Staying Married --- This is how I make it work with a believing husband.
This is a repeat post -- updated.... people come and go from the board and many are faced with the problem of making a "part-member" marriage work.

This is one of the most difficult situations. There is no manual. No right or wrong way to navigate these waters.

This is how we did it. It's the principle of: love is something you do, that is at the core.

As most of you know, my husband of 50+ years died Jan 12, 2013. This was written several years before his death.

During much of his declining health, religion was never a topic -it was a non issue. I respected and honored his right to his beliefs and he did the same for me. (He was unable to attend on any regular basis because of health issues.)


So here goes!
That has been my situation for several years now. I am often asked about how I do it.

This is an overview and a little background from some prior posts. (updated)

Everyone's situation is different. It requires compromise, negotiation, some things that are not always easy to do. It also requires that the need to be a "right fighter" is dismissed.

I recognized, early on, that I needed to accept that we both have rights.

There is a right that we often forget. :-)
The right to believe in Mormonism.
That comes into play when one partner changes their mind about their beliefs in the LDS Church's claims and the other holds onto them.

I was a convert as a young adult woman---Mormon for over three decades--certainly, if anyone understood that I would! As a young adult convert, it was my "adopted tribe." (Ephram, to be exact, as my Patriarchal Blessing confirmed.)

I adjusted to the culture shock, especially when we landed in Utah in Wymount Terrace Married Student Housing in 1962. It wasn't easy, but I made it work, including trying to find work while competing with graduate students! Besides, I am a bulldog - I have a tenacious personality, I will do the work to find a way for the best outcome! I taught music (accordion), part-time at a guitar studio in Provo for many years.

When I could no longer accept or believe the claims, (another long story for another time), I had a big dilemma: how do we handle that in our marriage? He was a seventh generation Mormon with a solid "spiritual witness."

I was done. Through. Not going to be a Mormon anymore. I needed to tell my husband, and interestingly, he accepted it and asked what I needed from him. I told him I needed him to live the 11th Article of Faith and he said he would, and he has. He had some warning. He knew I was not content with many things in the LDS Church for some time.

(11th Article of Faith: We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. )

Also, it seemed reasonable to "take turns" about a few things. We had done it his way for over 30 years, now he could do it my way, about a few things. And we have! :-) We had some rough spots about that, but we worked them out.

I completely stopped attending the LDS Church in my late 50's, sometime in 1998 after some traumatic events. The last one was The Man in the Restroom story. That was the impetus for figuring out "what is wrong with this picture" and lead to months of research and study, much on line and from books I ordered from the local library, and from a family member doing the same thing. A few years later, my husband retired. I had retired earlier from my last business that I owned. Later,I resigned my membership, officially in 2002.

That incident got my attention enough for me to do some serious investigating (not what the missionaries do!) and determine exactly how I wanted to live my life. That led to me changing my mind completely. I felt confident about that as, I was taught: "It's a woman's prerogative to change her mind." :-)

One Big Lesson I needed to learn,(after making a big mess):
just because I changed my mind, that is no guarantee my spouse will,or anyone else for that matter. We cannot control other people. I needed to accept and respect their decisions just as I wanted in return.

And why would he? Initially, I had the expectation that if I changed my mind, everyone else would. Ahh...not so fast, it does not work that way. Everyone else (LDS folks I knew) wasn't even interested in what I had to say! In fact, they thought I had lost my mind or at a minimum been offended. Well, sure, I would say, if everyone that had ever been offended didn't come to church, there would be no one there! :-)

But that was not the reason I left. It boiled down to the origins-- the metaphysical, supernatural visionary claims, that Joseph Smith Jr. told about golden plates and angels, etc. that created the God Myth that is still working today cemented by it's generational, cultural, traditional religious rituals. It was not my place to launch on some campaign of "opening his eyes."

I am 100% certain that there is no way my believing husband of over seven decades will change his mind about his beliefs in Mormonism. I used to think it was just a matter of some information, or hey, look what I found, did you know this, but I did not take into consideration the immense power of the spiritual witness and the power of the belief by faith. That was a wall I could not surmount. And, believe me, I tried.

