Subject:

Dinner with the Elders - just when I thought the church couldn't stoop any lower...

Date:

Oct 08, 2005  [Listing of related Mormon missionary topics at the bottom]

Author:

The Coach

Webmaster Note:  Mormon Missionaries are referred to as Elders.  They use the title “Elder” instead of their first names.

 

Earlier this evening, I was walking downtown to eat at my local Chinese buffet, when up ahead what should I see? Two missionaries walking my way. I thought "They don't know me, I'll just smile, say no thanks, and be on my way."

When our paths met, we both paused as the senior companion started giving his spiel. In the middle of his introduction, I heard something that completely threw me off - his stomach rumbled. I watched his face, which winced at the same time I heard the sound. I cut him off "Elders, when was the last time you ate?" They told me that all they had eaten in the past 2 days were 2 cups of Ramen noodles each. "I tell you what..." I said "if you promise to leave the church at the door, you can come with me to eat at the buffet." You would have thought that I had just offered them a garbage bag full of $100 bills. They agreed and we went to the resturant.

As we ate, my curiosity got the best of me. I told them that by the church's standards I was "inactive" but I knew a few things about how the church works. The ward has a sign-up sheet for families to sign up and feed them. Was no one signing up for this? What the senior companion told me made my jaw drop.

"There is a new policy." he said "It isn't that there is a lack of people wanting to feed us, it is just how the system is complicating things. Before, members just signed up for a day and time, we came over, we ate, and then we were on our way. Last month, our new mission president told all wards that all dinner appointments must have a non-member, an inactive member, or a new convert present, or they must be canceled. If there is no prospective convert, we don't eat."

That blew me away. He told me that members still give them things to eat, but that only lasts you so long. Since the town I live in is a virtual dead zone for the church, you can imagine what their dinner schedule must look like. Later in the conversation, they told me that things have been getting even more difficult since their car has been taken away. They said that 3 weeks ago, someone with no license and no insurance rear ended them at a stop light. The mission president told the elders that it was their fault for not being more careful and took their keys away.

I asked them if I could ask them an honest question. I told them that nothing they said would bring me back to church, so they might as well just tell me the truth. They agreed. "Do you think the church cares about you?" I asked them. They thought about it for a few minutes and then both said "I really don't know." They said that they would like to believe that the church loves and cares about them, but they couldn't understand why it would allow such a program to be put in place.

As we parted company, I gave them my cell phone number. I told them that any time they were hungry, they could call me and we would go get something to eat. My only condition was that they respect my new-found faith and not try to reconvert me. They said that we have a deal. We left with a smile.

Has anyone else heard of this new policy in the church, or is it just a local thing? When they told me, my jaw dropped. It sounds like the new mission president is a real prick. How can he honestly believe that starving his missionary force will bring people into the church? I have absolutely no reason to doubt the elder's honesty that this is a real policy. He could have said "We have been fasting for 2 days. The Lord promised us that when we broke our fast, we would be in the presence of someone in desperate need of the gospel. Brother The Coach, we invite you to soften your heart, repent, and return." I wouldn't have believed them, but it would have made the church look much better than telling me about the "new policy."

It makes me sick that any church would do this to members who are volunteering their TIME AND MONEY to serve.

 

Subject:

I've heard about it as well in my state-michigan nt

 

Subject:

Someone else posted about this a while ago.

Date:

Oct 08 21:04

Author:

Matt

I wonder if this is what Hinckley means by "raising the bar?" :O/\

 

Subject:

I am from Michigan, too. Maybe it is just a Michigan thing? nt

 

Subject:

Re: Dinner with the Elders - just when I thought the church couldn't stoop any lower...

Date:

Oct 08 21:02

Author:

Bay Area Bob

I've heard rumblings about this sort of thing lately, but nothing specific. Therefore, I don't doubt your story at all.

Hopefully, others with more knowledge will post on this.

It seems the purpose would obviously be to strengthen the spirituality of the missionaries, just like the very successful ones of yore!!

But I agree, it seems rather low of the Church and probably doomed!

