My parents converted from United Methodists to Mormonism when I was 4, so I didn't have much say in the matter. I guess I pretty much accepted the doctrine hook, line, and sinker. I left the church when I was 16, partially because my United Methodist friends had started to point out problems with the church, but mostly because I was the frequent target of the bullies in my quorum. After a rather sound beating on a camp out to the Oregon coast by the son of our ward's 1st Councilor and his friends, and continual harassment the entire week, I decided that enough was enough. Sure, you have many letters on this page from Mormons saying that my faith was weak and that was the reason I left, and that is partially true, but who wants to get beat up all the time? My parents, who by now had also decided that they had made a big mistake also and didn't believe in the church, left with me. We rejoined a Methodist congregation, and are happily rid of the LDS church. What a wonder it is being out! I now feel that I know the true meaning of being a Christian, and can't believe all the things I missed for those 12 years. My parents also benefited by my reading of how to get out, for they signed themselves out too.
Anyway, thanks for the help. Keep up the good work!
What an outstanding service you are providing! You have so much good stuff in one location, I access your page about 5 times a week and feel as though I've scratched the surface.
I am the pastor of Payson Bible Church in Payson, UT. We are about 14 miles from the campus of BYU, directly south on I-15. I was born here in Utah, and returned to be a church-planting missionary after Bible School and some years in a couple of churches. I trusted Christ as my savior at the age of 9 after my pastor(Ira Ransom) shared the good news with me.
While I was never LDS, all of my friends were, and I graduated from the Primary program because that is linked to the boy scouts program. In the teen years, they weave scouting and priesthood/future missionary things together so much that I pulled out. The break came one Wednesday night when I showed up for an MIA/scouting meeting and found they had foregone the whole night in order to have a testimony meeting. I was blown away seeing one after another of my friends walk up and burst into tears about stupid things and finishing with the standard 4-sentence testimony. I remember my face burning with embarrassment watching this, and I had a strong sense of being ripped off. Here I was just coming to an Explorer scout meeting, and I'm in a slobber-fest! I never returned.
I gorged on the Tanners' works in High School, but having more zeal than love, I did little more than tick my friends off when I drew my anti-Mormon sword. 20 years later, my motivation is love for the souls of a people I have known my whole life.
I note one dynamic about seeing my friends now as adults. They are polite with me, but aloof, and guarded in their speech. And they really don't care to look me up or try to get together. This is in contrast to our growing-up years, where we had unhindered fun together and some great talks. The interesting thing is WHEN they start to grow cold: around their first temple experience. I figure that that experience makes a change inside of them, and they are never the same. My personal opinion is that they have guilt, and their conscience is violated, and they don't want it to be revealed, especially to a non-member.
I've written enough. I just wanted to volunteer to help you if I can. I'm guessing that many of those who contact you are living within 30 minutes of my house. I know you have to be careful about confidentiality with those who write, and I respect that. I simply give you my address as someone to contact locally if anyone ever wants to talk about the Bible and ask questions.
Keep up the good work.
Lee Whitworth
leewhit@wasatch.com
Pastor, Payson Bible Church
751 N 750 E
Payson UT 84651
801-465-2225
I'll keep it brief, as your web site speaks for itself with respect to the volume of correspondence you must be asked to peruse on a daily basis! Who "woulda thunk" this topic could have such a wide impact?!
I'm not now, nor have I ever been, a Mormon. I began researching Mormonism in an attempt to understand and host without offense a new friend of mine who is, in fact, Mormon. She is intelligent, kind, respectful and, in short, pretty much everything I expect in a friend. I get the feeling, too, that she is becoming "disenchanted" with the Mormon church; she has asked me several questions about my religious upbringing and current beliefs without once offering anything which sounded even remotely judgmental or "conversionary."
I have been very moved by many of the postings on your site and wish I could help some of these people. While I will not actively seek to draw my friend away from her church, I hope that I can be there for her should she come to the conclusion to leave on her own. At least that way, unlike a lot of the people on you site, she'll have a friend outside the Church upon whom she can rely. That must be the hardest part of all . . . being isolated from all the "friends" and support systems you once had because they were all offsprings from the church.
I am also amazed by the audacity of the Mormon church and its leaders! Certainly, all Christian (and probably Judeo, as well) history has experienced some "rewriting" throughout the centuries. The Bible was written, after all, by human men, and what human ever comes to the table without some personal agenda, despite his good intentions and God-inspired rhetoric?! But to baldly present 100% fictional events, places, etc. and then, when questioned, retort something along the lines of "read the Book of Mormon and it will be revealed to you?! What are we? Stupid?! Sheep?!
Kudos to you for opening up what appears to be a much-needed forum! I give you and all the others posting here my heart-felt support, however etheral it may be in this cyber-world! All the best to you and your family!
Nancy ... Chicago, IL
I "fell away" from mormonism during the fall of my senior year in high school (1976). It was another 13 years before my anger, bitterness and resentment passed. It also took two years in a clinical depression. But now I am much stronger for it - "That which does not kill me makes me stronger."