The power of the spiritual witness is at the core of a testimony. A good lesson: never discount the level of intensity of that spiritual witness. It is often life-long and never challenged. It is held by faith and to challenge it is to defy their belief in God and their Savior. That's a huge: no-no!

What I initially failed to take into account, was the power of that belief by faith that others have, that is paramount in Christianity in general, as I well know, coming from a long line of Christian ministers. Nothing new there. They didn't change their faith, or change their mind either. Still haven't.

Well. ....What to do?

Hmmm..... I needed to set some priorities and make a decision that would have the best possible outcome and pay attention to some basic facts of life: nobody can change anybody else. I had to sit with that for a long time to finally "get it."

I have a "fix-it" personality. I was sure, initially, that I just needed to change my tactics. Not so. I needed to understand that some things were not within my power and to let it go. Yes, let it go. Just stop.

I had to do the work to let go of the emotional attachment to the expectation (a little Buddhism helped me with this), and that I did not have the power to change another person. That was a biggie! My observation is that few people in this life ever "get" that one!

Did I want to be one of those folks that hang onto the emotional attachment to negativity: anger, hate, bitterness, resentment, disdain, etc? NOPE. Not me. I don't like being treated: less-than, or stupid, dumb, or not OK especially because of my beliefs. Why would I want to do that to someone else?

I have the kind of mind that sees The Big Picture, takes an Objective View as much as possible, and finds the middle road that works most effectively with compromise and negotiation. I know the power of negativity on the whole person: mentally, and physically. I was not going to "go there."

I determined to keep my self respect, and self confidence in top shape and not fall into thinking patterns that would sabotage my process.

Then I needed to ask myself:

Can I make peace with that?

Can I let it go?

Can I leave it alone and not make it an issue? (This was very hard, initially!) Can I just be quiet about it and not harp on it to people who don't give a rats arse?

Then I learned something that took me a some time to finally "get" -- it's only an issue if I make it one! That's true about almost everything in a marriage relationship. Stop picking at the sore spot, it won't heal!

Ahh... I had options -- and lots of them. I didn't have to make my decision into more than it was -- nor make a mountain out of a mole hill. I changed my mind.

Maybe, sometimes, people just give in. They can't out-talk or out-fight their partner, they are worn down, exhausted, can't fight anymore, so they acquiesce and go along to get along! But did I want that? Clearly -- no.

Maybe, just maybe, the marriage and that investment of love, time, family, financial, emotional issues, etc. is much, much, much more important that a difference of opinion about some beliefs !

Could I make peace with that?
You bet I could! Probably helped a lot that I was a convert and had a couple of decades of life prior to Mormonism that was part of who I was also.

I realized early on that I needed to give myself permission to do the work to find my own path to inner happiness and peace. And, that is what happened, little by little.

Making Peace with it all was not a conscious goal, it was the result of the process of rewriting thinking scripts left over from Mormonism, (another post with a long list-getting myself Un-Mormonized!), seeing The Big Picture and creating my new World View, all the while protecting my self respect, self confidence, etc. I was OK all along. Making peace with my life, all of it was the natural result.

That meant I was learning to process the past, let it go and focus on living in the Now. It's not easy; my mind, like most folks, likes to go back and rework things, repeat the past in my head, fix what is long gone. But did I need that? NOPE! Sure didn't. No more exercise in futility.

That included making peace with my life as a Mormon and making peace with my life as a former Mormon. That meant I needed to understand something about the past: there were no: wouldas, shouldas, couldas, what if's. (Another big subject.)

It required that I do the work to change my thinking. Change my thoughts. It's only a thought. I was the one to change my attitude and change my focus. Just thinking about it was overwhelming.

So, I had to practice some skills. They were new ones. I did some study, research, read a bunch of books, took classes and found out what I needed to do for a positive outcome while making major changes in my World View.

I needed to learn the skills of focusing on today, having an attitude of gratitude.

