TLC, a regular contributor to the exmormon.org bulletin board, composed a great letter about the SLC Plaza that was published in the Salt Lake Tribune in November 2002. A rough draft was initially posted on the bulletin board. It was discussed extensively and the final published result is below. Comments and discussion about and including the initial letter follow. This letter, published as an op-ed piece, caused quite a uproar in Salt Lake City.
In the 2nd half of this piece, is documentation about arrests initiated by the Mormon Church in the Salt Lake City Plaza in 2002.
In a letter to the editor on Thursday, October 31st, Brenda Lyon wrote: "I wonder how the ACLU, the First Unitarian Church and their other clients would feel if LDS Church members went to the public easements in front of their buildings during their special events and were offensive to their patrons." When a member of the LDS Church implies that Mormons don’t do what the zealots at Main Street Plaza are doing, I have to question how familiar they are with what goes on in [Mormon] mission fields around the world.
As an LDS missionary in Italy, I stood in front of Catholic cathedrals with aggressive, determined companions who thought nothing of chasing a person down the street trying to get them to stop and talk, when it was abundantly clear the person had no desire or willingness to do so. I had companions who on occasion followed people into churches because they had not been taught to respect religious boundaries. Is a cathedral in Italy to be considered any less sacred to the Catholics there than the Salt Lake Temple is to Mormons here?
Pamphlets, Books of Mormon, flyers, whatever. We were constantly pushing things into people's hands with no regard for their boundaries or desires. Or for that matter, where we were doing it. The directives given to us in zone meetings by our leaders were tantamount to being told to disregard the cultural norms and boundaries in Italy and simply get the people baptized. I was shocked when it was subtly suggested that we scout for converts in and around St. Peter’s Square at the Vatican, since it was commonly known that such activities were illegal. There were missionaries however, who took great pride in having worked the area around the Vatican and boasted of their efforts there.
I used to stand next to our massive, three-paneled street board in Pescara in front of one of the city’s Catholic cathedrals and pass out Mormon literature while telling people that Catholicism was "The Great And Abominable Whore Of The Earth." It was what LDS leaders had interpreted the words in the Book of Mormon to mean and we stood right there in front of their cathedral and told them that their church was a whore. Is there really any difference between doing that and standing on Main Street Plaza calling LDS women harlots as they walk by?
The Catholic church isn't just a religion to the Italian people - it's part of the cultural fabric of their lives. And I was there trying to rip holes in it. I cried the day a guy spit on me on the Via del Corso in downtown Rome as I tried to approach him across the street from an historic Catholic cathedral. I cried because I knew he was right. I would have spit on me too. I loved the Italians; they were in every way more my people than Americans. I grew up with them, I went to school with them, I lived in the countryside with them and they were my friends. And I was back there as an LDS missionary disrespecting their religion, their customs and their boundaries.
If members of the LDS church are going to require respect from people who disagree with their beliefs, then they need to lead by example. In the meantime, it’s a no-holds barred race to the finish line. And the rules, such as the Mormon church has defined them, are clear: Get in there and get the job done no matter what. Right or wrong, the non-Mormon missionaries on Main Street Plaza are simply playing by the rules.
Here is the discussion and how the letter evolved.
| Subject: | Proposed letter to the Trib re: Main St. Plaza |
| Date: | Oct 29 12:04 2002 |
| Author: | TLC |
| This is the first draft of the letter that came out of the thread
this past weekend, inspired by Deconstructor's salient thoughts on the parallels between
missionary work and what's going on down at Main St. Plaza. One of the stories I've shared
here is from one of our posters whose name I can't find. If you're reading this, contact
me to let me know if it's OK to use your story and if it's OK to use your name. Thanks. I’d been watching the controversy over the Main Street Plaza unfold over the past few weeks with a detached curiosity until I read something a friend had written about his mission days in Spain. It occurred to me, while reading about his experiences, that those who come to protest, picket or hand out alternative religious materials in front of the Salt Lake temple are doing the same thing that Mormon missionaries do every day of the year, here and in other countries around the world. And it reminded me a lot of my own days as a missionary in the Italy, Rome mission. I don't think I had any idea at the time I went on my mission, just exactly what it was I was going to be required to do. I was mortified at the way I was being compelled to bother people in their homes, confront them in the parks or interrupt their conversations as they walked along the beachfront with families and friends for an evening passeggiata. I stood in front of churches with aggressive, determined companions who thought nothing of chasing a person down the street trying to get them to stop and talk, when it was abundantly clear the person had no desire or willingness to do so. I had companions who followed people into churches - something which I refused to do. Why did they do it? Because they'd been told to. We were told to tract on religious holidays and on Sundays. We were told that if we didn't preach to the person next to us on a bus, we weren't worthy of being on a mission. We were told to tract right on into lunch hour because that's when people were home. Never mind that lunchtime in Italy is almost sacred and that nobody opens their doors to strangers when they're about to sit down to lunch. For Americans, whose idea of lunch is a hamburger grabbed on the run, it might not seem like such a big deal to bother people while they’re eating. But Italy isn’t America and the unwillingness of the missionaries and their leaders to understand and respect the local customs and traditions, creates an awkward and sometimes abusive situation. Pamphlets, Books of Mormon, flyers, whatever. We were constantly shoving things into people's hands and faces with no regard whatsoever for their boundaries or desires. We weren't just