I said on another post that Mormons, the ones currently trying to "save the lost sheep" see themselves very differently than outsiders see them. They assume we want to hang out with them. They think that they are special and admirable and if they show us some attention, we will squirm with delight and race to take them up on their offer of friendship. This was highlighted by the comments made by the YW leaders who dropped by my house yesterday to see DD. They said they want to talk to her so she is more comfortable with them and, when refused the opportunity, asked what sort of activities they could plan that she might like to attend. It NEVER occurred to them I might not want her to feel comfortable hanging out with them nor want them to plan activities to lure her into their web. They felt like they were going out of their way to include her, never doubting that ANYONE would want to be friends with them.

The lack of humility is astonishing. When I make new friends, I don't assume the person will feel lucky that I grace them with my attention. But Mormons act like they are the popular kids in junior high and we wish we could be like them. That we'll respond positively to their attention or feel shamed and sad when ignored by them. It's ridiculous.

How I really see them is as nice people whose morals and values are beneath what I'm willing to settle for in life. As basically good people who have been taught to do bad things, having had their good intentions warped by the self-serving teachings of their overlords. As people who are more bad-mannered than good and who posses a tragic misunderstanding of personal space and boundaries. I don't want to hang out with them mostly because I don't want lower my standards and become like them. This is why their reactivation attempts fall so flat with me. Because they aren't much different than someone trying to get my children to try smoking or join a street gang or work at a strip club. Maybe that is overstating it (I've been told I do that) but the general sentiment remains the same. I want better for my children, myself and my family than Mormonism.

How do you view Mormons? Would it surprise them?

I grew up Mo in Utah Valley so I get all the silliness that comes along with it. Most Mormons I knew were genuinely nice people. Fun to talk to, a little less fun to hang out with. If they can stay away from evangelizing I like them just fine.

I actually have a number of personal habits that fall in line nicely with them and it makes it pleasant. I don't smoke, drink alcohol or engage in profanity. Others smoking and drinking don't both me much as long as it isn't excessive but I don't want my kids around it. I definitely don't want my kids around profanity. There's just that pesky evangelizing garbage.

It's like I've always maintained - I wouldn't care so much about Mormonism if Mormons would learn to play nicely with other children. It's almost invariably the hypocrisy or the unkindness or the outright lying or the lack of boundaries that bug me more than anything. Of course, the deal-breaker for me was that the church itself lies and conceals stuff - the history, doctrine and practices just don't make sense. But the way it gets nice people to behave badly is just scary. If Mormons could just clue in a bit more to how their behavior is viewed and how it's hurting people, then adjust accordingly, I think it would make a world of difference.

To me, it's the not affording other people the same respect they demand. They cannot see how, when they say that theirs is the one true church and all others are "an abomination," the others don't come running to the Mormons, like, oh golly, you're the true religion? We're abominable? Why didn't you tell us sooner?!? They seriously cannot see how that tends to piss people off. Total cluelessness...one clueless Mormon told me I needed to take that up with Jesus

...or alternatively, I could just go with the one theory that seems, to me, to just line up most neatly with all of the facts...that Joseph Smith was a con artist who lied about the whole thing because he basically liked money, sex (pardon me), and power, and the in the religious milieu in the wake of the Second Great Awakening, that was a good way to get all three. Yet, should I offer that theory, I'm an anti-Mormon who's persecuting them in a free country.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2013 07:21PM by stillburned.

I view the LDS folks I know as friends and relatives just the same as I do anyone else I love and care about. They are part of my circle of friends, and relatives that are part of my life. Many are an important part of my life.
I have a long history with many LDS folks. They are the same as anyone else.

I follow the same thing I do with anyone who treats me unkindly, unfairly, lies about me, is rude and nasty, etc. They are not accepted in my circle of loved ones - either temporarily or permanently, depending on their behavior. That goes for anyone - they often go in "time out" until their behavior improves.

