| Subject: | Nephew killed himself after returning home from mission early for health reasons! |
| Date: | Jun 20 23:43 2003 |
| Author: | rm |
| Mail Address: |
| My nephew who was a straight A student in high
school, scored almost a perfect score on his ACT test, and had
aspirations to be a pediatrician someday shot himself in the head within
a year of returning home early from a mission to Russia. It all started with the pressure from his dad who was then a bishop and at the time of his death a stake president. He was always pushed to be the perfect student, perfect Priesthood holder and would serve an honorable mission, where nothing but excellence would be acceptable. Shortly into his mission he came down with illness and deep depression. He was over prescribed with large does of anti-depressants which eventually caused permanent damage to his brain. They continued to try and treat him on his mission but he kept getting worse. To come home early was almost unthinkable. He was finally forced to go home early, but by that time he was severely depressed and felt like a complete failure. He would not go out in public and spent long hours in the dark. When he spoke to others he would be shaking. They tried all kinds of anti-depressants, counseling and eventually shock therapy. Through this all he completely quit going to church and refused to participate in any of its activities. The day he killed himself his psychiatrist told him they had done all they could for him and that he had to start helping himself. They went home and within 5 minutes of being home he went in to his room and shot himself in the head with a large hunting rifle. The reason I share this story is because of all the pressure and guilt you see put on youth today to live up to the perfect Mormon mold. What I found ironic was how they handled the funeral. Because his dad was a Stake President they had a General Authority, who did not even know him, come and speak about everything but their son. Others spoke of how he was now doing what he wanted to do the most in his life serving his mission in the next life. I guess they forgot that he had quit going to church. Nobody talked about how fun loving he had been when he was younger and how sweet and kind he was before they robbed him of his youth. They just talked about church accomplishments and how they just know he is proselyting and fulfilling his life time ambition of a full and honorable mission free of illness. It makes me sick how they put such a spin on things. Nobody acknowledged the fact that the church leads many of its youth into suicide by making these young men feel like failures when they choose a different path or lifestyle. They threaten no financial support for college and marriages if they don't do their duty. Just last week another distant relative killed himself just shy of his 20th birthday. He had chosen to not go on a mission and had to deal with the lack of support from his family. How many others have seen the tragedies of suicide in their families due to the religious pressures? |
| Subject: | Almost every month I hear of somebody who's killed him/herself... |
| Date: | Jun 20 23:50 |
| Author: | kymba |
| Mail Address: |
| I NEVER heard so much of this before moving to Zion. Religious pressure is ridiculous - especially for young people who ALREADY have enough turmoil just trying to GROW UP AND BECOME AUTONOMOUS. How any being on earth can believe Mormonism is healthy to the mind and body is beyond me, but I hear of suicide attempts and suicide "successes" like they're just no big deal. I'm sad for your family - religion or not, this is horrible. |
| Subject: | suicide rate for young adults is higher in suburban SLC than big cities |
| Date: | Jun 20 23:54 |
| Author: | Isabel13 |
| Mail Address: |
| When I tell people this statistic, I ask their take
on the reason. Whether TBM or nonmormon, old or young, the reason
everyone comes up with is the pressure to be perfect and go on a mission
that young LDS adults experience. I can't find any sociological research
into why. I am so sorry for your families' loss. |
| Subject: | Re: Nephew killed himself after returning home from mission early for health reasons! |
| Date: | Jun 21 00:20 |
| Author: | chywon |
| Mail Address: |
| I had a good friend that did the same a few years ago. He was a very talented artist and just a lot of fun to be around. He had a cute smile, and a wonderful personality. He was caring and sensitive and had a great life ahead of him. But, he wasn't able to complete his mission and to him, this made him a failure. Just prior to doing it, he asked his sister a "Do you think Heavenly Father will still love me if I do something wrong?". It's tragic and there isn't a day that goes by that I don't miss my friend and feel bad that someone couldn't ease the torment he felt. There has to be a way to stop this madness!! |
