Previous thread: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,923688

Delightsome White Boy had a good take on it, that the man approaching children in the park should also be the bishop.


I think another good impact would be people in other accepted positions of authority asking inappropriate questions.

Like a police man pulling a car over for a light out, segueing abruptly to asking about sexual habits.

A judge ruling on a case suddenly asking something inappropriate.

A teacher, a tollbooth operator, maybe someone on the phone, like an information line, 411, etc.

If you can see where I'm going with this, someone in an accepted position of power, much like a bishop to mormons, demonstrating how strikingly inappropriate it is to ask anything like this.

Especially if somehow it is a teen without parental supervision who immediately afterwards goes to a parent and says, "Dad, I can't believe he asked me -----!" Cue dad getting outraged and taking action like reporting this transgression.
The normal reaction of protecting one's child. Which is what doesn't happen in mormonism.

Finishing with one of those "Now you know" moments with someone speaking directly into the camera: "Sexual interrogation should be reserved for a child's parents. Don't let anyone else abuse the privilege, even if you think they should be respected."
Or a better line, definitely. I hope my point is getting through.


I really like this idea, and I hope to see it pursued. I'd love to help, but I don't have any special skills in video. Photoshopping still images though, yes indeed I'd be happy to help! Let me know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2013 03:06PM by WinksWinks.

Such a short, to the point, video could easily go viral. Especially if well-directed and acted.

The video should make clear that this is what actually happens regularly in the Mormon Church. It might include a link to RFM, Mormonthink etc.

Here's proof that leaders want those under them to talk to them
about such things as masturbation.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd1nzk_mormon-mission-pres-allan-pratt-on_news#.UbtnPZxDBoY

The video that was posted about City Creek is very effective because it shows the mall interspersed with black and white images of starving people around the world. All set to "Let's Go to the Mall" music.

Showing pedophiles grooming children in black and white, then the LDS bishop asking the same questions from behind a desk should do it.

Showing a person at work sexually harassing a woman by asking intimate questions in black and white--then being hauled off, and then the LDS bishop doing the same ...

A Boy Scout leader not allowed to be alone with a boy in a tent, but the bishop can take that same boy alone into his office and ask about masturbation?

And my experience of a stake president taking me into his bedroom and having me sit on the edge of his bed while conducting sexually explicit interviews... with his wife sitting outside the closed door staring into space. Yeah, it was weird even to my brainwashed mind.


Ana

Here is another short video idea:


OPEN ON HEAVEN AS A DIGNIFIED MAN APPROACHES A TALL, WHITE CURTAIN.


God's loving voice from the other side:


"What do you want?"

"I want to be with you again, father. And to be with all my loved ones."

"Do you know the passwords and secret handshakes?"

"I don't understand. You know I've always been a decent person. A good husband and father. I earned an honest living. Don't my efforts matter? Don't you love me?"

"I love you deeply. And you HAVE been a VERY good person. I've watched you since your birth. Nevertheless, I can't let you in without the secret words."

"Why?"

"The secret words and handshakes are more importance than everything else. That's all there is to it."

Confused, the man thinks for a second, then speaks softly.


"If I had been a HORRIBLE person, but still knew the words, would you let me in then?"

A pause.

"... Go away until you learn the secret words."


Quietly as the man turns and leaves.

"Something's wrong here"

May I suggest that when the video is in the final stages, prior to release it be run past a few savvy reviewers. These should include BICs, converts, nevermos, to get input from every perspective possible.

It is sometimes difficult for BICs to see how it comes across to nevermos especially and it would be important to ensure that a wide audience would understand the points and grasp the significance. It would be worth getting input from a variety of people prior to full release.

This is also as good a place as any to say that despite having been a member (short term) and having read about this issue before at RfM the proposed dialogue (see potential questions based on IRL experience in the previous thread) is sickening. I've read before that many Mormon parents, and especially convert ones, have no clue that the bishop asks their children such questions.

Related to this issue re bishops/SPs asking children/teens these types of questions could be bishops asking adults the same types of questions in run-of-the-mill TR interviews (i.e., not even "disciplinary" or "confessional" type interviews). As an adult convert I was asked if I knew that oral sex is sex, as part of the topic of the Law of Chastity. As the bishop was also a convert it seemed he realized these types of questions were over the line (not to say wildly inappropriate) as he was very uncomfortable and even apologized, saying he had to ask because "it's in the book" (meaning the CHI). Partly the shock is not expecting such questioning from a lay leader in a church (especially if you have attended non-mo churches where this is not done routinely). A related aspect (as I think may have been suggested on the first thread) is that Mormon adults, especially converts, don't realize that (1) these questions are being asked of their children - although BICs should do so, having been through it themselves (?) and (2) these questions are so inappropriate - and may open their children to the control of abusive/perverted adults in trusted positions.