I needed to learn to be more skeptical, use critical thinking skills, less gullible; be more objective, think in terms of the Big Picture, think about what I wanted to accept and believe from any source.

No more: go along to get along, agree just because someone else is doing it, or believes it, or suggested I do it. I took every idea that came into my head apart and analyzed it.

More conclusions:

Some things are just not worth fighting or arguing about for or against.

We can't all be the same.

We can't all believe the same things.

We can't be everything to anyone all the time.

AND:
What did I want for myself and my family?

I wanted everything that was within my power. Next I had to figure out what was within my power and what was not.

I decided: I am not going to give up anything; not one iota of my investment in my family, home, marriage because I changed my mind about my beliefs in Mormonism.

We are people first. Beliefs second. Once I set that priority and kept it firmly planted in my mind, life started to flow peacefully. It was like opening up a damn that I had constructed within myself. When I let go, things began to flow much more smoothly.

The result: we have a peaceful life. Didn't change our personalities - and our list of opposites. He is a believer and I am not. He has his beliefs, and I have mine. Do they agree all the time. Absolutely not. Why would we? Is it OK to argue, and make a fuss? Sure it is. We can do that. We can be passionate about our differences. We have agreed to disagree And, why not? It's OK. We can do that, no matter what the issue is..And if I go off on a tangent, he reminds me of our agreement!:-) This one short statement of: agree to disagree was very powerful in setting the tone for our home.

I hope to get to 50 plus years of marriage in Aug of 2012, (which we did!!) and not let something as insignificant as a difference of opinion about religiously based claims and belief by faith divide us or our family! Do we have to work on it? Of course we do! But it gets easier.

And we did. We had a spectacular, amazing, incredible 50th Wedding Anniversary planned and produced by our "kids" (all talented adults), who outdid themselves!

So.... life goes on and on and on.

We make the best with what we have.

The older we get, the more changes and health issues we face. Some very scary ones! It's a struggle, but it's always worth it.

We play the cards we are dealt. Not everyone gets the same cards!

I chose well. My spouse is a good man. And, I am told, those are hard to find! :-)

It is not always easy, or smooth sailing, but with a little effort and a positive attitude it is so much easier! Resentments and anger melt away in the face of a positive attitude and laughter. Laughter really is the Best Medicine. Resentment is a deal breaker. I avoided that like the plague!

There was no room for negative self talk, or negative energy either. I knew I was OK. I knew I could do anything I set my mind to. I have to slap myself around some times and knock some sense into my head...again, and again....and admit my errors, take responsibility, make amends, and start over, dozens of times, but the more I stay on course, stay focused on what I really wanted for myself and my family, the easier it becomes.

Appreciation is an amazing power supply. It's like magic. Practically nobody can resist it! It's surprising how far a simple compliment will go! A -- thank you!
Just walk down the street or drive your car with a smile on your face !
Say something to get a laugh from someone. They won't forget you. It will break down barriers and open doors.

I have learned that life is best lived with a sense of humor. A lot of laughter every day. I'm so convinced of the health benefits of laughter (well documented) it ought to be prescribed by doctors!

With what years I have left, I have given myself permission to get to the laughter, find the fun and enjoy my life. A smile and laughter is contagious! Practically nobody can resist that either! (We had 50 years and 5 months!)

Difference of opinions, in the long run of a very long life with good people are really not that important!

ahh... What a relief to know it's OK to let go, let it be, don't let the past mess up my present....... and just ....enjoy today!

Side note: And that was exactly what we did when my husband was confined to a hospital bed in Home Hospice. "Where do we go from here" he asked one day when he was a little more lucid. I realized what he meant and told him that we will make the best of each day and enjoy it. And we did.

Love is the greatest power! Life is about loving others unconditionally and As-Is. Love is something you DO! They don't need us to fix them. And, treating others the way we want to be treated. Don't let the past mess up your present.

