BYU super date = Go to Las Vegas on a Friday, get married with the sole intent of having sex, get a divorce after you have had your fun, be back home in time for church.

I have posed this question to many of my Mormon friends: what is worse in God's eyes? The BYU super date or fornication? I was a little surprised at the responses I got. Even the most TBM people I know have said it would be better to just go ahead and do it. I've been told it's a slap in the face to God, because there are no loop holes when it comes to God.

Has anyone here heard of the BYU super date? Know of it happening? Has anyone ever pointed out this little loop hole in TSCC rules to a TBM, and if so, what was the response?

This supposedly happened when I was at the Y in the eighties. I did not know anyone, and often felt like it was believable legend. So I cannot confirm, have heard the story.

I think it is a perfect example of Mormon thinking. Within the rules, but entirely corrupt.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2013 10:40PM by gentlestrength.

Heard the same stories during the same time period. Nobody I know thought it was proper behavior. You know. . the whole spirit of the law vs. letter of the law, etc.

Something similar actually happens in some Muslim countries. In Iran, the practice of temporary marriage for sex is widespread. Single men (I'm not sure about the married ones) can marry prostitutes legally for a very short period of time--it could be for as little as an hour--then get divorced, all perfectly legally. I guess the mullahs beat fantasizing BYU students to it in coming up with a way to bend the rules while staying within them.

I was aware of that practice. Isn't it funny how human nature seems to break out of the cast when it's restrained by a nonsense religion? The wiki article is interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_mut%E2%80%98ah

The woman cannot be addicted to fornication. I laughed out loud when I read that.

Muslims may have up to four wives.
Marriage is for the length of the contract with a payment to the wife (or her family depending on where you are at) at the end of the contract.

It is perhaps a darkness in me, but in order to come to where I am with my TBMs I look at them as fundamentalists, just like the Islamic fundamentalists. I am sure they love life and family, but they love religion most and they believe in eternity and value eternal rewardsover eternal joy.

I think is is a learning opportunity and sold be academically observed, we need some PhDs on the matter. Learning how to help TBMs adapt and normalize might begin to help to learn how to help fundamentalist Muslims adapt and normalize.

I suspect that if there were 1 billion Mormons we would be anxious about Mormons and not Muslims, Mormon law and not Sharia law.

I am being somewhat free thinking on this,it is not foundational for me. I just see similarities in misplaced values and the only difference is scope of influence and numbers.

When my family moved to St. George in the late 90s/early 2000s we had some firesides on this because, supposedly, local HIGH SCHOOL kids were also doing it. Like gentlestrength, I never knew anyone personally who did it, just that the local leadership thought it was prevalent enough that the YM/YW needed to have a special fireside to let them know that, yes, that is STILL wrong.

I wonder what the logic is to saying that it's wrong. For a group of people who are seriously devoted to the letter of the law, it doesn't seem like they would be able to come up with anything better than "you'd better not!" I think you could say that the BYU super date is wrong if you want to argue the spirit of the law angle, but how often is that used in the Morgue in general? Think of tithing or wearing garments.

That sounds like, to me, a case of the naive leaders believed the rumor mill.

Don't you have to be 18 in Vegas to get married? So, how is a pair of high school students going to pull that one off? Nevermind the details, we must immediately convene a fireside to make sure that all the teenagers who haven't thought of this already are well aware of their options.

Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

Hollyweird does this all the time

I am suspicious of the whole idea of the "super date": getting married in Nevada is very easy, but getting divorced is not, neither in Nevada nor in Utah.

I don't see how it is possible legally.

It's not a divorce they go for, it's an annulment - then no one ever needs to know.

Yes it is annulment in Nevada up to six months after the marriage.

And it costs $750.00 last time I knew... in 2002...I knew someone who did annul their marriage after eloping.

I guess it's what you're willing to pay to have sex????

Have heard of it, but I doubt any girl would go for it because if she's the type who demands marriage before sex, then she's probably also the type who would feel heartbroken & used when it culminates in an anullment the next day. Plenty of BYU-caliber guys would probably feel the same way.

If they like each other enough to run off to Vegas & elope, why not just stay married for at least a couple weeks and see how things go? Heehee

The super-date may be a loophole, but the big picture here is that it's still fornication. The concept of marriage is to share lives with each other ever after, through sickness & health, etc. So the super date is still fornication, if that's what they're trying to get around.

I used to seriously date a Utah County attorney. He had his own small practice and really was a good guy who liked being an attorney because he could help people. He really never made any money as an attorney because he couldn't turn anyone away who needed help. Unfortunately he died at the age of 49.

Anyway, one time he told some friends of one of his sons to go to Vegas and get married. He said that they were so horny and talking about hurrying up and doing a quickie temple wedding. So my friend really talked to them and told them that they should get married and not tell anyone. He told them that he would do an easy divorce for them as long as she didn't get pregnant and really gave them a lot of info, which they needed, about birth control. But he said he'd have to do a divorce not an annulment, but that it could be done easily with an agreement.


The logic was that they could have sex and get the edge off the dating and have time to decide what they really wanted to do. His advice was that if they decided they wanted to get married in the temple, he would do a divorce for them and they could get a new marriage license and have a regular temple wedding. If, soon after the marriage they decided to break up, no one would be any the wiser. I thought it was a great plan that should catch on with BYU students. They went to Vegas and got married, but the next week the girl got the guilts and told her parents. Her parents threw a big fit and the pressure was on with both sides of the family for them to move in together and make the marriage work (since they'd already had sex) and work toward going to the temple in a year. I don't know what the outcome of the marriage ever was.

