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Posted by: Flyinghigh ( )
Date: July 01, 2013 04:11AM

Is it legal for a church organisation, such as the Mormon church, to directly solicit and actively proselyte online in the manner that has recently been announced?
I would imagine that in many countries there are different judicial laws and legal safeguards of some description in place regarding this.
Is there not the a very real danger that your teenage child could be getting taught and coerced into the LDS religion without the parents knowledge? I am particularly thinking about the secretive aspects of the church that are purposely hidden and not made public. Also all of this invasive contact would be emanating from and being administered by young and immature 18 year olds?
It seems to me their could be possible breaches of privacy, concerns re stalking and of possible minor abuse of some sort.
Is all of this online soliciting being properly monitored and controlled and what regulations are in place to protect children and vulnerable people?
Anyone any thoughts or information on this?

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Posted by: Whiskeytango ( )
Date: July 01, 2013 04:58AM

Perfectly legal..Not at all regulated and no safeguards..Unless they are engaging in online poker, child pornography or soliciting minors for sex there isn't much that can be done. The internet is a dangerous idea and free speech is threatening. Most countries that censor the internet are places like China and Iran. I know for a fact that Kuwaits internet is heavily censored...Would you really want that?

There efforts will fail and go no where...They are perfectly in their right to try though. It is not illegal for missionaries to use Facebook or anything else...But we are free to fight back.. Thank god the internet is unregulated or we probably wouldn't be here.

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Posted by: Flyinghigh ( )
Date: July 01, 2013 05:51AM

Yes,I appreciate what you are saying regarding the freedoms of the internet, it's important that we can express ourselves freely.
But I still feel there is the very real possibility of widespread abuse, especially by the this secretive, manipulative and controlling LDS Cult. They purposely hide the covert aspects of the church from investigators, the secret Temple Oaths, Covenants and the whole Ceremony which is designed to maintain the complete and total control of its membership 24/7.
The baseball baptisms in the UK 40+ years ago was an example where many young groups of teenagers were coerced into baptism, much to the anger or the knowledge of parents at the time, causing big problems.
I am particularly worried about the vulnerability of young, impressionable and especially troubled or lonely teenagers who may be seduced to some degree by the sudden and alluring attentions of some cute looking young males or females who seem to be taking an interest in them.
Unless it is heavily regulated, and importantly by independent bodies outwith the LDS church, I think it could be the cause of all sorts of potential problems, personal traumas or worse for unsuspecting families.

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Posted by: Alpiner ( )
Date: July 01, 2013 06:27AM

"Unless it is heavily regulated"

Imagine the type of regulation you want. Imagine you can put whomever you desire in charge of it.

Now, imagine that same regulation, only in the hands of your worst enemy. Who's to say it won't be abused?

Regulation is always a two-edged sword. Who's to say you won't get some animal rights quack who forbids any mention of BBQ recipes? Or an ultra-conservative who goes on a bender against atheism?

I'm a free speech absolutist. There's no way regulation can work unless, as mentioned, you wish to join the ranks of China, Iran, or other countries that control what their citizens see. I don't need the government to provide proxy parenting for myself or others.

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Posted by: Whiskeytango ( )
Date: July 01, 2013 06:29AM

I'm sure things like that will happen...I think a lot of people that join the church are like that...Lonely,vulnerable people will always be drawn to cults, Mormonism especially seems to find them...But, I don't think this program is going to really be that successful, I think a lot of people here are making it out to be more than what it is...Lonely,vulnerable people will probably not join in any greater numbers than they are and will probably leave in just as great of a number than before...The church's retention rate isn't going to improve any. They still will only keep four out every ten converts the first year after baptism..I also do not think that members are going to participate in any great numbers...They have to many other pursuits and aren't going to go out of their way to participate..

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Posted by: dk ( )
Date: July 01, 2013 06:54AM

Vulnerable, lonely people on the internet, may not want people coming to their homes or want to get dressed up every Sunday and sit in church for 3 hours. The same is true for children.

Since the church wants contact information, I can see a problem if people feel they or their children are being harassed by church members. But this has been happening even before the internet.

If the church just wanted virtual members and their money, they might do better. It would be no different than a TV preacher. Worthiness interviews with virtual people wouldn't have much meaning. You could ask, do you wear your garments and the person could ask yes while sitting at the computer nude. You could give the priesthood to women who said they were men online.

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Posted by: happyhollyhomemaker ( )
Date: July 01, 2013 06:39AM

I imagine it would be applicable to cyberstalking laws, if a legal guardian has requested no further contact, and the morg and its missionaries ignore the cease and desist. An email to church headquarters should put an abrupt end to it immediately.
However, if it continues, there's a huge potential for lawsuits. One would think this kind of risk would send them scurrying back into their holes, but I presume this is a last gasp to raise membership numbers, at least in the developed world.

