Summary: Mitt Romney recently claimed that his father marched with Martin Luther King. It turns out it never happened. This is not the first exaggeration of Mitt Romney's claim of supporting the civil rights movement. Mitt Romney claimed, in a newspaper article in 1978, both he and his father marched with Martin Luther King.
Romney recently denied a basic Mormon doctrine and historical event that is essential to the foundation of Mormonism. He stated the last time God spoke to a man directly was to Moses. He did this to appeal to the Evangelicals. Mormons understand this tactic as "milk before meat". It is not lying, in their minds, if such misrepresentation improves the appearance of the Mormon church to the outsider. Mitt Romney is demonstrating a common trait of Mormon apologists. They will exaggerate or make wild claims without substantiation. When caught on these statements, they will comment that the misunderstanding was due to how the information should of been interpreted. In the case of marching with Martin Luther King, we should understand that he was speaking figuratively.
| Subject: | Romney was speaking figuratively, not literally, on MLK. |
| Date: | Dec 20, 2007 |
| Author: | Darquestar |
| That's right folks, when Mitt said he saw his father
George marching with Martin Luther King it turns out he didn't actually mean
he literally saw his father George marching with Martin Luther King. ********************************************************* On Wednesday, Romney's campaign said his recollections of watching his father, an ardent civil rights supporter, march with King were meant to be figurative. "He was speaking figuratively, not literally," Eric Fehrnstrom, spokesman for the Romney campaign, said of the candidate. ********************************************************** http://www.wzzm13.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=85276 Darque |
| Subject: | Romney and MLK - the hole gets deeper |
| Date: | Dec 21 17:13 |
| Author: | Blank |
| Subject: | Update: What's the definition of together? |
| Date: | Dec 20, 2007 |
| Author: | Blank |
|
http://thephoenix.com/article_ektid53200.aspx "UPDATE: ROMNEY CAMPAIGN SAYS “TOGETHER” MAY MEAN DIFFERENT CITIES, DIFFERENT DAYS A spokesperson for Mitt Romney now tells the Phoenix that George W. Romney and Martin Luther King Jr. marched together in June, 1963 -- although possibly not on the same day or in the same city. " Gee, why would anyone think that if someone said they marched together that they would mean at the same time in the same city? The nerve of some people! ;) Whether he did or did not though does it matter? First, we are talking about his father not Mitt. Second, isn't it hypocritical to protest for civil rights when your own church discriminates? Finally, why does marching with MLK give you a pass. It reminds me of the scandal over "Dog" the Bounty Hunter. I remember him saying how he thought because of his associations with various black people and doing various work that it was ok for him to use the word n*****. So I guess Romney thinks that because his dad marched around a few times for civil rights that it makes it ok to tell black people that they are not worthy to be married eternally or be priests and will be white people's servants in the CK. Yeah, right. |
| Subject: | When Joseph Smith saw God he was speaking figuratively, not literally, too I take it. |
| Subject: | Yeah... just like... |
| Date: | Dec 20 12:54 |
| Author: | Pete Dunn |
| Yeah... just like those "witnesses" saw the gold plates. Figuratively not literally. |
| Subject: | Yes I Did. YOu did not... here is more... |
| Date: | Dec 20 17:42 |
| Author: | FoA |
| "He was speaking figuratively, not literally," Eric
Fehrnstrom, spokesman for the Romney campaign, said of the candidate. The campaign was responding to questions raised by the Free Press and other media after a Boston publication challenged the accuracy of Mitt Romney's account. In a major speech on faith and politics earlier this month in Texas, Mitt Romney said: "I saw my father march with Martin Luther King." He made a similar statement Sunday during an appearance on NBC's "Meet the Press." He said, "You can see what I believed and what my family believed by looking at our lives. My dad marched with Martin Luther King. My mom was a tireless crusader for civil rights."... Free Press archives, however, showed no record of King marching in Grosse Pointe in 1963 or of then-Gov. Romney taking part in King's historic march down Woodward Avenue in June of that year. George Romney told the Free Press at the time that he didn't take part because it was on a Sunday and he avoided public appearances on the Sabbath because of his religion.... |
| Subject: | From the Detroit Free Press as quoted in the above link |
| Date: | Dec 20 13:08 |
| Author: | Tired of Wor [George Romney did march on a different day and not with MLK and in an affluent area] |
| "Detroit Free Press: "With Gov. Romney a surprise
arrival and marching in the front row, more than 500 Negroes and whites
staged a peaceful antidiscrimination parade up Grosse Pointe's Kercheval
Avenue Saturday. … 'the elimination of human inequalities and injustices is
