Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
I can understand and will go so far as to tolerate a religious group talking about the importance to pay tithing. I haven't been to manny different religious churches but from what I know as of right now, the LDSC is the only religion that "Teaches" its members to pay tithing and to fear the idea of not paying tithing. Isn't tithing suppose to be a personal thing and not left up to the desgression of the one paying tithing? I'm starting to think that the whole, "Interview with bishop" is to make sure you are paying tithing. That's nowhere near Christ like to pry into people like that. From what I learned in the story books, tithing is something you are to personally do in privet on your own terms. Being forced or compelled to do anything out of fear is not a true sacrifice and so basically, your not getting the blessings from heaven if your being compelled to. O another thing, where does it say that we have to pay tithing to the church? Why not pay a tithing to a charity or sponcer a starving child, or donate to curing cancer or some other good cause? Besides, who is the church leaders to say what all the money is being used for? When I was homless in Utah, I slept and ate from none LDSC sources. There are manny non LDSC churches supporting charatable causes. I don't see the LDSC doing anything for the homeless or hungry. Sure the LDSC will let you buy food from the store house by you paying in time or work for the church. The churches that helped me did so with kindness and only asked for volunteers and never would turn someone away for not volunteering. Ugh... I'm ranting again. Im just mad. I'm in the anger stage right now. Any one have anything to add or correct me on?
ugh! I haven't thought of this in 37 years, but reading this post made me remember. When I was a new member, I remember the bishop saying that he was sitting in sacrament, about to cry because he realized that about of a third of the members sitting in those pews in front of him would burn for not paying their tithing. How stupid!
Aquarius,
I'm rolling on the floor, almost in tears. So funny!
I'm rolling on the floor, almost in tears. So funny!
Most of the Christian and non-Christian (Bahai faith) religions I have visited have a basket or an envelope. Most people just chuck in their loose change or a couple of bucks.
Regulars might write a check, in the amount of their choosing and stick it in an envelope.
Nobody blinks and eye if you can't contribute that week.
Usually the envelope comes with a check off list, if you want to designate your money to certain areas or charities of interest. For example, at a UCC Church we donated funds to purchase chickens, goats, cattle, or to build water pumps in third world countries.
Regulars might write a check, in the amount of their choosing and stick it in an envelope.
Nobody blinks and eye if you can't contribute that week.
Usually the envelope comes with a check off list, if you want to designate your money to certain areas or charities of interest. For example, at a UCC Church we donated funds to purchase chickens, goats, cattle, or to build water pumps in third world countries.
The Primary teaches this to little children!!!!
How can anyone say the cult is "harmless" or even "not abusive."
When I was a little girl, I used to have horrible nightmares about burning in fires. How could I pay tithing, when I had no money? The teachers told me to pay tithing on gifts. I could never figure out what a tenth of a bicycle would be--one of the tires, or a bell?
Small children need to be immediately brainwashed, threatened and scared to death, because to a logical young mind, the Mormon cult makes no sense at all. How could God love us and burn us? How could God's supposed church be so mean and unhappy?
How can anyone say the cult is "harmless" or even "not abusive."
When I was a little girl, I used to have horrible nightmares about burning in fires. How could I pay tithing, when I had no money? The teachers told me to pay tithing on gifts. I could never figure out what a tenth of a bicycle would be--one of the tires, or a bell?
Small children need to be immediately brainwashed, threatened and scared to death, because to a logical young mind, the Mormon cult makes no sense at all. How could God love us and burn us? How could God's supposed church be so mean and unhappy?
Joy, you're so right that the church teaches us to brainwash small children because the Mormon cult makes no sense to logical young minds. This stings me because as I was raising my son, his reaction to all things church-related as early as the age of 1 was complete screaming melting breakdowns. This continued through to preparing for his baptism. In his interview with the bishop my son flat-out told him that he didn't want to get baptized because church is boring and he hates it. As I was a TBM at the time this totally crushed me, but now that my eyes are open I am so pleased that my son was strong enough to resist being brainwashed. He's 10 now <3
They don't seem to realize this makes Elohim
the-proprietor-of-a-celestial-protection-racket-ly yrs,
S
the-proprietor-of-a-celestial-protection-racket-ly yrs,
S
Didn't Jesus himself say, "...Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me"?
Therefore, if we are required to pay our tithing to the Lord, wouldn't it make more sense to give it to the poor instead of lining the pockets of a filthy-rich church?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2013 01:20PM by hangar18.
Therefore, if we are required to pay our tithing to the Lord, wouldn't it make more sense to give it to the poor instead of lining the pockets of a filthy-rich church?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2013 01:20PM by hangar18.
