Elder Ballard's April 2003 Conference Talk and the Decline of Mormonism

Subject:	Elder Ballard's April 2003 Conference Talk
Date:	Apr 19 14:11 2003
Author:	Mojo Jojo

I don't know how many of you caught Elder Ballard's conference talk two Sunday's ago. Unfortunately, I did. In a strange sort of way, I found his talk fascinating, both because of outlandish statements made, and what it reveals (or doesn't reveal) about the innerworkings of the LDS braintrust.

His talk was on missionary work, full of pro forma exhortations to the faithful to get out and recruit their family, friends, associates into the glorious gospel. The other theme, typically, was the explicit and implicit accusation that the faithful weren't doing enough. Yada, yada, yada. Heard it all before. Nothing new here.

But, what struck me were the statements he made (and I paraphrase): "We are not marketing a product." "We are not selling anything." "We are not trying to impress anyone with our growth numbers." These statements struck me because I know from first-hand experience that they are patently false. I thought to myself, "This must be news for all of the marketing consultants the church has hired."

I know for a fact that the church works closely with marketing consultants crafting media messages. The "glorious message of the gospel" is marketed no or little differently than Proctor & Gamble markets Charmin toilet tissue. The same practices and principles apply: focus group research, survey research, branding, brand awareness, market positioning, etc. I can tell you from first hand knowledge, that strategic decisions are made NOT by inspiration or revelation from God to his chosen, but in close consultation with marketing experts and consultants.

Changes to the temple cermony and missionary discussions, for example, were made on the basis of extensive market research using the same tools used by marketers all over the world.

Just who the hell does Ballard think he's kidding? (Well, I'd guess that majority of the rank and file who actually think that that Jesus is calling the shots.)

The other thing that struck me was that the church's strange marketing strategy. I mean, here's an organization that has expanded too fast and is experiencing flat or declining sales and market share and with an extremely high customer desertion rate that continues to focus on growth above all else. There appears to be little evidence that the church is trying to take any strategic measures to increase customer retention, which would probably require a moderate to significant scaling back of expansion, and a greater focus on customer satisfaction. No corporation could survive in the longterm with a 75% customer desertion rate. The church has survived as it has and given off the appearance of vitality, because it has managed to "churn" its customer base up to this point; that is, to add new customers at a faster rate than it lost customers. This does not seem to be the case anymore, and in any case, churning is not a strategy conducive to long-term institutional vitality.

My guess is that were the marketing consultants hired by the church not syncophants to the bretheren, they would strongly advise the church to scale back, "focus on its core business", and move customer satisfaction to the top of its strategic priorities. Ballard's talk gives no indication that such a change in strategy is underway or imminent.

Finally, Ballard's assertion that numbers don't matter is laughable. After all, the LDS church is the "stone cut out of the mountain rolling foward to fill the earth" (a la Daniel in the Old Testament). For years, the church has argued or hinted that its high growth rate ("the fastest in the world")was the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy. Its high growth rate, moreover, served as "social proof," to thousands of faithful ("the church must be true, why look at how fast it's growing--the fastest in the world") to buttress up their own insecurities or to crow to the rest of the world. The church now can hardly admit that not only is not the "stone filling the earth," it isn't even a frigg'n pebble.

Perhaps Ballard's talk is harginger of a de-emphasis among the brethern of church growth as fulfillment of prophecy and/or social proof. But if theories on this board about an impending "implosion" are true, Ballard's talk does not hint that the Bretheren are factoring this possibility into their marketing strategy.

(Now, I concede that the "raising the bar" for missionaries may be part of a conscious strategy to scale back. A face saving way to explain stagnating growth and abysmal retention rates. But, I'm on the record predicting that the "raising the bar," will not be enforced rigorously at the field level, or will only be enforced for a short period, at which point, tradition, inertia, and the absolute, overwhelming imperative to grow will kick in again. In any case, I am skeptical that it will have much of an effect.)

Subject:	Great analysis; some thoughts....
Date:	Apr 19 15:09
Author:	Colonel Thomas Kane

Mojo Jojo wrote:
*SMIP)*
> But, what struck me were the statements he made (and I paraphrase): "We are not marketing a product." "We are not selling anything." "We are not trying to impress anyone with our growth numbers." These statements struck me because I know from first-hand experience that they are patently false. I thought to myself, "This must be news for all of the marketing consultants the church has hired."
*(SNIP)*
> Just who the hell does Ballard think he's kidding? (Well, I'd guess that majority of the rank and file who actually think that that Jesus is calling the shots.)

The Colonel replies:
The Church's reliance of internal feedback loops is one of its great organizational flaws; they look into the mirror of what their members tell them (when they are asked), and pride themselves on doing a wonderful job.

Remember, the Church relies of social proof to an incredible degree; eventually, the membership, looking internally, convinces one another that, "I KNOW the Gospel is true."

This is group hypnosis; they don't even know what "the Gospel" is, nor do they care, as long as the Inspired Leaderhip is keeping everything moving along.

Confusing membership "churn" with membership "growth," is a great summary of one of their institutional blindnesses.

Mojo Jojo wrote:
> The other thing that struck me was that the church's strange marketing strategy. I mean, here's an organization that has expanded too fast and is experiencing flat or declining sales and market share and with an extremely high customer desertion rate that continues to focus on growth above all else. There appears to be little evidence that the church is trying to take any strategic measures to increase customer retention, which would probably require a moderate to significant scaling back of expansion, and a greater focus on customer satisfaction.
*(SNIP)*

The Colonel replies:
Two factors seem to be at work here; one, the subtle factor that "retention" is not really an issue any more, and two, the only customers whose "satisfaction" matters are the solid tithers with active temple recommends.

"Retention" was never really an issue; someone on this board pointed out that, sometime back, Hinckley gave the word that he wanted ten million "members" by 2000.

He got it.

The hidden cost was the formation of thousands of "paper stakes," stakes with membeship that existed only on paper.

That seems to be the big factor behind General Conference's new focus of "If you want to leave, now would be an excellent time." Holland and Oaks went to the Chile and Philippines Areas, respectively, and discovered that all of the "growth" reported back, was simply not there.

Today, with almost half a million members in each Area, one temple remains more than adequate for their needs.

Not enough solid tithers, with active recommends - the foundation and core of the Church - in either area.

Mojo Jojo wrote:
> My guess is that were the marketing consultants hired by the church not syncophants to the bretheren, they would strongly advise the church to scale back, "focus on its core business", and move customer satisfaction to the top of its strategic priorities. Ballard's talk gives no indication that such a change in strategy is underway or imminent.

The Colonel replies:
There might be more to what you say than you realize.

The Church is "focus(ing) on its core business" - the active membership in the United States, and, in particular, the descendants of the "Trek of '47."

