| Subject: | Tithing never brought my Mormon family Financial Blessings |
| Date: | Jan 25 12:45 2004 |
| Author: | whatiswanted? |
| As a child my dad was bishop at age 30. it was the
late 70's and my dad worked his ass off. He was the stalwart TBM. I
liken him to LEHI since he lived a breathed Mormonism with such
conviction. Anyhow, he did everything by the book and paid his tithing faithfully. During this time, the 80's was in a recession and his job was cutting back and I never saw any money come to our family. Tithing actually hindered us. We couldn't pay our normal bills cause MORG was paid first. We lost our car and everything. Luckily the church brethren came to our rescue and we went to the storehouse and they paid our mortgage before we lost our house. I look at that as having our tithing refunded back to us since my dad was such a strong pillar in the stake. Now 25 years later, my dad still has money issues. What has tithing done for my dad? Put him in debt! I got to hand it to him. He is a pillar of what conviction is, but he's in the wrong vehicle. |
| Subject: | Chances are you'll never hear this "faith-promoting" story in sacrament meeting or general conference. |
| Subject: | In a way the' are right when they say that paying your tithing blesses 'the family'. 'The family' being all the GA's which, of course, are mostly related to each other.... |
| Subject: | My dad did the same thing. |
| Date: | Jan 25 16:45 |
| Author: | Gabrielle |
| Hi, my dad was a Bishop too and now they are living
in poverty being supported by their kids. He lost his job and was out of
work for 3 years. His house was foreclosed on and all he had left was
some furniture, truck loads of debt and basically no real relationship
with anyone. I tried one night to honestly talk to mom and dad before I left them permanently. I used to be ultra TBM, but had since left the church and studied my way to clarity and mental health. I tried to show them in a very non threatening way that their allegiance to the church was literally destroying our relationship and destroying their lives. They didn't listen to me. That still hurts. I have no relationship with anyone of my family members now. That really sucks, but I'd rather have it that way then to deal with the white/mormon supremacy that I had to deal with before. Heck, I even left the country. I was just so tired of it all. So, I understand what you are talking about. Gabrielle |
| Subject: | Re: Tithing never brought my family Financial Blessings |
| Date: | Jan 25 20:45 |
| Author: | YukonCornelius |
| I heard this story often...but Lara C is right. You
will NEVER hear it in LDS Conference. My in-laws are just as you
describe, too. They are dead broke and they pay tithing...even on the
money we send them. I figure it like this. The LDS Church would take the
pennies off someone's eyes. For me, I was a faithful tither...always. We never had all that much money but I did wonder where the blessings were that they had promised. Even my Bishop promised me blessings...but I never did see them. I don't count making a mistake in my checkbook, or forgetting money I had invested, much of a blessing either. You always hear those stories. I told the same when I was in his position. When my flock came to me I told them the same old recycled garbage about tithing. At one point, we were fairly broke. I was struggling to keep going to church(due to festering unbelief and disgust at lies). We had already sold our home and even that money was about to go(but by golly we paid that tithing and the bishop kept a promisin'). I could not get a contract to save my life during those days. Later on, I just quit paying tithing and left the LDS Church. Within 2 months after leaving, I received some true blessings. I received more business than I could handle and within 4 months we got a much nicer home than we had ever had (previously, we had moved into a condo that was way too small for my family and I kept wondering and asking..."where's the blessings?"). We pay tithing today but no one knows because no one asks (and even if they did it's no one's business). It's between us and God. I don't know if I have seen any blessings that I can pin down from tithing. For me, it's just that I feel it's the right thing to do from my own belief and scripture study. I'm no nazi on it as to what constitutes a full tithe either. Sometimes it's more and sometimes it's less. YukonCornelius |
| Subject: | Same thing happened to my parents |
| Date: | Jan 25 23:18 |
| Author: | Wag |
| My parents always paid tithing first on every dime
they brought in. On the gross, of course. They also paid Fast Offerings
and paid into the ward budgets (when they still had them) and Missionary
funds and anything else the donation form said they could contribute. I
suspect they actually ended up donated 20% to 25% of their GROSS to the