It all seems rather poorly thought out, given that disproving Mormonism takes about three minutes on google. The mishies might not be able to access this site, but everyone they're talking to online can and probably will. As soon as 'don't look at anti-Mormon sites' comes across the screen, any normal teenager is going to go and do exactly that.
I don't imagine they'll get many converts, and they'll probably have a lot of action taken against them if they don't back off the first time they're told to. It's a very risky game they're playing.

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Posted by: Flyinghigh ( )
Date: July 01, 2013 07:21AM

I get what you are saying, believe me.
But I am trying to highlight this particular situation regarding the withholding of important and relevant information that pertains to membership in the LDS cult.
Actively soliciting membership into a seemingly innocent organisation, that has a deliberate and hidden, yet very important aspect to its whole operation, and is being withheld from the full knowledge of the investigator, could be reasonably and correctly interpreted in my view, as a deliberate fraudulent and criminal act.
And all of this purposeful deception by the Cult, would be transmitted online to thousands of people and especially young teenagers without their families knowledge.
Sorry but this cannot be acceptable behaviour or business practice, by a supposedly honest organisation and surely needs to be brought to the attention of the authorities concerned.

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Posted by: axeldc ( )
Date: July 01, 2013 07:27AM

I think it is the rules of the site that matter more. For example, if they start to harass people on FB, their accounts will be closed. This has nothing to do with the law and everything to do with the terms of usage agreements of the particular site.

While some governments may be more restrictive, most countries would be perfectly willing to let them solicit people online. It's the platform owners who will be clamping down on them.

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Posted by: Flyinghigh ( )
Date: July 01, 2013 08:39AM

I wonder if MT, Anointed One or any other respected legal expert among the illuminated can shed some extra light on this?

I just cannot believe that the LDS Cult can be allowed instant and unrestricted online access to countless future victims to directly solicit converts, while deliberately withholding important and relevant information (Temple Ceremonial Oaths of allegiance, obedience, etc.) which will be required by the victim, and is absolutely central to Mormon doctrine.

But most worryingly of all, the LDS Temple Ceremony is not only paramount in the LDS belief system, it is the very source of the relentless and deep psychological harm it can inflict, indeed the most successful and complete mind control tactic the LDS church possesses over its members.

To allow such a massive deception and fraud to be unleashed on the unsuspecting masses through an instant and unfettered communication media, is seriously unethical and plain dangerous wrong. At least the way I see it.

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Posted by: Renie ( )
Date: July 01, 2013 08:46AM

There are many things and places on the internet that are "seriously unethical and plain dangerous wrong" but that doesn't make them illegal.

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Posted by: Flyinghigh ( )
Date: July 01, 2013 09:31AM

Yes, but we are talking about an established and respected international religious organisation here, in fact the one and only true and living church of Christ on the face of the whole earth!!!
Therefore, I would have thought that ethics and honesty etc., would play a rather more prominent part in its online christian reachout.
Sorry, I know it's the LDS Church were talking about here, but still!!!

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Posted by: Whiskeytango ( )
Date: July 01, 2013 10:57AM

But still....The Free Speech applies to them also...The internet is largely unregulated. It is the one place where revolutions are organized..People connect on a variety of topics and unfortunately villains may lurk...If you honestly believe that what the church is doing actually rises above the level of stupidity and annoyance then by all means,try to sue them to shut it down...You will get no where...While young,vulnerable and stupid people may fall victim to the church more won't than will.

The Church really is allowed to do this...Anyone is allowed instant and unrestricted access to the world on the internet...

Imagine what the internet would look like if it was restricted, who would police it? Who would decide what is or is not acceptable for "vulnerable minds"? What if someone you did not like or agree with ran the internet? What then..

Free speech is very,very dangerous. It is hated throughout the world. Many Governments heavily regulate the internet to prevent it's citizens from seeing the outside world...I am pretty sure the Church's new missionary plan will never be seen in Iran,China or Kuwait, but then people there have far greater things to worry about.

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Posted by: JamesM ( )
Date: July 01, 2013 05:31PM

Missionaries are 100% unprepared for what they will encounter when approaching people online. They have no clue how it's going to pan out.

The Church shouldn't be censored by the government. I don't think it's moral to censor the Church. But I do think it's going to spell bad news for the Church to send millions of people to Facebook to spark up church chats with people who can know the truth about the Church in 10 minutes online.

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