| Subject: | Be proud of yourself... |
| Date: | Jun 21 00:26 |
| Author: | 5myuhs |
| Mail Address: |
| for seeing the light. How long ago did this happen? |
| Subject: | I don't understand how any mother or father.... |
| Date: | Jun 21 00:35 |
| Author: | Lara C |
| Mail Address: |
| ...could stay in the Morg after something like this happened to their child. What a devastating loss of life and potential. |
| Because they love their church more than their family. They covenant to this in the temple. |
| Subject: | Yes, and to rationalize it all... |
| Date: | Jun 21 00:45 |
| Author: | Kim |
| Mail Address: |
| ...the TBM family, friends, and church leaders say
that "he's in a better place." I want to go up to people who say that and grab them by the collar and shake them silly. |
| Subject: | Re: Nephew killed himself after returning home from mission early for health reasons! |
| Date: | Jun 21 00:37 |
| Author: | Wag |
| Mail Address: |
| My heart aches for you and your family. But mostly
for your nephew. This is one of the things which angers me the most
about the morg. --Wag-- |
| Subject: | The church likes to claim... |
| Date: | Jun 21 00:48 |
| Author: | Stray Mutt |
| Mail Address: |
| ...that young people who stay active in the church don't kill themselves. With their line of thinking, anyone who would kill themselves must not be active in the church. One guy gets sent home from a mission (must be something wrong with his testimony or he wouldn't get sick) and another guy doesn't want to go on a mission (if he had only gone he'd be alive today yadda yadda yadda). |
| Subject: | among Mormons, many of these suicides are gay men. |
| Date: | Jun 21 01:28 |
| Author: | KathyWUT |
| Mail Address: |
| I'm not saying that every suicide among them is gay,
only that a lot of them are. I hurt so bad every time I hear of one of
these guys killing themselves. Picture the guy as hetero and then
picture him as gay: which one do you think is going to feel the most
hopeless? Who is going to feel that he just CAN'T be what they want him
to be? Which one is going to feel the most disgusted with himself thanks
to the Mormon culture? How can we try to reach them? We try to be public about our lives, to get stories in the papers and on the news so they know we are out here. We try to get letters to the editor in the papers. Sad thing is, when a guy is gay, the family has often been led to believe the 'better dead than gay' thing. Even the guy often believes it. |
| Subject: | I am truly sorry for your loss. |
| Date: | Jun 21 01:38 |
| Author: | catinthehat |
| Mail Address: |
| I feel very grateful that I didn't have pressure
like that. None of my brothers went on missions, but my parents didn't
harp on them about it, one of the good things they did regarding church.
But they have all felt the stigma, and two of them live in Utah county,
and neither are married, and are 40+ years old. they told me many
stories of when they would go to the byu dances and the girls would feel
their arms to check for the underwear. That really sucks. I hope I
didn't do that too.... Many regrets. But I think for women, there is a more subtle pressure, that for me has brought me to that same level of despair that your nephew felt. I have also met many women especially, who have tried to kill themselves and failed. Their primary concern is how it will look to others. Not what brought them to that place in their lives. Marriage in the temple, a billion kids, stay at home or work, support the patriarch, OBEY the patriarch (although if you ask MY husband, that was definitely not an issue with me, I could care less what they said in the temple!!) Raising the kids to 'not make bad choices". I mean, hello. We live IN the world whether we like it or not. all that bullshit about in but no of, no difference. Anyway...I hope to God I never ever put that kind of pressure on my kid that he would feel that was the only way out. I've been there, and it's not pretty. I HATE MORMON FUNERALS!! Sorry, just a rant of experience. |
| Subject: | This makes me sick |
| Date: | Jun 21 01:42 |
| Author: | Adrienne |
| Mail Address: |
| Sorry about your loss. My ex had a friend who did his mission, the entire term but after coming home, he suffered from depression, eventually killing himself. I was shocked when my ex mentioned this, since I was unaware of RM's committing suicide. Now unfortunately, I realize it is a very common thing. |
| Subject: | So sorry for your loss |
| Date: | Jun 21 01:54 |
| Author: | Lisa |
| Mail Address: |
| One of my parents friends had a son who went on a
mission to Hawaii and came home early because of depression. When he got
home he went off his meds and killed himself. Very sad. Dad is an