told to harass people, we were taught how to do it. Of course it wasn’t called harassment – it was called proselytizing. But sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference between the two words when applied to missionary work. The directives given to us in zone meetings were tantamount to being told to disregard every cultural norm in Italy and simply get the people baptized. I was shocked when we were told to scout for converts in Piazza San Pietro at the Vatican. Ultimately, it was something I couldn’t do and dismissed it along with other issuances from mission leaders that were clearly in violation of Italian etiquette and customs. There were missionaries however, who took great pride in having worked the Vatican and boasted of their efforts there. I knew I'd had enough when a guy spit on me on the Via del Corso in downtown Rome. I cried because I knew he was right. I would have spit on me too. I loved these people; they were in every way more my people than Americans. I grew up with them, I went to school with them, I lived in the countryside with them and they were my friends. And I couldn't believe I was back there bothering them, harassing them and telling them that everything they believed in was a fraud and a lie. The Catholic church isn't just a religion to the Italian people - it's part of the cultural fabric of their lives. And I was there to try and rip holes in it. How noble and kind. I thought I was going there to share my religion - not tear theirs apart. The Great And Abominable Whore Of The Earth was what we used to call their religion. We stood right there in their faces and told them that their church was a whore. I wonder how different that really is from the people who stand on Main Street Plaza and call women harlots as they walk by. My friend who served in Spain was triggered by a letter written to the Tribune from a Mormon reader who said, “We don't harass other religions like that.” This is part of his response: “Under the direction of the president, Jesse James Judd, we used street displays and carried signs in the plazas in front of Catholic cathedrals on a weekly basis. We stopped people heading into the church and handed them pamphlets. We also tried to give out Book of Mormons too, which speak of a "great and abominable church" that is the "whore of all the earth" which LDS church leaders explained was the Catholic Church. And we missionaries believed it. In the city of Zaragoza exists the largest Catholic church in Spain known as the "Temple of the Pillar." We Mormon missionaries were not only encouraged to harass people outside this Catholic temple with our displays and pamphlets, but also praised for entering it and handing out anti-Catholic literature during the mass. Our Mission President was proud that we would actually interrupt people kneeling and praying in front of a Catholic shrine to ask them if they knew who Joseph Smith was. We got extra praise for informing these worshipers that their religious symbols and practices were an abomination. On "All Saints Day" (Nov. 1st) the Spanish people en masse visit cemeteries to remember their deceased relatives. Our American Mission President saw this as a great opportunity to spread the LDS gospel. As a missionary force we blanketed the cemeteries, interrupting people as they cried over the graves of their loved ones, declaring that we had the truth about the resurrection. We testified to them that they could see their dead loved-ones again if they listened to our message. I was utterly ashamed to harass people in this way, but it was our duty as Mormon missionaries to do it.” I wonder how most Mormons would feel if somebody walked into their ward on Sunday morning, tapped them on the shoulder in the middle of a prayer and told them that they had something better for them than Mormonism? Another friend, Annie Peral, shared with me her experience in the mission field in England. “We were asked by our president, Wendell Ashton, to covenant with him and with God in front of our fellow missionaries to NEVER go to bed without having taught 4 first discussions each day. That meant missionaries had to push their beliefs on everyone everywhere. Most people do not stand still long enough to hear anything a missionary has to say, but we followed the ones who didn't walk away fast enough and told them as much of the first discussion as we could. We hardly even knew the person's name, yet they had heard the first discussion! I'm surprised more of us didn't get reported to the police.” A former missionary who served in New Zealand recalls this mission-directed technique for proselytizing: "We didn't tract, we "harvested." We were told to RUN from door to door, and when someone would answer we were to say "we are representatives of Jesus Christ and have been sent to leave a blessing on your home." We were then to move toward the door expecting it to open. If we were let in we were to immediately fall to our knees and leave a blessing by the power of the priesthood. Then, since the person would obviously be feeling the spirit, we were to ask if we could come back and give them a message.” I used to stand next to our massive, three-paneled street board in Pescara in front of the city’s major cathedral, and feel utterly ashamed of what I was doing. I knew that our presence there was unwanted and that virtually everything we had to say was offensive to these people. I knew that I was being disrespectful to these people, in whose country I was a guest, by standing in front of their cathedral, chasing them around and passing out Mormon literature. But the only alternative was to be sent home in disgrace if I chose not to do what the mission leaders were telling me to do. I was trapped in a situation that I had no idea how to get out of and the compromise to my integrity was almost too much to bear. And I know that I’m not the only missionary who’s ever felt that way. So when a Mormon stands up and says, “We don't harass other religions like that,” they obviously aren’t familiar with what goes on in mission fields around the world. The zealots who stand on Main Street Plaza, aggressively sharing their message of truth, are no different that the tens of thousands of Mormon missionaries who do the exact same thing in countries all over the world. Is the Temple of the Pillar in Zaragoza, Spain any less sacred to the Catholics there than the Salt Lake Temple is to Mormons in Salt Lake? If Mormons are going to require respect from people who disagree with their beliefs, then they need to lead by example and teach their missionaries to respect the religions, traditions and customs of the countries where they’re serving. In the meantime, it’s a no-holds barred race to the finish line. And the rules, such as the Mormon church has defined them, are clear: Get in there and get the job done no matter what it takes. Right or wrong, the non-Mormon missionaries on Main Street Plaza are simply playing by the rules. |