our urgent and critical domestic problem,' the governor said. … [Detroit
NAACP President Edward M.] Turner told reporters, 'I think it is very
significant that Governor Romney is here. We are very surprised.' Romney
said, 'If they want me to lead the parade, I'll be glad to.'" ("Romney Joins
Protest March Of 500 In Grosse Pointe," Detroit Free Press, 6/29/63") Even when I was a kid, Romney was known for his support of civil rights. I remember my Barry Goldwater supporting Republican Dad criticizing Romney about it. |
| Subject: | No dice |
| Date: | Dec 20 13:13 |
| Author: | Blank |
| Mail Address: |
| Even the author of the article said there is no direct proof other than the citation from the book which others have cast doubts on that Romney literally marched with MLK. Your quote does not say MLK was present. That G. Romney participated in civil rights marches is not in dispute. Besides what does it matter? Mitt is not George. And just because his father was involved in the civil rights movement does it make ok that the Mormon Church was itself discriminating against black people and many of its leaders made outrageous statements? If Mitt is so for civil rights why could he not bring himself to say it was wrong of the Mormon Church to treat blacks the way it did on Meet the Press? THAT is the real issue. |
| Subject: | Blank's right - "Marches with" means in the same march nt |
| Subject: | The problem stems from the fact |
| Date: | Dec 20 17:06 |
| Author: | 3X |
| that no one in the Romney clan has ever served in the military. Anyone who has acquires a visceral-level understanding of both the verb and the noun "march" - and are not prone to "imaginative" redefinitions of same. |
| Subject: | Mitt saw Daddy and Martin marching together *with his SPIRITUAL eyes*. |
| Date: | Dec 20 17:13 |
| Author: | Jenny |
| It's that easy to explain, people. His "people" say he
meant the comment "figuratively." NOW they tell us! What Mitt meant was that he saw them marching together with his spiritual eyes. Just like all the Gold Plates witnesses eventually explained. They didn't witness the plates with their earthly eyes. oh, no. That would be simply mundane. ANYONE could do that. No, they spoke figuratively and said they saw them with the spiritual eyes. Mitt Romney: taking yet another page out of mormon's book of obfuscation. It's not about substance, it's about how good you look. And doesn't he look all nice and presidential? I think so. Let's see, he's an idiot. And, oh wait, he's a liar. Perfect. He's Electable! Or at least the Supremes might think he's Appointable. |
| Subject: | It doesn't matter: Mitt is NOT the kind of person—or politician—his father was. |
| Date: | Dec 20 17:33 |
| Author: | flattopSF |
| The Republican party has changed vastly in its real
ideals and goals since George Romney ran for the presidential nomination in
1968, and Mitt is a reflection of those changes. Put simply, Mitt Romney is a fence-sitter, a liar and a hypocrite both in political AND religious terms. |
| Subject: | Romney Did NOT March With King -- Period! |
| Date: | Dec 20 19:05 |
| Author: | Charles Wilson |
| George Romney did walk in some civil rights rallies.
He had a good record on that issue. But he did NOT march with King, and his
son, the Mittsterflopper, did not "see" him do so, unless perhaps he "saw"
it with the aid of his Mormon seer-stones. From the Detroit Free Press: "Free Press archives, however, showed no record of King marching in Grosse Pointe in 1963 or of then-Gov. Romney taking part in King's historic march down Woodward Avenue in June of that year. "George Romney told the Free Press at the time that he didn't take part because it was on a Sunday and he avoided public appearances on the Sabbath because of his religion. Romney did participate in a civil rights march protesting housing bias in Grosse Pointe just six days after the King march. According to the Free Press account, however, King was not there." |
| Subject: | Um, but did George walk with Martin where Mitt says he did and where Mitt says he saw him do so? |
| Date: | Dec 20 19:16 |
| Author: | steve benson |
| Subject: Mitt Romney: OK, I talked the talk but I
never did actually see my dad walk the walk with Dr. King Date: Dec 20 18:57 Author: steve benson Mail Address: "'WAS IT ALL A DREAM? EXCLUSIVE: Mitt Romney claims that his father marched with MLK, but the record says otherwise' "By DAVID S. BERNSTEIN [for 'The Phoenix'] "In the most-watched speech of his political career, speaking on 'Faith in America' at College Station, Texas, earlier this month, Mitt Romney evoked the strongest of all symbolic claims to civil-rights credentials: 'I saw my father march with Martin Luther King.' "He has repeated the claim several times recently, most prominently to Tim Russert on Meet the Press . But, while the late George W. Romney, a four-term governor of Michigan, can lay claim to a strong record on civil rights, the Phoenix can find no evidence that the senior Romney actually marched with King, nor anything in the public record suggesting that he ever claimed to do so. Nor did Mitt Romney ever previously claim that this took place, until long after his father passed away in 1995 — not even when defending accusations of the Mormon church’s discriminatory past during his 1994 Senate campaign...." "And, Mitt Romney would not have known about the event, let alone had a chance to 'see' it. He was at that time in the middle of his two-year mission for the Mormon church in Le Havre, France. By his own description and others’, he was cut off from virtually all contact with his family; and at the time, King’s Grosse Pointe appearance was no more than local news...." http://thephoenix.com/article_ektid53200.aspx |