It just might be that COB has looked at Hinckley's grand plans for Empire, and finally took the checkbook away from Ol' Grandpa.

We suspect COB is aware that the duty of the Mormon Church is to align itself with what Mormonism has become, and stop wasting time and money trying to sell the product to people who can not afford the purchase price, much less the HIGH maintenance costs.

Mojo Jojo wrote:
> Finally, Ballard's assertion that numbers don't matter is laughable. *(SNIP)*

The Colonel replies:
Totally true; remember, the numbers used to matter so much that they were disclosed in the Conference Reports of the Ensign - numbers that included income, number of Priesthood holder, number of High Priests, number and type to temple work, and others.

Now, they matter so much, that they are more important than the members; indeed, they are not even disclosed to the members....

Mojo Jojo wrote:
> Perhaps Ballard's talk is harginger of a de-emphasis among the brethern of church growth as fulfillment of prophecy and/or social proof. But if theories on this board about an impending "implosion" are true, Ballard's talk does not hint that the Bretheren are factoring this possibility into their marketing strategy.

The Colonel replies:
Ballard doesn't; nobody dares do so, while Hinckley has the power.

The problem is, COB knows where the growth was, is, and will be.

Faust, Packer and Monson know the truth; "growth," meaning profitable and sustainable growth, outside the Mormon Corridor, is limited only to the descendants of the "Trek of '47."

Mojo Jojo wrote:
> (Now, I concede that the "raising the bar" for missionaries may be part of a conscious strategy to scale back. A face saving way to explain stagnating growth and abysmal retention rates. But, I'm on the record predicting that the "raising the bar," will not be enforced rigorously at the field level, or will only be enforced for a short period, at which point, tradition, inertia, and the absolute, overwhelming imperative to grow will kick in again. In any case, I am skeptical that it will have much of an effect.)

The Colonel replies:
"Raising the bar" is the opening theme in a larger Plan.

This, in part, is a rationalization for the smaller number of full-time missionaries they will be reporting, as that demographic cohort is beginning to shrink NOW.

"Raising the bar" was initiated at a satellite Priesthood meeting, with Packer laying down the law.

"Raising the bar" for full-time missionaries is only the beginning.

Wards and stakes will face quotas of temple active Priesthood holders, and High Priests, and tithes AND offerings.

If they don't hit the mark - and a great many will not, as we all know - then stakes will merge, wards will merge, and some - many, particularly in the poorer areas - will become branches.

This will mask the rapid Consolidation planned by Monson, and totally supported, we believe, by Packer and Faust.

COB, and the FP/Qo12, are STUNNED at how quickly tithing has fallen off since 2000; many informed watchers were amazed that Hinckley took time at General Conference to explain that the Crossroads Mall acquistion will not require the Church to borrow money.

HELL!

Everyone thought that was a GIVEN!

THAT really shocked some people, too, and a lot of people are wondering how bad the truth really is.

The formal annoucement of the beginning of decline - negative stake growth - is the foreshadowing of the "raising the bar" program, in which all we be told that "they didn't meet their spiritual covenants, and they are no longer receiving the blessings of the Restoration."

Holland is WAITING to give THAT speech.

COB knows that all growth is internal; their great fear is the loss of a generation of American mormons whose children refuse to go along with the game.

Thus, when Packer went on about how too many Young Women were not joining the Relief Society, many saw the handwriting on the wall....

A society without women has one generation to go!

Best wishes.

Subject:	Re: Great analysis; some thoughts....
Date:	Apr 19 18:52
Author:	Zia

Colonel, first of all, I want to tell you, I love reading your posts. You always have insights that really make me think and ponder. God, I hate the word ponder because of church.

Anyway, I caught a glimpse of what the church would be like when all those who are disaffected leave and when no new members are joining. It would be this small group of inbreds, paranoid of the outside world, women with too many babies and too many sister-wives. If we think their beliefs are wacked out, way out there now, just wait and see what it could be like in a generation or two. People will be afraid to join.

I have known people when I went to church that really thought so highly of themselves because they were born and bred in the church, and they looked down on converts as if they were pariahs. Now, it seems, converts are getting it from the pulpits. Message from God: he would prefer it if you converts would leave now.

Subject:	Thank you! A quick comment....
Date:	Apr 19 19:43
Author:	Colonel Thomas Kane

Zia wrote:
> Colonel, first of all, I want to tell you, I love reading your posts. You always have insights that really make me think and ponder. God, I hate the word ponder because of church.

The Colonel replies:
Thank you!

Zia wrote:
> Anyway, I caught a glimpse of what the church would be like when all those who are disaffected leave and when no new members are joining. It would be this small group of inbreds, paranoid of the outside world, women with too many babies and too many sister-wives. If we think their beliefs are wacked out, way out there now, just wait and see what it could be like in a generation or two. People will be a fraid to join.

The Colonel replies:
This is what happened with all of the Fundamentalist splinter Churches; inbreeding - of all kinds, intellectual, spirtual, emotional, and physical - and an increased willingness to "turn within" in the face of a world that is changing faster than they can imagine.

So they retreat, further Within the Illusion of Fundamental Mormonism....

Zia wrote;
> I have known people when I went to church that really thought so highly of themselves because they were born and bred in the church, and they looked down on converts as if they were pariahs. Now, it seems, converts are getting it from the pulpits. Message from God: he would prefer it if you converts would leave now.

The Colonel replies:
Let's be honest - COB wants all of the converts, save those who are at least upper middle class Americans, gone - nobody else can meet the financial and personal demands - particularly the financial demands - of the Mormon Church.

Indeed, that might be a factor in why the Young Women are refusing the join the Relief Society; they are too busy working to better themselves to invest time in that organization.

That's why Grant Palmer's new book is so fascinating; listing his Church credentials (including his still active calling as, if memory serves, the President of a High Priest's Quorum), gives him the credibility to begin a Reformation of the Mormon Church, away from the mythic fantasies of Joseph Smith, and his several First Visions, and into a Church that meets the needs of the next generation of Mormons where they are.

Which is where Mormonism is; the Church has to catch up...

Best wishes.

Subject:	Colonel, do you have a mole at the COB?
Date:	Apr 20 00:03
Author:	Sophia

I can make some pretty well-educated guesses about what GAs are thinking based on their public speeches and the way they change policies (like "raising the bar"). But what I really don't know is what the mid-level managers in the COB think. I've heard anecdotally that there is major disillusionment among COB workers, even though they have to keep up appearances. Also, do you have have any particular insight into Tommy and Jimmy (Monson and Faust), other than analyzing what they say?

Subject:	An answer...
Date:	Apr 20 01:02
Author:	Colonel Thomas Kane

Sophia wrote:
> I can make some pretty well-educated guesses about what GAs are thinking based on their public speeches and the way they change policies (like "raising the bar"). But what I really don't know is what the mid-level managers in the COB think. I've heard anecdotally that there is major disillusionment among COB workers, even though they have to keep up appearances.

