I am the only member of my family that is a non-believer – I stopped believing in the church when I was 16 and it's caused a lot of emotional pain since. My parents have blamed me and my disbelief for a number of things, including the suicidal thoughts of my little sister.

Let's face it, most of us have experienced some sort of depression and bitterness once we got out. It's not easy.

I am the oldest of seven children, and all of my little brother's and sisters believe. Some are unstable (as mentioned above) and others seem to be fine. The church seems to be a positive guiding force in their life.

There is a strong desire to help them understand that the church is false. Do I have a right or an obligation to plant seeds of doubt in their minds? If they are happy now, does it make me a monster to show them the truth and make them unhappy and bitter?

Shame on your parents for blaming you for things that go wrong/bad.

Assumung your siblings are all minors, I wouldn't try to teach them that their beliefs are mistaken. That will only further irritate your parents and drive a bigger wedge between you and them.

Instead, lead by example. Show your siblings that you can be happy and fulfilled, and can lead a productive life without believing in the fake LDS Corp 'church'.

I think the ethical thing would be to allow them to be what they want to be. One of the problems with Mormonism... is they teach that other people are responsible for your happiness. Your parents get angry because you chose a different life path... Mormonism teaches that THEY are partly responsible for your salvation. It is a sick system of guilt and blame.

Point is, allow your family to be what they want to be. If they want to follow Mormonism and be ignorant.. that is their problem. HOWEVER, you have every right in the world to voice your opinion on things. If the subject of Mormonism comes up..voice your opinion on it.. it is your right.

There is a difference between voicing your opinion vs. being hell bent on convincing them they are wrong. Let them discover the truths for themselves if they are interested... no one in this world can prevent them from typing in a search engine "Mormonism" and finding out the truth about it. The truth is abundantly everywhere if they choose to see it. Let go of the need to convince them of anything. Live your truth and be your truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2013 05:08AM by gracewarrior.

Understanding that reality can be God-awful seems better than a God-awful fantasy world.

I read once in a book called, "The Disappearance of the Universe", by Gary Renard, a line that has sung to me many times. In the book, he is visited by spiritual masters and one of them shared,

"It's not our purpose to have you exchange your beliefs for ours, but rather to look and see if yours are serving you, or not."

I have made this my motto when dealing with the confrontations of committed believers. Attempting to persuade others to embrace your thinking is too difficult and not what you are really here to experience. Rather, you are here on a journey of RE-MEMBERING the truth about yourself, just as they are. That truth is the WHAT of your existence, not the WHO you THINK you are. The WHAT is the essence of you; simply put, is... LOVE. It is the underlying motivation for everything. Even the die hard TB is actually expressing his view of love, (regrettably wrapped in fear in most cases), but doing the best they can with the limited rules and perspectives created by dogma and vain hopes in salvation. (From what is the question, but certainly high on the standards of all religions.)

SMILE

Tell them plural marriage is adultery and you don't want to go to hell for attending a church that breaks bible god's commandments pertaining to adultery.

IF YOU ATTEND MORMON CHURCH YOU WILL GO TO HELL!

It is that simple.

While I pretty much believe that... I don't find it does much to convince Mormons of the same.

First of all, you might be joking and I'm just not picking up on that.

Just in case you're serious, have you had your head examined? Maybe you should.

1. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that such a place as hell exists? It's a fairy tale, man. And a stupid one at that.

2. Mormons don't practice polygamy right now, so that's a dumb argument.

If I were a TBM and I read your post I'd think, "wow, these ex-mormons are really dumb."

NOT CALLING YOU DUMB 'CAUSE YOU'RE PROBABLY JUST BEING SARCASTIC...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2013 06:05PM by kolobian.

Actually, so long as you have something to replace TSCC, you may relieve your sister's depression by getting her out.

Depression is genetic and also affected by excesssive guilt which can be fostered by TSCC. Your sister should also drink coffee.