Religion is not an issue for me. I don't know the religious beliefs of many of my friends and loved ones, and it doesn't matter. That is about them, not me, anyhow. It's their life. They can live it as they choose.

Mormons exhibit an astonishing lack of self-awareness. They don't know when they are being weird.

It's as if they have cultivated the ability to ignore social cues that would curb anyone else's tendency to invade the privacy or space of others.

It's odd, really. Mormons are finely tuned to pick up cues from their fellow mormons, (source of so much pressure to conform), but they put up a force field that blocks all other social cues.

Insular, off-putting, willfully ignorant.

Mormons exhibit an astonishing lack of self-awareness. They don't know when they are being weird.

It's as if they have cultivated the ability to ignore social cues that would curb anyone else's tendency to invade the privacy or space of others.

It's odd, really. Mormons are finely tuned to pick up cues from their fellow mormons, (source of so much pressure to conform), but they put up a force field that blocks all other social cues.

Insular, off-putting, willfully ignorant.

I see them as well meaning but self important and socially inept. I also see them as rather dense since they won't listen when I tell them not to come to my house or phone me and I'm insulted that they act like my words are nothing and I'll change my mind if they push hard enough.

I'm insulted that they think my deepest personal beliefs and my friendships are for sale for a plate of cookies. I know last year the stake had an advertised service project my daughter declined to attend. That night, the YW showed up at our door with a plate of cookies for my daughter. It really made her feel great (sarcasm) to know they considered her a service project, on the level of a homeless person or teen runaway, simply because her religious views differed from theirs. That her friends thought she needed to be saved and helped and didn't just accept her for who she was. It really backfired and if it ever happens again, I'm going to share an opinion or two with the young ladies.

It seemed that whenever someone asked what church I attended, and I said that I was LDS, they'd act all kind and respectful of Mormonism and say something nice about it. One time, when I was in the military and had told a guy that I was LDS, he said, "That it such a NEAT church!" I was very surprised later to find out that he hated Mormons and that he was just being deceptively nice.

Now I generally find that when people begin to talk about Mormons, they ask first if I am one. When I say no, then they tend to launch into a diatribe about how much they hate Mormonism. Using just anecdotal information, I would wager that most people don't approve of Mormons or Mormonism, but are quick to be respectful and are just showing good manners, when, in fact, they don't particularly like them and never have.

It was a pretty big shock to realize the church wasn't true but it was almost as big a shock to realize what people really think of Mormons. Like you said, people tend to be polite about religion and respectful of peoples' right to believe whatever they want. This is very different from respecting Mormons or Mormonism. People I'd known my whole life confided in me how happy they were I'd gotten out of Mormonism and how weird they'd always thought it was, although they'd loved me in spite of my weird beliefs. I really was shocked.

Mormons are taught they are a light unto the world and that they set a good example for others. If they'd stop patting themselves on the back about that for a minute and look around, they'd realize no one shares their high opinion of themselves.

I love my mormon family, but I can't help but think of them as racist, sexist, homophobic, brainwashed freaks.

And that's before I picture them doing the temple ceremony crap.

The Mormons that I know and have met are very nice, decent people. They have always been respectful of the fact that I am not Mormon and have observed reasonable boundaries. If they disapprove of certain facets of my lifestyle, they have hidden it well.

When I look at them, I see people who are voluntarily living in a very sanitized, constricted and constrained little bubble. I suppose that bubble means safety and familiarity to them.

It's like looking at fish in an aquarium. The aquarium is safe and pleasant. A fish could live his entire life with his friends and family in the aquarium and be content. But it's not the ocean. The ocean is large and vast and exciting and sometimes dangerous. The ocean has an allure and a primal pull that the aquarium can never have. It is life untamed. It is the real world. But not every fish is destined to live his life there.

I live in the Salt Lake Valley and most of my friends are Mormon. One friend is a very active Presbyterian. She does lots of service and is a great cook. I have heard some of the Mormons in the group tell her that if she'd just get baptised she could be the RS president. Like that would be a good thing.