It's wise not to take things personally.
Don't Take Anything Personally.
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering. ~ Miguel Angel Ruiz

To fully understand how and why this works like this I have explained it this way:

Mormonism, in my long experience and observation is more accurately described as a patriarchal, generational, cultural, religious tribe. In fact the word: tribe is used in their lexicon. As a convert, I was considered an adopted member of the tribe. Considering how tribes manifest, it is, in my view, the best way to understand how Mormonism creates a whole paradigm for the individual in a familial, societal, religious context aka tribe, complete with it's own unique rituals, music, language, dress.


This system, including everything in their teachings/doctrines is not just earthly in their view, it's Eternal.
That is the core for their World View and how they incorporate their extended family.

Everything in the life of a truly believing, testimony bearing, totally immersed, temple attending, generational Mormon is about their goal to live Eternal Life in the Celestial Kingdom together as a family.

This is the context that their view of their Eternal family functions. Therefore, their lives among their family is geared around the rituals/ceremonies-costumes: blessings, baptisms, priesthood advancement for the boys, missions, temple marriages,"Callings" etc, and around and around it goes.

Just like other generational religions (much larger, and much longer established), this is a religious heritage that most often is at the core of the identity of the individual. You are born a Buddhist, Muslim, Christian: Catholic, a Methodist, a Baptist, etc., etc., and you die as such -- which is typical in my experience.

It's important, in my view, to not make it about right or wrong, good or bad. It's about religious rights and people hold those dear. When we refuse to accept our loved one's religious beliefs, (at least on some level) that is nearly always interpreted as rejection. It's the old saying: don't like my dog, don't like me! :-) Don't like my religion, don't like me!Generational, familial rituals/traditions follow a person from birth to death. It's worldwide.

That is why I stress the importance of unconditional love. People will always need to feel they are OK just the way they are, at least in someone's eyes.

It requires discarding the notion that I need to teach my believing spouse .... something... open their eyes... etc. I say: never mind. If and when they see from your example, usually, that there is something they want to know, they will do it on their own.

I know my case is different than many as we are both retired, and have health issues that prevent church attendance. But, that does not change the believer's beliefs. Not one bit.

I didn't come to these conclusions in a day or two. It was trial and error.

We make it work: one day at a time. We have a comfortable life as devoid of conflict -- as much as possible.

We make it work because his beliefs are about him, not me and mine are about me, not him.

Everyone finds their own way -- sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

My best wishes to you.

Thank you so much for writing this. I am in the same situation, and thankfully, my spouse is very understanding. At the same time, he is a very committed Mormon. He has his beliefs and I cannot go along with most of them. He seems to be willing to go this way for the good of both of us.
Much appreciated.....

TBM here... I read this a few months ago and it really helped me understand my wife who is in the process of leaving the church. We have grown closer than ever before because of the things we hid from each other in the process. I feel like we have really tried to work things out.

Unfortunately, I am stuck. I spend most of my time trying to understand how this happens and what to do moving forward. I just can not seem to function. I keep coming back to the same conclusion that my life is never going to be anything close to what I want and I will have to compromise everything I ever wanted to make this work. I have read for hours on this site and others about the process and reasons of leaving the church. I feel like I have developed a better understanding of the reasons and I feel very sorry for the experiences many individuals have had. But I still believe in the Gospel. I don't want my wife to have to have the feelings many people here have expressed about their families and spouses. I am not interested in "making it work". By that I mean she only gets one shot at this and I am not interested in being the mistake she made before she "knew" KWIM. I feel like I deserved to be loved because I was chosen not by default. Everything we did before is tainted now for both of us. She makes that clear. She has said as much ... she would not marry me if she could do it all over.

I am probably going to stick around until the kids are grown at this point but I feel resentment growing for her every day. For the first time in our marriage I don't care if she leaves. I don't know how to fix that. Sorry to be such a downer. I feel like I am really trying to find a solution but I keep running into the same wall. I guess the question I am asking- Is this half life worth not having what you really want?

tjlang:
I'm going to try to give you my suggestions based on your questions.


#1 - Decide if you want to stay married.
If so: change your emotionally bonded expectations, then go to #2 and #3 & #4....

Accept the changes, all marriages have them. More forward.
Your expectations will need to be adjusted.