Morg. That's a helluva lot. Needless to say, they were dirt poor all of their lives. Add to this load, the burden of raising 10 kids and you have a guaranteed formula for disaster. Naturally, my father was so destitute and so stressed by all this that he was constantly in search of the BBD (Bigger Better Deal) and toward the "end," he would change jobs about once a month, usually by quitting though sometimes by getting laid off. It was really sad to see my own father endure this crap and worse to know that he was doing it to himself. There was a while where it was so bad and he felt so guilty about it, he actually went to his bishop and gave up his temple recommend because he didn't feel "worthy" since he was not able to care for his own family. By this time, I was out of the household, but the family had been on church welfare non-stop for close to 10 years. Possibly more. How they kept using that system is beyond me. If I were a bishop, I would have cut them off after a short period of time but, whatever. At one point, Dad actually did get a really good job and during that time, he told me that he was paying 10% tithing and 10% fast offering just as a standard and that he was paying an additional 10% fast offering in order to, are you ready for this? . . Repay the church for the welfare the family had received. I was appalled. First of all, it sounded rather boastful and in my TBM mind at the time, I didn't feel it was appropriate to be boasting about such things. Secondly, I was mortified that Dad was giving THIRTY percent of his gross income to the church. He was working well at the time and being paid okay but it wasn't THAT much! Needless to say, he was right back in the poor house very shortly thereafter and, because of his lack of money around the house, he started after the BBD again and quit this job and several others for one scheme after another. It was very depressing to see him do that to himself and to his family. I lost confidence and respect for my father over that and sometimes I wonder if it wasn't a key factor in my leaving the church. I had been praying and praying and fasting and fasting over and over and fairly regularly and frequently, begging that God would resolve Dad's financial problems. Of course, no matter how much I prayed and did what I thought I should and no matter how much money my dad gave to the Morg, nothing ever came of it and he died, pretty much a pauper. So much for the blessings of tithing. --Wag-- |
| Subject: | OMG this is unreal (cussing) |
| Date: | Jan 25 23:47 |
| Author: | Mulan |
| You are only supposed to pay what you WOULD have
spent on food for fast offering and your dad paid 20% of his INCOME or
10% more that he WOULD have paid? Wag, I am hearing so many stories like
this that it makes me angry....I remember my sister with 5 kids living
in a shit hole in 100% Mormon town in remote Canada that the local
bishop sold these "stupid immigrants" because a GA was born
there and it increased the value!!! She stuck to that "stay at home
mom" shit while her husband ( a great guy truly) had a nervous
breakdown and couldn't support them. She raised chickens, turkeys, goats
and was the local dog catcher while her kids outgrew their clothes and
shoes and were horribly humiliated by their circumstances. They ended up
walking away from their house that was worth less than they owed even
after 17 years of payments! FINALLY she got a job learned the ropes and
she started her own business and they will be able to retire soon. She
could have done all this years ago and her kids wouldn't have suffered
and they truly suffered. No one in her family knew what was going on.
When my mother finally got here she threatened the mayor with dumpsters
of snow on HIS porch if he didn't get the ploughs to remove what was
flooding my sisters house and she told the Bishop he was an evil
dishonest man that had taken advantage of them when he sold them that
dump. She's a TBM but she basically cursed him in religious terms until
the air was blue. It was great. I heard my nieces voice telling me about
how she felt when I read your post and I have to ask "where was
your mother during all of this" was she powerless? I am so sorry
you had to live through all that. |
| Subject: | A truly disheartening exercise... |
| Date: | Jan 26 00:09 |
| Author: | Colonel Thomas Kane |
| The Colonel replies: For those who are looking near the barrel of retirement or have given a "full tithe" AND offerings for, say, twenty or more years, download the free (for ninety days) demo of Microsoft Money, and run through the retirement calculators to see where you would be if you had put the money in ANYTHING (preferable, vehicles that allow tax-free compounding). Make sure you do this while you are in a peaceful state of mind. You won't be, for long. Best wishes. |
| Subject: | Re: A truly disheartening exercise... |
| Date: | Jan 26 00:48 |
| Author: | Claire |
| I had this tbm friend who fell for the same crapola. They produced 9 kids in quick succession and paid full tithes which they could not afford but the hoped for blessings never came. Instead they lived a truly hellish existence. I wish I could say that was the only case I'm aware of but there are quite a few more. |