| Subject: | Your words are more powerful than those you quote . . |
| Date: | Oct 29 12:17 |
| Author: | Devoted Exmo |
| Because they are authentic. I would consider editing out the others
experience and tell only yours. Your last two paragraphs reitterate what you said above
and drive it home. Less is more in this case. Your words are powerful enough. |
| Subject: | I agree |
| Date: | Oct 29 13:28 |
| Author: | Elwood |
| I agree that it would be better without the quotes of others. And I
am one of the ones quoted. It would be more powerful if you stick to your experience, and
Deconstructor's, with maybe a sentence or two about the similar experiences of other
missionaries you have talked to. Very good stuff, and well suited for an op-ed piece on Sunday. |
| Subject: | I hope you didn't take that the wrong way, Elwood! |
| Date: | Oct 29 16:48 |
| Author: | Devoted Exmo |
| I thought your experience was equally powerful, just not as
anecdotal experience. Your quotes have a power of their own and would be awesome printed. I was just trying to say what J said better below, that people tend to dismiss secondary experiences, and that might in some small way discredit the letter. If you both wrote about your experiences at the same time, that would be a real double whammy! |
| Subject: | Not at all |
| Date: | Oct 29 19:48 |
| Author: | Elwood |
| I agree with you - personal experience is much more powerful than
what will be seen as anecdotes. I've ranted here before about my mission experience, and it was pretty bad, but reading about other's experiences puts it in perspective - it wasn't as bad as some others, that's for sure. And for purposes of this letter, stories of harrassing people in the Vatican, outside and inside, churches, or on public sidewalks, is more on point than my experience. I'd stick with those, and maybe a sentence about discussions with other RM's that have expressed that they had similar experiences and instruction from their leaders. That gets the idea out there, but doesn't weaken TLC's expression of his personal experiences. |
| Subject: | That is really good. |
| Date: | Oct 29 12:28 |
| Author: | Moablo |
| I can't imagine the Tribune printing this, but I can hope. The ironic thing with the LDS missionary program is that the LDS cult believes in baptism for the dead. Why are they wasting so many members time and money on something that doesn't matter? By admission, they can simply baptize all these people after they die with the results being exactly the same as if they had converted them while alive. If it truly was the true church of God, people would be attracted to it, not repulsed by it. |
| Subject: | Oh but you miss the point..... |
| Date: | Oct 29 12:35 |
| Author: | Switz1 |
| IF it was about religion you would be right but the corporation is all about money and you can't get that from the dead. Therefore, grab them, dunk them, get into their checkbooks. |
| Subject: | a couple of suggestions |
| Date: | Oct 29 12:51 |
| Author: | elee |
| sorry, but the editor in me can't resist this type of thing. :) I'd dump passeggiatta. Although some of us are in the know, many are not. Although culturally significant to Italians, the meaning will be lost on most Utahns/Americans. See if you can't find an English equivalent to substitute. Then qualify the cultural significance of what "fare una passeggiatta" means to the average Italian. In the paragraph where you state several times "we were told", I think I would replace "told" with "instructed". A little more powerful. Change Piazza San Pietro to St. Peter's Square. Most people don't speak Italian and many have never visited. Make it unequivocal and be sure to include the piazza's relation to Il Vaticano, as well as the Cathedral itself. I don't mean to be nit-picky, but I think this piece is terribly important. I'm also torn about the other stories being included. I'm going to agree with J. here, in that human nature being what it is, the mention of "a friend of mine" could be interpreted as anecdotal, if not outright fiction. Good luck with this, Tom. I hope they print it. |
| Subject: | fare una passeggiata means (i think), |
| Date: | Oct 29 13:01 |
| Author: | J. |
| to make one walk. i believe you may be correct, tho, elee, and it would take away from the letter to have people scratch their heads over the phrase. and i have only ever know it as St Peter's square, but then again i'm an uneducated mutt! nit-picky is important, cos the readers of tthis letter will sure be nit- picky! the word "instructed" is also stronger. |
| Subject: | It's "to take a walk" in English. |
| Date: | Oct 29 13:14 |
| Author: | Tyson Dunn |
| Idioms don't translate literally from language to language, and
certain verbs (e.g., go, have, do, make, take, bring) are replete with idioms. You are
right that "fare" is "to do" or "to make", but you have to
translate the idiom as a whole, not part-by-part. Tyson |
| Subject: | yes, technically, it means to "make a walk" |
| Date: | Oct 29 13:19 |
| Author: | elee |
| but what I'm shooting for here, is the more ritualized aspect of
this particular event. All Italians do it, every night they possibly can. It's
"Family Time" in all its splendor. A time to see and be seen. And it's about as
sacred to Italians as the Madonna. Messing with people while they faciate una passeggiatta
(sorry if my verb agreement is off, I'm a bit rusty)is culturally as impolite as
disturbing an Italian as they are preparing to sit down to lunch. Simply put: it is unbelievably RUDE! For me, whenever I was making a walk, my end destination was the local gelateria and anyone who gets between me and my limone gelato is asking for trouble! :) |
| Subject: | excellent...I have only one suggestion |
| Date: | Oct 29 13:01 |
| Author: | Pt Loma |
| at the end of the first paragraph: And it reminded me a lot of my own days as a missionary make that "LDS missionary" so that there is no doubt to the reader (at that point) that you weren't representing some other church. |
| Subject: | "different than" is correct |
| Date: | Oct 29 14:34 |
| Author: | elee |
| Mail Address: |
| It is a comparative conjunction. "Different from",
although accepted in the spoken vernacular, is a mis-use of the preposition
"from". This particular conjunction set up a comparison, whereas prepositions
tell us something about locus/place. As for "Italy, Rome", I think that is just missionary techno-jargon and lends some legitimacy to Tom's claim to be a former missionary. |