institute teacher and I think the whole family put pressure on him to
go. I wish parents would let the kids choose for themselves whether or not to go on a mission. This pressure crap is ridiculous. |
| Subject: | The 'young adult age' is hard for everybody |
| Date: | Jun 21 02:14 |
| Author: | Violotron |
| Mail Address: |
| but especially difficult for those that don't meet
'expectations', however the person, them self, defines them. The
pressure on young people is immense, no matter what walk of life they
come from. However, extra pressure from a rigid religion (never good
enough, strive for perfection, confess, obey, etc.) can break a person. So sorry for this tragedy. |
| Subject: | Things like this need exposure |
| Date: | Jun 21 02:45 |
| Author: | AussieJohn |
| Mail Address: |
| Somebody in the heart of Zion with know-how should report this sort of thing to (maybe) The SL Tribune. What is needed is a KathyWUT for Mormon youth suicide. |
| Subject: | The SLC Weekly would take up this issue nt. |
| Subject: | That's Terrible |
| Date: | Jun 21 04:42 |
| Author: | Glass-Houses |
| Mail Address: |
| And I am so sorry to hear of the loss to your family
and the other families. Regarding making the story public: It was in an article in a national publication, TIME or NEWSWEEK, about a young gay Mormon man killing himself, that I first learned of the existence of garments. I also remember seeing a documentary on the terrible pressures put on people going on missions and the disgrace in which one young man was held because he couldn't learn Japanese. |
| Subject: | BROAD MESSAGE IN REPLY TO MISSIONARY COMING HOME EARLY |
| Date: | Jun 29 02:30 |
| Author: | solofire |
| Mail Address: | solo_fire@hotmail.com |
| Mainly in reply to the author that wrote about her
nephew coming home early from his mission, and then taking his life; I too came home early from my mission, due to depression. I unknowingly struggled with depression and anxiety before my mission, but as I entered the MTC, all the factors combined truly magnified my struggles. It was in the MTC, that I was labeled as being depressed. I struggled (battled) depression, for nine months and then returned home. I obeyed all the rules, I was worthy, I did not have a sexual identity crisis, i was not forced to go on a mission,in fact I wanted nothing more than to serve a mission, believing it was a true "calling"- yet I struggled with many of the ideas that I was supposed to be teaching, and the depression compounded the problem and convoluted my perspective on my faith, my life, and the world around me. Upon returning home,I was counseled by a Church psychotherapist- located within the ZCMI center adjacent to the church office building. My counselor in fact was a member of the "70". He told me at that time- (I had only been back in the country for 24 hours) That even though I had returned home, I would still be blessed, although not as much as someone who had served a full two years. I was released from my calling, and eventually had an "honorable" discharge. But- it turned my world upside down, I have never fully recovered. I sympathize with those unfortunate souls who have chosen to take their lives because of the circumstances that surround coming home early from a mission. The factors that are involved are mind boggling- socially, culturally, spiritually, and mentally. I came home almost seven years ago, I am innactive, and I am still trying to come to terms with what happened to me. I have gone back and forth with my beliefs and my experiences, and have tried to make sense of it all. Often times, I think that the whole experience has made me stronger, I have been down paths and emotional highways that "normal" two year completed missionaries cant even begin to fathom. I literally relate to nobody on this subject. I stumbled on this site by accident, and thought I would post a message to see who can relate to my experiences. I am not bitter, I still dont know what the real truth is, all I know is that being a missionary for 9 months out of my life has reshaped my life so far past the typical mormon experience that I can no longer identify with the church and its beliefs. Why I ask is this so...? Why should a missionary who is prepared to devote two precious years of youth to serving god and his purpose be burdened with shame, torment, and such horrendous difficulties in return for acting on his/her rock solid beliefs? My answer to my question I pose (for me) thus far in life- is that god wether the mormon god, or some other god used that experience to refine me into someone who thinks outside the "box". Can anyone relate? |
| Subject: | Severe Depression Re: IN REPLY TO MISSIONARY COMING HOME EARLY |
| Date: | Jun 29 03:26 |
| Author: | Lazarus |
| Mail Address: |
| Even though I did complete my two-year mission
