| Subject: | The Mormon Miracle of Angels (Better than Seagull Miracle!) |
| Date: | Apr 26 13:55 2003 |
| Author: | Deconstructor |
| There's no need to reply to this post or explain it in any way.
Since you seemed inspired by the "Miracle of Seagulls" story, I thought you
might like the "Miracle of the Angel and Sword" stories too. (This
was originally written for a Mormon who was trying to defend the truthfullness of the
Mormon Church by writing abut the "Seagull Miracle".) Here are some first-person testimonies of miraculous angelic visitations just like the "First Vision" and angel Moroni stories which also come from church history: "The same God that has thus far dictated me and directed me and strengthened me in this work, gave me this revelation and commandment on celestial and plural marriage, and the same God commanded me to obey it. He said to me that unless I accepted it, and introduced it, and practiced it, I, together with my people would be damned and cut off from this time henceforth. We have got to observe it. It is an eternal principle and was given by way of commandment and not by way of instruction." - Prophet Joseph Smith, Contributor, Vol. 5, p. 259 "When that principle was revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith ... he did not falter, although it was not until an angel of God, with a drawn sword, stood before him; and commanded that he should enter into the practice of that principle, or he should be utterly destroyed, or rejected, that he moved forward to reveal and establish that doctrine." - Prophet Joseph F. Smith, "Plural Marriage for the Righteous Only-Obedience Imperative-Blessings Resulting", Journal of Discourses, Vol.20, p.28 - p.29 "I know whereon I stand, I know what I believe, I know what I know and I know what I testify to you is the living truth. As I expect to meet it at the bar of the eternal Jehovah, it is true. And when you stand before the bar you will know. He preached polygamy and he not only preached it, but he practiced it. I am a living witness to it. It was given to him before he gave it to the Church. An angel came to him and the last time he came with a drawn sword in his hand and told Joseph if he did not go into that principle, he would slay him." - Sister Mary Lightner, Address to Brigham Young University, April 14th, 1905, BYU Archives and Manuscripts See: http://www.ldshistory.net/pc/merlbyu.htm "His brother, Hyrum, said to me, "Now, Brother Benjamin, you know that Brother Joseph would not sanction this if it was not from the Lord. The Lord revealed this to Brother Joseph long ago, and he put it off until the Angel of the Lord came to him with a drawn sword and told him that he would be slain if he did not go forth and fulfill the law." He told my sister to have no fears, and he there and then sealed my sister, Almira, to the Prophet." "Soon after this he was at my house again, where he occupied my Sister Almira's room and bed, and also asked me for my youngest sister, Esther M. I told him she was promised in marriage to my wife's brother. He said, "Well, let them marry, for it will all come right."" - Elder Benjamin F. Johnson, My Life's Review See: http://mormonlore.freeservers.com/johnson1.htm "He there and then explained to me the doctrine of plurality of wives; he said that the Lord had revealed it unto him, and commanded him to have women sealed to him as wives; that he foresaw the trouble that would follow, and sought to turn away from the commandment; that an angel from heaven then appeared before him with a drawn sword, threatening him with destruction unless he went forward and obey the commandment." "He further said that my sister, Eliza R. Snow, had been sealed to him as his wife for time and eternity. He told me that the Lord would open the way, and I should have women sealed to me as wives. This conversation was prolonged, I think, one hour or more, in which he told me many important things." "I solemnly declare before God and holy angels, and as I hope to come forth in the morning of the resurrection, that the above statement is true." - Prophet Lorenzo R. Snow, sworn affadavidt. See: http://www.mormons.org.uk/celest.htm "19 year-old Zina remained conflicted until a day in October, apparently, when Joseph sent [her older brother] Dimick to her with a message: an angel with a drawn sword had stood over Smith and told him that if he did not establish polygamy, he would lose "his position and his life." Zina, faced with the responsibility for his position as prophet, and even perhaps his life, finally acquiesced." (In Sacred Loneliness, page 80-81) "An Angel of God Stood by him (Joseph Smith) with a drawn Sword and told him he should be slain & Cut off from the Earth and the kingdom of God if he did not obey that Law (of polygamy). George Q Cannon was of the same opinion, that a man must have more then one wife at a time in order to obey that Law." - Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Wilford Woordruff's Journal, Vol. 8, p.235 |
| Subject: | Taking The Lord's name in vain |
| Date: | Apr 26 14:02 |
| Author: | Søvnløsener - Insomniac |
| is when person A tells person B then god came to person A and told person A to tell person B that person B needs to do something for person A. |
| Subject: | But that's how Mormonism works! |
| Date: | Apr 26 14:08 |
| Author: | Deconstructor |
| Without Person A (amateur Bishop, Stake Presdident or other
penishood leader) speaking for God and telling person B what to do, then how would the
Mormon church be able to function? That's what church callings are all about. That's what penishood blessings are all about. That's what General Conference is all about. The very heart, soul and foundation of the Mormon Church is that the leaders are called of God to speak His will. They are the only ones who have that authority, and no one has it more than the prophet at the top of the pyramid. What would Mormonism be like if they never took the Lord's name in vain? |