But it just points out how stupid the mormon marriage machine is. Kids who get married in their early 20s are getting married for one reason. Sex. I was one of them. There is no possible way in the world I would have married that early or married the sociopath I married if I'd had a normal life, gone off to college with no pressure to be looking for a husband, been taught about having responsible relationships, and not thought I would burn in hell for having responsible pre-marital sex. It is all just so stupid.

Aww, if the girl had just kept quiet through her guilt trip, if she was unhappy in the marriage, she could have gone back to the lawyer friend and gotten the divorce, parents none the wiser.

But I can understand how she felt, young, childlike, wanted her life to be honest & squeaky clean.

Well, it s The One True Church and honesty is a key part of that relationship with the Mormon church. The Mormon is forthcoming and sincere about even her darkest moments as is the Mormon church with her. That's why they can say they know it is True, because it is an open, forthright relationship between two honest entities!

Honestly though your lawyer friend was out of place to involve himself with any of that.

That is probably true and it wasn't the first time Dear Friend got involved in things he probably shouldn't have or should have dropped sooner. Judge Ray Harding Jr. hated him (DF pulled a lot of tricks out of his hat in defending criminal (mostly drug) clients), and he also didn't have respect for judges based on what position they held in the church. When DF got cancer, he would have two weeks off and one week on of chemo. He'd have a fanny pack that he carried his chemo in with a tube going into his portacath. Harding threw DF out of his courtroom because he didn't have his shirt buttoned up to the top and his tie tight (courtroom required dress), because he had that tube going into his chest. A couple other attorneys got up and walked out in support when that happened.

A few years later when Harding got disbarred for his drug posessioin/use and distribution, I was so sad that my friend wasn't around to get to revel in it. But I reveled in it for him, went out to the cemetery with a bottle of wine and had a toast with him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2013 12:22PM by NormaRae.

I was at BYU attending a BYU student ward when they read a letter in Sacrament Meeting saying that getting married in Vegas in order to have sex was considered fornication and was also against the honor code.

I remember sitting their thinking that I wish I'd have thought of doing that before they came out and told us we couldn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2013 11:36AM by bezoar.

rigid Rules,
rigid Followers.

no surprise there, 'eh?

As I understand it anyone caught doing this was immediately excommunicated.

About 25 years ago I lived in Mesa, Arizona and I knew a female Single Adult (she was over 40) that actually did go to Las Vegas for a weekend wedding just to have sex. Then she got it annulled and was back at the single dance the next weekend. She had no guilt because she had married the dude. I think she had married 3 guys this way before her friend ratted her out to the Stake President and he EXED her. After the SP EXED her, she would take guys to her car in the parking lot and do them. She was one popular woman.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2013 12:42PM by pewsitter.

name, Please...

Slap in the face to god? Loopholes?

You mean like setting animals on fire and pretending they represent god's son who wouldn't be killed for another 1,500 years? LOL!

Religion doesn't usually (read never) follows logic. It was a TBM friend that pointed out to me that "there's no loopholes with God."

Reminds me of Ms. Spears who, as I recall, went to Vegas and then had it annulled. BTW, annulment is not so easy. Personally, I think she should have stayed with guy.

This is EXACTLY what the A-holes at LDS Inc. get for pretending to represent the authority of God, and then having to defer to civil power/authority when it comes down to the brass tacks of the matter.

I think the BYU super date is a myth. Its certainly mythological.... just like the MORmON religion -it does not make sense when its all factored out, even though on the surface it seems to be legit way to skirt the rules, but then the fantastic story fails to make sense. You know those venn diagrams, there is simply no real overlap/ intersection between that kind of smart with that kind of stupid. Sure sometimes people end up with more money than brains. BYU students who actually had enough money to do a BYU super date and think that it was reallyl clever would also have enough money and enough stupid to just stay together and act like..... Well that prick Mitt ROmney and his Phony B I T C H wife.

Its just like offering a ten thousand dollar prize to some one who can build a cold fusion reactor out of stuff from the DI and that fits inside a pop can. (Run of the mill MORmONS will walk around drooling over the notion of having 10 K.... while the MORmON elite predators steal another 20 K from them!) ONLY in MORmON fantasy land is anybody smart enough build a pop can size nuclear reactor from DI items and then DUMB enough to take only 10 K $ for it ...... Kind of like (supposedly) having ancient gold plates and a seer stone, and then coming up with a utter POS text like the BOM!

No doubt that BYU would be stupid enough to have the pop can reactor contest and to offer the 10 K prize, just like BYU really cracked down on the (non existent and mythological) BYU super date, which created much more student interest in the moral technicalities of BYU super date, sexual tantalization, ..... and BYU students having premarital sex in much less formal circumstances. That's a MORmON program and MORmON Suck-Cess in action! Meanwhile back in REALITY, anyone smart enough to rationally factor out and evaluate the BYU super date scenario, is also way beyond smart enough to say screw MORmON rules altogether!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2013 04:11AM by lucky.

Whether or not this was a prevalent practice, I don't understand the basis on which the leadership can condemn it.
I mean, on a meta level, obviously it undermines the sexual control over the membership, but it follows the rules to the letter.

Marriage is primarily a legal contract between two people.

Of course Mormons would think a Super Date is awful. Most human beings think it is ridiculous. Anybody who believes that this is a normal part of the Mormon BYU experience has a skewed view of Mormons.