I did NOT know this..-
No Document of Actual Signatures:
The closest thing we have in existence to an original document of the testimonies of the
witnesses is a printer’s manuscript written by Oliver Cowdery. Every witness name on that
document is not signed; they are written in Oliver’s own handwriting. Further, there is no
testimony from any of the witnesses directly attesting to the direct wording and claims of the
manuscript or statements in the Book of Mormon.

topping

I've been on this cyber bulletin board for over 10 years and I have never seen that. Wow!

If there were signatures, it would just be a bunch of X's. I would be surprised if any of them could write.

TBMs like to rely on the witnesses as back up of Joe SMith's story
(LIES), but digging into that story just exposes more that same old LDS BS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTi8dq4KAeE



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2013 12:11AM by lucky.

Who wrote the "testimony of the witnesses" is open to question.
One thing is clear, however, the three (or the eight) didn't sit
down all with their hand on the pen and write it out in a
demonstration of literary unity.

Someone wrote it and presented it to them to sign. It could
easily have been a more "positive" version of what had happened
than what they had recalled prior to signing it. Signing a
document about what happened will help shape your memory of what
happened.

Furthermore there's some interesting information that was
given by Martin Harris. From "On This Day in Mormon History:"

Apr 15, 1838 - Stephen Burnett writes to former Apostle Lyman
E. Johnson (who had been excommunicated two days earlier), "I
have reflected long and deliberately upon the history of this
church & weighed the evidence for & against it loth to give it
up - but when I came to hear Martin Harris state in public
that he never saw the plates with his natural eyes only in
vision or imagination, neither Oliver [Cowdery] nor David
[Whitmer] & that the eight witnesses never saw them &
hesitated to sign that instrument for that reason, but were
persuaded to do it, the last pedestal gave way, in my view our
foundation was sapped & the entire superstructure fell in heap
of ruins."

So Harris claims that the witnesses hesitated and had to be
persuaded to sign "that instrument."

"TBMs like to rely on the witnesses as back up of Joe SMith's story (LIES), but digging into that story just exposes more that same old LDS BS."

Seems like digging into anything about TSCC exposes more lies.

Founded on LIES, Runs on new LIES to prop up the old LIES,

yah digging into the crap ball known as MORmONISM is probably going to result in running into LIES.

they aren't outright lies, just half truths... ie the book of abraham came from the papyri, only now it was inspired by the papyri

is a PR movement, always has been

Elwood posted this insight a while back as proof of my assertion "You made me look. There is a Pearl of Great Price Institute manual. You can find it here:

http://www.lds.org/manual/the-pearl-of-great-price-student-manual

If you go to the section for the Book of Abraham there, in the introduction, there is this question:

"Why Did the Prophet Joseph Smith Say He Translated the Writings of Abraham When the Manuscripts Do Not Date to Abraham’s Time?"

Part of the answer is:

"Joseph Smith never claimed that the papyri were autographic (written by Abraham himself), nor that they dated from the time of Abraham. It is common to refer to an author’s works as “his” writings, whether he penned them himself, dictated them to others, or others copied his writings later."

Really? The Book of Abraham itself begins with this introduction:

"A Translation of some ancient Records that have fallen into our hands from the catacombs of Egypt. The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus."

That manual seems just a bit dishonest to me."

And Oliver Cowdery, who worked with the papyrus closely with
Joseph Smith commented that Joseph had better handwriting than
Abraham did.

And at least two non-Mormon visitors who were shown the papyri
in Joseph Smith's little museum reported that he pointed out the
AUTOGRAPHS of Joseph and Moses and Abraham etc.

I bet the POGP manual doesn't mention that, does it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2013 08:36PM by baura.

as published in the 1st ed. of the BOM, the 8 said JS was the AUTHOR of the BOM....

I thought Ud like to know, ha ha

(was the document linked legible, can it be sized Larger?)

For an excellent historical perspective I recommend this video:

Dan Vogel's presentation at the Sunstone Theological Symposium in Salt Lake City on 10 August 1995 titled "Book of Mormon Witnesses and the Nature of Religious Testimony." It includes an introduction giving some background information and context to his discussion of the nature of the three and eight Book of Mormon witnesses. 3 parts.

Part 1: http://youtu.be/47-RWVYzmkM
Part 2: http://youtu.be/Vg3Zznp4W1Q
Part 3: http://youtu.be/fE9Oas_zX50