For me it is, hands down, the idea of a happy, Cinderella-style Mormon marriage. It's hard sold to all Mormon girls that they should marry in the temple to an RM, handsome prince and you will be his princess and live happily ever after.

We all know it doesn't work like that.

And even though I'm great friends with my husband, we've been married a very long time, raised two kids etc. it's never, ever been a fairy tale. I now think it's rather mean and selfish to put that much pressure on a guy - to make his wife's life complete. I know that should be my job to make my life complete. I certainly prefer being married to my best friend rather than some of the men I see my Mormon girl friends married to. Yet I still feel I was promised a fairy tale I didn't get. Logical mind knows that's crazy - but getting over those feelings the Mormons planted, watered and grew in me is much harder than I thought it would be.

But that's just me. Other people have trouble feeling OK with not being busy, or have trouble not judging others or are too hard on themselves. Lots of people have trouble tolerating others disagreeing with them or want still to be passive aggressive. I'm sure there are many more. Some wrong mindsets taught to you as children are a &#%@^ to get over. Long after Mormonism is completely debunked and denied.

The church never taught me self-worth outside the context of the church. I scrambled a moment after I found out it was a fraud to figure out why I was important.

I currently still have some self-doubt about my intrinsic worth, but it's on a much firmer foundation then the lie that is the church.

This is why I don't want my daughter doing that Young Women's program where they set goals and have a special fireside to celebrate what they've accomplished. Because it interweaves self-worth with the church, basing all goals and praise for accomplishment on the church, instead of the girl. Exactly what you said. Thanks for putting words to something that has been bothering me, that I was unable to fully explain.

"be ye therefore perfect"

I suppose that one of unique Latter Day Saint requirements
that I've had a hard time dropping, is the teaching that
we should make restitution when we "sin" against another
person -- that merely asking forgiveness is not enough.

I still stumble over that one -- and especially when I
somehow mistreat my wife. Generally she just wants an
apology and not financial/physical restitution. It comes
across as an insult when I fall back into the old Mormon
teaching on this point.

UD

I had a little anxiety/fear to get over about talking smack about Joseph Smith Jr. :-)

I had that same anxiety when I stopped wearing garments. For a while, I thought for sure something bad would happen to me and all the Momos would smugly smirk and think I deserved it. It didn't stop me from getting rid of them but I was anxious just the same. I'm way over it now though.

Those three degrees of glory. I don't want to go to hell. I don't want to be away from my family for eternity. That still haunts..

The sexism against women. Also, that it is okay not to have a ton of kids.

I stil have trouble with thinking that by doing good deeds that I can gain favor in God's eyes. Sometimes I get caught up in thinking that God owes me for all the good stuff I'm doing. Then I realize, God doesn't owe me a damn thing.

Judging potential romantic partners based on the existence of a sex life.

basing my self worth on arbitrary standards

My first bout was with the fear of not knowing if God exists (agnosiophobia?), fear of being hopeless, and possibly being wrong about TSCC. My second bout with doubt resolved these issues pretty quickly. I thought I resolved my previous doubts, but in reality they were just on the shelf.

I came to this conclusion:
1) I don't know 100%, but I can be pretty sure that the reason there are so many religions is because humans create them, so humans must have created God.
2) I have hope in myself, not in some imaginary sky-daddy.
3) I'm pretty sure that I'm not wrong about TSCC being a fraud.

The idea of a pre-existence. Dying and going nowhere has never frightened me one bit. But I really fell hard for the idea that I was something like I am now before I was born and maybe even chose my family and place of birth. I don't think I did anything particularly good to get my parents or family but just the idea that something came before the here and now is sort of seductive. Can't seem to shake the idea. I don't know if it is because it is a kind of novel idea or if it is because I'm egocentric. Just don't know. But I sure hope there is no reincarnation. The idea of groundhog day over, and over, and over, and over. Sheer HELL.

Cali - I'm the opposite. Reincarnation makes sense to me and the pre-existence didn't matter but the idea of ceasing to exist scares me. Which is ridiculous because wasting time being scared of something inevitable I can't change has to be one of the biggest wastes of time ever.

I don't fear ceasing to exist but I feel sad thinking I won't get that happy reunion with all the people I truly loved in this life just one last time. I only knew my grandfather until I was five. Then he died and he was a pretty great guy. There are so many things I wish I could have known about him. And his father before him. If I could just have an hour with my dad to say, "You were right about Mormonism being a crock". That's what I'll miss but if it doesn't happen I'll get over it because....... I won't exist. End of problem. ; )

Don't be scared CA girl. You'll be remembered by me but that will only last as long as I exist so we're back to the same problem. Oh, well.

lol - thanks Cali. I agree about the reunions - wanting to see those I've missed and say "ha! I was right, wasn't I?" to those I don't sounds pretty good to me too.

Sing along with me now....Family can be .......forever.......


You know the words.They're are threat to every mormon that comes from a dysfunctional family.

Sorry to put that in your head so late at night.

Being too judgmental, like I know what's best for everyone. I swear I chose my degree to help force it out of me.

That I was of value only in serving the cult.

They liked me because I played the piano and organ. I always had a second calling, teaching in the Sunday school and Primary, plus Cub Scouts. I found out that only a handful of Mormons were my friends outside of those callings.

Everything in the cult is stratified--even its heaven, and even within the CK, there is a "highest" degree of the CK, where Mormons will be "kings and queens, priests and priestesses."

No matter how hard I worked, no matter how deeply I believed, I still was:

A woman--lower than a man, unable to ever hold the priesthood.