 

Subject:

Coach, I believe some other people ..... [smidge of language]

Date:

Oct 08 21:04

Author:

Skunk Puppet

have made posts about this "no investigator, no dinner" policy.

I didn't think it was a commandment from on high but that it depended upon the mission president. But I could be wrong.

Either way, it is downright cruel to starve a couple kids and their mishie prez must be a right asshole.

And, Coach, that was very, very kind of you to treat these boys to a buffet dinner. I hope they really stuffed themselves.

If you don't watch out, Coach, you might end up NEPA-tizing them! ;)

 

Subject:

We were told that we had to have 'investigators' present in order to have the missionaries eat dinner with our family.

Date:

Oct 08 21:22

Author:

a thought

I didn't realize the extent that the church would go in this new approach. This is so disgusting that I can't even begin to vent.

Coach, thanks for opening your heart and wallet to these two uninformed missionaries. Perhaps they'll get the real message of the LDS church: 'We don't care about you, only your time, talent, and all you possess'.

Fraud and deceit. I know where I'd like to stick that proverbial raised bar.....

 

Subject:

Re: tis the policy here

Date:

Oct 08 21:23

Author:

Bob the truthseeker

Yes, I don't know if it's worldwide but it is also the policy here in Georgia since earlier this year. I suspect they are doing it everywhere in the USA.

 

Subject:

Re: My dogs & cats are better fed than these fellas...frankly I could not finish your story....n/t

 

Subject:

I live in Georgia and I happened to be at church when I heard that announcement made over 2 years ago.

Date:

Oct 08 21:27

Author:

Stephanie

I thought to myself, "I guess we won't be having missionaries over anymore." We were allowed to bring them food, however.

I didn't realize how much missionaries suffered until I came to this BB. Now I have a completely different attitude toward them and I'll try to help them. It's the local Mormons that show up unannounced that will get the door shut in their face.

 

Subject:

I agree...

Date:

Oct 08 21:38

Author:

The Coach

In all honesty (it may not be a very popular thing to say around here), I can count on one hand and have fingers left over the number of times I have met a missionary I didn't like. For the most part, whenever they show up at my house, it is always because they weren't informed that I asked not to be contacted. They always apologize and are on their way. I think they are good guys. If it weren't for this board, I would be out wearing a white shirt and tie myself right now.

It is the local yokals at the ward who DO know that I want to be left alone that irritate me.

 

Subject:

"On my mission ..."

Date:

Oct 08 21:38

Author:

mathyou

... this policy was implemented; that was in 1999. Although I did not like it, I think it was a "blessing in disguise." I started my mission without the policy and I gained ten pounds over the course of six or seven months. The policy was implemented, all the members and missionaries bitched and moaned and I lost the ten pounds that I had previously gained.

Then when I had a week left on my mission, the new mission president (who had been in for just under three months) announced that said policy was no longer in effect. I was a irritated that the reversal came when I was just finishing, but I was fine with it because I didn't care since I was going home anyway.

[addendum]
IIRC, for me, the policy was actually created by an area authority seventy. Then it was up the mission presidents in the area to implement the policy. I knew of many missions that didn't have the policy. It basically came down to how "strict" one's mission president was.
[/addendum]

 

Subject:

Re: Since it is the beginning of the month...

Date:

Oct 08 21:51

Author:

The Coach

I don't know. Frankly, I don't care. They need that money to get them through the rest of the month - I say let them keep it. I knew that they were very hungry just by watching them eat - they ate like pigs. I was fairly hungry, but they ran laps around me at the buffet line. I was happy to be able to do this for them - I know that if I were in their position (like I almost was), someone would do the same thing for me.

 

Subject:

Re: Dinner with the Elders - just when I thought the church couldn't stoop any lower...

Date:

Oct 08 21:49

Author:

Bay Area Bob

I think this goes to show just how hard-up the LDS missionary system is getting! Those of us who've been awhile on RfM realize the Church probably isn't growing and may be shrinking and the Church continues to put-up a brave front claiming it's growing well.

It seems to me that at some point the rank-and-file in the Church are going to come to realize there are REAL problems with church growth--and the latest cutesy program to give away free videos or BofMs isn't going to turn it around!

