RM, former TBM, almost 40, married to a TBM, with 4 kids, one who was just born 6 weeks ago.

Despite my many children, I am in a pretty much sexless marriage. My wife does not enjoy sex, and is pretty much passionless.

I understand that post-partum, women have hormonal changes that cause them to have less desire. Besides, she is truly a great mother, and I admire her devotion and late nights. She is probably tired, and I get that.

But, this lack of desire is not new at all. Indeed, it has been pretty much a constant in our marriage and the source of many fights. Even if I do everything "right" take her out on a date, shower, etc, I will still have to rub her motionless back for a long time until she concedes and allows us to have sex. It is like a long dance, to get her into the mood. Sometimes in works, but rarely. And even when she does have sex, most of the time it is without kissing or intimacy, she is really not that into it.

I don't know if some primary teacher told her that sex was bad, but she does not want sex.

Often we won't have sex for a long time, and such animosity grows that I blow up. I get so frustrated I yell at her. Within a few days of this happening, she will give herself to me, but it can sometimes require that sort of expressed frustration for her to get it.

I have been faithful to her. Never strayed. We have young children, and I need to stay in this marriage.. and I really do love her. I have tried to speak to her about this so many times. I have tried to explain to her that I want her, not just sex with anyone. It does not help. I really do believe if we could just have sex more than 1-2 a month, I would be very happy with her. I want her to have passion. I want her to want me.. but she doesn't. Lately, I have even worked out to become more fit, losing weight... nothing.

So, for the past years, it has just been me, masturbating early in the morning, because it makes things easier.

She just had a baby,,, so I am probably overreacting. But I am tired of it. This morning I snuggled her, rubbed her back etc. She gave some excuse again. I told her that when she wanted sex, she could come to me, because I am tired of initiating sex, in vain. I am tired too.

I have seriously thought about getting an escort on a business trip. But this won't solve the true problem. But at least, even if it is pretend, I can have a hot sexual encounter. I mean this with sincerity, I am attracted to my wife, and if she would just be interested in hot sex, I would be fully satisfied.

Call me a pig. I am ready for it. Maybe I am one.

This is why I have come to realize that no sex before marriage is a horrible, horrible idea. I feel fir you man, I was in a similar situation and now my marriage is done, and I have found thr grass really is greener on the other side.

I have experienced it, albeit briefly. Trust me, it is frustrating for her as well. It is frustrating to have no desire for (or even dread!!) Sexual contact when you love your husband and know that it is hurting him.

See a doctor. A regular gyno. Everyone here will tell you to go to therapy. That may be necessary, but it is just as likely, if not more so, to be a physical problem.

She may truly me asexual, who knows, but she may also have an imbalance that has lasted much of her adult life.

Yea, I could substitute me into your situation and I would totally recognize it. You have kids, they are little, you need to help raise them, and that means staying in a sexless marriage. I get that. I gave up on sex with my wife. She just hurt me too much over the years, and now we're done with sex.

Life is not easy, but as men we live to "row the boat". "Row well and live 51" ("Ben Hur", the movie, the senator to the galley slave, Chuckie Heston).

Row well, and live.

I'm sorry, I know how hard it is to go through that. I have been there and it really is awful... our relationship is so good when our sex life is good...but when its not, things get so strained.

Have you talked to your wife about the way you feel? You really need to, and see if she would be willing to get help. Her hormones could be out of whack.. maybe there is something that can help her get a healthy sex drive.

Another thing that I think will help is, give her attention without expecting sex in return. Give her those backrubs without an agenda. She will know and appreciate the difference... backrubs without guilt are much better than the alternative. Let her come to YOU for the sex when she is ready... hopefully that makes for better sex for you guys.

+1 to agenda free back rubs, and to therapy.

Actually, 1-2 times a month with 4 kids isn't all that bad (I'm assuming they are young and need a lot of attention). Of course, 1-2 times week would be better...

Seems to me that you need to do more talking about the subject with your wife. You say you do everything right but I wonder how she feels about that. What is your source for "right" anyway?

People have different sex drives and different needs for intimacy. If every time you snuggle up and rub her back means you want to jump her, maybe that puts her off intimacy altogether?