| Subject: | can I even tell you-- |
| Date: | Jan 26 00:25 |
| Author: | the dreaded single adult |
| I was working, right after college, at a child care
place for the (then current) minimum wage of $3.25/hr. *I PAID TITHING
ON IT--THEN HAD TO BABYSIT, CLEAN HOUSES, ETC., TO BE ABLE TO *EAT!!* My bishop called me in to let me know that I wasn't paying enough for fast offering and other offerings, in addition to my tithing. I'm sure I looked at him like a dying codfish--eyes bugged out, mouth hanging open--and I explained my income (or lack thereof). He wholeheartedly assured me that the more I paid, the more I would be blessed...(With what?, was what I wanted to know--more babysitting jobs? More houses to clean? Even less sleep than I was already getting? With those kinds of blessings, who needs curses???) |
| Subject: | Re: Tithing never brought my family Financial Blessings |
| Date: | Jan 26 06:22 |
| Author: | pretty amazed |
| it has been the same with my parents, they struggled their whole life, never had anything, but always believed their rewards would come later, I really hurt sometimes when I remember the way my parents did with out to give us kids what we needed, my father died with out ever knowing what it was like to not struggle, yet always they faithfully paid tithing and if someone gave them something they needed they would say, "see paying tithing does work" if that's the case then why didn't god bless them with some money in the first place. |
| Subject: | Re: Tithing never brought my family Financial Blessings |
| Date: | Jan 26 08:38 |
| Author: | hermanuno |
| Sounds so familiar. God gets his money, Mom gets all
her "necessities", and the kids are mooching from neighbors or
eating that crap from the church welfare program. The blessings? Don't you worry, they'll be here soon! Just keep up the good work and keep sending in your 10%! It didn't have to be like that but when the parents pick church over everything, anything and anybody else the result is almost predictable. All for a leech of a religion that claims families first and forever while actually doing all it can to ruin the family! Why am I the only one who has bailed out? After experiencing the life from hell sponsored by the church, why do my brothers and sisters still go for that shit? They are all TBM and full tithe payers. Yet I am the exmo heathen with a good life and they are "blessed" and living in hell? They just don't (won't) see it. |
| Subject: | If people invested for retirement instead of paying tithing... |
| Date: | Jan 26 20:50 |
| Author: | hr |
| they would have a very comfortable retirement. A lifetime of investing 10% at compound interest would make the average person worth a million dollars (plus) at retirement age. |
| Subject: | I struggle with this (one swear word, couldn't help it) |
| Date: | Jan 26 21:13 |
| Author: | Merilynn |
| My parents have given thousands and thousands of
dollars to the COJCOLDS over their lives. Now they're supposedly
retired, but my dad still works (teaches college) on an adjunct basis to
even have enough to be able to breathe a little. They could use a good
healthcare plan, but have one that sucks that they can afford and which
doesn't give them the medical attention they need. However, to ask them, they'd tell you how "blessed" they've been for paying tithing--like they'd be living in a boxcar if they hadn't. It's not even that they would have so much if they'd invested or saved that money instead or even the fact that if they took the money that's being extorted out of them now and bought a healthcare plan they'd be better off. What gets me is the fact that their fucking god doesn't bless them for all their years of sacrifice with at least enough so that they don't have to live in pain. |
| Subject: | Re: I struggle with this (one swear word, couldn't help it) |
| Date: | Jan 27 16:29 |
| Author: | whatiswanted? |
| I asked my mom once, WHERE ARE THE BLESSINGs?. She
said: You're breathing, you're eyesight, your hearing, etc. I couldn't understand why GOD would allow so much suffering. Now I realize, GOD has NOTHING to do with it. It is our own damn fault or my parent's fault. The LDS GOD is a GOD of conditions. He loves us only when we do what is right. BS. BS. BS. That is the LDS GOD. He loves us when we go to Sunday school and conference. Tithing is a scam. Always has been. Just needed to vent. |
| Subject: | Re: Tithing never brought my family Financial Blessings |
| Date: | Jan 27 16:47 |
| Author: | Rhema |
| I remember a sister who all of her married life wore used clothing given to her by her non-lds family and friends, so did the children. But they did not dare stop paying tithing. They still have nothing. Some people are slow learners. |
| Subject: | Paying tithing doesn't make you "worthy" of help |
| Date: | Feb 03 09:05 |
| Author: | Merilynn |