The Colonel replies:
COB workers, while incredibly compartmentalized - this organization has TIGHT compartmentalization of information -also have lives, and let little things "slip" to close family.

And, in Salt Lake, everyone that matters knows everyone else that matters...

It's gossip central, working as much by omission as comission; husband comes home, looks very worried, and says to wife, "People in X are saying one thing to us, and the truth is somewhere else. So and So is really working us like dogs trying to get to the truth of the matter, and he does not like what we are seeing."

That's where the phrase "paper stakes" came from.

COB is a microcom of the Mormon world; all approval is conditional, and any decision can be delayed, indefinitely, until The Brethren say so.

So, a LOT of people in COB live on pins and needles.

And their wives know it, and talk with their friends, "Husband is really looking worried these days; he says he just can't talk about it, of course, but Susan's husband deals with the same Area for Y, and she says her husband just comes home, and is so tense, he snaps at the kids, and he just can't relax."

Word gets around.

So, when The Inspired Prophet sends a GA to an entire Area, like, say, just as a pure hypothetical, Chile or the Philippines, a LOT of wires are humming....

What really got a lot of people talking, incidentally, was Hinckley's opening remarks about the Crossroads Mall purchase, and the Church not going into debt, in the same paragraph.

The Church is in several lines of business; a major line of business is commercial real estate development.

The two things that inhale money, and leave nothing in their wake, are the stock market, and commercial real estate.

A lot of people understand commercial real estate, and know the game for developing it, including the hidden agendas.

Bluntly, the Church should be able to make the Crossroads Mall deal work out of petty cash; if they have to even consider going into debt for THAT, then we have trouble.

That the Seer, Prophet and Revelator has to mention this right off the bat at General Conference means a lot of people have been reading the entrails, and they only support one conclusion - cash crunch.

Sophia wrote:
Also, do you have have any particular insight into Tommy and Jimmy (Monson and Faust), other than analyzing what they say?

The Colonel replies:
Other than watching what they do, and looking for the incongruities, no.

One point about Monson.

Better than anyone, he understands that all of the money comes from the heirs of the "Trek of '47."

He understands that the elderly people of the Wasatch - let's not mince words - are the only ones who believe in the literal historicity of the Book of Mormon, and both have and will support the Church actively, placing it in their wills.

He makes a great point of speaking to them - stories about Young Monson, Old Blind Miss Hattie and The Chicken, the sinking of the Indianapolis during WW II, the radio show, "Jack Armstrong The All-American Boy" - all are designed to touch the hearts of the Wasatch elderly.

So far as they are concerned, they, their ancestors and their descendants, are the only real Mormons.

For twenty years Monson has been holding his breath, making sure there was money for construction of Gordon's Empire.

They squeaked by the "100 by 2000" temple building campaign thanks to donated appreciated stock, and generous members.

You know what's happened to stock values - NASDAQ is almost a penny stock exchange - and what has happened to tech incomes.

The rest is history.

Best wishes.

Subject:	Colonel: Your comments about the inner workings of the Church
Date:	Apr 20 22:26
Author:	Background check

are often presented with aplomb. Your comments also seem to lack any documentation or reliable supporting sources. Are your 'theories' concerning the Church's future and inner workings the way you imagine things, or are they based on some inside track?
I'm not saying you're wrong, only that you seem to present things in such a 'matter of fact' manner without giving any solid basis or background as to why you believe as you do. Perhaps you have done so in the past, so therefore I'm not aware of sources or 'inside' information cited by you.

Subject:	What? Some comments about your comments....
Date:	Apr 20 23:25
Author:	Colonel Thomas Kane

Background check wrote:
> are often presented with aplomb. Your comments also seem to lack any documentation or reliable supporting sources. Are your 'theories' concerning the Church's future and inner workings the way you imagine things, or are they based on some inside track?

The Colonel replies:
If The Colonel said "Yes" to the "some inside track" option, then all involved may rest assured that Church Security would be very busy, and innocent people would be placed under more pressure than they deserve, for reasons they don't deserve.

If The Colonel said "No" to the "some inside track" option, nobody would believe him.

Think about it.

"Say, Mr. Kent! Nobody has ever seen you and Superman in the same place at the same time! Mr. Kent! Are you Superman?"

Background check wrote:
> I'm not saying you're wrong, only that you seem to present things in such a 'matter of fact' manner without giving any solid basis or background as to why you believe as you do. Perhaps you have done so in the past, so therefore I'm not aware of sources or 'inside' information cited by you.

The Colonel replies:
There is a slight irony in your comments.

"The Implosion Hypothesis" came out in December of 2000, and seems remarkably prescient in its analysis; later versions have only supported this belief.

Indeed, ON THIS VERY BOARD, The Colonel has been accused of being an employee within COB.

However, ironically, you believe The Colonel "....seem(s) to present things in such a 'matter of fact' manner without giving any solid basis or background as to why you believe as you do."

Perhaps you can explain why the General Authorities do the same, so often, and with such graceful aplomb, often stopping only to refer mysteriously to "The Brethren," and "The Unwritten Order of Things."

What "solid basis or background" do they have?

Precious little, from the looks of things.

Of course, The Colonel may be wrong.

All it takes is for the FP/Qo12/1stQo70 to order COB to open the books, particularly the financial summaries; they could start by making copies of their tax filings available on the Internet.

That would certainly provide a "solid basis" AND "background" for a lot of interesting discussions!

Discussions, incidentally, that would support "The Implosion Hypothesis."

Best wishes.

Subject:	Thanks for a great thread. The decline of the Mormon Empire
Date:	Apr 19 15:26
Author:	StationaryTraveler

is a great movie, no?

I wonder how long the show will go on or if it will ever end?

The frantic efforts of the elite to fevereshly maintain some sort of balance is hilarious to watch. When you do a close-up on their foreheads, you don't have to look very hard, you will notice that their heads are covered with little beads of nerve-racking sweat.

This is great!!

Subject:	Not entirely correct
Date:	Apr 19 18:40
Author:	SLDrone

Mojo, I like your analysis, however I have some more data to pour into the mill.

You stated, "There appears to be little evidence that the church is trying to take any strategic measures to increase customer retention,..."

That is in fact incorrect. In the mid 90's Hinckley became increasingly alarmed (even angered) by the poor retention numbers of the newly baptized. At the mission president training seminar held each summer at the MTC in Provo, Hinkley rolled out a new emphasis on retention, charging the mission presidents with focusing a renewed effort on retention. In that and in subsequent mission president trainings he has stated "to you presidents I say, retention in not the problem of the members." And then while punching his finger in the air for emphasis, "it is YOUR problem". In 1998 or 99 Hinckley satelite broadcasted a closed meeting to all church leadership in which he strongly emphasized retention. In that meeting he rolled out his program detailing that all new members needed "a friend in the Church, a calling in the Church, and the nourishing word of God". He also stated in that broadcast "if we baptize someone and fail to retain them we have done them no good, in fact we have done them a great disservice".