I was born into mormonism and my earliest memories are ties to church. I can still remember the words to "Give Said the Little Stream" and "The Golden Plates" - a remarkable job of molding young minds. All through Sunday School, Primary, MIA, Boy Scouts, Explorers, Deacons, Teachers, Priest and Elder - I did it all and was a very good boy. I was chosen to leadership positions at every level (except as an Elder). I kept my relations with "non-members" to a minimum. Non-members were not worthy of a good mormon's friendship and besides, in my time if you had a non-member friend you were supposed to be extremely vigilant in "converting" them. By my mid- to late teens I guess I was just too embarrassed to try to convert everyone I knew (as a child I did).
All of my brothers served on missions and it was taken for granted that I too would serve. But by high school I was beginning to have serious doubts about the church. I NEVER would allow myself to admit that until September of 1975 when I was made an Elder and the countdown to missionary-ville was started. (I never went through the temple other than baptism for the dead.) At that time I realized that in my heart I just did not believe any of it. I stopped going to seminary, my church attendance lagged and in January 1976 I told my bishop the truth - I didn't believe in the Joseph Smith fable or the mysticism of spirits and demons and visions and Jesus speaking to you in dreams, etc. It was a shock to him as I was always such a good boy who did and "believed" was he was told to. I made the journey out of the church alone - very alone.
My mother made a half-hearted attempt to disown me but it didn't take. She couldn't do that. (My parents had divorced when I was 13 - my father, I learned much later, couldn't live the lie anymore. He was excommunicated and his memory was considered evil. I did not have contact with him again until I was 22 years old.)
The journey lasted until after I was more than 30 years old. I made the journey alone and have come out the other side so much stronger. I no longer allow the church to rule me as it had during the journey. My anger and resentment kept me from growing past the influence of the church. Now at 40 I can look back and see both the positives and the negatives of my childhood in mormonism.
Positives
A sense of community. I've never found anything like that strong, caring community.
Public speaking skills.
Leadership opportunities.
A chance to deal with adults in an adult manner.
Ethics: honesty, loyalty, hard work, sacrifice.
The double-edged sword of the importance of education. I believe that if mormons want to survive they should have private schools. An education that teaches you to think for yourself is antithetical to the mormon viewpoint.
The stigma, at minimum, on thinking for yourself. Blind obedience is required - they call it faith. To me faith is the belief in something for which there is no evidence. It does not, however, preclude looking for evidence to support or deny the belief. I remember how uncool it was for someone to disrupt seminary/sunday school with questions. You were just supposed to accept it.
Elitism. The mormons are incredibly self-righteous. To KNOW that you are right and everyone else is wrong - what a seductive tool to keep members and attract "converts". This also works with the paranoia/persecution complex that mormons have. Every time someone questions (ATTACKS!!) a belief confirms that mormons are RIGHT.
Supernaturalism. From the outside mormons look so rock solid and down-to- earth. However from inside this is a church that believes the world is full of spirits and ghosts and demons and faith-healing and magic underwear and visions. Of course I've since found that Joseph Smith and family were into supernaturalism. The church was based on the tales (mostly borrowed) of a born and bred storyteller and embellisher. (Aren't the televangelists his spiritual descendants?)
Sexual Repression. You're taught its bad until you get married and then suddenly you should turn 180 degress and f*** (self-consored) like bunnies until you've got all the kids that you "should" have. Golly, maybe my first steps down the road to disbelief were when I got that temple recommend and did baptism for the dead even though I was a frequent masturbator (and the gates of the temple didn't close in my face - maybe you can fool god). How difficult it's been to get over 18 years of hearing how evil it is to feel sexual until marriage. How sad it is that I didn't date until after I left mormonism. I just knew that if I kissed a girl (a good mormon girl only of course) that I'd get a hardon, she'd know and I'd be excommunicated on the spot.
All of this time later, how do I feel? Any god that would prefer me to live a lie rather than be true to myself and my heartfelt beliefs is not a god that I want anything to do with. You can (and should) search endlessly for what to believe in but ultimately you will find it within yourself. If it was easy it wouldn't be worth the search. My journey is not over but the burdens of hate and resentment and guilt have been put aside and I accept the positives that I gained growing up mormon. The negatives just aren't worth carrying.
It has been since November 1996 that I privately acknowledged that I did not believe in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I write this because I am an idealist and feel I have a duty to stand up and be counted as an apostate of an organization that is not what it claims to be.
I left the church because I had faith in it.
If you have ever been to a Mormon church service on the first Sunday of the month, you have been to what is called "Fast and Testimony Meeting". It is an opportunity for Mormons to stand before the congregation and "bear their testimony." The testimony of a believing Mormon include the following:
· I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the
only true church in all the earth
· I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God
· I know that the Church is lead by a prophet today
· I know that the Book of Mormon is the word of God
By the time I was 14 (probably around that time), I began to feel it was time for me to gain my own testimony. After all everyone must have their own. The process of gaining a testimony is straight forward. You get a testimony of the truthfulness of the restored gospel by reading the Book of Mormon and asking God if it is His word. He has promised to answer. If the Book of Mormon is true, everything else falls into place. Joseph Smith had to be a prophet because he translated the ancient record. The church Joseph organized had to be the true church because he was God's prophet. Everything that Mr. Smith taught had to be true because he spoke for God.