Start making your wife the love of your life. Make the children much more than a reason to stay married.

#2 - Change your attitude. Adopt an attitude of gratitude. (It's very powerful.) Make a list and voice them.
Give compliments. Say thank you. Those kinds of little things are always appreciated.

Note: Your marriage will not survive with your current attitude of resentment "growing every day." Resentment is a deal breaker.

#3 Let go of what you cannot change. Your spouses beliefs are about her, not you. Accept what is positive and working.

#4 Make some agreements. We "took turns", agreed to disagree, lived the 11th Article of Faith, made religion a non-issue.

You and your wife need to negotiate the way the relationship/marriage/parenting functions. Show you "love the Gospel" by how you love your family unconditionally: as-is. Be willing to do things differently.

As a side note, if you divorce, you are leaving it to a couple of attorneys and a judge to decide how your life is managed from here on out. (I've been a monitor for supervised visitation, you don't want that either!)

Make a list of negotiations. Do it with your wife, or at a minimum, make some internal changes that allow both of you to continue in the marriage if that is what both of you want.

I'm sharing a few things I learned that have productive results.
You will find what works for you.

My best wishes to you.

SusieQ- Thank you for your reply.

I understand that I can make it work. I know that sounds cavalier but I really am the main thing holding us together this long and it has been that way since day one. I am reading books and we are discussing counseling even though we have not started yet. I am having trouble with the whole "making" part. The issue is do I forget about everything I and she wants for ourselves because we are where we are or do we do the hard thing now in hopes of finding something better down the line?

From everything I read from those who have gone through this is that you either settle or go your separate ways. I am an attorney and do not take the realities of life after divorce lightly. I read about those who have moved on and found happiness outside of the church and I spend a lot of time worrying that I am preventing my wife from finding that. I know I will be preventing me from having it (even though things are better, its still not what I hoped it would be). I just don't understand why it has to be this hard if it was right...

tjlang Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SusieQ- Thank you for your reply.

Now onto some ideas...

First of all, I don't consider a negotiation "settling". It's about working out the best way to keep a relationship together.

And YES, it's hard work. It requires some changes in thinking, and attitude and behavior. It requires letting go of negative thinking.

Fortunately, my husband was willing to do things a little differently.

It requires that both parties find out what the other party needs to have a loving relationship.
Can you wake up every morning thinking about what you can do to make her life the best it can be? And visa versa?

Or is the anger and resentment, and disappointment over expectations put a deep hole in all of that?

You too need to find out if you want to go forward or not.
If you are both willing to make some changes in how you think and feel about each other and get onto a more productive, positive footing, maybe you have something worth saving.
For the sake of the kids, I bet they think you do.
(I'm guessing, of course.)
I know you are frustrated and trying to figure this all out.

How about taking a vacation break? Just the two of you. Let the world go by and just enjoy each other....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2013 03:59PM by SusieQ#1.

SusieQ-

no vacations- little kids...

Do you not feel like was any difference in what you had vs what you would have had if you both believed the same things?

I am not attacking you- I don't know you and you are- honestly- my only hope of making this work in any way that does not leave me a bitter shell. I have been very grateful reading your posts. I am just trying to get my head around the struggles ahead.

Tjlang Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SusieQ-
>
> no vacations- little kids...

Are you sure? We got away for a short time with "little kids." A bunch of them!
>
> Do you not feel like was any difference in what
> you had vs what you would have had if you both
> believed the same things?

Our relationship was evolved over the years, changed, and we had...what we had at the time. It was not about a change in religious beliefs. Except maybe we were more respectful and I was less inclined to push him.
>
> I am not attacking you- I don't know you and you
> are- honestly- my only hope of making this work in
> any way that does not leave me a bitter shell. I
> have been very grateful reading your posts. I am
> just trying to get my head around the struggles
> ahead.

You may just have to hit the struggles head on, as there is no crystal ball that can predict them.

In my case, I decided (like I said in the OP) that I was not...NOT going to loose one ounce of my investment in my home, marriage, family, etc. not financially, emotionally, or any other way.Nor would I give up my house! I was a bull dog about all of that.

