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Subject:	Elder Lynn A. Mickelsen said the church is not growing and Hinckley is chewing people out because of it.
Date:	Nov 12, 2006
Author:	Rubicon (Hinckley is the current Mormon prophet – as of Jan 2007)

This summer (2006) Lynn A. Mickelsen visited my parent’s ward. He was visiting a friend of his and came to church not in an official visit, but as a visitor. He of course sat on the stand and volunteered to do a G&A session during Sunday school.

Elder Mickelsen was one of the most laid back General Authorities I have ever met in the church. He was a very likable guy. He was also halfway honest and said things I have never ever heard a top church leader say.

Elder Mickelsen said the main job of a Seventy is to regulate the church. He went into some examples of how the church in different areas gets off track and how keeping it in line is a constant struggle. He said one ward in California had the Aronic Priesthood wear special uniforms to pass the sacrament. How another ward signaled the sacrament was done by playing a little ditty on the organ.

He said the people and leaders in the church are well meaning but some get carried away. He gave the example of stake patriarchs going to far in the blessings like telling the recipient they will be a General Authority in the future. He said we all can get too carried away trying to do a good thing to where we are no longer in harmony with the lord.

He also told the story of how some of his colleagues in Salt Lake looked real depressed one day. It turns out they just came from a meeting where Gordon B. Hinckley chewed everyone out for the church's low growth numbers. He said right now the church loses almost as many members as it brings in. He said the biggest growth factor was having babies in the church.

He also said the second coming wasn't going to be anytime soon. There's too much work to be done.

Most of the sheep in Sunday School said they really felt the spirit and blah blah blah. What brainwashed fools! Here we had a GA sayings the church is losing members like a sieve, you partriarch may not be inspired, and all the last days hype of the 1980's is gone. Jesus ain't coming anytime some because Mormonism hasn't conquered the earth yet.

These people still worshipped the dude because he was a GA and basked in their group think worship. The guy could have said anything and they still would have lapped it up like a thirsty kitten.

SCARY! I had more respect for Elder Mickelsen than the members of the ward. He at least was laying it down halfway truthfully. Hope he doesn't get in trouble if Gordo reads this. LOL!

Subject:	Mickelsen is a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy
Date:	Nov 12 04:56
Author:	Rubicon

Mickelsen was at the church administration block when other GA said President Hinckley "Took them to the Woodshed". General Authorities serve on different committees and don't all attend the same meetings.

Mickelsen said the last time he personally got to talk with president Hinckley was at the birthday party.

It may seem strange, but I'm just reporting what the guy told us. Most GA's keep such things a secret or try to. What blew me away more than anything was how he said stake patriarchs may not always be inspired. It was weird.

Subject:	Hinckley is of course missing the real reason the church growth is down.
Date:	Nov 12 05:14
Author:	Oldtimer

Truth is easy to defend.

Subject:	Yeah, but truth isn't what it's about. It's about maintaining your powerbase.
Date:	Nov 12 05:30
Author:	Rubicon

My whole life I thought GA's sacrificed to be GA's. Now I realize many rich people would pay a lot of money to have the power over people GA's have. These guys might not be the richest people in the world but they are unquestioned spokes people for God and celebrities to millions. They are egomaniacs.

Gordon B. Hinckley used to hide it with well rehearsed fake humility but as he's gotten older you see the ego. Getting old is like getting drunk. They can't hide their true selves as much.

Subject:	In that case ..... I'll be praying for GBH
Date:	Nov 12 06:31
Author:	alex71va

I'll be praying that GBH still remains physically healthy enough to keep on truckin' for another few years while his mental powers to hide his ego continue to fade.

Perhaps it won't be long until the COB gets renamed to be the Gordon B. Hinckley Church Office Building. All of the meetinghouses will be required to have big 5' statues of GBH on the podium. His birthday, wedding anniversary, late wife's birthday and anniversary of ascending to the throne of Mormonism will become church holidays with each Ward having a special Sacrament meeting program prepared for each of these holidays. The church will start spending oodles of dough on tv commercials commemorating how wonderful GBH is. And this brand new mall complex of the church's could surely be named for him.

Thinking of that mall and the penthouses planned for the top floors .... I wonder if the Big 15 Brethren have reserved those units to be for their personal residences?

Subject:	The bling and Gordo worship is at an all time high
Date:	Nov 12 07:07
Author:	Rubicon

I've never seen so much reckless church spending in all my life. That all started with Gordo. No way would Ezra Taft Benson or Spencer W. Kimball ok what's been going on. Even lifelong TBM's I know aren't happy about the big mall complex. (Two billion dollars on a new shopping mall)

The history of organizations that don't have to report their finances to anyone is not good. They all tend to overspend and overindulge. Sometimes this brings their demise or at least shrinks the organization substantially.

What the church is doing in downtown Salt Lake is reckless and stupid. They are burning money just for the hell of it. No way are they going to get a return on what they are spending anytime soon. To recover $1.5 Billion is a lot of mall rent.

