Subject:

RFM Exclusive: America's leading Arabists speak out on Daniel C. Peterson (for real)

Date:

Oct 30, 2006 (FARMS is the Mormon apologetics group from BYU)

Author:

Tal Bachman

To hear starry-eyed FAIR posters tell it, FARMS writers are "world-renowned scholars", so smart and talented that the very fact they still claim to believe Joseph Smith always told the truth about his experiences, is more than enough reason for members (and by implication, everyone else on earth) to believe it, too. And certainly, Bro. Peterson doesn't seem shy about referring to himself as an "Arabist". He did it most recently in the current issue of the Mormon propaganda organ he edits.

So, I recently took a few minutes to email the department heads of America's top five Near Eastern or Middle Eastern Studies programs to ask them about the "world famous" Arabist Peterson, thinking that if anyone would be most familiar with productive Arabist scholars working in the United States, and qualified to comment on Peterson's scholarly reputation and research, it should be them.

I emailed the department heads at Princeton, Harvard, Columbia, UCLA (Peterson's alma mater), and Michigan.

Of the five, neither the Columbia nor Michigan DH bothered to respond (can't say I really blame them given the subject matter). However, the department heads from the other three did respond to my original email, in which I solicited their opinion of Arabist Peterson's scholarly work.

And...not one of them has ever so much as heard of Daniel C. Peterson.

Here are a few excerpts:

"I'm afraid I've never heard of him".

"I have not heard of a Daniel C. Peterson who is a scholar of NES".

And lastly, this, from the current head of the very graduate program from which the world famous Arabist got his Ph.D.:

 

"I'm not aware of any scholarly work of his in the fields of biblical studies or Semitic languages. I'll take your word for it that he graduated from UCLA at some point in the past...Mormons generally think their beliefs are credible. I'm not aware of non-Mormon scholars who find their beliefs credible, but that's hardly surprising".


Another "world famous FARMS scholar" named John Gee is so well-regarded, that at least one of his former Egyptology professors (Robert Ritner) has all but disavowed him (after demolishing his "research") in the prestigious Journal of Near Eastern Studies.

I understand that Peterson recently wrote a non-Mormon book on Islam. If so, I am pleased; if there is one thing the West needs right now, it is an understanding of the psychological closedness of those who continue to pledge allegiance to "one true way" authoritarian loyalty cults. While Peterson's Mormon propaganda pieces themselves shed all the light the world would ever need on just that mindset (all the more effectively by doing so inadvertently), a piece which does this, and which is *intended* to do this by its Mormon apologist author, can only be welcomed. Maybe such endeavours will even one day help reverse Peterson's current anonymity within the community of Arabist scholars.

T.

 

Subject:

Good sleuthing, Tal ! That is priceless ! ~ NT~

 

Subject:

tal - you amaze me

Date:

Oct 30 07:07

Author:

tol

I forgot all about the time change - so I got up at five, got ready for work and then instead of it being 5:30 and time to catch the train - it was 4:30. So I am at home reading RFM. Maybe I am the proof that when you leave the church your IQ goes down.

I love that you wrote all those schools. I am amazed - as a research manager at a University how people within the same field know each other.

If one is active in one's field - they are going to conferences, presenting, writing, publishing, collaborating, reading, and staying current.

Truly, if DP (Daniel Peterson) were half the scholar the thinks he is - he would be engaged in scholarship in his chosen field.

I don't completely understand the heady world he lives in. People look to him to answer the insults, the accusations, and present THE TRUTH about their religion. They are desperate to find something that confirms their life's decisions are right, their entire world is still one in which they are chosen and belong to God's true church.

He soothes their frightened and agitated souls. He advises the prophets on how to spin, he provides them information to try to make everything legitimate.

His arrogance has to be fed daily. The pompous way he responds to others, his easy dismissals, and obfuscations are indicative of someone who is the center of their own universe.

Mormons read him and quote him like he is Aristotle. My sister, not well read or even interested in much beyond tennis and decorating will quote him with tears of gratitude in her eyes for the amazing signs and discoveries that substantiate her belief.

The question for me - now - is not how do they believe such rot - but where are my own blind spots? How am I like that? What do I accept - not because it is good scholarship but because it is affirming?