During the time I served as a mission president I frequently received memos from the missionary department and edicts from Boyd K reminding me of my duty to retain newly baptized members. In fact, nearly half of my "sales force" was employed in the reactivation of inactive members. There was a significant relaxing of pressure on mission presidents to baptize "at all costs" during this same period. Note that I stated the pressure was relaxed, however it was not entirely abandoned. It is VERY interesting to note that at about the same time the retention program was rolled out the overall baptism rate declined. The fact is that during the hay day baptisms of the 80's and early 90's, there was phenominal pressure placed upon mission presidents and subsequently on the missionaries to baptize, baptize baptize. This of course led to rediculous farsical, fabricated, and bribed baptisms with the easily predictable failure to retain. Those practices have all but vanished, showing that the growth during that period was a sham.

Subject:	There is a lot of lip service to the notion of "retention" however, with the Internet
Date:	Apr 19 18:57
Author:	SusieQ#1

providing so much information, the new members often leave before they are "fellowshipped."

It is my observation that the "fellowshipping" does not begin until the leaders notice they are loosing someone then they throw out the life raft like they think someone is drowning and have to be saved.

Also, I have noticed that there is too little too late with the Mormon Church. They do not move fast enough to solve their mounting problems. They seem to be running about 20 years behind!

Subject:	One comment ....
Date:	Apr 19 19:11
Author:	Colonel Thomas Kane

SLDrone wrote:
> Mojo, I like your analysis, however I have some more data to pour into the mill.
>
> You stated, "There appears to be little evidence that the church is trying to take any strategic measures to increase customer retention,..."
>
> That is in fact incorrect. In the mid 90's Hinckley became increasingly alarmed (even angered) by the poor retention numbers of the newly baptized. At the mission president training seminar held each summer at the MTC in Provo, Hinkley rolled out a new emphasis on retention, charging the mission presidents with focusing a renewed effort on retention. In that and in subsequent mission president trainings he has stated "to you presidents I say, retention in not the problem of the members." And then while punching his finger in the air for emphasis, "it is YOUR problem". In 1998 or 99 Hinckley satelite broadcasted a closed meeting to all church leadership in which he strongly emphasized retention. In that meeting he rolled out his program detailing that all new members needed "a friend in the Church, a calling in the Church, and the nourishing word of God". He also stated in that broadcast "if we baptize someone and fail to retain them we have done them no good, in fact we have done them a great disservice".
>
> During the time I served as a mission president I frequently received memos from the missionary department and edicts from Boyd K reminding me of my duty to retain newly baptized members. In fact, nearly half of my "sales force" was employed in the reactivation of inactive members. There was a significant relaxing of pressure on mission presidents to baptize "at all costs" during this same period. Note that I stated the pressure was relaxed, however it was not entirely abandoned. It is VERY interesting to note that at about the same time the retention program was rolled out the overall baptism rate declined. The fact is that during the hay day baptisms of the 80's and early 90's, there was phenominal pressure placed upon mission presidents and subsequently on the missionaries to baptize, baptize baptize. This of course led to rediculous farsical, fabricated, and bribed baptisms with the easily predictable failure to retain. Those practices have all but vanished, showing that the growth during that period was a sham.

The Colonel replies:
Mojo Jojo made a subtle point - or perhaps, The Colonel is engaged in projection - that does not detract from your commentary, but places both MJJJ's and your comments in the different contexts.

Mojo Jojo wrote:
"There appears to be little evidence that the church is trying to take any strategic measures to increase customer retention,..."

The Colonel comments:
This is more substantive than many realize; Hinckley did, IN THE PAST, in his high and palmy days of "Ten Million (members) by 2000," and "100 (temples) by 2000," hit the SP's hard on the convert retention issue.

It failed.

That's why the new focus is to (1) take the mishies from the SP, and put them under the Ward's Bishop, and (2) focus on retention AND getting greater degrees of activity from the membership, while trying to make the formerly acitve, active again.

COB knows that convert retention is not worth the trouble; adults who convert have problems, and either the Church helps them solve the problem (not likely), and they move on, or the Church fails to help them solve the problem, and they move on.

Converts, in short, are not worth the trouble it took to recruit them; remember, tracting is down to about 15 on the list of Things To Do.

COB's sharp pencil guys have learned from the Jehovah's Witnesses - people are conveted to a church by people they know and respect, who are members of that church.

THAT'S WHY the new, "Every Member A Missionary" program, is going into effect.

It seems the Implosion is taking place faster than many thought, and, horror of horrors, signicant parts of an entire generation, powered by the Internet, are leaving - and this process can be predicted by their inactivity.

Thus, Packer - PACKER, of all people - stands up at General Confernce and complains about the Young Women who do not move forward into the Relief Society.

It's not the Relief Society they are not joining; it's the Church they are slowly leaving...

If they lose one generation, then it's the Church's last generation, as we know it.

And that's why the new focus is on "holding the line" with the current members, particularly those from BIC families, and letting converts slide.

The Core Mormons are the heart of the Church.

SOMETHING must have happened to the Church's financial situation, which depends on tithing to make the show go; our guess is, on their way to inactivity, tithing is the first thing to go.

If enough people slow down their tithing, and even stop their tithing, then suddenly, the Church can't do the Crossroads Mall deal out of ready cash, and a LOT of the commerical real estate crowd asks - WHAT is going on, that the President is talking at General Conference about how the Church will not go into debt?

Debt should be the LAST thing on their mind, if things were going reasonably well.

They aren't, even in the Core BIC families.

That's why this last General Confernce in historic, with so many addresses sounding like acts of desperation to keep their core, very profitable customers.

"Strategic Plan?"

No.

"Bugler, sound 'Retreat'."

Best wishes.

Subject:	President Hinkley is dead wrong--perhaps that's why it's not working
Date:	Apr 19 20:04
Author:	Mojo Jojo

President Hinkley couldn't have been more wrong. Customer retention is NOT the responsibility of missionaries but of the ward members. Why? Because people by and large do not join the church becasue they are "converted" as we commonly understand the term. They join the church for the same reason that most people join any social organization, for social reasons--for friendship, for a feeling of belonging, to associate with people who are like them (or at least who they hope are like them). Empirical evidence appears overwhelming that whatever "spiritual experience" converts have during the conversion process, it does not, nor cannot, sustain them IF their social needs are not eventually meet. By virtue of their transitory status, missionaries simply cannot fulfill converts social needs for more than a very short period of time. The ward needs to step in, and step in quickly, to fulfill those needs. If they do not, the covert goes inactive, and looks elsewhere to fulfill his/her social needs.