| Subject: | Suggestion and a comment |
| Date: | Oct 29 14:45 |
| Author: | MMI |
| Mail Address: |
| Perhaps you should specify who the "we"(position not name
of course) is when talking about being told to do certain things. The higher up the food
chain the orders came from the harder it is for Mormons to dismiss the instructions as an
anomaly. I like the letter but its a bit too long. |
| Subject: | Few more suggestions |
| Date: | Oct 29 15:33 |
| Author: | Nightingale |
| Mail Address: |
| Your letter is excellent, TLC, as I expected! Like elee, I too have
an editor inside me. Hope you don't mind the following suggestions, which IMO, would add
clarity for non-Mormon readers. And it reminded me a lot of my own days as a missionary in the Italy, Rome mission. I agree that this reads better as Rome, Italy - perhaps you don't need to say "mission", just "days as a missionary in Rome, Italy." I was mortified at the way I was being compelled [insert "by church leaders"] to bother people in their homes I stood in front of churches with aggressive, determined [insert "missionary"] companions who thought nothing of chasing a person down the street. I had ["missionary"] companions who followed people into churches - something which I refused to do. Why did they do it? Because they'd been told to. [insert again, "by church leaders" (or equivalent phrase).] local customs and traditions, creates an awkward and sometimes abusive situation. I would specify "abusive situation", do you mean the mishies "abusing" the potential converts? The directives given to us in zone meetings were tantamount to being told to disregard every cultural norm in Italy and simply get the people baptized. Again, I would define "zone meeting" or just say "missionary training meeting" or equivalent phrase, and again, say by whom the instructions were given. The Great And Abominable Whore Of The Earth was what we used to call their religion. We stood right there in their faces and told them that their church was a whore. I wonder how different that really is from the people who stand on Main Street Plaza and call women harlots as they walk by. Just points of clarification again: remind readers who the people are who are standing on Main Street Plaza (non-Mormons and people in other communities - if it gets published elsewhere - may not be familiar with the issue). So, "the Christians" standing on the Plaza or "the Baptists" or "the protesters" (or whoever they are?) Also, who are the women they "call harlots"? Need to specify that one for sure, I think. I wonder how most Mormons would feel if somebody walked into their ward on Sunday morning Have to say "church" instead of ward, I think. It's a word only a Mormon would know. So when a Mormon stands up and says, “We don't harass other religions like that,” they obviously aren’t familiar with what goes on in mission fields around the world. Aren't familiar or choose to ignore, as the objections against such behaviour don't apply to them? Right or wrong, the non-Mormon missionaries on Main Street Plaza are simply playing by the rules. I would specify again, which rules? The one already set up by the Mormon church? Just my initial thoughts on first reading, TLC. I have a couple of ideas for shortening and still leaving the message intact, if you're interested. I think your thoughts are very powerful, but perhaps some of the detail and even emotion should be for a different forum than a letter to the editor? I wouldn't want to lose that emotion or this idea to speak out about what happens on a church mission, but would direct some of it somewhere else to better advantage, although I'd like this letter in some form to go in, with some editing, in view of the restrictions of a local newspaper letter to ed exposure. Maybe I'll have something else to say later re your second draft, if you are still looking for suggestions. |
| Subject: | Keep 'em coming guys! |
| Date: | Oct 29 16:14 |
| Author: | TLC |
| Great suggestions and I'm open to all of them. Gosh - you guys are amazing. Can't get away with squat around here. :-) I should hire some of you to be my regular editors - I'd fershur end up soundin' lots more smart. Anybody looking for a job? Major computer problems here at work today (this is me peeing on Bill Gates) and I won't have time to respond to any of your suggestions until this evening. Thanks!! |
| Subject: | I understand your point Nightingale |
| Date: | Oct 29 16:18 |
| Author: | elee |
| but I have one concern. When Tom's using specific mormon
techno-jargon, like "ward", for example, I think it makes the letter sound more
authentic. Although it would definitely create confusion for non-mormon readers. But
what's the targeted impact area? In my mind, it's the mormons themselves and anything Tom
can do to re-enforce that he's one of them, the deeper that impact will be. Perhaps some parenthetical qualification of these words for the non-mormon reader would be in line. :) |
| Subject: | I understand your point, elee! |
| Date: | Oct 29 20:24 |
| Author: | Nightingale |
| I caught elee's opinion on this in a post up above too and it's a
very good one! (re saying Italy, Rome as that is the correct name of the mission). I appreciate elee's very important point that the letter is primarily targeted for a Mormon readership at this time, so they will obviously understand the lingo. I agree with elee to keep the Mormon flavour in it if it's going to be sent only to the Utah paper, in which case, it's fine as is. I agree it's powerful to connect with readers by authentically speaking their "language"! And perhaps it's not necessary to summarize the entire issue in TLC's letter (as was my first impulse) but instead assume that readers will be familiar with the controversy. If the letter is going to be sent only to the Utah paper, I would go with elee's enlightened thought on this. If it's going to be sent to papers in other states with a largely non-Mormon readership (or to any other forums in the future), perhaps the parenthetical suggestions can be considered for inclusion, to increase clarity of meaning for non-mos. Even so, for general clarification, I would specify who the protesters on the street are and definitely who it is they call "harlot". I thought I had been keeping quite up to date on this topic and those two very important facts elude me still. So, all in all, I agree with elee on this point. How's that for a definitive opinion? |
| Subject: | A Jesse James Judd rant |
| Date: | Oct 29 18:30 |
| Author: | Sancho |
| Nobody will appreciate this with the possible exception of
Deconstructor, but I can testify to the truthfulness of the fanatacal mandates of one
Presidente Judd. When he arrived, our expected hours of work went from 56 a week to 70+.