| My mother recently told me that the new bishop of
one of the wards in her town (not their ward) immediately "cleaned
up" when he became bishop and wasn't going to keep giving aid to
people who the old bishop and RS Pres. had just kept helping with food,
etc. He dropped most of them from any kind of church welfare. Well, first of all, how did my mother know this? I asked her and told her how much it bothers me that bishops are talking about this kind of stuff to people who have no business knowing. They don't have to know how many people or who in particular is on welfare, what the RS pres or past bishop were doing, etc. Secondly, why should anyone be proud of how many people they were able to quit helping instead of how many people they were able to help? That town has a lot of poor people in it. The mishies are pushed to baptize people--who are they going to baptize? So they baptize a bunch of people with problems (why else would they be interested in the Morg?) and then the bishops get mad because they're expected to help these people. So what if they have 100 people that they're helping. Isn't that what it's supposed to be about in the first place? Oh, don't get me going on the tithing thing. It just boils my blood how the corporation takes advantage of gullible people and keeps them consumed with fear of not being with their families in the hereafter if they don't give the corporation the shirts off their back, while the old geezer's club sits up in the ivory tower in SLC living in the lap of luxury off those poor people. Yes mom, keep praying...I'm going to return to the wonderful COJCOLDS any day now... NOT!!!!!! |
| Subject: | Re: Upsetting F&T meeting |
| Date: | Feb 03 10:13 |
| Author: | ronnieg |
| When I was a stake clerk in Chicago, we received a directive from the ivory tower that our stake was paying out more fast offerings than we were taking in and that all stakes were to "get in balance" I had to prepare a spreadsheet for each ward of their inflows and outflows. The stake president met with each bishop to go through the list and cull the deadbeats. The effect was to make the bishops afraid to do anything unless the sp approved. I understand it is not welfare, but there was no charity and it is conditionally and grudgingly given -- no matter how much you have given to them over the years. She would have been better off putting her tithes and offerings into a savings account. |
| Subject: | It sure does. |
| Date: | Feb 02 23:27 |
| Author: | Tia |
| A friend of mine was living in the midwest when her
ex-husband died suddenly. She was very close to him as their 16 yr. old
daughter was living with him & his current wife. My friend about
killed herself driving in winter conditions to get back to Utah for the
funeral. The deceased was the bread-winner; the current wife has medical
problems. So the birth mother went to their local bishop (all are
'inactive') for assistance. He told my friend he would help them out
when she gave up her cigarettes. When I last talked to my friend, she
was calling from a neighbor's to tell me their phone was cut & the
gas was off. The Mormon church is not Christian in rendering acts of
charity! Another time, this same friend was stranded & needed gas money to get home. She went to the first bishop she came across. He said he would get back to her. In the meantime, he called her bishop back home, called her brother & sister, then when she came back, he refused to help her. So she went to the Catholic Church. They asked no questions, did not even care if she was a member of their church! For people who are allegedly followers (in name only) of Christ where do these bishops get off, thinking they are greater than whom they profess to follow? When the woman was taken in adultery, Jesus did not judge her; he just told her to go & sin no more. oh; I keep forgetting - they are judges in Israel, making them above Jesus' law & example. |
| Subject: | The church teaches tithing is a spiritual act |
| Date: | Feb 03 01:05 |
| Author: | Tyler |
| Funny how something deemed spiritual is just money
going from a person to a billion dollar corporation. Sure doesn't seem
spiritual in that light. Why not tithe your time, your talents or your skills to the church? Why is building the kingdom of god only valid for the money given? What is saddest about those testimonies of financial aid after paying tithing is that the paying of tithing caused the necessity of needing a miracle in the first place. There is something very wrong with needing a spiritual miracle every month just to make it. That doesn't sound like a loving God, sounds more like a lording master controlling his slaves. My neighbor just had his older car repossessed on Saturday. He has no cars to go to work or to function. He pays tithing and is ultra LDS. His life is a shambles all thanks to his mormon beliefs and the wonderful blessing of tithing. Tyler |
Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church - www.exmormon.org |