The true problems are deep-seated and endemic and won't respond to shallow fixes.

The Church can claim until the sun goes down that increasing numbers of operating temples proves everything is all right, but more and more are not going to buy it!!

I'm sure glad I'm not in-charge of the Morg's missionary programs, because they would NOT like what I would do to fix it!!

 

Subject:

On my mission, we only had dinner appointments once or twice a month. (mild profanity)

Date:

Oct 08 21:55

Author:

rmw

Don't they know how to cook???? My comment is to "get over it and fix yourself a meal." I really don't have much sympathy. I was totally flabbergasted when my I heard that missionaries get dinner appointments EVERY DAY in some places. The only "assured" dinner appointments I ever got were on Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Starving missionaries? LOL LOL LOL LOL Bunch of cry babies. Do they have assignments for members to wipe their asses too?

 

Subject:

?

Date:

Oct 08 22:00

Author:

The Coach

You don't seem to understand. They were not complaining. They didn't ASK me if they could come along, I invited them. The only time they even came close to complaining was when I asked them "Do you think the church cares about you?" and even then, they didn't come as close to complaining as I would if I were in their place.

 

Subject:

Sorry, Coach, But you're whole premise is ridiculous. "Starving his missionary force" LOL

Date:

Oct 08 22:16

Author:

rmw

All throughout your article, you come across as "blown away" that these poor missionaries no longer are fed by the members of the LDS church. My response is SO WHAT! Go fix a damn sandwich.

Sorry, I just can't bring myself to become sympathetic to non-disabled adult needing to be fed by other people.

 

Subject:

Re: Sorry, Coach, But you're whole premise is ridiculous. "Starving his missionary force" LOL

Date:

Oct 08 22:22

Author:

The Coach

I am not surprised that they are hungry, I am surprised that their church is letting this happen. If you don't care, fine. Maybe I am a sucker - so be it. I am glad that I bought them dinner and would do it again. This is what I would hope someone would do for me if I were in their situation.

 

 

Subject:

Re: Sorry, Coach, But you're whole premise is ridiculous. "Starving his missionary force" LOL

Date:

Oct 09 01:06

Author:

Ray

It takes money to make a sandwich you moron. May be they don't have any. I guess they could make a sign and stand on a corner asking for money to buy food like other starving people. That would be just great wouldn't it? Standing there asking for handouts in their white shirts and black pants and name tags, with their bicycles parked behind them. That would show people how much Mormons care.

 

Subject:

Re: Dinner with the Elders - just when I thought the church couldn't stoop any lower...

Date:

Oct 08 22:18

Author:

Nattering Nabob

BKP: was my MP. At one point he wouldn't let us go to church if we didn't have investigators to bring. We had to go out tracting. So I can believe this story. Maybe this current thing is Boyd's idea

 

Subject:

Coach, you did the right thing.....

Date:

Oct 08 22:31

Author:

Randy J.

Every time I run into missionaries, I give them $10 and tell them to buy themselves a decent meal. It's because I remember how tight money was on my mission, and how ill-fed we often were. When we were out tracting during the day {Australia 1970’s], lunch was usually fish (20 cents), chips (20 cents), and a soda (20 cents.) Sometimes we'd get meat pies (like small American pot pies) or chiko rolls, which were like large egg rolls.

My second companion was a real cheapskate. He would put two apples and some crappy granola cookies in a Pringles can and strap it to his bike. That was supposed to be "lunch." We'd sit on the curb and eat it. He wouldn't even go to a park bench or some other private place where we could relax.

Our mission rule was no more than one dinner with members per week, and we were supposed to wash the dishes and stay for no more than an hour. Unfortunately, in some of my areas, there were no or few active members, so we got few dinners. Our shopping day was Monday, so by Sunday, we were usually out of food or down to the nubs. If we didn't get invited to eat on Sunday after church, Sunday dinner was often vegemite sandwiches or tomato soup, and if you were lucky, you had some noodles to put in it. If you had a can of tuna fish and some mayo to mix with the noodles, you were eating high on the hog.

Those Sunday dinners with members were a lifesaver for me. After spending all week knocking on doors with little success, it was nice to have a good meal and socializing with some friendly people before having to start the drudgery over again on Monday.