As a born and raised Catholic, I was given a very different understanding of church donations. Although the "offerings" had a spiritual component, I would say that the primary purpose of the donations was a practical one: the church needed money to run. There was a building to heat and a priest to provide for. We understood that some of the money went to missionary work and to charity. You were never made to feel badly if you could donate little or nothing. God's opinion of you was not dependant on how much you could pay. In fact the Catholic church that I knew had a great empathy for the poor.
I found similar attitudes in the mainstream Protestant churches that I attended as a young adult. I only ever heard of the concept of tithing once, and that was by a member who was "trying it" of her own accord.
I find the Mormon concept of "fire insurance" to be rather horrifying by comparison.
I found similar attitudes in the mainstream Protestant churches that I attended as a young adult. I only ever heard of the concept of tithing once, and that was by a member who was "trying it" of her own accord.
I find the Mormon concept of "fire insurance" to be rather horrifying by comparison.
A Post-Mormon perspective:
Hebrews 7 indicates tithing is not part of the New Covenant with Christ.
Hebrews 7:1-11 Melchizedek was more important than Abraham and Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek (and by inference, the Priesthood line of Levi did, too).
Hebrews 7:12-17 Christ Jesus is more important than Melchizedek and He is from Judah of which tribe no priesthood is mentioned.
Hebrews 7:18-end The tithe is abolished ("disannulled") because it is unprofitable for salvation compared to the Grace of the New Covenant with Christ.
Is tithing a Christian covenant?
Here is a little historical background on Joseph and Sydney and their use of tithing to be supported by their flock.
I think Smith and Rigdon wanted a living. Taken in historical context, they pressed the Missouri Saints with revelations to assure this.
Here is an excerpt of the historical background of tithing, taken from VanWaggoner's Rigdon biography: "Sydney Rigdon, A Portrait in Religious Excess" published by Signature Books of SLC, UT. pp. 230-231.
"Mormonism's theological preoccupation with economics has been evident since the earliest days of the movement. The Book of Mormon implied that the rewards for righteous living included material wealth (Alma 1:29, 31). While the Mormon work ethic, as pointed out by historian D. Michael Quinn, was "communitarian rather than individualistic, and socialistic rather than entreprenurial or capitalistic," church leaders such as Rigdon, Smith, and later Brigham Young, seldom went without.7 Rigdon and Smith, upon arriving in Caldwell County, presented their financial plight to the Far West High Council on 12 May 1838. Both leaders indicated that during the previous eight years they had spent their "time[,] tallents[,] & property, in the service of the Church, and are now reduced as it were to absolute beggery, and still were detained in service of the Church." They had now reached the point, they expressed, where either something "should be done for their support ... by the Church" or they "must do it themselves." After a lengthy discussion, during which George M. Hinkle forcefully opposed "a salaried ministry," the high council voted eleven to one to give the two men eighty acres of land each and to contract with them for their services, "not for preaching or for receiving the word of god by revelation, neither for instructing the Saints in righteousness," but for work rendered in the "[p]rinting establishment, in translating the ancient records &c, &c." After negotiations, they ultimately agreed to offer Rigdon and Smith an annual contract of $1,100 apiece, more than three times what the average worker of the day could earn.8 Ebenezer Robinson, the high council's clerk, later wrote that "when it was noised abroad that the Council had taken such a step, the members of the church, almost to a man, lifted their voices against it. The expression of disapprobation was so strong and emphatic that at the next meeting of the High Council the resolution voting them a salary, was rescinded.”
Angered by this refusal, Rigdon and Smith sought additional sources of church revenues. A revelation given to them in Kirtland on 12 January 1838, but not yet public, was dusted off and presented to the membership. In response to the question: “O Lord, show unto thy servants how much thou requirest of the properties of thy people for a tithing," the Saints were told: "I require all their surplus property to be put into the hands of the Bishop of my Church of Zion, for the building of mine house and for the laying the foundation of Zion, and for the priesthood and for the debts of the presidency of my church." 10
Ten days later another revelation explained that surplus tithing was to be "disposed of by a Council composed of the First Presidency ... and of the Bishop and his Council; and by my High Council" (D&C 120). On 26 July still further instruction declared that the "first presidency [should] keep all their properties, that they can dispose of to their advantage and Support and the remainder be put into the hands of the Bishop or Bishops agreeably to the commandments, and revelations.” ll For those unwilling to be so "tithed," the 8 July revelation threatened: "If my people observe not this law, to keep it holy, and by this law sanctify the land of Zion ... behold verily I say unto you, it shall not be a land of Zion unto you." 12
Rigdon expanded on the revelation's warning, adding that noncompliers would be "delivered over to the brother of Gideon and be sent bounding over the Prairies as the dissenters were a few days ago.” 13
Hebrews 7 indicates tithing is not part of the New Covenant with Christ.
Hebrews 7:1-11 Melchizedek was more important than Abraham and Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek (and by inference, the Priesthood line of Levi did, too).