I see nothing wrong with using escort services discreetly when you get no sex at home.

Stop having kids and your wife may bounce back into a more willing partner after some time.
Child birth can often make a women feel asexual - but only for a while, not forever.

If she is not willing to accommodate you, well then you may have to make some decisions.

Sex is not everything, but I it IS an important part of a marriage.
There is no reason why she could not satisfy you orally or manually until her desire returns.

Perhaps a female member of the board here could give you a hand.

There's a topical cream for that. Seriously.
I don't remember the name for it but she applies the cream and it has who-knows-what in it to get her going.
Check with your doctor as he should be able to locate the name of that cream and write out a perscription.

oh, and to add to the above note about finding that topcial gettin-in-the-mood cream --- take some tantric classes together or sexual counselling.
That may be a little scary for her at first, but strike up a bartering deal with her if she'll take this up with you.

Many women (myself included) was mind-trapped from my sexual training in mormonism. There was a lot of head stuff happening for me concerning sex and a lot of women raised or effected in this way cannot let go. I was the same way and I understand.
Training is important. The woman in this situation has to learn how to be a sexual partner in a relationship and why that's important. There were no young womens classes unfortunately.

She has to understand how it's often important to set weekly sex goals whether your body or emotions wants them or not. Sometimes sex is a labor of love, but it's important to give sex a main priority as it is a glue that can strengthen a relationship.....even when she doesn't want to. Otherwise the woman is uneducated and selfish - not a partner where sex is concerned in their relationship.

That's why she needs sex counselling. She's not factoring you into the relationship, nor is she factoring sex into the relationship. She needs help understanding the importance of it all.


And the big thing to remember is to teach her the gravity of this partnering in sex.
Be patient with her, one day you may find that you will need her to be patient with you if you find yourself physically unable to have sex anymore.

I have tried to speak to her about it so many times. I rub her back because that is what she says she needs.

Regarding intimacy. I try to kiss or hug her sometimes and she pulls away. Her parents are not that emotional as well. Her oldest brother has vocally complained that his parents lack emotional expression, and it has caused him problems.

I don't just want sex. I want intimacy. I want passion. I want to be wanted.

Given Up Wrote:
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> I don't just want sex. I want intimacy. I want
> passion. I want to be wanted.


And you deserve that. I doubt you'd get that from an escort though.

You are right!

I was really considering divorce because my wife and I had similar problems. We finally got a counselor that worked for us and then we found out the church wasn't true. We found that eliminating the garments had helped her self image and she feels sexy, she can now read her smut books without guilt, she allows me to take care of myself if she is genuinely unable to meet my needs which has taken away her guilt and shame from feeling like she was a horrible wife because she couldn't meet my needs. All this has resulted in adding new flame to our marriage.

I agree that it could be medical, but it's equally likely that it is mental or emotional. She might even have a history of abuse that could be making sex a bad experience for her. Seek ever help possible, but if that doesn't work, remember that you deserve to be happy to and your children deserve to know what a happy life looks like.

Hi,

Don't.

You would be destroying a family...for what? An orgasm?

And you'd be putting your life at risk: HPV, hepatitis, HIV.

Then, if you had sex with your wife in the future, you'd be putting her life at risk.

Are you seriously that dumb?

You have far more than most people do. Don't throw it away.

Steve

I agree with Steve. Seriously, I have 4 kids. I have at times been totally turned off by the idea of sex. My life was changing diapers, vomit, boogers, tantrums cooking and cleaning. I felt like crap. Depressed. Same thing day after day. Sometimes you end up in that place where things that were once enjoyable just are not. It also may be the programming from the morg.You know, the girls are taught that sex is bad, sex is a sin, sex is for procreation, you are dirty after having sex, they at no time tell you it's natural, or that it can be enjoyable. Something you share with someone you love. I would talk to her, at a time when there are NO expectations on either of you. explain how you feel and that maybe it would help if you both went to counseling. Not just her. It will make her feel like she is the problem, or it will put her on the defense blaming you and making you out to be a selfish pig. If you love your wife, do it together.