This is my life! I was going to find what worked to keep it all together.

I married a "good man" - put him through the last part of his engineering education, went through rough times (lay offs, etc.) and moved to get the better jobs. We bought a house that we sold after 36 years and helped to support our retirement years and my years as a widow. I worked PT for years also. All of that had value to me. I was not going to give it up just because I changed my mind about some religious beliefs!! Not for anything!

I guess it depends on what you are willing to do to give those little ones a loving home.

That is awful to hear your wife would not have married you if she had a mulligan. If that doesn't say, "I don't love you," then I don't know what does. Everyone who wants to should be in a loving and caring relationship with their spouses.

As for staying in this kind of relationship until the kids are grown, I'd recommend not doing that if it is loveless. I don't think growing up in a gloomy hateful atmosphere is good for anyone, kids or adults. From my experience, I had a friend who grew up in a home with that type of relationship between her mother and step father. Uncomfortable is putting it mildly, and the younger ones got the brunt of it. Consider instead giving your children the blessing of growing up in a happy, loving home. This is the only life we have as far as we know, it would be such a shame to fritter it away. And what will the children learn about marriage? Will you teach them one thing, while they observe something totally different in their own home?

There is also the chance you two may reconcile and be happy together. That would be a chance worth taking, no matter what religion you belong to.

I understand what many of these posters are going through. I really feel for people on this board whose kids keep them in relationships that are incredibly strained. If you don't have kids, and maybe even if you do, Mormon relationships may not be worth saving.

You see, I did all the typical Utah TBM things. Served a mission, temple married at 21, etc. Fortunately, we decided to wait to have children until after graduate school. During that time I began exploring my doubts about the church. My then-TBM wife was crushed even though I tried to remain the same person. I didn't suddenly start drinking alcohol or coffee or watch adult movies. I just stopped wearing garments and attending church regularly. After three years of trying to make it work we divorced, and I mailed in my resignation letter the day after the judge signed the decree.


Fast forward to today...

I am married to a beautiful never-mo. We live in southeast and love our neighborhood coffee shop, craft beer, folk music, and weekend excursions to the beach or mountains. My in-laws are wonderful people whom I can totally be myself around. All our friends and co-workers are never-mo. Our sex life is robust! We are both very happy.

Life outside of the Mormon corridor is wonderful! At first I thought people would probably have negative views of Mormonism, but I found out that they really just give the Mormons much thought. When people ask where I grew up, I tell them I was raised in Salt Lake City. People often say, "You must be a big skier then." I just say, "Not really." On a very, very rare occasion someone follows up by asking if I'm Mormon. I just say, "Nope!" Then we talk about sports, beer, or what's going on in the world.

It's astonishing to think about the hold Mormonism puts on people's relationships and lives. It doesn't have to be that way. I hope those going through these changes can find a path that suits them.

Change- Did you initiate the Divorce or did she? Do you think you would have done it differently if you had kids?

I just recently found out about a month ago. I am living in North Alabama right now. I love the people here in the southeast. It makes it easier dealing with a faith crisis when you can talk to people openly about religion like you can here. Also when you tell them about the problems with Mormonism nobody blinks an eye, there's no repercussions and no ostracism.

Wow, great advice, but much easier said than done. My story is in this link:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,915555,915654

Basically my wife just recently reverted back to being Mormon. It has been very difficult for me and honestly I know that I can't control what she's done so I'm okay with her decision (though I still do hope she eventually leaves it).

What I struggle with and what is not in your post is how to deal with the kids? We have 4 month old twin daughters and I don't know how parents having different religions will impact them.

Also, I feel similar to the TBM guy above who just can't get past the religious differences. Just feel stuck and angry.

Like most of you, I expected my husband to change.
As a good wife, I was good at doing a little "tweaking" to make sure he was the best he could be... :-)

I had to let go of what I could not change.
You may need to sit with that for awhile. I did!