Maybe I was simplistic in my expectations but, I expected an answer. I had been taught that the process may not be easy and may take some time, but I was willing to work for the confirmation. It is important to understand that from the time I was 14 years old until I was 30, I believed that God would answer my sincere request to know whether or not I was participating in His true church. In Fast and Testimony meeting people spoke with conviction. Mormon leaders spoke with conviction. They said they KNEW! What is more, they said that anyone could know with absolute certainty that Mormonism was true! It was just a matter of time before I would share this same conviction. God said so through Moroni (see Moroni 10:4). And, I believed He would keep his word.
By the time I turned 19 I had read the Book of Mormon five or six times. I had attended early morning gospel study classes for four years (seminary). Because I had not gained my testimony yet, I was still asking God to give me the knowledge, the conviction, that what I was studying and being taught was the capital 'T' truth. The need for conviction was becoming increasingly important as the age of nineteen is when every worthy Mormon boy is expected to go on a two year mission to teach others the restored gospel.
On September 15, 1985, I began serving a two year mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I can remember kneeling in the Mission Training Center in Provo, Utah praying with all the fervor I could muster to know that Joseph Smith was God's prophet and that the church he restored was the only true church on the face of the earth. The certainty never came. I did manage to convince myself that I probably did have a testimony in embryo. I trusted that the certainty I sought would still come.
After I left the training center in Provo, Utah, I went to the Venezuela, Caracas Mission. I had to adjust to spending all my time with another missionary, and I had to adjust to being immersed in full time proselytizing work. The changes in my life style coupled with my drive to gain a testimony created no small stress in my life. Fortunately, the strain would abate. At some point in the mission field, the personal need I felt to know the truth got crowded out by the need to BAPTIZE. The peer pressure and leadership pressure to produce, at least in my mission, was intense. After all, that is why you go on a mission. The only thing that mattered was BAPTIZING.
I was focused! There were 20 million people in Venezuela that needed to be baptized, and it was my job to do it. It is hard for me to admit it, and I may not realize even now the extent of my mania, but I must have been a real jerk. I know for a fact that I baptized people who consented simply so I would leave them alone. At the time, I could not have cared less why some one got baptized. I never thought about why people were getting baptized. I believed that everyone needed to be baptized into the Mormon church by whatever means necessary. Somewhere I had picked up conviction, and I liked it.
By the end of my mission, I thought I had a testimony of the truthfulness of the restored gospel. I had shared this testimony with hundreds of people. I no longer needed to seek the knowledge from God, because I had repeated it to myself and others so many times that I thought that I knew. Not just that I knew, but that I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt. I truly believed this at one point.
You may be surprised to hear, but it probably did not take more than six months to a year after leaving Venezuela for the conviction I thought I had gained in the mission field to fade. At this point if you asked me if I had a testimony I would have quickly answered, "Of course!" I remembered my testimony I had shared so often with others on my mission, but there was no conviction in my heart.
After the mission, I enrolled at BYU. Somewhere along the line I started praying for the knowledge of the truthfulness of the gospel, again. Although the fire of my mission had burned out, I still held every confidence that eventually, in God's time if I was sincere, God would bless me with the knowledge of the truthfulness of the restored gospel and of the Book of Mormon and of Joseph Smith. I had been taught from my earliest days that Mormonism was true and that there were no other options! Still, I started to wonder why God was not answering me. I thought it must be my fault. I thought I needed to try harder.
Eventually, I must have tired from the years of lifting up pleas to God. But, maybe it was more than me just getting tired. God knows I tried to be a good LDS member. God knows I tried to develop a testimony of the restored gospel. My efforts were in vain. I felt abandoned. I still prayed on occasion, but I felt my prayers went no where. These were prayers of empty desperation asking God where He had gone. "Why are you not listening to me!?"
Before leaving Mormonism I did not criticize the church leaders. I did not read ANTI-MORMON literature. I never considered the possibility of finding truth outside of the Mormon system. I have given the Church two full-time years of my life, countless hours of meeting time, hundreds of hours of service project time, thousands of dollars, and fully furnished, faith filled room of hope in the back of my brain. All I ever wanted was the spiritual truth of them to be made manifest to me by the power of God. It never happened.
I have since read quite a lot of anti-Mormon literature. Some of it I believe some of it I do not believe. I bear the burden of evaluating the evidence presented and assessing its sufficiency. I understand now that there are many very good reasons why I never received a testimony. Sometimes I wish I could have gained an unwavering testimony. It sounds so nice. It answers so many questions. But, now that I am out, I will never be able to go back. Having all the answers is not nearly as rewarding as searching for them.
This has been about testimony. How could I possibly close without sharing my testimony with you now? It is a simple testimony that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I know very little about anything. It is my hope that throughout the rest of my life I will never assert to have all of the answers. Let me continue to pursue God or Truth or The-Meaning-of-Life. Let me cling to faith in some things unseen, but let me discard beliefs where the evidence will not support the faith.