I don't blame you. I am truly sorry for your situation. It must be maddening. I may get a lot of smacking for even mentioning this name, but...Dr. Laura has a book called "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands." I read it in my TBM days, excited at the thought of getting married someday. I even got it signed when she came to the bookstore where I work. There is story about a female caller who was tired of sex and gave her husband money for a prostitute. He swent, but when he thought of their new baby daughter, he couldn't go through with it. The woman STILL complained about him.

There is a chapter about husbands' deep physiological need to be desired by his wife. When wives complain that they "just don't want to", she responds with, "I bet you expect him to go to work when he doesn't feel like it. You expect him to visit your family, take the trash out, do home repairs, etc, etc." She suggests that wives should see sex as recreational for BOTH OF THEM. And initiate once in a while, so their husband doesn't feel like a beggar. It opened my eyes years ago, and I'm not even married.

I know there are much more complicated issues here with kids, and TSCC.

My uber-TMB stepmother left her first husband, claiming he was an alcholic and had porn. His "alcoholism and porn use" didn't stop her from leaving half of their kids behind with him, when she and my dad moved to another state to get rich in real estate. Of course, the whole family has to congratulate her for leaving him, while not mentioning that she left the kids behind. After knowing her for 16 years, I don't blame him for needing the occasional beer and porn.

Yes, it would be a BAD idea to go to an escort...but, I don't blame you for wanting to.

Yes. Please do not add any more kids to this currently broken marriage.

Cinnamint Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a chapter about husbands' deep
> physiological need to be desired by his wife.
> When wives complain that they "just don't want
> to", she responds with, "I bet you expect him to
> go to work when he doesn't feel like it. You
> expect him to visit your family, take the trash
> out, do home repairs, etc, etc." She suggests
> that wives should see sex as recreational for BOTH
> OF THEM. And initiate once in a while, so their
> husband doesn't feel like a beggar. It opened my
> eyes years ago, and I'm not even married.
>
>


not a Dr. L fan, but.... I think she's right.
Too much info but I was a lot like given-up's wife.
:(
I wasn't taught how to be a sexual partner in young womans or by my parents. My parents rarely showed physical affection for each other in public.
It becomes a fear-filled thing and sometimes a selfish thing too.
Many women (and men do this too by the way) are extremely selfish sexual partners and don't look at sex as a giving partnerships and essential part of a good relationship.

That's why I added to my earlier reply to insist on sex therapy as part of a healthy marriage.
Having sex before marriage still wouldn't guarantee that your mate has a healthy sex partner attitude.
Where was your wife trained to be a healthy sexual partner in her relationship? Nowhere!

Maybe make baby #4 your last one? Adding more children is not going to help you in this area.

Thanks for your post Jonanthantech

I absolutely agree. No more babies. Got a vasectomy. Wife wanted more than I do. I admit I love our children.!

Good for you, I'm amazed at the number of Mormons who think that adding kids means a better marriage. I've had single people ask me if my marriage is stronger now. Haha, no, I have to fight that little thing for some wife attention.

I do love my daughter, so I'm not mad at all, I remember feeling the way you did at 6 weeks and extrapolating the future from that point. So don't make any long-term decisions at this point, you just have to fight through until the youngest is a bit older and then try to fix what needs fixing.

There's too much fatigue mixed with post-birth hormones that any other solution that would normally help might be more harmful than anything.

TW-RM Wrote:
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> There's too much fatigue mixed with post-birth
> hormones that any other solution that would
> normally help might be more harmful than anything.


That may be true, but I will at this point use one of the profit Kimball's catch phrases when I was growing up and apply it here to this issue.

DO IT.

yeah, Kimball wasn't teaching how to have a healthy sex partnership when that was the 1970's - 80's catch phrrase, BUT HE SHOULD HAVE!!!! He had the motto DO IT in his office and it became a missionary motto, which shows where the priority for training and teaching lies --- not in relationships that's for sure. (Kimball's book Miracle of Forgiveness was so twisted with sexual repression and fear that he never could put the correct focus where it needed to be.)

I'm taking a lot of pleasure in revamping church calling Kimball's Do IT phrase and applying it to a sexual partnerships to make a marriage stronger and healthier.