I would never have a strike first mentality. I would however feel no qualms at bringing the rain if someone decided to come at me.

The best way is to lead by example as another poster said. Nothing makes tbms happier than seeing an ex member fail once they leave the church. They get some sick thrill out of it, although if they see you lead a successful happy life, they are utterly confused, because they are convinced you should be miserable......

You can simply ask them if they would want to know if the church is false and proceed accordingly. There is zero disrespect in that.

I would also say that ignorance isn't truly bliss, not in my experience. It always costs something in the end.

Gonna go back to believing in Santa and The Bunny...

It'll make me happier.

I know very few exmos who left and regret it. Some NOMs know the issues and stay.

If your grandma has been happy her whole life in the church, then yes, let it rest. If you know someone who is miserable, you are doing them a big favor showing them the way out.

My sister struggled for years to fit in and finally read "Under the Banner of Heaven" years after I gave it to her. After her initial anger at finding out what a cad JS was, she is relieved not to have to fit into their narrow world.

It's such an individual thing.

I have a BIC friend who would not be able to handle it if she realized that the Church wasn't true. She literally needs the Church in her life.

Although it makes me sad that she's so dependent on a fraudulent corporation that just wants her disability money, I've recognized that I would do her much harm by trying to take it away from her.

But if someone is depressed because of the Church, then it could mean much healing for them if they knew the truth.

I think that every case is different.

And I still don't know the answer.

I only have one actual LDS friend that I still talk to regularly and hang out with regularly. She knows how I feel about it and a few of the problems with TSCC (which she chooses to put on her shelf and ignore). We have mostly tried to avoid too much talk about TSCC because it is a stalemate and often leads to an argument.

However it galls me that she is giving them money she will need in retirement. She wears herself ragged doing things for them. I feel like I'm standing by and letting her be abused by this group.

On the other hand, she is single and almost 60. She is the only LDS in her family. Her parents have passed. She has one brother and their relationship is strained. All of her focus has been her job and her church. She recently retired from the job. So what if I were successful in showing her what a scam she's been the victim of for the last 40 years? Would I really be doing her a favor? What happens when she realizes all she threw away by serving the cult?

With this friend, I've come to the conclusion that she is determined to live in a fantasy and that on some level she already KNOWS that it is a fantasy. She has access to the truth but she doesn't want it. She never lets LDS Inc know my contact info, so I try to let her keep sleeping.

But I worry...

The saying "ignorance is bliss", is tongue and cheek. In reality, lack of knowledge about a subject can lead a person to become exploited. We see this in the news around the world all day long. Members of religions are exploited to believe and do work that is completely illogical and sometimes very harmful mentally and physically. There is very little bliss involved, just anxiety and depression one gets through trying to live something that is against nature.

At this time, I have come to the opinion that ignorance of Mormonism is a conscious choice. When I left, as many others here, there was no Internet. The lying was not as clear as it is now and the obvious absurdities were being affirmed by parents, grandparents, trusted and loved youth leaders. We were definitely being told by our "gods" that our suspicions were from an evil source not an enlightened source.

I don't think TBMs that are stubborn in their demise of a wasted life in following the absurd, that is now on them, their conscious choice, but these TBMs want to indoctrinate children. Are their children their property until 18 or their responsibility. If they are their responsibility then teaching and affirming to them their conviction to a fraud cult is a passive, but consciously irresponsible choice for wrong.

I hope ways to help BIC children, especially n the Morridor can be discovered over the next year. Kids born and raised in Utah are raised in an environment of institutional fraud and manipulation, it's a big cult, it got mainstreamed post WWII and pantsed by the Internet. Time for it to get out of the mainstream.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2013 12:29PM by gentlestrength.

If your siblings are happy, I would let the matter rest.

If they question why you left, start with a simple, generic response: you simply don't believe it anymore, or the church doesn't meet your needs or work for you anymore.