He personally asked me to give up my P-day for the rest of my mission, and of course
encouraged the kind of over-the-top proselitizing described in your article. We were taught to leave our backpack in front of the door, ask to come in to do the survey and before they could answer we were to pickup the backpack and walk in. My Senior actually bowled a woman over. It was ridiculous. I taught a family that were very nice to us, but frankly not very bright. After teaching the first 4 lessons 10 times each, they still couldn't tell me who Joseph Smith was. Pte. Judd insisted they be baptized anyhow and came to my area to close the deal. I could go on and on, but I had vent a little bit. It's been awhile since I thought of Pte Judd. |
| Subject: | Comments on your suggestions. |
| Date: | Oct 29 21:29 |
| Author: | TLC |
| Thanks to all of you - great suggestions. Before this thread gets
closed, here's few comments regarding your ideas. Passeggiata in Italian is a word that describes a ritual that has no direct translation in English. I can see how it would be better to use something in English though. As some have noted, passeggiata is an evening tradition of going out for a walk with family and friends before retiring around eight or nine o'clock for dinner. Italians love their evening "strolls" and it's truly one of the most amazing aspects of Italian culture. Everybody goes out to mingle in the Piazzas, walk up and down the boardwalks and just hang out with their friends and family. Needless to say, it's a very poor choice of time to try and do missionary work. But how to get that point across in a few short words without distracting from the real issue? The missions in Italy were always referred to as Italy Rome, Italy Milan. before that I believe it was Italia Nord and Italia Sud - for north and south. I re-wrote those words at least sixteen times trying to decide what was best. Ultimately I decided that those in the know would know that the correct way to refer to the mission was by saying Italy Rome. But to those not in the know, it would appear that I'm poorly edited. I guess it's going to come down to who the audience is. Tough call. Using Italy Rome does validate my authenticity as a former Italian mish. And I thought that was important. I'm torn about leaving out Decon's contribution because it seems to me to be critical to the point that's being made. His description of the Temple of the Pillar is pivotal to my point. I understand the "hearsay" problem and am not sure how to resolve that. I need a lot of help with this decision. I agree that the piece is too long for a letter and would only be publishable as an op-ed piece. One of our posters said they had connections at the Trib and I would appreciate hearing from them again as I don't recall who it was. An overly emotional approach is not what I'm after and I need suggestions where those "overwrought" places are and how I can adjust them. Even as an op-ed, it's too long and I know that. Suggestions on where to cut would be great. As you all know from my posts, long-windedness R Us. Looking forward to hearing from you. For those who missed my post on the main board, I think it'd be a good idea to send you guys a copy of the letter in Word and let you edit from there rather than trying to do it here on the board. My addy is above. For those who have my home email, contact me and I''ll send you a copy. Thanks guys. You're amazing! |
| Subject: | It may be long... |
| Date: | Oct 29 22:59 |
| Author: | beaglie |
| Mail Address: |
| But I loved it! Spending two years in Italy is probably what opened my husband's mind enough to see that there are good people all over the world;not just in Utah. beaglie |
| Subject: | TLC |
| Date: | Oct 29 23:25 |
| Author: | Nightingale |
| I'm not sure if you're asking us to rework this thing off the board?