I spent 4.5 months in one area where there was a small bakery just a coupla blocks from our flat. On Saturday nights when we were riding our bikes home, we would stop at the bakery, knock on the back door, and the night baker would sell us a loaf of hot, uncut bread for 50 cents. We would take that hot bread home, slice it up, and put butter and jam on it and eat our fill. I don't think I've ever eaten anything that tasted so good as that.

Of course, I realize that I didn't have it as bad as a lot of missionaries. I never had to eat chicken-feet soup or rats & rice or anything else that a lot of missionaries in third-world areas have to. Frankly, I don't know if I could have endured eating that crap for two years.

 

Subject:

AGREED!! sometimes i used to give them groceries, like tuna, cereal, nonperishables like that

Date:

Oct 08 22:36

Author:

lost girl

because abusing goofy kids is ... really sick behavior imho!!

and hey, if we "pariahs" are the ones who properly feed and look out for them, what will that tell them?? that we are a whole lot more Christ like than the "actives" who wouldn't better care for them!

 

Subject:

I agree to some degree. But it's not quite that bad.

Date:

Oct 08 22:59

Author:

rmw

Missionaries are just a cog in a wheel that helps the church move along. True.

But to say that parents treat their missionaries like "disposable trash" is a little harsh.

My parents were always very supportive and understanding. My mother never missed sending me a letter at least once a week. They were doing what they thought was right.

The mission president was supportive and genuinely cared about his missionaries. He and I had several close conversations and kept in touch after the mission was over.

I really never felt mis-treatment.

As for the meals, I was always grateful for member dinner appointments. Most meals were far better than what we could have fixed -- although I had some companions that were pretty good cooks. One fixed the best stuffed grape leaves I've ever eaten.

That being said, I know there are areas and cases where the food is not plentiful and good -- mainly in foreign lands. Several of my brothers served overseas and one in particular had a difficult time with food.

But in my day (pre-1980) missionaries had to make at least 20 out of 21 meals a week and we accomplished it without many problems. So, I don't really relate to "starving missionaries" if they don't get a home-cooked meal from a member every day.

 

Subject:

This is Abuse

Date:

Oct 08 23:13

Author:

Gillian

I am an ex-mormon, and I come from a family of "strong" and "faithful" mormons. I have read this entire thread and omg, I cannot believe that is has come this far.

Some of you are not sympathetic to missionaries (then obviously, you never were) nor was I, but my sweet little brother was. And I sent him money directly for 2 straight years (weekly) because all of the money for their monthly allowance had to last allll month long. Coach, thank you for your generosity. All of the rest of you that do not understand and do not care, you have not had to miss many meals, have ya??

Well, you need to understand, these young boys and girls and impressionable le teenagers just doing what they think will make their parents and ward "proud". I remember I was going to go on a mission because I was told that when you go on a mission your name is written in permanent marker in heaven, and no matter what you did that God would forgive you, because you went on a mission---crock, isn’t it.

We can say that now, but when I was younger I believed it, and I think those mish's still do. I will help any missionary any day. And btw, alot of the parent do not even know how much money everything they need cost, and the church tells them, send whatever you can afford and we will take care of the rest....ya right. If it was not for us, that have a heart and know the TRUTH then alot more of them would be going hungry. Until next time.....

 

Subject:

This will backfire on the church

Date:

Oct 09 00:10

Author:

Squid


Not only is this planting seeds of discontent that may figure into a RM's apostacy later, but as far as the success of finding converts, many members don't want to expose the potential convert to a set of missionaries until they find out what kind of missionaries they are as far as spirituality, people-skills, intelligence, savvy and other intangibles, in an intimate home setting.

This was the case on my mission as several families, after having us over for dinner several times in the period of a few weeks, told us that they had finally felt good about introducing their friends to us, whereas there was no way in hell they would introduce their friends to other sets of missionaries who had come through before us.

The church is screwing themselves w/ this policy. I guess we should be happy for that fact.

 

Subject:

It is real!!