Do it when you don't want to.
Do it because it will make your relationship better and therefore your family will benefit.
Set a weekly dates to DO IT.
Not doing it could wreck your relationship.
Sex is a relationship priority - just DO IT!
Your wife could think of sex as a part of her eternal marriage relationship and do what it takes even when she doesn't want to. She makes supper when she doesn't feel like it doesn't she? She does it to keep her body alive. She needs to transfer this to keeping her partnership marriage alive too.

If you have enough money ($1000 and up) to spend you can get what you want -- a nice clean attractive woman who will give you the Total Girlfriend Experience™ for a weekend far away from home. Just make sure you are nowhere near friends, family, colleagues or any one else who would recognise you. The girl knows it's not forever. That's what she's paid for.

Before embarking on this course of action you need to ask yourself if there is something else wrong in your marriage besides a lack of sex.

Going outside your marriage for sex is a really bad idea. How about considering this:

Get a vasectomy now. While your wife is healing more, so will you. That ought to keep your mind off things for a bit.

Then take over bedtime for the kids, like baths, stories, and tucking in (and arguing over bedtime too). After the kids have baths done, ask your wife if you can draw a warm bubble bath for her while you read stories and tuck in the kids.

Afterwards, read up on female anatomy and find many books and articles about female orgasm. After you have a great collection and have been doing the nighttime routine for the kids for a few weeks, share your findings and ask her if she would like you to experiment.

it might work and be fun too.

I have been in exactly your circumstances. As you said, the problem is the lack of true intimacy, passion and respect. I was a walking ATM machine and occasional dildo when she wanted satisfaction.

In my case, it turns out my ex has borderline personality disorder. Look it up. (Note that one sign is hypersexuality, though this is often only at the start of a relationship or when the relationship is threatened.)

Cheating, however, is a really bad idea at many levels. You did make a commitment and there are STDs and you aren't going to find intimacy with a whore. Moreover, if you get caught, and you probably will, you will likely lose custody and maybe your job. You could also be arrested and get a criminal record. Have fun getting a job after that.

When I was at the worse part of my marriage, I was helped by other men with similar relationships (to my knowledge, none were LDS.) One in particular had an affair and deeply regretted it.

I strongly advise that you go to counseling ASAP. Set an appointment and tell your wife that you are going and invite her to join you. (For years, I made the mistake of asking my then-wife first, starting just after we'd gotten married. In the end, I resolved to just go and if she didn't join me, then that was my answer to whether to file for divorce.)

I truly hope you can fix your marriage. If you can't, divorce else you will lose your mind. This is no exageration.

Strongly STRONGLY advise: NO MORE CHILDREN!!!

Overall, this is the most important priority you need to keep ALWAYS in mind.

Second: Get a copy of THE FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES: How To Express Heartfelt Commitment to Your Mate, by Gary Chapman. (There are a number of different "Love Languages" books by Gary Chapman: focusing on children, teenagers, singles, etc. All are good. If you can't find the original one, you can temporarily substitute with one of the other ones.) They are available in most any bookstore, in most any Christian bookstore (he began as a Christian marriage counselor), or on www.abebooks.com or www.amazon.com )

Figure out what your "Love Languages" are...and what your wife's "Love Languages" are, IN ORDER. You need to know BOTH of your Love Languages in order to put this information to work.

From what you have written, it is very likely that your wife's "Touch" Love Language is number five (or number four). Find out what her first Love Language is, and then begin systematically "speaking" to her in THAT Love Language (as well as Numbers Two and Three, although in lesser "amounts").

As you will learn from the books (because this is what the author discovered in his marriage), "speaking" your love through vacuuming the house can have marvelous effects on a marriage if your wife's first Love Language is "acts of service." The same is true for the other Love Languages. "Speak" to your wife through HER Love Languages and see what effects this might have on your own marriage.

You also need to learn what your own Love Languages are. Both my husband and I are Number One Touch people, and we have a MARVELOUS relationship with each other, and we have also both come to realize that Number One Touch people are probably the fewest number of people in our society. Had we not met at what amounted to a "Touch" event many years ago, we would probably have never met. But if you NEED Touch, then nothing else will substitute.