I would love to be more critical and observant than that and a better student of the world.

 

Subject:

Nice research!

Date:

Oct 30 07:32

Author:

Huckleberry Hinkley

Makes me wonder about the people who actually do know of him and whether they've actually seen his pro-mormon work.

 

Subject:

See? I keep telling my students that research can be fun!

Date:

Oct 30 07:44

Author:

et in Utah ego

And yet they disbelieve!!

I'm tempted to use this story in class, but, I fear I would have to lay down too much back story: what mormonism is, what its silly claims are, what FARMS and FAIR are, and much much more, for it to even make sense. Once again Wallace Stegner comes to mind:

"It is almost impossible to write fiction about the mormons, for the reasons that mormon institutions and mormon society are so peculiar that they call for constant explanation."

There's always TOO much back story and explanation needed....

 

 

Subject:

Reply

Date:

Oct 30 11:25

Author:

Tal Bachman

Tol, I know just what you mean. The shock of finding out I was wrong about everything that was most important to me in life has kept me kind of on edge ever since. I actually invented a word to describe my state in the immediate aftermath of my discovery: "credophobia" - fear of believing in *anything*. To believe was to make myself vulnerable to more hurt...

One way I've come to some peace about what I ought to believe, is, whenever I start believing in something, trying to make sure I can always come up with satisfactory falsification tests in my mind, and looking for disconfirming evidence, rather than simply staying in the human mind's default mode, which is to automatically start looking for confirming evidences (probably to protect our vanity).

And speaking of vanity, Et - PLEASE use my example in your class! It would inch me that much closer to the immortal legacy I crave. What do you want, sugar? Money? I hear tell "you can buy anything in this world with money"...:P

Lastly -

One big, fat problem with ideological fanatics, and one give away that someone IS an ideological fanatic, is that they are incapable of distinguishing *criticism* from *persecution*. This is the case with religious as well as non-religious varieties of fanatics.

Any questioning of their ideological master, or the wisdom of their goals, or anything else about their program, isn't welcomed as an argument to be met, but as an *affront* motivated by sinister motives. It feeds a victim complex, which in turn (like everything else at that point) is made by the fanatic's mind into just *more* evidence that *he is right* (since ideologies always posit that precisely because they are the absolute truth, the "wicked" will always war against them). The ridiculous responses by a certain Mormon apologist to Robert Ritner's disavowal of his former student John Gee is a good example of this characteristic of ideological fanaticism. Another is the recurrence of ad hominem attacks in Mormon apologetic material. On a smaller scale, this is also why you get FARMS writers forever taking offense at "tone"...

They are ideological fanatics, NOT people capable of employing their rational faculties to discuss (rationally) the matter at hand. It is no wonder their material is "not so much rejected as ignored" by non-Mormon scholars, in the words of Peterson himself. Normal people don't want to waste their time, and lower their reputation, by attempting "rational discussion" with people who have made it perfectly clear that they are not only incapable of rational discussion, but in the end, totally uninterested in it. All they wish to do is the end, like all ideological fanatics, is to keep *themselves* in the psychologically closed state in which belief in their evidence-less ideology remains possible, and hopefully, (for the same reason) somehow or other get others into the same psychologically closed state.

 

Subject:

In the real world: Joseph Smith Jr? Never heard of him. In the world of NES: Daniel C Peterson? Never heard of him!

Date:

Oct 30 11:45

Author:

SusieQ#1

I will be laughing for some time about this ! Great work Tal!

Sure makes one wonder if a professor at BYU has any real credentials at all.
Does BYU do any backgound checks?

DCP gets the bologna award! He is full of it. Bologna in, bologna out. One does feel sorry for him I suppose. All that prattling about such important bologna appeals to... well, someone ... a couple of folks I guess think he is hot stuff!

Thanks for shattering our hither-to-held esteem for a bologna apologists! (Still laughing!)

 

Subject:

Background checks at BYU

Date:

Oct 30 23:45

Author:

D. P. Gumby

Does BYU do any backgound checks?

Absolutely. They make sure you have a valid temple recommend.