If they ask why not, say that there are many historical issues that caused grave problems for you, and point them to the Mormon Think website if they wish to know more. After that, proceed based on their reaction to MT. Or discuss a few church policies or procedures with which you disagree. I would not proceed further if they want to argue or debate with you. You don't need to justify yourself to them.

If a sibling is unhappy with the church, proceed in a sensitive manner. Try to determine what is making your sibling unhappy. Sometimes people just want someone to listen to them and care without being judgmental. Other times, subtle reminders that there are alternatives might be appropriate. But when in doubt, less is better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2013 12:42PM by summer.

If your siblings are happy and birthing and programming the next generation of cult members.

Leave them be, they are happy.

Personally, I've never found ignorance to be bliss. Generally, it causes me problems and opens me up for abuse. Knowledge ftw.

You're talking about several people. I don't think one blanket answer covers all of them. You know how your parents treated you, gauge what to tell, who to tell and when to tell on how well you think each individual can handle that kind of treatment.

Ignorance isn't bliss, but neither is living with people who are unhappy with you when you are too young and unprepared to leave their home.

Through the systematic use of 'faith'-promoting whitewash since the 19th century, the Mormon Church has systematically misled more than 15 million unsuspecting persons. A year ago, Bloomberg Businessweek did an in-depth report about the Latter-day Saint religious-corporate organization, which said that "the LDS Church officially stopped reporting any finances [to its membership] in the early 1960s. In 1997 an investigation by Time [Magazine] used cross-religious comparisons and internal information to estimate the church’s total value at $30 billion. The magazine also produced an estimate that $5 billion worth of tithing flows into the church annually, and that it owned at least $6 billion in stocks and bonds. The Mormon Church at the time said the estimates were grossly exaggerated, but a recent investigation by Reuters in collaboration with [Univ. of Tampa] sociology professor [Ryan] Cragun estimates that the LDS Church is likely worth $40 billion today and collects up to $8 billion in tithing each year." (Ref. http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-10/how-the-mormons-make-money#p2)

Earlier this month, I posted my analysis about how "the LD$ Church has played a money shell-game with 'tithes and offerings' from duped and sacrificing Cdn. members. No doubt, the same has happened in many other countries. For generations, Latter-day Saints have been kept in the dark by Mormonism's senior priesthood leadership about how their donated funds have been used. Thankfully, regulations in Canada and some other nations (but not the U.S.) have forced the 'true' corporation of Je$u$ Chri$t to partially pull back its financial curtain." (Ref. http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,930138,930138#msg-930138)

Nearly two weeks ago, on this board I published a post, "My formerly TBM niece: 'What a pack of lies the church is based on!'", that provided information about how one young woman (the 23-year-old, raised-in-cultic-Mormonism daughter of my TBM sister) was systematically duped by the Mormon Church, and what learning the full truth about the chronically dishonest religious organization has meant in terms of my niece liberating herself from the LDS cult: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,928072,928072#msg-928072

EVERY Latter-day Saint and potential convert to Mormonism deserves to know the FULL truth about Joseph Smith and his lies-based religious movement. However, they have NEVER received, nor will they get, the truth from the misleading LDS organization. IMO, that reality leaves the responsibility to be a lighthouse of truth shining through the darkness of ignorance to those who know it - us.

You have a choice: say nothing, or do something to help people who have been deceived by the LDS Church learn the 'inconvenient' truth about Mormonism.

In my case, half a decade ago I chose to make my TBM niece aware that the LDS Church and its senior priesthood leadership had not been truthful with her. Initially, she didn't believe me, but several months later she realized that I'd been right.

I encouraged my niece to do her own research about JS, the BoM, early church history, etc., and she's been doing just. The well-researched and -documented truth about Mormonism has not been easy for her to accept, but much to her credit, she has. Since early 2012, she's been free of the LDS Church, and in time she'll help her Mormon-brainwashed brothers get out.