(I have a hypothesis, for which I have scant empirical evidence, but it is this: a large percentage of converts to the LDS church are "perpetual joiners," who flit from church to church, society to society, group to group, seeking to fulfill their deep social needs. For a lot of these people, no group can fufill these needs on a sustained basis, so they move on after a period to something else. I think that missionaires catch up a large number of these in their nets.)

I am frankly shocked that Hinkley is apparently so blind to this fact. Does he really believe the BS missionaies teach that a spiritual witness of the "truth" is so strong that can carry a person for his/her life? That however strong the spiritual witness that it can sustain non-acceptance into a closed society, or overcome association in an organization that otherwise fails to meet one's social needs? Is he really that naive? Can it be? Where the hell are the advisors whispering in his ear that this is simply not so? (I suppose that if he really believes that he is God's annointed, then he's capable of deceiving himself about anything.)

I can tell you that if this is the church's strategy, it will fail, and it will fail miserably.

Could an organization that is otherwise so sophisticated in its marketing approaches miss so obviously the primary need that religion fufills? I don't believe it. Somebody up there knows what's going, they have to. The evidence is obvious, even to a first year marketing student. The church is producing a shitty product that fails to meet people's needs, and people are voting in droves with their feet.

Somebody up at COB needs to slap of' Gordy a good one and get him to wake up and smell the postum.

Subject:	One comment on Hinckley's leadership....
Date:	Apr 19 23:19
Author:	Colonel Thomas Kane

Mojo Jojo wrote:
> President Hinkley couldn't have been more wrong. Customer retention is NOT the responsibility of missionaries but of the ward members. Why?

The Colonel replies:
GBH hits the missionaries because they are supposed to help keep the locals in line, while answering to SLC.

This is, of course, all but delusional; the mishies only have few contacts with converts, and, frankly, that's all right with them.

Remember, converts are basically unwanted by The Mormons That Matter - the descendants of the "Trek of '47."

And, with the mishies being moved around so much, and being hit upon to produce the numbers - quantity, not quality - it's remarkable they are being asked to anything at all about convert retention.

Mojo Jojo wrote:
> (I have a hypothesis, for which I have scant empirical evidence, but it is this: a large percentage of converts to the LDS church are "perpetual joiners," who flit from church to church, society to society, group to group, seeking to fulfill their deep social needs. For a lot of these people, no group can fufill these needs on a sustained basis, so they move on after a period to something else. I think that missionaires catch up a large number of these in their nets.)

The Colonel replies:
Interesting hypothesis; that might explain why tracting is #15 on the list of Things To Do for the missionaries.

Of course - think about it - tracting attracts needy people, and the Church can't do anything about them, anyway.

Mojo Jojo wrote:
> I am frankly shocked that Hinkley is apparently so blind to this fact. Does he really believe the BS missionaies teach that a spiritual witness of the "truth" is so strong that can carry a person for his/her life?

The Colonel replies:
Hinckley seems more and more like Lear - surrounded by retainers who dare not take the checkbook away from him, but who can not understand why the Kingdom is falling....

He should have looked out after the Nauvoo Temple restoration, and said, "Ten million members, one hundred temples, the Nauvoo temple restored, the Olympics successfully pulled off, money in the bank. Time to leave the stage on a high note."

He didn't.

Now, he rages against Stake Presidents ("Well put the missionaries under the ward's bishops - THAT will show you!"), the missionaries ("Why are people leaving? Work harder! You are weak in faith! THAT showed you!"), the sister missionaries ("Young women have no business being missionaries! They should join the Relief Society, and marry a Returned Missionary! There! THAT told them, didn't it, Thomas?"), you name it, Gordon's mad at them.

They have failed him; after all he has done, they just don't seem to get it, and follow The Plan.

Gordon has made the mistake of all Old People; the world changed, he didn't, and the illusion of control enforced by the old social order of the Wasatch of his youth, is gone.

Young women have opportunities today well beyond any available to Hinckley in his youth; this must gall him, on some level.

Look at him when he does the Priesthood sessions; all-male, all-Mormon, all proud - his walk and talk are of a man half his aqe, when he is in their company.

Now, look at him when he addresses the Relief Society; tired, old, reduced to tritely ritualistic formulations, more cranky Old Grandpa than the Patriarchal leader of a Patriarchal society.

He has succeeded wildly beyond the wildest dreams of his youth; but those were the dreams of HIS youth, and not the children of today, OUR youth.

Mojo Jojo wrote:
> I can tell you that if this is the church's strategy, it will fail, and it will fail miserably.

The Colonel replies:
Agreed.

Mojo Jojo wrote:
> Could an organization that is otherwise so sophisticated in its marketing approaches miss so obviously the primary need that religion fufills? I don't believe it. Somebody up there knows what's going, they have to. The evidence is obvious, even to a first year marketing student. The church is producing a shitty product that fails to meet people's needs, and people are voting in droves with their feet.

The Colonel replies:
The Mormon Church does not offer a religon; it can not even describe Mormon Doctrine; the last time they tried, in a book written by an Apostle, everyone was horrified at the truth behind the mask.

At its best, the Mormon Church offers one thing - a structure within which Mormonism's sense of community can flourish.

It has been failing at that, too.

Mojo Jojo wrote:
> Somebody up at COB needs to slap of' Gordy a good one and get him to wake up and smell the postum.

The Colonel replies:
Now is the time for Gordon to slip quietly off the stage...

And he won't.

He LOVES the limelight.

And, he says to himself at night, "Eleven million members, one hundred and fourteen temples, Nauvoo restored, the Salt Lake Olympics in the fulfillment of prophecy - who else is more qualified than I to lead?"

He has a point.

These are all the matters of form, for the Corporation, and not matters of substance, for a Church.

Hinckley, N. Eldon Tanner and Thomas H. Monson, made the Church a corporation; now, they've got to make it a Church, or it will fail as a Church, and a corporation.

Best wishes.

Subject:	Excellent points CTK!
Date:	Apr 19 23:36
Author:	Gail

The Mormons are living in a parallel world which is increasingly unconnected to the modern world. They are having no success with baptizing intact, middle and upper middle class families, they are losing the more intelligent converts quickly and many of the younger generation are tossing the Morg aside. The trek of '47 families are the ones with the most to lose by leaving Mormonism and many will stay, going through the motions but believing less and less in the words spouted from the Supernacle.

Gail

Subject:	Thank you! Some implications of your comment....
Date:	Apr 20 01:32
Author:	Colonel Thomas Kane

Gail wrote:
> The Mormons are living in a parallel world which is increasingly unconnected to the modern world.