 

 

Subject:

Don't care so much they haven't heard of him . Would love to hear..

Date:

Oct 30 13:12

Author:

larry

what they think of his work, though. Have them look over the the "if/and" stuff and get a serious never-Mo critique of the apologetics. I've heard some of the FARMS defense(NHM, Chiasmus, Hebraisms) but would like to see some independent corraboration of these theories/approaches.

Too bad no one outside the Mo/Exmo community cares about any of this.

 

 

Subject:

Another way to investigate - look through scholarly journals

Date:

Oct 30 13:14

Author:

T-bone

Look at the articles in scholarly journals. If DCP is listed as an author, editor, or contributor in some way, then he's working like other professors.

If the only contributions you can find are at FARMS or FAIR, then that's all he's done.

T-Bone

 

Subject:

Here ya go, T-Bone (edited)

Date:

Oct 30 17:43

Author:

javanorm

The following is all I could find in a search using the most comprehensive academic database I know of. "Times cited" indicates the number of articles in the database that have cited the paper.

(Note: All but two of the contributions listed below are book reviews and I have edited the list to mark them as such. The two exceptions were published in the journal "BYU Studies"--and neither, apparently, has ever been cited in the academic literature.)


Peterson DC
By the hand of Mormon: The American scripture that launched a World Religion.
BYU STUDIES 43 (4): 140-149 2004
Times Cited: 0
(Book Review)

Peterson DC
The language of God - Understanding the Qur'an
BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY STUDIES 40 (4): 51-68 2001
Times Cited: 0
(Article)

Peterson DC
The history of al-Tabari, vol. 8: The victory of Islam
INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF MIDDLE EAST STUDIES 31 (1): 124-126 FEB 1999
Times Cited: 0
(Book Review)

Peterson DC
The history of al-Tabari, vol. 16: The community divided
INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF MIDDLE EAST STUDIES 31 (1): 124-126 FEB 1999
Times Cited: 0
(Book Review)

Peterson DC
Sweet is the word: Reflections on the 'Book of Mormon' - Its narrative, teachings, and people
BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY STUDIES 37 (2): 141-144 1997
Times Cited: 0
(Book Review)

HAMBLIN WJ, PETERSON DC, MITTON GL
THE REFINERS-FIRE - THE MAKING OF MORMON COSMOLOGY, 1644-1844 - BROOKE,JL
BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY STUDIES 34 (4): 167-181 1994
Times Cited: 1
(Book Review)

PETERSON DC
MORMONS AND THE BIBLE - THE PLACE OF THE LATTER-DAY-SAINTS IN AMERICAN RELIGION - BARLOW,PL
REVIEW OF RELIGIOUS RESEARCH 34 (1): 78-79 SEP 1992
Times Cited: 0
(Book Review)

HONEY DB, PETERSON DC
ADVOCACY AND INQUIRY IN THE WRITING OF LATTER-DAY-SAINT HISTORY
BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY STUDIES 31 (2): 139-179 SPR 1991
Times Cited: 0
(Article)

PETERSON DC
EXILES IN A LAND OF LIBERTY - MORMONS IN AMERICA, 1830-1846 - WINN,KH
JOURNAL FOR THE SCIENTIFIC STUDY OF RELIGION 30 (1): 127& MAR 1991
Times Cited: 0
(Book Review)

PETERSON DC
RELIGIOUS SEEKERS AND THE ADVENT OF MORMONISM - VOGEL,D
JOURNAL FOR THE SCIENTIFIC STUDY OF RELIGION 30 (1): 127& MAR 1991
Times Cited: 0
(Book Review)

 

Subject:

well, there you have it FWIW n/t

 

Subject:

Which apparently is not much...(see edit above). n/t

 

Subject:

Science Citation Index

Date:

Oct 30 23:59

Author:

Ishouldbedoingsomethingelse

I searched for Peterson's name in this database, which also searches Social Sciences and Arts and Humanities journals, and the only citation of him I could find was in BYU Studies. There are a hell of a lot of D Peterson's, but none as far as I could tell where DCP. The closest match was a guy who got his degree from the Universtiy of Manchester.

