At what point will the 2nd Coming be considered late and help bring the demise of religion, including Mormonism? Seems to me, although no one "named a date" that the 2nd Coming was due already?

2033? 2100? 2150? At some point the collective churches will need a new story for why Christ hasn't returned.

Great question. Please redirect to Church PR for succinct and satisfactory answer.

And don't forget to return and report. Please be quick--I'm holding my breath...

I've wondered that myself. How many thousands of years must go by before someone finally goes, "Gee, maybe He isn't coming back?"

Maybe Christianity will eventually evolve into more of principle. A way of living. Scriptures will become more symbolic, like an Aesop's Fables, with a moral to each story.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2013 10:55AM by Greyfort.

Jesus was late by the time Paul started writing epistles. I recently re-read 2 Corinthians, which is supposed to be the first epistle that Paul wrote. It was clear to me that Paul taught that JC was due any day now. Also, the Corinthians were concerned about what would happen to the faithful that died before Jesus arrived, as if they were surprised that it was happening to so many people.

It may well be that JC's lack of punctuality was the real reason for a decline in early christianity, rather than the claimed violent persecution.

The fact that christianity is still around 2000 years later indicates to me that christians will somehow be able to wait for JC's second (or fist?) arrival forever.

Traffic in heaven is unbelievable!

Just an icky technical note here ....

1. The First Letter of Paul to the Corinthians was lost. We don't have that.

2. The Second Letter of Paul to the Corinthians is what we now have as "First Corinthians".

3. A common interpretation among biblical scholars is that what we now have as "Second Corinthians" contains BOTH the Third (2 Cor. 10-13) and Fourth (2 Cor. 1-9) Letters from Paul to the Corinthians.

I'm sort of OCD on details like this.

See Bart D. Ehrman, "The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings", p. 328.

When you read the bible and listen to the story, it seems like his followers were expecting him to return before their deaths.

Christianity was preceeded by 2500 years by the Egyptian god Horus
He was born of an earthly mother and a God father
At 12 years of age he astounded the elders in their temple
At 30 years of age he began his teaching followed by 12 primary followers.
He was executed by crucifixion
He was resurected
He ascended into the heavens promising to return.
He also didnt come back

Where are you getting this information? It doesn't match what I
know about the Horus myth.

JS said in 1843 that “There are those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till Christ comes.” (HOC v. 5 p. 336). Bruce R. McConkie tried to explain how this “prophecy” could still be true by saying that someone who was a new father in 1843 could have remarried late in life and fathered children as much as 75 years later who would still be part of the “rising generation.” There are many problems with McConkie’s explanation. For one, he’s assuming that men in the early 20th century were fathering children well into their 90s. Even if that were true, those children would be nearly 100 years old now. Even if you give every benefit of the doubt, this explanation would have 0% of still being true within the next few years. And what validity does a prophecy have if you have to stretch the logic to the point of snapping to make it fit?

Thanks CrispingPin, that was the quote I was thinking of also. McConkie was my spiritual "hero" in the late 70s/80s on my mission and after. He was considered a "prophet seer and revelator" just like all the of the 12 are, I guess just another false prophecy?

Oh, how did I buy into this for 40 years!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2013 12:24PM by regularguy.

It's on page 692 of Mormon Doctrine (in my 1977 printing of the book).

Excellente...

This was a clever trick to keep the masses in line...

More guilt

More hope

More faith

More $$$

Followers spout the 'End Times' all day long...


Enough already

Never.

As long as the "carrot on a stick" approach works, we'll just keep expecting it any time now.

If the second coming is late, does that mean it's pregnant?

Jesus is a hippy. Hippies smoke pot. Potheads are horrible at keeping track of time. So as soon as Jesus comes down off his high, he'll be right back to us. Well, unless he passes a place selling funions.

It's 'Waiting for Godot', and religious wonks are Vladimir and Estragon.....

It's like that part in "hitch hiker's guide to the galaxy" where jesus returns at the end of the universe.

He will come again; Each and every December 25th. When you're a kid, a year seems like forever and as such telling kids you must be good to receive presents each Christmas will help keep them in line.

Just as well with Jesus's second coming. If we keep telling everyone to be good because Jesus is coming back soon, maybe they'll all stay in line and do as they're told.

I'm asking for a race car this year!

I guess those clock batteries died late in the twelfth hour. Gees... will someone please change those darned batteries? They're holding up everything...

"I don't know that we teach that"....

It's never too late for an apocalypse!

Given this track record:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_and_claims_for_the_Second_Coming_of_Christ

I'd say never.

According to the beliefs of the Preterists, the apocalypse was in AD 70, when the Romans burnt the Temple in Jerusalem. Everything since then is just trying to do as well as we can in the aftermath.

Matthew 24:30
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the son, but only the father"

So, even Jesus doesn't know when the hell he's coming back. But you know what? If he's coming back, he needs to move things along because quite frankly, I'd like to see what all hullabaloo is about. Plus, if he does come back, and since Mormons go in pretty much opposite directions, I'd be interested to see their reactions when Jesus is all like "yeeeeeeaaaaaaah......you don't get to be a god...sorry about that. Bummer, I know."

According to most indicators of what constitutes a cult, one point is that "they claim that the end is near" or that "we are in the last days". It doesn't surprise me that they fit the model.

My take is that the time not only cannot be determined by any of us, but God is observing things and the actual time Christ didn't even know because it is one which God can change, just as he answers prayers. I was surprised by someone after church today (not TSCC) who remarked about the Gay marriage ruling and was worried how God was going to punish us. I told him that if one were concerned about marriage, the passage of "no fault divorce" did great damage to marriage, and not a decision on whether or not gays can marry. I also told him that it was easy to predict the passage and change of public sentiments at least by 30 years ago. Of course, I studied the prediction of social and political change at MIT. You didn't need some special prophetic inspiration to understand this.

I also calculated, prior to passage, the increase in the divorce rate and the effects on society of no-fault divorce. I was able to calculate future rates by state. Gay marriage is to our families of the same importance as gun control and the death penalty: all are argued at great length but have very little real effect. That also I calculated back before my paper in 1970. I calculated the breakdown in Congress years before that in a dynamic analysis. No need for fake prophets who even missed the inevitable collapse of the USSR - something my father could note by 1946 in top secret government papers.

Re collapse of communism: Hinckley, as I recall, was the apostle who told GC of how wonderful the head of East Germany was, only several years before the collapse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2013 08:02PM by rhgc.

Actually there is good news and bad news.
He has returned.
To rome

According to Luke 21:32, he's already far, FAR overdue. But Christian apologists have come up with all sorts of excuses for that one.

What about once the sun turns into a red giant and vaporizes the Earth? Then there will be no "here" for people to pretend that Jesus is going to return to! Although, then I suppose the apologists would just claim that he meant he was going to return to humanity in general, not necessarily this planet (all that stuff about the Mount of Olives and Jerusalem were just symbolic, or whatever).

At any rate this all isn't set to happen for another 5 billion years, and I expect Christianity will be long forgotten history billions of years before then! I give it another 500 years or so before it peters out. I'd bet that two thousand years from now, Jesus will be nothing more than an old mythology kids learn about in school, much like Zeus or Thor.

My wife's second coming is always faster than the first.

And that's only because I'm being generous. ;)

about 60 AD

I'm of the opinion that he CAN'T "return".

Why?

Because he never left. His remains are right here on planet Earth along with all the other billions of humans that have lived and died here.

In my humble opinion, of course.