I'm thinking that thousands of heads are better than one at a time but I'll do whatever
you direct. For now, I'll say the following, obviously only my opinion, as a short-term,
non-USA convert. Priorities: Style and content will depend on what you decide about the following: One: Where? Choose your forum. (Salt Lake Trib or other paper/s or both?) Two: What? Decide on type of submission. (Letter to editor? Unsolicited article? Story as told to journalist?) This will help determine appropriate length. Length is a big determiner of what stays, what must be cut. Three: Define issue Briefly state the issue you wish to highlight. (Then, any passage that doesn't speak directly to that gets cut, no matter how much we love it.) I think it's crucial to choose the forum and type of submission that best suits not only the letter itself but also your purpose. It's possible you're trying to combine two purposes here and that might be what's making this more difficult for you. If your intent is to point out the church's hypocrisy re the freedom of speech issue, your letter can be brief, with only one or two references to examples of hypocrisy related to the church's own missionary work, in which case, a brief letter to the editor is enough and could easily be carved from your first draft here. If your intent is to expose more widely the inappropriate tactics taught to and used by church missionaries, then it's a longer piece, including more of your own and others' experiences, in which case, it's not a letter to the editor and it's not only about the freedom of speech/hypocrisy issue. It may help to consider using your account in more than one way and again, the forum and type of submission will dictate the content and length. So, for now, we could do a few paragraphs for a Trib letter to ed. Then you could use a longer version as an opinion piece, even a magazine article? So, cutting some of it now doesn't mean throwing it away, it's too excellent to remain unused in some way. So we have (I think): Letter to the editor, directed to the Salt Lake Tribune. This means it must be fairly brief and the Mormon terms can stay as is. Issue (as this non-Utahn ex-mo sees it - I know you can state it better, more accurately?): The Mormon church wants to ban protesters with alternative religious views from city-owned property in the vicinity of Temple Square, denying people their right to freedom of speech because their views are labelled "anti-Mormon". Yet, every day, all over the world, the church's own missionaries engage in the same activities as do the local protesters the church seeks to quash. The church claims for itself rights it aggressively tries to wrest from others. If that summary (or something like it) expresses your main point, TLC, then we need to bring out those ideas as clearly and briefly as possible. Regarding your specific questions here: I avoided editing your content before, as I didn't want to interfere with your words. When I mentioned the emotion in your letter, I didn't mean it is a negative - I think it's a big part of what makes the letter so compelling. But, if we're going for simplicity, brevity and clarity, perhaps this is not the time to include how you felt/feel about your mission experience. This means stating the facts briefly, leaving out feelings and thoughts. Also for the sake of brevity, one option is to leave out the lengthy accounts from the others, but perhaps include a memorable sentence or thought to back up the point that this is not only one person's opinion or experience, but that it's very common throughout every mission field. I looked back on Decon's thread about this and noted again some of the very good points people made there; among them: Jolimont: told not to go to bed before they had taught 4 discussions that day Elwood: phrase - (they preached) at the Vatican, at churches, on public sidewalks, and phrase: others had similar experiences and instructions from their leaders Skunk Puppet: phrase - in your face harassment of the native Catholic population even in their sacred places of worship These and other similar contributions could be included as brief references to indicate that it's a common experience. Re your conflict over use of the Italian term for the evening stroll custom: could you say something like "traditional family evening stroll", which indicates it's more than just a walk (even though this doesn't convey the deepness of your meaning about how distasteful mishie tactics are in interrupting this) because I agree that most readers won't get the significance from the Italian. ...Italy Rome. But to those not in the know, it would appear that I'm poorly edited. Using Italy Rome does validate my authenticity as a former Italian mish. And I thought that was important. I think a newspaper editor would change it around to Rome, Italy. Establishing your credibility is important but I don't see that it stands or falls on this one detail. Perhaps you could leave it as is, because that is what your mission location was named and because Mormons would recognize it as such. But, if the paper edits it, don't see it as a tragedy. I'm torn about leaving out Decon's contribution because it seems to me to be critical to the point that's being made. His description of the Temple of the Pillar is pivotal to my point. So, if you go with a briefer version, you could maybe still include this point, with some skilful editing. I understand the "hearsay" problem and am not sure how to resolve that. I need a lot of help with this decision. I think it's fine to include "a friend" type of comment because you're not called on to prove the contents of this letter as if you're on trial - if the paper publishes it, that gives you an acceptable level of credibility, IMO, that at least readers can trust it's not an out and out fabrication or exaggeration. After all, anyway, it's OP/ED, meaning by definition that it's your opinion and it's out there for anybody to challenge if they so wish. If someone is going to dismiss your letter or quarrel with your facts, fine, you can always send in a rebuttal to their rebuttal! As long as you know the info is accurate, I don't think this needs to be a problem. Perhaps you could even state that a third person account is necessary because your friend may suffer negative repercussions if his name was used? (Of course, this is a little off topic, depending on what you decide your focus is). I agree that the piece is too long for a letter and would only be publishable as an op-ed piece. Except, as above, if you cut it to the quick depending on what your purpose is... An overly emotional approach is not what I'm after and I need suggestions where those "overwrought" places are and how I can adjust them. Again, I think the emotion is part of what makes this so powerful but as a letter to the ed, it should be mostly basic and factual. I think you should sort out if you want it to be a letter to the ed or an opinion piece first, THEN that will help to dictate length and content. Even as an op-ed, it's too long and I know that. Suggestions on where to cut would be great. What type of piece do you want it to be? That would help with the cutting process. I would really like to help with further editing, TLC - I'll email you as you suggested. And yes, I am well aware of the irony in ME offering to help make it brief!! :) PS: I forgot to mention that Reformer's suggested draft on Decon's thread is worthy of a good look. It clearly presents facts and outlines the main issues well. Reformer also makes a good point about whether you should name the MP or not. |