honorably, I suffered from severe depression after I came home from the
mission field. Other circumstances helped to trigger my depression, but
it could not have come at a worst time in my life. It was the worst time
of my life, coming home after the mission, that is. I checked myself
into my college clinic, and I underwent light to moderate psychological
counseling and therapy for a couple of years. (1999-2001). Cognitive
dissonance is that powerful that it can actually debilitate you. I was
processing the two-years experience, and trying to come to terms with my
own doubts about the entire full-time mission experience. I entered the
MTC with great expectations, and with the hope of wonderful spiritual
experiences during my mission. Well, in reality, the two-year mission
experience was rather mute, disappointing, and not what the Brethren
cracked it up to be. My doubts about the inspiration of the leadership
was shaken when I saw less obedient and rather "jerk-like"
missionaries get called to positions of authority in the mission field
(District Leader, Zone Leader, AP, etc.) Anyway, since my doubts were not resolved (mainly the famous Blacks and the Priesthood issue, plus the annoyingly conservative stance of the LDS Church on a lot of important issues), I came to the final conclusion that the LDS Church is not led by revelation, and is just another man-made organization. The bad thing is that it claims divine authority. Now that's the main problem with the LDS Church. |
| Subject: | They try to make you believe that everything will be ok... |
| Date: | Jun 29 03:26 |
| Author: | Aphrodite |
| Mail Address: |
| as long as you obey, but the truth is that not
everyone takes well to the brainwashing that is a mission. You should
congratulate yourself on having a defense mechanism strong enough to
escape what is truly a cult experience. It's very sick that they would use their "psychotherapy" session to do further damage to you by suggesting that you "wouldn't be blessed as much" as someone who went through the full two-year brainwashing treatment. You might want to read cult expert Steve Hassan's behavior control model here: http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/articles/BITE.htm It might give you some perspective on the mission experience in general. I didn't "serve a mission" myself, since my "calling" as a female in Mormonism was to get married and start having babies young, but I hope some others here will relate to what it's like to come home early from a mission. |
| Subject: | Topper n/t |
| Date: | Jun 29 12:09 |
| Author: | topcat |
| Mail Address: |
| Subject: | This is why I'm opposed to the missionary program... |
| Date: | Jun 29 12:15 |
| Author: | kymba |
| Mail Address: |
| it doesn't seem to give any leeway for people who
don't "fit the mold", and it SHAMES them for having needs or
understandings which are different from the standard expected theme. I'm lucky to have a whole family full of nephews who WOULD NOT go on missions. I find the whole thing atrocious - sending young men out into a world they are insufficently prepared for, telling them they MUST succeed @ conversion is order to be considered really worthy, then forcing them upon a community of people who are minding their own business and don't WANT or NEED or ENJOY the intrusion. The church wonders why so many of its young men feel depressed. It's not too damned difficult to figure out, is it? I'm glad your experience was short, and as a nevermo, I will tell you - you succeeded QUITE WELL in taking care of YOURSELF and your own health/boundaries. You sound smart and healthy to me - keep learning, growing, and always remembering how important YOU are to yourself. |
| Subject: | I served a mission |
| Date: | Jun 29 13:19 |
| Author: | Ghost |
| Mail Address: |
| We had a wonderful mission president and great
missionaries who valued the sisters. Despite that kind of support, I
struggled with a great deal of depression as soon as I got into the
LTM(MTC). It was nothing like I had been told. I seriously considered
breaking my leg or something so I could excape with an excuse, but that
of course was only a coping fantasy. I was in a country where I was sexually harrased on the streets every single day. But that was nothing compared with the gender abuse the church headquarters rained down on the sister missionaries in the form of new programs that excluded us and made us feel as if we were invisible and unwanted. I feel for you because as a male in the church, not succeeding on a mission is the kiss of death. You're always a second-class citizen, right down there with the women. To be spreading "the gospel" and realizing that you're a salesperson for something that you begin to realize has alot of flaws, is mind-warping. Depression is the natural outcome of such a struggle. In my city alot of young men now come off of their missions early. I wonder if it is still such a stigma? At any rate, I took my children out of the church and am overjoyed that they will not have the mission experience. If, in the future they rejoin the morg, it will be after the missionary age and they will have an excuse for not having served. No stigma other than an exmo mother. Don't get me wrong, I had many great experiences on my mission. But the mental anguish was a killer. |