 

Subject:

try this link

Date:

Oct 30 14:10

Author:

norton w. nutley

Mail Address:

http://www.wm.edu/aata/byu.php

 

 

Subject:

And they said... Daniel C. WHO?

Yeah.

 

 

Subject:

His new book

Date:

Oct 30 18:44

Author:

Jim Huston

You don't get any respect as a professor if you don't publish authoritative works or research in your field. Peterson was talking about his new book on FAIR about six months ago. He said it was a review of existing literature. There was no new research and nothing really authoritative. He has done a compilation and summary of the works of legitimate academics.

The FARMS and FAIR people sacrifice their academic standing with their peers to write crap. At the same time, the Morg leadership would cut them off and crush them without a second thought, if they felt it was to their advantage.

 

Subject:

Re: RFM Exclusive: America's leading Arabists speak out on Daniel C. Peterson (for real)

Date:

Oct 30 19:46

Author:

SusieQ#1

Jim Huston wrote:

> The FARMS and FAIR people sacrifice their academic standing with their peers to write crap. At the same time, the Morg leadership would cut them off and crush them without a second thought, if they felt it was to their advantage.

I have often wondered if the idea of; "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull" tactic of the apologists is fooling the Morg leadership. Are they buying it also, or just going along with it because they think it doesn't do any harm?

Also, it appears that those who are sincere and actually reading the apologetic's work find themselves unimpressed very fast and out the Mormon Church doors like they have been shot out of a cannon.

They have an odd situation on their hands, that's for sure.
Because some of these apologists prattling away are associated with BYU they give the appearance of intelligence and credibility.

 

Subject:

Re: His new book

Date:

Oct 30 19:57

Author:

Randy J.

>Peterson was talking about his new book on FAIR about six months ago. He said it was a review of existing literature. There was no new research and nothing really authoritative. >He has done a compilation and summary of the works of legitimate academics.


This reminds me of what some of the TBMs on ARM used to say about anthropologist and apologist John Sorenson. The question was, have any Mormon scholars produced any works which were published in secular media and received any accolades or were considered to be of value apart from apologetics. One TBM cited a book Sorenson had written which was nothing more than a bibliography of published literature on the subject of diffusionism (Pre-Columbian ocean crossings which would support the possibility of the BOM story's authenticity.)

The book didn't add any legitimate scholarship to the issue. It was about as valuable as a book consisting of reports of claimed UFO sightings.

 

Subject:

Is it possible that BYU does not LIKE original thinking? nt

 

 

Subject:

EBSCO Host has one article from 2003 that mentions his name.

Date:

Oct 30 22:53

Author:

saemo

There is nothing published by him. (EBSCO Host is an academic research database.)

 

 

 

Subject:

Same response I always get

Date:

Oct 31 14:25

Author:

Concrete Zipper

There are some good universities in the Boston area (to put it mildly) and I run into all kinds of interesting people.

When I meet someone who is in Arabic/Near Eastern type studies or a related field, I try to remember to ask them about our good friend. The answer, so far, has always been "Who?".

CZ



Subject:

Mormon Scientist says DNA Evidence Does Not Disprove the Book of Mormon, and Big Foot is Real

Date:

Nov 08 23:12

Author:

bob mccue

Mormon Science is flourishing. First we have nut-bar conspiracy theorist Steven Jones (see http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635160132,00.html) and then I was reminded last night of the accomplishments of Book of Mormon defender D. Jeffrey Meldrum.

Meldrum is an LDS scientist at Idaho State who has published a number of articles and at least one book related to science and Mormonism. He weighs in on the “you’ll never refute the Book of Mormon using DNA evidence” side of the DNA argument (see http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php?filename=Mjk3NjA2NTc1LTEyLTEucGRm&type=amJtcw). There, after offering a silly mixture of scripture, J. Smith’s meandering ideas, magical thinking and unparsimonious science, Muldrum and his co-authors conclude:

“Ultimately we are impressed by the realization that the fundamental question of the veracity of the claims of the Book of Mormon lies beyond the ken of modern DNA research. The final implications of the book, as a witness of the prophetic calling of Joseph Smith and as another testament of the divinity of Jesus Christ, remain within the realm of faith and individual testimony.”