| Subject: | Re: TLC |
| Date: | Oct 30 01:11 |
| Author: | Therrin |
| There have been comments about submitting this article to other
papers, and I just realized that regardless of where else, TLC should submit it to the Los
Angeles Times. I don't actually know how the LA Times is percieved nationally (given it's
local to me), but I'm almost positive they would publish it, and I think they would love
to do an article on Mormon missionary practices. I've caught articles last year on
apostate mormon gatherings, Polygamy Porter and Saint Provo Girl beers, and an article on
the author of a book on the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Part of their publishing undoubtedly had to do with the Salt Lake City olympics, and I don't know if there is an ex-mo on staff or not responsible for the articles(I'll see if I can find the author of at least one of the articles), but they are deffinately not opposed to offending the church. Just a thought. |
| Subject: | Oh, and TLC.... |
| Date: | Oct 30 04:03 |
| Author: | Tedd |
| I like it a ton! the letter kicks ass, I am no expert in the field
of journalism, but I liked it a lot. I am not one for long winded posts, but this one I
had to read, and was intrigued the whole way through. Ofcourse, maybe it has to do with
the fact that I served in Spain and can undertsnad everything, and relate to the entire
situation. It's good, send it as is. Tedd |
| Subject: | PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE send in this letter, I never thought about how true it is |
| Date: | Oct 30 02:05 |
| Author: | val |
| I never put two and two together, but that is soooo true. Those people in the plaza are EXACTLY like the mormon missonaries. Our zone leaders and MA's tried to coerce us to act like assholes on my mission. I felt bad I was such a backslider, NOW I'm warm with pride for what I wouldn't do. P.s. my mission president was from Hawaii, and wouldn't put us up to stupid stuff, but his henceman used to try and go behind his back and make like it was his idea. |
| Subject: | What memories.... |
| Date: | Oct 30 04:00 |
| Author: | Tedd |
| I too served in Spain, and I understand 100% where you are coming
from. I also understand the cultural similaities between Spain and Italy; in many ways
they are very similar, and much of it has to do with the Catholic culture. When I was on my mission in Spain they began a program called "the challenging and testifying missionary". We would approach people at their homes, in the park, or on the street, then proceed to "testify". The new mission pres, President Winkel (who is now a GA) would encourage us to walk up to people and "testify" that we knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is the true church of Jesus Christ. Let me give you all an example: My comp and I would be at the park, would scope out a person, or people, then approach them. We would introduce ourselves, then proceed to tell them that we were messangers from God. I don't remember any of the responses after that, I just know that what ever their response was, we would proceed to tell them that we were sent from God to tell them a message. We would say things such as; "I know that this is the one and only true church of God, and I testify in the name of Jesus christ that this is true" the torment we put people through was unreal, and not good. I always felt guilty because I didn't feel like I was a "true challenging and testifying missionary". Though I had more balls than most missionaries when it came to this sort of thing, I never felt like I was good enough at what I did. i felt like, if I had the true "spitit of the lord" that I would have more success... When the mission pres invoked this "challenging, and testifying missionary" rule, was towards the end of my mission, and at the time I felt even more unworthy, because I felt like I should have been more bold, and daring throughout my entire mission. I felt my entire mission was a failure( I only baptised about 8 people). All we did was annoy people in Spain, that's all we did. And the people in the smaller towns must really have been sick and tired of our shit... New missionaries came and went form the small towns over, and over. It was a never ending process of people getting tired of arrogant 19 year olds coming to tell them "the truth form God". Yet every person in the town knows who the Mormon missionaries are, and most have had more than enough oportunities to hear their redundant message. The whole thing was very pointless. My mission did more damage to me in the end than good. Tedd |
| Subject: | Getting it published |
| Date: | Oct 30 10:59 |
| Author: | Hank |
| Excellent letter. However I suspect that it won't be accepted for the S L Trib Reader's Public Forum due to its length. But if you submit it as an Op-Ed article, it might make it. Even those have length limits, and you may have exceed that. Check into that. Good luck. |
| Subject: | Church security ARRESTS peaceful people on the Main Street Plaza |
| Date: | Dec 20 11:37 2002 |
| Author: | Deconstructor |