Subject:	Good News
Date:	Nov 12 08:43
Author:	Eric K

This is wonderful news for two reasons.

1.) The church is not growing.

2.) Those sitting in the meetings must be feeling a bit of discomfort in that one of the primary reasons the church is not growing is due to the top leadership – their leaders. They must surely sense there is a bit of a problem here. These sheep at the leadership meetings are the most devoted to the cause and if they are being berated, their motivation will most likely lessen or they will take it out on the rank and file. If they rage against the rank and file, the average members will become even less likely to do missionary work. The best organizations grow through attraction. To beat people to gain new converts backfires. There is resentment. Why would I want to bring my non-member friends to church if all we receive is condemnation from our leaders at meetings?

This is good news and it confirms what we have been witnessing here.

Subject:	GREAT NEWS, for certain: "Come one; come all!" Bring
Date:	Nov 12 09:10
Author:	Hi

your friends to Church! For, in time, THEY can learn to feel guilty, too! Just like you!

Who the H*** would want to wish that onto any of their friends?

Subject:	Mickelsen seemed like a nice guy. I hope my post doesn't get him in trouble.
Date:	Nov 12 11:06
Author:	Rubicon

As paranoid as the church is, I wouldn't be surprised they have people monitor what we say about them. The guy was nice but he was more businesslike than spiritual. Knowing what I know about the church now, there's no way you could climb that far up the ladder and not know it's a bunch of BS.

Subject:	The answer here is obvious. If the growth is only coming from babies, then . . .
Date:	Nov 12 10:26
Author:	Jerry the Aspousetate

the one true answer is a revelation to go back to spewing out a dozen kids per marriage like my sister-in-law in Ogden.
lol
Pay Lay Ale

Subject:	Mickelsen said exactly that.
Date:	Nov 12 11:11
Author:	Rubicon

He said the church lost so many members that only the new born in church children were raising any growth.

Subject:	This is the best news I have had in weeks! :-)
Date:	Nov 12 11:21
Author:	SusieQ#1

"He also said the second coming wasn't going to be anytime soon. There's too much work to be done."

That was my first laugh of the day!

I wonder if the Evangelicals know what he said and agree with it! :-)

Subject:	Re: Elder Lynn A. Mickelsen said the church is not growing and Gordo is chewing people out because of it.
Date:	Nov 12 11:20
Author:	Yse

The birth rate is steadily declining, even among good Mormons.

While TBMs still may have one or two kids more than they can afford, the days of large families are over.

Most interesting is that people who come out of large families have very few children themselves, mainly because they saw their parents' struggle and unhappiness.

I also know few TBMs who are keen on converting their neighbors - and for the very same reasons.

Subject:	GBH also commented during last GC that he wished N America had more members...
Date:	Nov 12 19:04
Author:	winter

I personally take it that GBH is admitting out loud that LDS Inc growth is stagnate for the purpose of softening up the faithful so they are not unduly shocked when the period of stake and ward consolidations starts in earnest.

As stated above, births are going down. According to their own statistics, convert baptisms are also going down. Number of mishies is going down. Converts per mishie is going down. According to reports here, resignations are going up. General defections, with or without resignation have been going up.

And I bet the conversion of "golden families" - middle class WASP types - is WAY down.

All of that adds up to looming demographic disaster. Like I said, GBH is softening up the troops for the inevitable announcement that the stone is not rolling forth filling the earth. It is stuck in a mud hole, and slowly sinking.

winter

Subject:	I'd like to know when last a whole WASP family was converted to Mormonism?
Date:	Nov 12 21:12
Author:	Nonplussed

What I hear, it's lonely students, loonies or immigrants. Not whole families. Definitely not well-to-do, non-dysfunctional families.

Subject:	Mickelsen is a real a when he's on assignment**
Date:	Nov 12 19:26
Author:	Southern Man

Be glad you met him when he was unofficial and felt free to show some humanity. He came to our stake conference two years ago, and he was the standard arrogant GA. He has this thing about "light", that is, if you're living the gospel, you'll sort of glow, and people can see that there's something different about you, different in a good way, I suppose. He talked about visiting a mission conference, and when he left, the missionary accompanying him said, Gee, President Mickelsen, did you see Elder So-and-So? There was no LIGHT in his eyes! Mickelsen seemed annoyed by this, as if the missionary had intruded into his private territory by looking for light, and that HE, Mickelsen, was the official light-finder. So he said, YES, elder, I DID notice that there was no light in Elder So-and-So's eyes--that's MY job.

So don't get too high an opinion of this guy. He's actually pretty standard, even if he did drop some actual facts on you.

Subject:	I've heard nothing but bad things
Date:	Nov 12 20:36
Author:	Capt Jack

from the missionaries unfortunate enough to have been on the receiving end of his interviews and zone conference talks.

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