That is one of the important aspects - that due to prior conditioning through having been brought up in the church and therefore taught to be compliant and to respect the authority of leaders, many Mormon children, adolescents, teens and adults do not realize (at least at first) that such interviews/questions are decidedly inappropriate. Having been compliant oneself and in turn for one's children may be a factor in causing feelings of shame and humiliation that create problems for many, whether they remain in the church or eventually leave it (along the lines of "how could I have been so stupid", not self-affirming thoughts).

I believe it was Carolyn Jessop who remarked that in FLDS mothers of abused kids, "there is no mother bear there", meaning that in the majority of cases a strong natural parental instinct to protect their children is missing, leading to physical and sexual abuse of many children in FLDS communes. Not surprising, although hard to accept, due to the conditioning they receive from birth to be meek and obedient. Just like regular Mormons. Same doctrine. Same interview questions.

Tied to much of this, on the adult side, is the absolute need to be approved by the bishop and the SP for a TR in order to attend the temple for family events such as weddings and sealings. Therefore, one submits to the process. Just like they do as a child and a teen and continuing on into adulthood. The practices of the Mormon church, set in place by Mormon doctrine, demand that each member submit to authority, comply with requirements, and acquiesce to invasive questioning on many occasions.

This doesn't even get to the topic of invasive questioning in the Mormon "court of love", held to decide the fate of a Mormon Church member who has transgressed in the church's eyes. I wasn't that aware before reading comments on the first thread that such invasive questioning is done when members, including teens, confess sexual "sins" to their bishop. I'm shocked and appalled - hard to do to a 10-yr vet of RfM. There is definitely something about seeing the exact words in black and white, even if one knew about it in theory (i.e., not having experienced it oneself, as an adult convert or a nevermo). I found out about it when a convert friend confessed to having an affair (with a missionary - yeah, bad news) and she was commanded to appear at a Church Court, alone, without representation, to be punished by disfellowshipment or excommunication. I went with her for support, although they didn't allow me into the room with her (and the bishop and three other men, two of whom she didn't know). She emerged an hour later, shaken, trembling, pale and crying. When she whispered to me just a few of the questions they asked her (as outlined on thread one for this topic) such as how many times, where, positions, who did what, who said what, and other intrusive personal questions about the physical sexual encounters one by one, we were both sitting in the dark hallway, waiting for the verdict, stunned. She was disfellowshipped, the missionary was sent home in disgrace. (Yes, she acknowledged it was not a good thing that she did). She was compliant. I was creeped out. This was added to the pile of things I didn't like about the Mormon Church, seen only once I'd joined.

I think it is crucial to emphasize this aspect of the questioning. It should be enough for anyone to admit a transgression (as defined by the church). There should be no need to question further. It is an important point to tie this further intrusive questioning to the exact Mormon doctrine/belief/instructions that give rise to it, so church officials can't say it's just rogue leaders who are doing it and that it's not sanctioned officially. It is. We know it is. It should be reported for the abuse that it is.

I look forward to seeing the video, although I know that by it's subject matter it can't help but be creepy.

Good luck with it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2013 04:22PM by Nightingale.

Thanks Nightingale. Good point about a preview showing before nomos etc. targeted groups. Just like the real movies.

Anointedone,

I sent a short script on this to your email. I couldn't get back to work until I gave it a quick shot. It needs some fixes.

It's creepier than I thought it would be.

Thanks William. I'll be in touch by email. Keep the ideas flowing.

I also had leaders tell me to imagine Jesus interviewing me instead of the leader. It made me feel horribly guilty. Not sure if other people have had a similar esperience.

There could be a few different versions of the same theme.

In one version the children in various scenarios tell the parent about inappropriate behavior from various non-mormon authorities. The parents are upset and take action.

In the mormon bishop scenario the child tells the parent and the parent says that the prophet has told us to obey our leaders and do as we're told and disregards the child's concern.

Another mormon child tells their parent of the inappropriate bishop questions and the parent stands up for the child and addresses the issue and makes waves. The 2 mormon responses could contrast the programmed parent response vs the mormon parent who won't tolerate this sort of thing. This also contrasts with parents standing up for children in non-mormon related similar incidents. One version could show vingettes with many, many mormon parents standing up to their leadership after their children have encountered such interviews. A voice or caption might say: Be the one who makes the difference in your child's life.

Possibly the contrast could ignite strength for mormons to grow a back-bone and ethics and object as opposed to those who obey and concede. Problems Standing up against the leadership is the one thing both mormons and ex-mo's have in common. Mormons need to be shown what real ethics (and standing up for those ethical values) looks like, walks like and talks like when it involves their own belief system.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2013 06:19PM by joan.