| In another thread, Digrafid said: Unfortunately, the church does not "arrest" anybody for proselyting on their property, they escort them off. If the people don't want to leave, they call the police. The church doesn't have the "authority" to arrest anyone. Are you clear on the difference between the powers of the church and the powers of the state? That is a absolutely false. Church security accosted and arrested over 30 people on the Main Street Plaza before the 10th Circuit Court ruling on October. Most of the people that church security arrested were acting peacefully and respectful. Their only crime was quietly handing out leaflets and refusing to leave the plaza when Church security harassed them. Church security does have authority to arrest people on the plaza by calling them "citizen's arrests." City police recognize church security's citizen arrests and pick up the people that have been handcuffed by church security. This is well documented. The police records are undeniable and so are the news stories: http://www.slweekly.com/editorial/2002/city_2_2002-10-03.cfm http://www.truthandgrace.com/Images/ArrestPart1.pdf The fact is, people have served jail time in Salt Lake City for PEACEFULLY and RESPECTFULLY handing out Christian literature - the same thing Mormon missionaries do everyday all over the world. Once the church gets back the easement, these citizen arrests by church security will continue. And church security has a long list of things that they will not allow on the plaza: - any behavior the church finds offensive - smoking - sunbathing - bicycling - any illegal activity - any behavior the church finds indecent - any behavior the church finds obscene - any behavior the church finds vulgar - any behavior the church finds lewd - any speech the church finds disorderly - any dress or hairstyle the church finds indecent or a nuisance - any leafletting (peaceful or otherwise) not done by Mormon missionaries - any loittering the church finds a nuisance The notion that the church only wants to prevent loud and offensive protesting on the plaza is a complete distortion of the facts. The record shows that they have and will harass people for peaceful behaviors. How embarassing for Salt Lake City that the church shows no tolerance. When church security have arrested people on the plaza, usually a group of Mormons have gathered around to cheer the security guards and laugh at the person being held and take pictures. What a sight for all those tourists to behold in downtown Salt Lake. Digrafid asks if we Ex-Mormons know the difference between powers of the church and state. Well Digrafid, in Utah it's the Mormons that don't know the difference! |
| Subject: | My god, what a Nazi police state |
| Date: | Dec 20 11:43 |
| Author: | sonoflds |
| Haveing never lived in Utah I didn't realize the extent to which these people will go. While unfortunate, this is a good thing. Great change requires motivation of the masses. People are beginning to see the Church for what it is. I have heard several conversations among people not particularly following the story that they didn't know, "the Mormon Church was like this". |
| Subject: | I know what you mean... |
| Date: | Dec 20 11:49 |
| Author: | ExMoron |
| the whole time I was reading Deconstructor's post, I could hear "Hail Victory!" being shouted in my head. Nazi state indeed. :-( |
| Subject: | One of my "favorite" quotes |
| Date: | Dec 20 12:08 |
| Author: | sonoflds |
| I have substitued the word "anti" for the word
"jew" and the word "Mormon" for the word "Christian": "The "anti" is harmful to us . . . My feeling as a Mormon leads me to be a fighter for my Lord and Savior. It leads me to the man who, at one time lonely and without followers, recognized the "anti"s for what they were, and called on men to fight against them . . . As a Mormon, I owe something to my own people" This mans words were later voted as "so pious" that local Churches voted his words as the word of god. The man? Hitler |
| Subject: | Re: Church security ARRESTS peaceful people on the Main Street Plaza |
| Date: | Dec 20 11:59 |
| Author: | Tabernaque! |
| That is sickening! Forget the church for a moment, what the hell's wrong with the SLC PD?! In Montreal, where bar line-ups regularly stretch down the street and are controlled by bouncers, the police hold the bar employees equally responsible whenever a fight breaks out. Is the church hiring ex-cops for their security? |
| Subject: | Being arrested for handing out literature on Christ? What does the Mormon church have against Christ? And they wonder why people think they're not Christian! LOL! nt |
| Subject: | Citizens can and do arrest. No need to have official police power |
| Date: | Dec 20 12:01 |
| Author: | Cheryl |
| My son has arrested and held shop lifters in stores he's managed. I know a person who arrested a drunk driver on private property. These citizen arrests do happen every day. They are rare, but perfectly legal. I should think church security in SLC could arrest if my son and my friend could do it. |
| Subject: | True, but |
| Date: | Dec 20 12:10 |
| Author: | sonoflds |
| most states have a very specific statute for in store security and every other state of which I have head (about 30 in all) ONLY lets citicens arrest people for felonies. Otherwise, you would have people arresting others for the most minor of offenses. Utah is the only state of which I have heard (and as you can see haven't heard of them all) where citizens can arrest for misdemeanors |
| Subject: | Normally, I would say yes |
| Date: | Dec 20 15:15 |
| Author: | sonoflds |
| but I have come to learn that the laws in Utah are just bizarre. It's assault and battery, false imprisonment, etc. However, it seems to have been working that way and the police were taking them. I stand all amazed. |
| Subject: | Digrafid could just be uninformed, rather than a liar. |
| Date: | Dec 20 12:46 |
| Author: | John Corrrill |
| There is a difference between lying and speaking when your uniformed. Lying assumes you have the appropriate information. Now that you have informed Digrafid, if he continues stating that "the church does not arrest anybody", then he'd be a liar. |
| Subject: | I should warn my brother about this |
| Date: | Dec 20 18:31 |
| Author: | Adrienne |
| His punk band, Ciril is talking about a national tour, with a
possible stop in SLC in the summer. They're just talking about it now, but I may have to
warn the rest of his band to avoid Main Street Plaza like the plague since they all have
tattoos, and dress like punks. His vocalist even has long hair as well as being tattooed
all over. My brother is the only one who looks like he wouldn't get arrested because he
looks clean-cut because he's going to be a teacher. Utah, especially that area is just like a Nazi police state! |
| Subject: | A way to totally freak out the Morg security would be to |
| Date: | Dec 21 19:57 |
| Author: | Matt |
| have people hand out copies of official church literature. Wear a
badge identifying themselves as being form whatever organisation they were from, not
making any negative comments as to the Morg literature, just handing it out. What would security do? Arrest someone for handing out Morg literature? BTW, anyone making a citizens arrest in the UK who used handcuffs on ther person they arrested would be the person arrested by the police. |
Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org |