by anyone and have tremendous respect for the vast majority of Mormons I know. He insults me. Transgressor? Sinful? How does he presume to judge me for making life choices different than his? By treating me as not “worthy” he injures the relationships I have with my believing son, brothers, and father. He injures my relationships. How dare anyone condemn with such self-righteousness? What arrogance makes him presume I trespass the good because my life choices are different than his? He maligns me. Critic? If by that (almost assuredly) he means "one given to harsh or captious judgment", he knows nothing about me. If by that (doubtful) he means one who tries to "express a reasoned opinion on any matter especially involving a judgment of its value, truth, righteousness, beauty, or technique" or one who "engages in analysis, evaluation, or appreciation", he would be absolutely correct. Indifferent? That was never the case when I gave my commitment to service through the church organization for many years. It is disgraceful that he would assume I have changed. By my free agency I have reallocated my time, talents, resources, brain and heart. He assumes that makes me apathetic, casual, disinterested, nonchalant, or unconcerned. He offends me. Careless? He presumes because I don’t follow church leaders, I have become casual, lacking in caution, and mindless. Since leaving the church I am as sensitive, aware, conscientious, mindful, caring, passionate, concerned, and interested as I ever was. He offends me again. You know I look for the good in what the church does. Today, President Monson admonishes church members to show kindness and respect for those whose beliefs are different than theirs, yet his own labels and presumptions fail to show me basic respect. The church presents itself as the guardian of all that is true, honest, just, pure, lovely, of good report, virtuous, and praiseworthy. Honestly, as I watched the talk, I could only celebrate the fact that I decide for myself what is true and good. Yours sincerely, Mason |
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