| Subject: | So do these angels take heavenly fencing lessons or what? |
| Date: | Apr 26 23:05 |
| Author: | Dagny |
| Just to make the story -oh so extra- scary, the sword is always
described as a DRAWN sword. (Like an angel with a sword in a shield wouldn't be convincing
enough.) I wonder if the angels have special sword covers to make travel more convenient as they pass up and down through the atmosphere. I wonder if there is a sword factory in heaven. They probably have a heavenly trumpet stash too for the angels who prefer to blow horns. I hope the angel's gown was flame proof, because I imagine the metal gets pretty hot traveling through the atmosphere. The swords probably glow during reentry, and this of course explains many of the UFO mysteries. ;-) Maybe this solves the question of all the swords that seem to be missing from the BoM story. The angels maybe took the swords up to heaven when the Nephites and Lamanites were done with them to the sword stash in heaven so they can be used to threaten prophets if they don't obey the order to boink teenagers. If an angel showed up in my room "from heaven" and was floating around threatening me, he wouldn't need a sword to have me take notice. Why would the angel who obviously has all sorts of supernatural powers need an old fashioned sword anyway? Seriously, I'm shocked my ancestors were so credulous they bought such an obviously bogus story. A sucker is born every minute folks, and they will believe in angels with swords and hand over their daughter. Amazing. Thanks, Deconstructor, for the great posts you share here. |
| Subject: | It was a *flaming* sword (references) |
| Date: | Apr 26 23:36 |
| Author: | bat |
| A grand and glorious principle had been revealed, and for years had
slumbered in the breast of God's Prophet, awaiting the time when, with safety to himself
and the Church, it might be confided to the sacred keeping of a chosen few. That time had
now come. [b]An angel with a flaming sword descended from the courts of glory and,
confronting the Prophet, commanded him in the name of the Lord to establish the principle
so long concealed from the knowledge of the Saints and of the world—that of plural
marriage.[/b](Orson F. Whitney, Life of Heber C. Kimball [Salt Lake City: Kimball Family,
1888], 321.) While it was a great trial for Mercy to enter into plural marriage, it was even a greater trial for Mary to consent to it. Truly, it was the most difficult thing both ever had to do. It was equally difficult for Hyrum. The principle of plural marriage was given as early as 1831. Joseph Smith had inquired of God to know and understand wherein He justified His prophets of old as touching upon the principle and doctrine of their having plural wives and concubines. The principle was then revealed by the Lord to Joseph. fn He was commanded to obey it. He did not immediately comply. [b]Then, according to Apostle George A. Smith, an angel with a flaming sword appeared to the Prophet Joseph and warned him that unless he obeyed it, he would be destroyed.[/b] (Don Cecil Corbett, Mary Fielding Smith, Daughter of Britain: Portrait of Courage [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1966], 154.) A grand and glorious principle had been revealed, and for years had slumbered in the breast of God's Prophet, awaiting the time when, with safety to himself and the Church, it might be confided to the sacred keeping of a chosen few. That time had now come. [b]An angel with a flaming sword descended from the courts of glory and, confronting the Prophet, commanded him in the name of the Lord to establish the principle so long concealed from the knowledge of the Saints and of the world-that of plural marriage.[/b](H. Dean Garrett, ed., Regional Studies in Latter-day Saint History: Illinois [Provo: Department of Church History and Doctrine, 1995], 135.) |
| Subject: | What a miracle! Thanks for the recent references! n/t |
| Subject: | Sigmund Freud would have a field day with that "flaming sword" symbolism. n/t |
| Subject: | If this was from God please explain |
| Date: | Apr 28 16:42 |
| Author: | Secular Priest |
| just before JS death he told his wife he would denounce pluarl marriage, destroy the revelation, etc. This does not make sense because if this revelation was from God was not JS turning from God at that point? |
| Subject: | Bingo! |
| Date: | Apr 28 22:21 |
| Author: | Deconstructor |
| just before JS death he told his wife he would denounce plural
marriage, destroy the revelation, etc. This does not make sense because if this revelation
was from God was not JS turning from God at that point? Joseph Smith did in fact denounce polygamy and burned the revelation. Only his secretary (who had many wives) had another copy! Lucky for him, and the other polygamists like Brigham Young. This became a real issue after Smith's death. Part of the church membership recognized polygamy was wrong and wanted to move on without it in the church. Another group, led my Brigham Young, were polygamists (secretly) and wanted to keep it in the church. No wonder Brigham Young declared that Smith lost the spirit the last few days of his life (when he burned the revelation). But this whole fiasco begs an even bigger question. If polygamy was such a big deal that God would send his angels to threaten Joseph Smith, why didn't those same angels protect Smith? And why didn't the Lord bless the Saints in Utah so they could continue with the practice? The whole thing stinks of fraud, just like the church itself. |
Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org |