If I'd decided to keep quiet in 2008, today my niece would probably be a duped, temple-married TBM "wife and mother in Zion", trapped in a patriarchal, disempowering religious culture and wasting much of her precious life attending mind-numbing LDS meetings. Instead, she's getting ready to attend university, working, and saving her money. She wants to become a psychologist, an empowering career that will provide her with professional satisfaction and a good salary for as long as she chooses to practice psychotherapy.

Cultic Mormonism deceives, manipulates, and ensnares people - and they often don't even realize that they've been systematically hoodwinked and 'programmed' to obey, pray and pay. They deserve better - much better. Being astute, tactful, bold, and truthful has helped countless individuals liberate themselves from the unethical LDS Church.

Good luck!

The tithing thing really irks me. Park of the reason my sister is so down on herself is because she had to drop out of college. She couldn't afford it, and my parents "couldn't" either.

They left their tax returns on the table this last year and I saw just how much had gone to tithing. Easily enough for my sister's modest tuition.

She started dating some guy - that no one in the family has met - about a month ago. They plan on getting married as soon as September.

My mother is all for it. He's a member, so of course the marriage would work out. My mom then told me that my little sister had "prayed about it." I let slip a hearty "that's bullshit." Didn't go over too well.

Anyway, I'll try and at least talk to my sister in private and let her know how I feel. I'd love for her to be working to get back into school like your niece instead of waiting to be an LDS wife.

And thank you for the advice everyone, I really appreciate the support.

Is Mormon revisionism part of their bliss?

Blacks and priesthood, curse of Cain.
Temple death rituals.
Tithes are voluntary.
We provide charity, most giving organization in history.
Eternal polygamy, temple sealed men can marry in temple, temple sealed, women cannot.

If live and let live is appropriate, is live and let revise and disassemble the truth of their doctrines and history also appropriate. This cult has an agenda, and it's not bring love and peace to all mankind.

Maybe we'd all be happier if we had lobotomies (kolobotomies) too ? but it might not turn out so well after a while.

This story illustrates the wisdom of the Mogul emperor Akbar the Great (1542-1605). Akbar liked to hear philosophers and leaders of different religions, so once held a conference of them...but found they could not agree on principles, and so there was much discord. Finally, Akbar proposed a problem to the assembly: holding out a long stick, he challenged them to make it shorter, but without cutting it. The religious heads racked their brains for three days before declaring that it couldn't be done. Thereupon Akbar brought out an even longer stick and put it next to the first one. "There," he said--"I have made it shorter without taking anything away from it."

Can you see the relation to "destroying ignorance"? It's done by presenting something greater, not by tearing in to another's beliefs. That 'something greater,' however, should probably be your own wiser and shining life, not just hurled information.

I say, "truth shall set your free." By allowing the fraud to continue in our families, we are allowing it to grow into future generations. At some point we need to nip this in the bud; better now than later.

"The church seems to be a positive guiding force in their life."

SEEMS is the key word here. I think the church is like a drug to people. Much of the time they "seem" happy, but I don't know if they truly are. Its a controlling, manipulative, guilt inducing organization that demands more than 10% of people's money and spends it on wasteful things like "great and spacious" guady temples and high-end shopping malls.

It seems people couldn't live without the church but its not any different than someone being addicted to a drug. They CAN quit. And they CAN overcome. It may be difficult for a period, but in the long run they are better without it and they will be happy they are out of it.

"The truth will set you free" has been popularly co-opted to mean any true fact will dispel some dark ignorance. But it is originally from the New Testament, and the "truth" is the truth of who/what we really are--here, stated in terms of our innate identity with 'the Christ' level of awareness, not the body or ego.In fact, that truth is always already true, whether we register it or not.

The bottom line is, if we are not always already completely ecstatic and free of any worry or fear or struggle with the things of this world, we are not living in Truth, we are living in (self-)deception.