The Colonel replies:
Exactly.

The modern world has a nasty habit of coming in, one way or another.

Thus, when the Prophet, Seer and Revelator begins General Conference with a discussion of a small commercial real estate development, and follows this with his swearing the Church will never go into debt, people really wondered just what is REALLY going on?

Is COB hoping Uncle Tommy will take away Grandpa's checkbook?

Bet on it.

There is nothing more able to focus your mind on the Real World like debt; debt comes from the illusion you can afford something you can't really afford.

When the bank lets you know the Ninety Days are about up, this does concentrate the mind, marvelously.

Gail wrote:
>They are having no success with baptizing intact, middle and upper middle class families, they are losing the more intelligent converts quickly and many of the younger generation are tossing the Morg aside.

The Colonel replies:
This is the economic tragedy all of the ward and temple construction has masked; the Church, in looking for converts, sought quantity over quality.

Bluntly, this is NOT a Church for poor people; they can't afford the maintenance on the buildings, much less send serious money to SLC each month.

However, GBH demanded 10 million members, and 100 temples, by 2000; that was that.

All of the time, Monson was watching the money with a sense of horror, fully aware of how fragile a foundation was in place for Gordon's Empire - or, to be more accurate, Gordon's Folly.

Gail wrote:
>The trek of '47 families are the ones with the most to lose by leaving Mormonism and many will stay, going through the motions but believing less and less in the words spouted from the Supernacle.
>
> Gail

The Colonel replies:
The "Trek of '47" families do have the most of lose by leaving Mormonism; that's why they aren't leaving Mormonism.

Rather, they are redefining Mormonism, and COB, UNDER THE PRESENT LEADERSHIP, can not keep up.

The redefinition is most obvious on the fault lines of gender, and generation.

Young Women are, literally, leaving the Church, by not going on to join the Relief Society. This is passive aggresion, the revenge of the helpless.

Young men, the favored of the Wasatch Gerontocracy, are also apparently declining the opportunity to become High Priests, outside the Wasatch and the Corridor.

The realization that an entire generation of Young Women are disaffected, and doing something about it, keeps COB's demographers awake at night.

The Church's sustainable growth is through the heirs of the "Trek of '47." Once lost, in the Internet Age, they can not be recovered.

Gordon looked at his pretty buildings, his (largely vacant) temples, and ignored the hearts of his daughters.

The Church will pay for that, and they will pay, dearly.

Best wishes.

Subject:	Thats where we come in.
Date:	Apr 21 15:15
Author:	Edelman Worldwide (The Firm Handling the Marketing of Mormonism)

Since GBH and the other big fish are totally clueless on what really works in the world of marketing, growth and customer retention --- we have been employed to help build up the corporation's prestige, reputation, market share and profits.

All that really matters is that they have lots of cash and pay their bills. We'll help them grow.

I say these things in the name of our quarterly profits. ahmen.

Subject:	The retention effort even pre-dates Hinckley
Date:	Apr 19 21:04
Author:	Makurosu

In 1987-89, I spent a good chunk of my time as a missionary locating inactive members in Ireland. This was an edict from on high, but my mission president thought that it might be a good way to get referrals as well as reactivate the lost member.

Missionaries would also be closely involved with the ward after baptism to ensure a smooth transition into the Church. We would help the members teach the after-baptism discussions, and help them make friends in the ward.

I agree with Mojo's assertion that it's outrageous for Ballard to say that the Church isn't marketing a product or announcing it's numbers from the housetops. We all know that it is, and what Ballard said is hilarious.

Subject:	One wonders why Elder Ballard felt it necessary to deny these sales/product/growth notions.
Date:	Apr 19 20:26
Author:	Lurker 2

Normally, one would expect this type of denial if there was a perception in some circles that these ideas WERE abroad in the land - and I suspect strongly that this is the case. I know, as a missionary, I certainly felt a strong correlation between the church's approach and a regular sales program - and that was thirty years ago.
And, with regard to retention; genuine retention requires genuine care and genuine friendship from all involved with the new member. This requires a far bigger personal commitment from them than merely the doing of one's duty,the latter being an attitude I saw lots of, as an active TBM.

Subject:	Here's why
Date:	Apr 19 20:47
Author:	Mojo Jojo

There is something not quite right about marketing "God's True Gospel" like one would market toilet tissue. The gospel is so important that it "transcends" the trite, materialistic, ultimately unimportant trappings of everyday life, so it ought to be treated differently, and with reverence. The idea that the "gospel" is being marketed like so much toilet tissue cheapens it, and brings it down to the level of the wordly, and fails to give it its due reverence.

Plus, there is a common perception that marketing=sales and sales=slimy, plaid coat wearing, pushy salesmen trying to pressure you into buying something you really don't want or need. Marketing is actually much more than sales, and it is, in my opinion, a fascinating and noble vocation, but it is commonly associated with unscrupulous sales tactics.

Such an attitude is common among many smallish social cause organizations, whose cause is "too important" to be cheapened by marketing gimmicks. An unfortunately innacurate and very shortsighted view.

Plus, since the "gospel" is so self-evidently wonderful, it should not need to be marketed. Reliance on the spirit ought to be sufficient. That key policies are based on focus group research and explicit strategies to manipulate emotions does not square with the sublime simplicity of knowing truth as outlined in Moroni 10: 3-5.

Finally, I am guessing that Ballard's dismissing the importance of numbers was the opening gambit in a strategy to de-emphasize numbers in light of recent growth trends. Yesterday when numbers were high, numbers were important, because they were evidence the church was true. Today when numbers are low, numbers are not important, because they don't mean anything. It's classic "Cover Your Ass."

Subject:	sld drone and others.
Date:	Apr 19 21:24
Author:	CP

So your insight is helpful here. Can I ask did the half of the sales force in your mission working on retention and reactivation experience significant success? What methods were employed to get the members back or to keep them active.

I poste on NOM and here in a thread that I believe that church is moving towards a JW every member a missionary sales force. BUT

I just had one comment about the changing tide of baptisms. We have a sibling in Argentina. When first out in his mission most of his baptisms were young woman who were wooed by his blonde hair and blue eyes. BUT recently the letters are changing. He bragged last week of baptising a convert who had saved up 4 months of tithing and another who had quit his job to attend church. He mentioned that they are teaching converts longer and demanding more from them before they attend church. It sounds like the church has figured out that to keep converts they have to make them sacrafice for the church and dig deep BEFORE baptism. We were sick over this as well you all know the financial prospects of Argentina right now...SIGH

What do you all think of this insight. Is this just a random phenonema or the turning of the tide?

Subject:	Argentina? Whatever happened to the second temple? An idea...
Date:	Apr 19 21:39
Author:	Colonel Thomas Kane

The Colonel replies:
The economy of Argentina is essentially preindustrial; that's how far it has gone back.