Hmmm. Might the same be said about the proposition that the Earth is very old? Indeed, there are many people with PhD’s in geology, mostly on staff at Biblical literalist educational institutions (using that term a bit loosely) who argue that the case has not been definitively made that the Earth is much more than 6,000 years old. “You can’t prove it!” is their battle cry.

I was reminded of this last night when I heard that Meldrum was interviewed on CBC with regard to one of his other research interests – proving that Big Foot is real. Here again, Meldrum is piecing together scraps of evidence against long odds. Says Meldrum, “I'm not out to proselytize that Bigfoot exists. I place legend under scrutiny and my conclusion is, absolutely. Bigfoot exists."

Does anyone see a pattern yet?

See http://www.isu.edu/~meldd/fxnlmorph.html for a sample of Meldrum’s Big Foot work, and http://www.dailytidings.com/2006/1106/stories/1106_bigfoot.php and http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=013000QGDE34 for summaries of how his professional peers view his research. The typical comment runs as follows:

“… many scientists are embarrassed by what they call Meldrum's "pseudo-academic" pursuits and have called on the university to review his work with an eye toward revoking his tenure. One physics professor, D.P. Wells, wonders whether Meldrum plans to research Santa Claus, too.”

Another of Meldrum’s colleague’s puts his finger of the problem’s root, as follows:

“A scientist should not be a believer, said Martin Hackworth, a senior lecturer in the physics department at Idaho State University.”

Indeed.

best,
bob

 

 

Subject:

BOB

Date:

Nov 08 23:37

Author:

Tal Bachman

I've been including Bigfoot/Cain references in my FARMS parodies for THREE YEARS...and I had NO idea that this Meldrum, who I've known about for years, was a MORMON LOL. NOOOOOO It's TOO GOOD! How did I miss that?

By the way, does this remind you of any other "scholars" you know of?: "He knows that most scientists dispute his research methods. They say he seeks to prove, rather than test, his theories."

One other nit-picky thing. Isn't the word "ken" misused in the sentence "...lies beyond the ken of modern DNA research"? How can DNA research have "ken"? Aren't conscious minds the only thing that can have "ken"?

Anyway...it is impossible to parody the Mormon church, because everything's already being done by them. Did you read Enigma's post about Bushman saying in "Rough Stone Rolling", that it hasn't been definitively established that the Book of Mormon even happened in America?

We have GOT to do up a really great thread around this and recommend to Eric it be archived. Totally amazing.

 

Subject:

Bushman would be correct

Date:

Nov 08 23:49

Author:

OU812

Tal Bachman wrote:
> Did you read Enigma's post about Bushman saying in "Rough Stone Rolling", that it hasn't been definitively established that the Book of Mormon even happened in America?

Actually, Bushman would be correct as you stated his conclusion above. In fact, it has been definitively established that the events of the Book of Mormon as written did not ever happen in America. Only those with a predisposition or bias could conclude otherwise after looking at the linguistic, DNA, archaeological, and other objective scientific evidence.

 

Subject:

Twist it until it hurts.

Date:

Nov 08 23:49

Author:

MarkJ

The attitude of "it means whatever I chose it to mean" is one of several that caused my head to spin while TBM. It still causes vertigo when I go near these things.

"Evidence," "witness," and "testimony" to me mean tangible, verifiable, and independent elements that support a claim. How can one be a scientist and then resort to the "realm of faith and individual testimony" (i.e. it makes me happy)?

 

Subject:

Grrrrrrr.

Date:

Nov 09 00:26

Author:

Dagny

Darn it, we have two universities here and the LDS church shouldn't be allowed to run both of them. I hope ISU becomes more secular and lets Ricks become THE religious college around here.

I sincerely hope the whack job ISU LDS professors eventually get jobs at Ricks, er, I mean BYUI.

It's hard when the bulk of the population here is LDS. No one stands up to this kind of stuff like they should at a state school.

 

Subject:

Too damn funny...

Date:

Nov 09 01:08

Author:

Dbradhud

Tal, you can't parody this. It IS a parody.


See also:  Summary of Mormon Apologetics

 

 

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