Date:

Oct 09 00:16

Author:

King Noah

I recently got off a mission about a year a go (it hasn't take n me long since to leave the church) Anyways, there were some stake presidents in some of the Alabama stakes, that were telling the members that they couldn't have the missionaries over unless they had an investigator...etc... Anyways, this was a real downer for us because our limited 150 dollar budget a month only sufficed for some stupid ramen and mac and cheese

 

Subject:

Re: It is real!!

Date:

Oct 09 00:22

Author:

bona dea

As a member, I would not have invited a non-Mormon friend to dinner with the missionaries unless they had requested it. Many of the Mormons I knew felt the same way. We would have invited the missionaries to dinner but we would have balked at putting friends in an uncomfortable position. I suspect that this isn't going to result in a lot of investigators being invited to dinner, but a lot of missionaries not getting invited. I know the fanatical will try to convert everyone but there are a lot of Mormons who aren't going to risk friendships by doing this to friends

 

Subject:

Re: Dinner with the Elders - just when I thought the church couldn't stoop any lower...

Date:

Oct 09 00:24

Author:

Agassiz

From now on, every time I see mishies in my neighborhood, I'm going to invite them to eat. I'll even let them teach me a lesson so they can keep the stupid ass rule!

 

Subject:

feeding the elders

Date:

Oct 09 02:17

Author:

queen bee

First, I think it was very kind to feed the elders. I don't think the point is whether or not they SHOULD have been hungry...when you encountered them they were hungry. What I think is abominable about this policy is that it so misses the point. I'm thinking that the original reason for inviting missionaries into members home had more to do with Christ's teaching that when you reach out to the least of these you reach out to him (something like that), in short, it was the spirit of the thing...this new policy is so inhumane and non christian and just wrong. QB

 

Subject:

Re: feeding the elders--closed thread

Date:

Oct 09 02:21

Author:

bona dea

I don't remember Christ having a lot of petty rules for missionaries either. They are doing the church a favor at their own expense and they aren't even allowed to make the tiniest decisions.

 

Subject:

Let's use this to break the church's hold.....

Date:

Oct 09 01:23

Author:

Full of Myself (Joy)

I guess the missionaries have a "set amount" that they are supposed to spend each month for food? Surely, this amount has been calculated to ensure an adequate, but not expensive, diet?

If not, can't their parents send them extra money? Gee, I think any parent who knew their kids were hungry would send them extra money for food. It just seems ridiculous that missionaries from North America would not have enough money to buy a box of macaroni and cheese.

I know, I know, their parents are poor because they are paying for the missionary. But, ya know, it costs a lot more to keep a kid at college than on a mission.

It's just hard to believe that higher ups wouldn't calculate enough of a food budget to keep a missionary in peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. And, if they are in the third world, surely the food there is a lot cheaper?

 

Subject:

A tangent off THE COACH's post about feeding mishies ... and HYPER church control...[a tad of cussin']

Date:

Oct 09 05:34

Author:

Skunk Puppet

The Coach posted about coming across two hungry missionaries on the street and inviting them to eat as his guests at a Chinese buffet dinner. The mishies told the Coach that they were not allowed to have dinner at members' homes anymore unless 1) a new convert, 2) a non-mormon, or 3) an inactive mormon was also present.

Many ppl on this board then shared their comments about this particular practice in various mission areas.

That LDS, Inc. is instrusive and controlling in the lives of its members is well established but the Coach's post really underlined this point with me in a new subtle and sinister way:

By this policy, LDS, Inc. is FORCING a host family to feed another mouth in addition to two mishies. It is bad enough that the morg squeezes everything it can get out its members, but this policy is commanding a family that would just like to offer a meal to a couple of hungry kids that they must now feed a THIRD mouth.

In other words, the Mormon church reaches into your home and tells you who you CAN or CANNOT have over for dinner.

We all know the outrageous cost of food these days and that a family's budget could be strained enough by feeding these kids, but the Morg knows it has the power to butt in, make up some new bullshit rules and demand more of its members and make these mishies pay the consequences.

It never ends with these Mormons making stupid, non-productive policies. They're not living on ramen noodles for days on end. Assholes.

This stuff really steams this Skunk.


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