It will not come back in our lifetime.

The situation in Argentina you describe sounds like the great anomaly; GBH is still pushing the numbers game, and any attempt to place quality over quantity seems doomed the minute COB catches on.

It would be ironic if the only AP in the Church who "gets it" is at the other end of the hemisphere!

Best wishes.

Subject:	Anomaly
Date:	Apr 19 21:44
Author:	Mojo Jojo

I am guessing that your sibling's experience is an anomaly. Most, or many, missionaries can cite "miraculous conversion" stories of someone who made significant personal sacrifices to join the church. Heck, even I can, and I was in the misson field during the glory days of the "chip and dip" and "baseball baptisms."

An interesting story. While on my mission long ago, a story appeared in an official church magazine written about the "miraculous conversion" of a poor, humble, man in my mission who faithfully paid his tithing despite his very humble circumstances. It was a very inspirational and faith promoting article. Well, when I was transferred to the area where he lived, one of the first things I did was go look him up. I just had to meet this pillar of faith.

I found him finally. He was a drunken slob who had not set foot in an LDS chapel for months. He couldn't remember even the most basic of LDS beliefs, and he certainly wasn't paying his tithing anymore.

The question for you sibling is whether these "miraculous" conversions he cites are still active 1 month, 1 year, 2 years, etc. from now. I am betting "No." I would bet that his letters do not mean that anything is really changing out there.

Subject:	Just another reason why the LDS Church doesn't make it's financial statements available to the public . . .
Date:	Apr 20 01:39
Author:	Anon

Can you imagine what would happen if the amount of money the Church spends on it's marketing campaigns were revealed? (Public reactions of outrage, disgust, even mockery, come to mind!!!)

Thanks for the excellent post, Mojo Jojo!!!

Subject:	One of the Lessons of History is....
Date:	Apr 20 11:01
Author:	Colonel Thomas Kane

The Colonel replies:
History records thatrevolutions occur, not from overthrowing the yoke of oppression, but by the Leadership raising expectations, and then failing to meet them.

If people looked at the books, saw where the money went, and why - and then applied economic value added accounting -they would shake their heads in dismay, cancel the missionary program as it is currently structured immediately, and halt ALL new temple construction, and ALL new ward building construction.

Then, the Fp/Qo12/1stQo70 would be accountable to the members; the veil of secrecy supports their mask of superiority. Once that is gone, a LOT of people will see the Church for the souless Corporation it is, and will ask these men, "WHY didn't you take the checkbook from Ol' Granpa Hinckley ten years ago? Do you know how hard we have to scramble to pay the bills after paying tithing?"

If the books are opened, the Church will close.

Best wishes.

Subject:	Cancel the missionary program?
Date:	Apr 21 12:30
Author:	Jackson

The missionary program is what makes what you call "core Mormons" into core Mormons. If they never converted anyone, they would still want to keep the missionary program. It is the greatest tool for indoctrination ever devised. Without it their future would indeed look sad -- many young men who don't go on missions stray from the fold. A high percentage of returned missionaries wind up getting married in the temple. Once married in the temple they are stuck like a lot of us with TBM spouses who won't let them stray. It's the one program that actually assures them a future. Cancel the missionary program and inactivity rates among young men and women would skyrocket.

Subject:	Of course not; just give it an internal focus. Here's why...
Date:	Apr 21 16:24
Author:	Colonel Thomas Kane

The Colonel replies:
Holland announced sometime back that the mishie program would focus more on internal efforts; the Church's great fear is not loss of converts. COB never really wanted them, anyway - little economic value for a lot of efforts.

COB's big fear is the people in the Church who are becoming inactive - first by "slowing down" tithing, then by "slowing down" callings, then becoming gradually inactive...

THAT'S WHY the mishies have been transferred to the Ward's Bishop; it is close enough to the action that they can work more closely with the locals, and slow down this growing problem.

The routine for developing the future of the Church is open and obvious - "Trek of '47" family, mission, temple marriage, BYU, EQ, High Priest.

If they lose even one generation, they are lost.

COB now knows that, all too well.

Best wishes.

Subject:	Got your Mojo working...Thanks for starting such a great thread!
Date:	Apr 20 18:06
Author:	Jefferson

Your marketing expertise is evident. I appreciate the "first-hand knowledge". Insightful contributions from one and all.

Some observations:

1. One cannot overemphasize the importance of customer satisfaction and how it relates particularly to the 25 yr. old and younger crowd...those who have lived in relative peace, comfort and state of instant gratification. The church is failing miserably in this regard.

2. I thrill to the possibility that younger men and women, due to the Internet or otherwise, are becoming hip to the fraud and seek to become normal human beings while saying not only no but "hell no" to the fraud.

3. While many on this board will relate to the causes of the impending implosion most active church members residing in the "parallel universe" will simply be busy rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic..."human doings" rather than "human beings", foregoing an otherwise glorious current life in desperate hope of a more glorious afterlife.

4. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the church was reduced to primarily reactivation efforts rather than continuing to foist the fraud upon the credulous.

Subject:	Some quick comments...
Date:	Apr 20 21:48
Author:	Colonel Thomas Kane

The Colonel replies:
Indeed, it is as if the Church basically sees the Internet generation as something to be tolerated, for a season, until they "get with the program."

The Church has nothing to offer such people; never had, never will.

It's great success was with Young; when people had to pay a high price to join, and a high price to stay.

At that time, to give the Great President his due, the Church had something to offer, both materially and spiritually.

Now, it has nothing to offer, materially or spiritually.

That will have to change.

Jefferson wrote:
> 2. I thrill to the possibility that younger men and women, due to the Internet or otherwise, are becoming hip to the fraud and seek to become normal human beings while saying not only no but "hell no" to the fraud.

The Colonel replies:
Indeed; the loss of one generation dooms the Church as we know it.

It seems that loss is well under way.

Jefferson wrote:
> 3. While many on this board will relate to the causes of the impending implosion most active church members residing in the "parallel universe" will simply be busy rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic..."human doings" rather than "human beings", foregoing an otherwise glorious current life in desperate hope of a more glorious afterlife.

The Colonel replies:
Isn't that exactly what the Wasatch genontocrats are doing now?

Aren't they moving directly to "circle the wagons" mode?

Jefferson wrote:
> 4. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the church was reduced to primarily reactivation efforts rather than continuing to foist the fraud upon the credulous.

The Colonel replies:
That seems to be the way it is going; converts have brought them little but grief, and if any more generational loss occurs, the Church on Sunday will look like Relief Society Conference - nobody under 40, and precious few under 50.

Best wishes.