I hope this helps. You have (in my own personal opinion) a beastly problem, and as a Number One Touch person, I empathize with you more than you can very probably possibly understand. (I was married before, to a totally NON-Touch person. I KNOW the difference!)

Sex is a wonderful thing to bring couples together. However it is also a need like food. If she aint cooking go out to eat. Its not love or betrayal in my eyes its a ned that needs to be met.

I have been there. she just did not want to. No counseling, talk or trip to the sex shop changed that for a long time. We separated and I dated. It met my needs. But often, just like a hornry RM will often get engaged and married just for sex, we married men often make bad decisions based on not making sex important enough. Talk to her and go get a meal.

Just a thought here, I haven't read the others comments yet, but is it possible that sex hurts your wife? I want you to explore this topic without feeling offended but many times sex is painful for women and then the woman wants no part in it.

Since she's had a few kids and is currently freshly post partum, I'm willing to bet that she's had extended periods of not being able to get wet enough, or to stay wet enough. Particularly if she breastfeeds as nursing affects hormone levels in that way (for many women, not all).

Consider whether or not she is experiencing pain, embarrassment, and/or subsequent feelings of inadequacy.

For a long time pain during sex was a regular thing for me, particularly after I had my first kid. It seemed like no matter what we did I couldn't stay wet enough. I felt really bad about myself, like something was wrong with me. Later I learned that because my husband is circumcised, he has sex in a different way than nature intended men to function. There are a lot of details about this that you can find from googling but I will say that once we addressed the fact that circumcision had affected our sex life negatively, we were able to work around it and sex between us has improved vastly.

Like I said, I don't want to offend you or get too personal, but it's possible that your wife wants you but can't stand the thought of more sex, particularly if sex is painful for her.

Talk to her, try to get her to tell you what's going on.

I didn't read everyone else's replies. I am sorry this is a bummer. I am a mom with young kids and I don't understand this. I don't know what is up with your wife but for me if my man wants me in the mood he does chore play. Helping clean the kitchen frees me of a tremendous burden.

My husband leaves me little notes all the time. They do not cost anything and I know he loves me. It sounds like you do a lot of things like that with the massages but I am trying to give you ideas for quick and easy other things you can do.

Maybe if you wrote her a letter telling her all the things you love about her and then try to explain how you need more sex. Ask her for what she thinks you should do.

I do not think an escort is your best bet. I do understand how difficult it is for you but if your kids found out you would be the bad guy forever in there eyes.

Good luck.

Going to a sex worker might make your marriage bearable, but you could end up resenting your wife even more when paid sex is so easy to get, so free of all that stuff clogging up your marriage. Hell, a decent pro will even act like she's really into you.

However, unless the escort comes highly recommended by someone you trust, it's a crapshoot. She could be a great, fun, fulfilling experience, or a really disappointing (or even dangerous) time.

If she just had a baby, it could take awhile for her to feel sexy again.

It could be postpartum depression or just classic depression. It could also be any medications she's taking. Stuff like that drops sex drives like a rock.

Either way, as much as an escort sounds nice, not all of them will put out.

My heart and feelings go out to you. I suffered through this very same thing that you have described. I went through this for 16 unhappy years. yes your kids are important to you but how do you fill about your church and your faith? My ex thought that sex was dirty and nasty she was taught this by her mother and also by her lds teachings. I was in the very same position that you say that you are in now. It is a tough spot to be in. I moved on but I stayed close to my kids and things worked out for me and I still have a close relationship with all 6 of my kids. I am now in my fifties and I never knew how great sex was. I have a great wife that wasn't raised in the lds faith and she is just the opposite of what I had and what I had to go through. Life is to short to try and change someone who is so far into their crazy lds faith, if you could get her away from that influence and she could possibly be saved and so could your marriage. She does need your help and support around the house but if she doesn't want to change anything you need to make a very important choice. Do not go out and look for a quick fix thats not going to help. You need to fix the problem between you and her do not bring someone else into your life right now. Find a solution that you both will be able to try if she is willing. If not get out of your marriage, my life and especially my SEX life has made me a very happy person. Its nice to be able to talk and communicate with a wife that talks and thinks like you. Again life is very short, good luck with what you have to do.