| Subject: | Interacting with your story and self-reflection ... |
| Date: | Jun 29 14:11 |
| Author: | windsong |
| Mail Address: |
| Solofire, I became very close to a few missionaries
(and knew many more) several years ago. I am not a Mormon, and perhaps
for that reason they felt a kind of freedom and safety with me that they
wouldn't have felt with someone "inside" the Mormon church. Out of my own life knowledge and my experience with Mormon young people (missionaries, in particular!), I would like to give my perspective on what you wrote. (Your words should appear in italics - if I don't mess up!) solofire wrote: I too came home early from my mission, due to depression. I unknowingly struggled with depression and anxiety before my mission, but as I entered the MTC, all the factors combined truly magnified my struggles. It was in the MTC, that I was labeled as being depressed. I have counselled a lot of people (young people,especially) with depression. It has been my observation that people who are very perceptive and sensitive often suffer from depression. Some people just "experience" life at a deep and intense level, that can make them prone to depression. And they often have much more intuitive "insight" into life than others. This may well be true of you. I struggled (battled) depression, for nine months and then returned home. I obeyed all the rules, I was worthy, I did not have a sexual identity crisis, i was not forced to go on a mission,in fact I wanted nothing more than to serve a mission, believing it was a true "calling"- yet I struggled with many of the ideas that I was supposed to be teaching, and the depression compounded the problem and convoluted my perspective on my faith, my life, and the world around me. Your words above that I "bolded" tell me that you are someone with a lot of sincerity, compassion and integrity. Therefore, it makes sense that you couldn't rationalize away anything you were learning at the MTC and on your mission, that didn't connect well with your own intuitive sense of what was true. Perhaps you were learning and hearing things that contradicted what you'd previously been told. A number of missionaries told me that they were learning a lot of things they hadn't known before their mission. Some of them shrugged off the inconsistencies and the "questionable" new knowledge. Others were profoundly disturbed. One sister missionary spent a lot of time crying, both with me and with an LDS therapist whom she saw every couple of weeks. In the end, she handled her "cognitive dissonance" or the contradictory knowledge in her head, by denying the "new" knowledge and repeatedly bearing her testimony. One elder was really conflicted. However, he stayed on his mission. Then when he gave his testimony in church the week before he went home, he got up and said that, while he came on his mission for the purest of motives, he had learned more than he taught, and he did not believe the Book of Mormon was true. He was discharged from his mission, but not honourably. At that point, he said he didn't care, that truth was more important to him than anything else. Re your LDS therapist: He told me at that time- (I had only been back in the country for 24 hours) That even though I had returned home, I would still be blessed, although not as much as someone who had served a full two years. I was released from my calling, and eventually had an "honorable" discharge. But- it turned my world upside down, I have never fully recovered. Solofire, I sincerely hope that you WILL fully recover! I trust that you will learn to understand that no person can pronounce your standing or destiny, as the LDS "member of the 70" therapist tried to do with you. You are free to be who you are, believe what you will, and find healing and freedom from the way in which your world crumbled around you. The factors that are involved are mind boggling- socially, culturally, spiritually, and mentally. I came home almost seven years ago, I am innactive, and I am still trying to come to terms with what happened to me. It does take time - sometimes a LOT of time - to find understanding and healing from the abuse and pain of the past. (I do see abuse in the way you were controlled and lied to regarding doctrine and destiny, and then patronized as being "blessed, altho in a lesser way".) I don't