Subject:	Ballard's comments that struck me...
Date:	Apr 21 17:03
Author:	Jeff Cohen

"We are members of the restored Church of Jesus Christ, empowered and sent forth by the Lord Himself to find, nourish, and bring SAFELY into His Church those who are seeking to know the truth."

-----Has someone been brought UNSAFELY into the Mormon Church? What did he mean by safely?

"Professional advancement, increased income, bigger homes, or newer cars and recreational equipment do not bring lasting peace and happiness."

-----Why does the COP seem obsessed with the build up of the area around the SLC temple? Bigger buildings for conference, state of the art technology in their, buying Crossroads Mall from investments, hence increased income. Why is it that they are allowed to get heady, but if the members seek after a bigger & better lifestyle, they are told they will not find happiness?

"It can only be shared—heart to heart, soul to soul, spirit to spirit—by being good neighbors and by caring and showing love."

------Yes sir buddy, the COP lives by this slogan,
"Make you feel good, put my hands in your pockets". Those warm fuzzies make it lots easier for those new converts to hand over their hard earned money on a silver platter to men they will never know.

"And as we do so, we will radiate the gospel in our own lives, and it will radiate to the people the blessings the gospel has to offer."

------No offense, but I'm glad I do not have that look, that radiation given off this body anymore. During the Elizabeth Smart press conferences you got to see lots of smiley happy Mormon faces, all looking that sheepish "Look at me, I'm so happy" prozac look. I thought, my God, me and my wife must have looked just as goofy when we were mormons. My wife always says the women at Relief Society conference speaking always looked like they had been drugged. At the time, I didn't see it that way.

Now I have my OWN "countenance", not a mormon stupor look.
Jeff Cohen

Subject:	My wife says the same thing your wife says about RS!!
Date:	Apr 21 19:59
Author:	Shiz

She was RS PRes. for 5 years at age 26-31 and she couldn't get anyone to be counselors. She said that they were so uptight, or reluctant to participate and that there were continous debates on mundane little dogma details that drove her nuts.

She began to question the supposed idea that RS brings 'blessings'. She oft says that being released was THE 'blessing'.

Subject:	Your basic point seems (correctly! to be...
Date:	Apr 21 21:34
Author:	Colonel Thomas Kane

WHY do they have to tell us these things at all?

One observation, knowing the subtle thinking of the FP/Qo12...

Jeff Cohen wrote:
> "We are members of the restored Church of Jesus Christ, empowered and sent forth by the Lord Himself to find, nourish, and bring SAFELY into His Church those who are seeking to know the truth."
>
> -----Has someone been brought UNSAFELY into the Mormon Church? What did he mean by safely?

The Colonel replies:
The great hold the Church has on the Corridor Mormons is emotional - SAFETY is following the counsel of the Prophet is a common theme. There is an absolute paranoia about being OUTSIDE around Corridor Church members, particularly those over 60.

Of course, the Mormon culture's aspect of eternally conditional approval only takes ruthless advantage of this!

Jeff Cohen wrote:
> "Professional advancement, increased income, bigger homes, or newer cars and recreational equipment do not bring lasting peace and happiness."

The Colonel replies:
All of the FP/Qo12/1stQo70, with the possible exception of Haight, made these their guiding personal and professional light, and FP/Qo12/1stQo70 approval was obvious every step of the way.

These things might "not bring lasting peace and happiness," but their absence certainly guarantees YOU won't make it above First Counselor in the local Elder's Quorum.

Jeff Cohen wrote:
> -----Why does the COP seem obsessed with the build up of the area around the SLC temple? Bigger buildings for conference, state of the art technology in their, buying Crossroads Mall from investments, hence increased income. Why is it that they are allowed to get heady, but if the members seek after a bigger & better lifestyle, they are told they will not find happiness?

The Colonel replies:
This is one of the interesting cultural traits that Brigham Young forced into being, and capitalized on so well - the members identify with the Church's greatness, and the proof of the greatness is in the many great and spacious buildings the Church built, owns, and controls.

"Yes, I am old, poor, broke, and miserable, living a life of quiet Hell for the last 50 years with a thankless bitch of a wife and ungrateful rat bastard children; that's part of the price I had to pay to prove my moral superiority to the heathen as a member of the Church, and you can see, just look at the Conference Center, how successful WE are."

If he was too much more "successful," he would be living at the Mission; oh, sorry, it's not "he," it's "we" that are "successful."

Glad to clear THAT up!

Jeff Cohen wrote:
> "It can only be shared—heart to heart, soul to soul, spirit to spirit—by being good neighbors and by caring and showing love."
>
> ------Yes sir buddy, the COP lives by this slogan,
> "Make you feel good, put my hands in your pockets". Those warm fuzzies make it lots easier for those new converts to hand over their hard earned money on a silver platter to men they will never know.

The Colonel replies:
And how do you show this special "love?"

Obedience, and obendience to the law of tithing.

If GBH is facing real financial troubles paying for the Crossroads Plaza redevelopment, then everyone had better look at their wallets real closely; more "love" is deperately needed!

Jeff Cohen wrote:
> "And as we do so, we will radiate the gospel in our own lives, and it will radiate to the people the blessings the gospel has to offer."
>
> ------No offense, but I'm glad I do not have that look, that radiation given off this body anymore. During the Elizabeth Smart press conferences you got to see lots of smiley happy Mormon faces, all looking that sheepish "Look at me, I'm so happy" prozac look. I thought, my God, me and my wife must have looked just as goofy when we were mormons. My wife always says the women at Relief Society conference speaking always looked like they had been drugged. At the time, I didn't see it that way.
>
> Now I have my OWN "countenance", not a mormon stupor look.
> Jeff Cohen

The Colonel replies:
The drugs mask the anger they feel when they realize they have so much invested in a corporation disguised as a Church; their only outlet is passive aggression.

That's why the women at the RS Conference were over 50, mostly overweight (self-medication through food!), and dressed WAY too casually for an important event.

Which means they were signalling their passive anger through their all-too-casual attire.

Look at the age composition of that group - few under 50, NONE under 40, and nobody really happy, at all.

Their daughters do not even bother to live the charade.

Best wishes.

Subject:	The younger generation is almost lost.
Date:	Apr 21 22:36
Author:	andrewgprv

I am 19 and I can tell you my generation is hanging on by a thread. I grew up in upper-middle class Sandy in a Uber Mormon neighborhood. A neighborhood that the GA's would be proud of. Now I can tell you that about half of my peers have given up on the church completely they would be happy if it just went away. Then you have a decent number that still claim loyalty to the church but at the same time arn't active, definatly arn't tithe payers and give a half ass attempt at even following the gospel. The only remaining TBM's are either a little on the lower end of the IQ scale or to ingrained due to families. But by far the vast majority are leaving not officially but they rarely attend and wouldn't think about giving the church 10% of their income.

Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org

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