| Subject: | Romney, like the BOM witnesses, "saw" his Dad marching... |
| Date: | Dec 20 19:57 |
| Author: | Raymond |
| ...with MLK in the "figurative" sense: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/20/528873.aspx A defensive Romney was peppered with questions today on exactly what he meant when he said -- most recently on Meet the Press -- that he "saw" his father march with Martin Luther King Jr. Recent articles have indicated that his father, the late Michigan Gov. George Romney, didn't march with the civil-rights leader. Admitting that he didn't see the march with his own eyes, he said, "I 'saw' him in the figurative sense." "The reference of seeing my father lead in civil rights," he said, "and seeing my father march with Martin Luther King is in the sense of this figurative awareness of and recognition of his leadership." He goes on to give a dictionary definition of "saw"... |
| Subject: | Mitt is confused. He thinks he's in a fast & testimony meeting... |
| Date: | Dec 21 20:23 |
| Author: | Norfolk |
| ...where you can say anything you want, as long as
it's faith promoting drivel, and nobody will ask questions. "I know with every fiber of my bean that my father and Martin Luther King were like brothers." |
| Subject: | Chris Matthews ripped into the Romney campaign |
| Date: | Dec 21 19:28 |
| Author: | 3X |
| On this evenings "Hard Ball" (MSNBC), Chris Matthews
ripped into Kevin Madden, national press secretary for the Romney campaign,
on the bogus "marched with MLK" issue, the "I'm a life-long hunter"
statement, the phony "NRA endorsement", etc. It was brutal - and the only response from Madden were weasel-words about what "saw" means. |
| Subject: | What an incredibly Mormon thing to do... |
| Date: | Dec 21 19:46 |
| Author: | Maturin |
| Claim something they believe (or at least have convinced themselves to believe), and then when it's pointed out that the claim is inaccurate, to waffle around trying to explain what he "meant" to say, pull out a dictionary (or other resource) to show how he was technically right anyway, and how common this other meaning of a word is. How about if we just call it "playing loose with the truth?" |
| Subject: | Lying is a Revered Mormon Tradition |
| Date: | Dec 21 19:58 |
| Author: | Alien |
| Mitt is merely following the "faith of his fathers"
when he lies about anything and everything. For a great article on "lying
for the Lord," see Ken Clark's article at
http://www.mormonthink.com/lying.htm This article at the Mormonthink website gathers together in one place over 100 documented official Mormon Church lies. It is well within the tradition of Romney's faith to lie through his teeth to gain any kind of perceived benefit to his faith such as the enhanced reputation of a high office for a temple-sworn High Priest. |
| Subject: | Mitt is conditioned to tell and believe all |
| Date: | Dec 21 20:23 |
| Author: | My2Cents |
| FPR's. Faith Promoting Rumors. LDS Sacrament meeting
is chock full of FPR's that people make up to convince themselves that the
church is still true. No one ever checks the source of any FPR in Sacrament
meeting, that would be blasphemy. Mitt is simply doing what he was taught to do over 50 some-odd years of LDS truth-twisting, and he sees nothing wrong with it, because the end justifies the means. The problem is that the rest of the country, and especially the media, aren't so quick to believe everything a candidate says, and checks sources. Mitt will be in more hot water before the end because of his LDS mindset. |
| Subject: | Never let the truth get in the way of a good story |
| Date: | Dec 21 20:10 |
| Author: | Taddlywog |
| Mail Address: |
| I am quoting mormon doctrine right? I heard this over the pulpit once. |
| Subject: | On the eve of Joseph Smith's birthday [Dec. 23], Mitt Romney denies Joseph Smith's grove meeting with God |
| Date: | Dec 21 20:47 |
| Author: | steve benson |
| Mail Address: |
| In his pathological efforts to be everything to
everybody--but especially to evangelical Christians whom he really needs in
Iowa--Brother Romney has now (let the Mormon believers hope he did so