Hebrews 7:12-17 Christ Jesus is more important than Melchizedek and He is from Judah of which tribe no priesthood is mentioned.
Hebrews 7:18-end The tithe is abolished ("disannulled") because it is unprofitable for salvation compared to the Grace of the New Covenant with Christ.
Is tithing a Christian covenant?
Here is a little historical background on Joseph and Sydney and their use of tithing to be supported by their flock.
I think Smith and Rigdon wanted a living. Taken in historical context, they pressed the Missouri Saints with revelations to assure this.
Here is an excerpt of the historical background of tithing, taken from VanWaggoner's Rigdon biography: "Sydney Rigdon, A Portrait in Religious Excess" published by Signature Books of SLC, UT. pp. 230-231.
"Mormonism's theological preoccupation with economics has been evident since the earliest days of the movement. The Book of Mormon implied that the rewards for righteous living included material wealth (Alma 1:29, 31). While the Mormon work ethic, as pointed out by historian D. Michael Quinn, was "communitarian rather than individualistic, and socialistic rather than entreprenurial or capitalistic," church leaders such as Rigdon, Smith, and later Brigham Young, seldom went without.7 Rigdon and Smith, upon arriving in Caldwell County, presented their financial plight to the Far West High Council on 12 May 1838. Both leaders indicated that during the previous eight years they had spent their "time[,] tallents[,] & property, in the service of the Church, and are now reduced as it were to absolute beggery, and still were detained in service of the Church." They had now reached the point, they expressed, where either something "should be done for their support ... by the Church" or they "must do it themselves." After a lengthy discussion, during which George M. Hinkle forcefully opposed "a salaried ministry," the high council voted eleven to one to give the two men eighty acres of land each and to contract with them for their services, "not for preaching or for receiving the word of god by revelation, neither for instructing the Saints in righteousness," but for work rendered in the "[p]rinting establishment, in translating the ancient records &c, &c." After negotiations, they ultimately agreed to offer Rigdon and Smith an annual contract of $1,100 apiece, more than three times what the average worker of the day could earn.8 Ebenezer Robinson, the high council's clerk, later wrote that "when it was noised abroad that the Council had taken such a step, the members of the church, almost to a man, lifted their voices against it. The expression of disapprobation was so strong and emphatic that at the next meeting of the High Council the resolution voting them a salary, was rescinded.”
Angered by this refusal, Rigdon and Smith sought additional sources of church revenues. A revelation given to them in Kirtland on 12 January 1838, but not yet public, was dusted off and presented to the membership. In response to the question: “O Lord, show unto thy servants how much thou requirest of the properties of thy people for a tithing," the Saints were told: "I require all their surplus property to be put into the hands of the Bishop of my Church of Zion, for the building of mine house and for the laying the foundation of Zion, and for the priesthood and for the debts of the presidency of my church." 10
Ten days later another revelation explained that surplus tithing was to be "disposed of by a Council composed of the First Presidency ... and of the Bishop and his Council; and by my High Council" (D&C 120). On 26 July still further instruction declared that the "first presidency [should] keep all their properties, that they can dispose of to their advantage and Support and the remainder be put into the hands of the Bishop or Bishops agreeably to the commandments, and revelations.” ll For those unwilling to be so "tithed," the 8 July revelation threatened: "If my people observe not this law, to keep it holy, and by this law sanctify the land of Zion ... behold verily I say unto you, it shall not be a land of Zion unto you." 12
Rigdon expanded on the revelation's warning, adding that noncompliers would be "delivered over to the brother of Gideon and be sent bounding over the Prairies as the dissenters were a few days ago.” 13
MORmONS claim that their MORmON version of *tithing* is based on biblical principle.
Inspection of the bible shows that MORmON claim is not true.
Inspection shows that MORmONS are LIARS.
Inspection of the bible shows that MORmON claim is not true.
Inspection shows that MORmONS are LIARS.
The MORmON incineration threat, straight from the crap spewing mouth of the top MORmON ASSpostHOLE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xaYMdHNILw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xaYMdHNILw
Re Mormon incineration ...
It's almost like a Grimms fairy tale when Gretel throws the witch into the oven, bolts the door, and causes "the ungodly witch to be burned to ashes" [for not paying tithes of course ... lol].
No remorse on Gretel's part.
Only the church doesn't believe in telling fairy tales to small children. It may be Grimm but the church is true!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2013 05:37PM by Senoritalamanita.
It's almost like a Grimms fairy tale when Gretel throws the witch into the oven, bolts the door, and causes "the ungodly witch to be burned to ashes" [for not paying tithes of course ... lol].
No remorse on Gretel's part.
Only the church doesn't believe in telling fairy tales to small children. It may be Grimm but the church is true!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2013 05:37PM by Senoritalamanita.