know just what your journey is, but I hope that you have trusted friends and/or advisors and counsellors who can help you on your way. I have gone back and forth with my beliefs and my experiences, and have tried to make sense of it all. Often times, I think that the whole experience has made me stronger, I have been down paths and emotional highways that "normal" two year completed missionaries cant even begin to fathom. I literally relate to nobody on this subject. I hope that you will hear from someone on this board who can relate to your experience. There are a lot of RM's here, and surely someone will be able to empathize with you in a deep way! I think you know that you are among friends. There are some wonderfully deep, sensitive, insightful and compassionate people here - as you've probably already discovered! ...all I know is that being a missionary for 9 months out of my life has reshaped my life so far past the typical mormon experience that I can no longer identify with the church and its beliefs. Why I ask is this so...? Why should a missionary who is prepared to devote two precious years of youth to serving god and his purpose be burdened with shame, torment, and such horrendous difficulties in return for acting on his/her rock solid beliefs? Try to look at those 9 months in a transformed way. Rather than focusing on the pain and (what should be non-existent) shame, see it as a gestational period. After nine months you gave birth to a new kind of truth, freedom and hope that you couldn't have gained had it not been for those nine months. And the truth, freedom and hope will continue to grow. It will take on more and more of a definitive shape and speak to you of its meaning as time goes on. We all need supportive and understanding people to help us make sense of our lives, and I trust that you'll find those people in real life, just as you've come to a good place here! My answer to my question I pose (for me) thus far in life- is that god wether the mormon god, or some other god used that experience to refine me into someone who thinks outside the "box". The more you hang out here, the more you'll see that being outside the Mormon "box" is good .... VERY good! |
| Subject: | The church crams a zillion lies down your throat... |
| Date: | Jun 29 14:30 |
| Author: | danboyle |
| Mail Address: |
| and then wonders why its members aren't "happy". Prozac usage in Utah is the highest in the nation, for a reason. The church teaches that if you don't "get it" ie: a testimony, burning feeling, desire to go to the temple etc etc, then the fault is YOURS. The morg is full of people putting on happy faces for everyone to see, while at the same time, they are miserable on the inside. No wonder the mormons are depressed, everything wrong in their lives is THEIR fault, and the church is "perfect". Living a lie is miserable, I've been there. And I'm never going back. What a sick cult. |
| Subject: | A mission is one of the most damaging things that can be done to a person... |
| Date: | Jun 29 14:39 |
| Author: | dimmesdale |
| Mail Address: |
| There are those, of course, who will dispute this
statement, but they may very well be the most damaged of all. Those who
look through the glass of mormonism when they are surveying the scene of
life. They are the ones who are sure they are right. They have all the
answers. Years later, they are the folks in the gospel doctrine classes
who can parrot back all the missionary scriptures and tell what they
mean within the context of the mormon culture. They never have any
questions because to question shows weakness. If they do happen to
entertain a question, they can immediately go to god for the answer. Don't they know that QUESTIONS are the seeds to progress, to satisfaction, to the enjoyment of life? The successful missionaries have their lives planned out for them. There really is no adventure. Only following the plan. The excitement of anything but perhaps not knowing which mission they'll serve in retirement is lost on them. Also damaged are those missionaries who dare to question or think. They have to stifle their active minds, pushing down all inquisitiveness and creativity. They have to convince themselves that what they dont'think is true, IS true. They HAVE TO DO IT! Otherwise they will fail. There is no alternative, and failure is not an alternative. The ONLY MiSSIONARIES who can make it through unscathed, are those who really don't take it seriously--those who mostly do what they want to, not really believing everything, not really caring what the president or anyone else says, just enjoying the adventure and the people and places they get to see. They may be the "slackers," but they are the only ones who won't be damaged. |
Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church - www.exmormon.org |