unintentionally) rejected Joseph Smith and the First Vision. Or did Romney do this deliberately, in another fumbled attempt to misrepresent his Mormon religion for personal political gain? Read it and weep, oh ye Mormons of Romney faith: ". . . and Mitt's in more trouble with Boston TV interview faith comments By Thomas Burr The Salt Lake Tribune " WASHINGTON - Presidential candidate Mitt Romney says in a videotaped interview that he doesn't know that God has spoken to anyone since the time of Moses. "The comment is in stark conflict to his Mormon faith that believes God spoke to founder Joseph Smith and other church prophets subsequently. "In the interview with Boston's WCVB, a reporter asks Romney several questions about his faith in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, including how his faith would impact him if elected. "'Should God speak to you, and ask you to do something that might be in conflict with your duties as president, or should He speak to your prophet who would speak to you, how would you make that decision, how would you handle that?' reporter Natalie Jacobsen asks. "Romney laughs and then replies, 'Well, I don't recall God speaking to me. I, I don't recall God speaking to anyone since, uh, Moses and the [burning] bush, or perhaps some others, but, but I don't have that frequent of communication.' . . . "Mormons believe in modern revelation and that the church's prophet communicates with God, a belief that puts it at odds with other mainstream Christian faiths. The faith founded by Smith, who said he had spoken to God and that an angel led him to brass plates that became the Book of Mormon. "Asked about Romney's comment, campaign spokesman Kevin Madden said Romney has said previously said he will not distance himself from his faith and pointed to a passage in a speech Romney gave earlier this month addressing his religion. "'Let me assure you that no authorities of my church, or of any other church for that matter, will ever exert influence on presidential decisions,' Romney said during the speech in College Station, Texas. "'Their authority is theirs, within the province of church affairs, and it ends where the affairs of the nation begin.' "Madden did not address whether Romney believes in the Mormon tenet that God communicates with the church's prophet, currently Gordon. B Hinckley." http://www.sltrib.com/ci_7780619 |
| Subject: | Operative word here is "recall." Just a momentary lapse. |
| Date: | Dec 21 23:44 |
| Author: | Alien |
| Move on folks. There is nothing to see here. Mitt
Romney's exact words, as quoted in the article were: "I don't RECALL God speaking to anyone since, uh, Moses and the [burning] bush, or PERHAPS SOME OTHERS, . . ." So you see, Mitt Romney did not DENY Joseph Smith's account of his private conversation with GOD himself and his son JESUS CHRIST; he merely forgot about it momentarily. He WAS able to remember the Moses business with the Burning Bush, and he DID say that there MAY have been "some others" who received personal visitations from GOD, but WHATEVER! Blah Blah Blah. It is all a blur to Romney. After all, Romney is struggling to remember if he actually marched with Martin Luther King in the flesh or in the spirit only. How can he be expected to recall in an instant whether someone actually "SAW" God? What does the word "saw" mean anyway? |
| Subject: | Re: On the eve of Joseph Smith's birthday [Dec. 23], Mitt Romney denies Joseph Smith's grove meeting with God |
| Date: | Dec 21 23:49 |
| Author: | No Moniker |
| Maybe JS only heard God with his "spiritual" ears? |
| Subject: | To all good endowed Mormons the church must come FIRST in ALL things. |
| Date: | Dec 22 00:27 |
| Author: | No More Dancing |
| Technically speaking there can't even be a conflict of
interest simply because there can't be a conflict period - it's God's WILL
or NOTHING! The decision isn't even there to be made. Obedience is the first
law of heaven and you always follow the Prophet. That's that and Romney knows it! America needs to know it too. To go against your Mormon Temple oaths is to be in "Satan's power". Therefore, by covenant, all your power belongs to the church if it should ever ask for it through God's one and only Prophet on earth. The church is as extreme as it gets. All other church's are an "abomination" to God (First Vision story). Men are not just to be saved, but are to become Gods. You can't just "believe", you must "know" the "truth" by personal revelation. You obey the leaders in all things whatsoever they ask of you. |
| Subject: | Romney must be Jewish because he just denied the New Testament too. |
| Date: | Dec 22 08:47 |
| Author: | Walsingham |
| If Moses and his flammable bush was the last instance
that Romney is aware of, I guess all that stuff in the New Testament is just
a big huge pile of nothing in Romney's mind. Frankly, I think the guy's an agnostic. He's just another self-serving politician who's been playing the religious people for fools. The problem for Romney is that his natural base of deluded and devout devotees have always been Mormons. It's worked okay for him at the local level, but it's turning out to be inconvenient at the national level. I bet that secretly he does wish that he had been born a Southern Baptist, or an Episcopalian or Jewish. Anything would be better than being Mormon right now. At the end of the day, though, smart people should wake up and smell the coffee, the postum or whatever and realize that this guy is not a true-believing Mormon any more than Bill Clinton was a true-believing Baptist or George Bush is just a country boy rancher. He's a rich, famous and powerful guy who simply wants to be richer, more famous and more powerful. |
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