Dark-eyed and dark-haired, not "white and delightsome."

Divorced--no matter how moral, righteous, and faithful I tried to be, I was always the divorced woman. No matter the reason for a divorce--wife-beating, or cheating--I was blamed for it, because the woman is supposed to keep her husband happy, righteous, and satisfied.

We're dropping lower and lower in the Mormon ladder-day-ladder.

Working mother--there have been many conference speeches and RS lessons on why women should not work. (No one mentioned having to support your children.)

Question asker. Whenever I asked question during a lesson, or even in conversation, I would get glares and silence.

Lower? I stopped wearing my garments, stopped going to the temple, stopped paying tithing.

Lower--I learned that Mormonism is a fraud cult.

Lower--"Less active"--I was love-bombed and threatened on my doorstep, by Mormons, in groups of two's and three's. They came to insult me to my face, to denigrate me in front of my children, to frighten me with dire predictions of our future--as if the priesthood had the power to control my future. A person who wishes harm on you is called an "enemy."

Now I'm shunned, and that can be crazy-making. Did I just imagine all those friends? No. They were enemies in disguise, who were constantly manipulating me into giving them my time and training for FREE. It was all just business, a sales ploy.

I still struggle with low self-esteem. I have a hard time accepting new friends, and often stop and think, "What does this person want from me?" I have given up ever finding unconditional love. Somehow, I was born unworthy of that.

Hey, who said you could live my life?


I can relate to all of that.

Mine was the idea that some day in the eternities I would come to learn everything! All the mysteries would be explained. Who really shot JFK?.... how did it all really happen? All my curiosity would be satisfied.

Now it sucks that I'll never know certain things.

Those dirty, filthy little shoulder showing strumpets.

Walking around with their brazen ball and socket joints for any man to see.

Oh, my poor weak constitution. I grow faint at the site of skin stretched haughtily over an immodest scapula.

Those cock-teasing tank tops should be outlawed.

Lying. Institutionalized, sanctioned lying aka serving the milk without the meat. I swear I was a sociopath- no conscience when I was "lying for the Lord". Took a very long time to quit lying whenever I thought the ends justified the means. Still haunts me.
So much for the great morals tscc claims to teach.

The idea that you have to be married to enter the highest level of heaven and be with God. I could never figure out what marriage had to do with anything.

That a 12 year old deacon had more power and authority than an adult woman. Any time I'd think maybe this wasn't the case, we'd have ward conference and the deacon's quorum presidency would be presented for the sustaining vote long before the RS, YW or Primary presidencies.

That all sexual sin was evil, evil, evil. Even those mildly dirty thoughts that crept into your mind through no fault of your own.

Missionary work. I never liked the constant nagging to convert your friends and neighbors. I tried like crazy and no one was interested. As I got older I began to wonder why we were so arrogant that we thought we knew everything for a certainty.

The idea that the external things that happen around me are somehow linked to my behavior, e.g., if you are obedient, you will be blessed. For example, "If I stop paying tithing, I might lose my job. If I continue to pay tithing, I won't get laid off." I'm not employed by the church. They dont care what I do with my non-discretionary income. If I get laid off, it would happen for other reasons. Some of those reasons may have nothing to do with my behavior, like cost cutting or getting rid of my department.

Definitely the whole sexual sin causes bad things to happen. If I masturbated I would feel guilty the whole day and anything bad that happened would be blamed on my own evil actions. And having sex - that was horrendous guilt. But somehow I managed to get over it.

Saying no.

Totally!! Add to that, setting boundaries.

I have a hard time overcoming the years and years of habitual attempts to influence people by passive aggression.

I still have a hard time with enabling others. Then I read your post--I've struggled a lot with that. I was just thinking about it this morning while lying in bed. My bitch sister (and, yes, she is a bitch) has the "perfect" marriage it seems. I see so many bitch women in mormonism who seem to have the perfect life and I wonder what the hell I did wrong. I really just wanted an intact family and I definitely don't have that. AND I got myself here by trying to fix someone because they told me I had to or God would ask me why I didn't take this opportunity some day.

Even if there are days it still bugs me, for the most part, it doesn't. There are just times. I wonder if my son wouldn't have the problems he has if it weren't for my marriage, etc., but the mormon families in the neighborhood also have sons with my son's problems.

"By my works I will be saved" and self worth/guilt.

Great thread/question! Would like to hear more about sin and restitution. What do you need to do when you sin against somebody?

I always had doubts about the teachings and history, but I clung to the belief that somehow the institution was still a force for good. (Look at all the nice people.) The potential was clearly there, and occasionally some good things happened; BUT compared to truly altruistic institutions, it's a mess.

For me, it was the mindset of the final judgment; and believing that people who get away with horrible things would have to eventually answer for their crimes. For example, I used to take a little comfort believing that Josh Powell would have to answer to God for the cold-blooded murder of his wife and kids. Since leaving the Church, it is hard to accept that justice will never be served for Powell's innocent family.

This is an interesting question, because when you're raised in the Mormon culture it's hard to determine which bits of screwed up thinking came from TSCC and which ones came from your parents, independent of the culture.

My biggest problem is not knowing how to ask for or express what I want. I don't even like to be pressed to choose the restaurant when I go out with friends. Is that from being afraid that I'll choose wrong and choosing wrong is the same as sin, or is it just part of my being the invisible child in my family?

Where ever it comes from I'm trying to overcome that trait, being a doormat doesn't endear you to anyone. I know that and yet I still struggle with stating what I want.