When I let go of what I could not change, what was not in my power to change, no matter how many different ways I tried, I was no longer stuck,frustrated, upset, nor had any negative feelings.
They were gone.
It worked like magic.

In my case, our "kids" were adults some with kids of their own.
And so I watch all of them make their own choices and be proud of all of them, Mormons included!

I don't know how we would have negotiated the marriage if we still had children in the home.
I suppose we would find a way to allow both parents to voice their beliefs, opinions to the children in age appropriate ways.

Doing that would require that we be respectful of each other, explain that we are different, that there are different beliefs (hundreds of them in the world) and not all parents are the same. It's OK to change our mind.

Both parents need to agree to negotiate some changes with civility, and decency. Be nice! Of course, that means: no yelling, no name calling, no put downs, threats, ultimatums,to or about anyone.

It's about allowing for and respecting and honoring personal rights to their belief systems.

One thing that is guaranteed for failure is to take the position that one person is right and others are wrong.

I don't know if my husband ever totally understand why I needed to change my mind and why I made that choice. But it didn't matter to either of us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2013 03:40PM by SusieQ#1.

marriedtoexmo-

This is probably irrationally focusing on the negative but I need someone to commiserate with if you will indulge...

Did she convert before you married? Is that why you married her?

Frankly, I went to Institute to find a LDS woman to marry. She wasn't the first to come along. I really feel in love and still am. I TOTALLY understand she has the right to change. It doesn't change the fact that this is "settling" for me and always will be. I can accept that and move on for survival purposes but it does not change the facts.

As to kids, this frightens me the most. We have a bunch. I don't know what to do. I am a pretty strong personality and she is not. That just adds more resentment and neither one of us is doing what we want with the kids for fear of offending the other. How do you negotiate away your beliefs and be o.k. with that?

Hello TJlang. I'm sorry for your major issues in your relationship. This topic is one of the most frequent, and most heartbreaking, that I see on this board.

I'm not married and not BIC, so really don't have anything to say about that part of your questions.

It occurs to me, though, that you could start a thread yourself, if you wish, that asks your main questions to get wider input from more readers who have also had these same challenges to face. Some have worked through them, like SQ#1, some are dealing with them currently. There are many good ideas out there. It's good to get input from wives and husbands and those who have stayed together as well as those who have not.

I'm glad you felt like you could dive in and interact here, TJlang, and I hope that some of the comments will help you.

With my suggestion that you start a new thread to ask your questions, it's nothing against SQ#1 (who has written a post that obviously connects with a lot of people). It's just that I thought maybe more people would see it (with your own unique subject line pertaining to your specific questions) and that you'd get as much input as possible, instead of you being less visible on a thread with a sub line not pertaining to you. More people, in other words, would be likely to see your post if you make it a new thread than if you're just replying on somebody else's thread.

I think you're doing the right thing, asking the questions, expressing your frustrations and your needs, as it may help you to see different perspectives and in the end come to the best conclusions possible in your situation. Good luck with it in any case.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2013 04:20PM by Nightingale.

Yes, feel free to start new threads as you have questions and need input. That's what we do here.

Hopefully something someone shares will resonate with you and put you on a path that is productive and relieves your stress.

I'm just one person, others have a very similar situation that they handle differently.

I rely on proven principles of behavior that are productive and work!

Thank you for being welcoming. I can say that I have defiantly expanded my horizons being here. I feel somewhat reluctant to start threads since I am a TBM and I want to be respectful of your "corner of the internet". I am not interested in debating or causing problems. I just need to know how others are handling this. I am grateful for everyone's time.

Tjlang Wrote:


I applaud your efforts to work on your marriage/relationship with "little ones" as a TBM when your spouse is a non believer.
And, for your bravery for coming here.... ! :-)
That attitude is a sign of willingness to work to succeed.

I understand your reticence TJlang. I was an ex-member when I first came here yet still I felt nervous to jump in and start threads. I got over it. :)

Thank you for respecting us enough to give us our little corner. However, just so you know, TBMs are certainly welcome to post. It is preaching that is not welcome here, not TBMs! Eric, Board Founder, has said many times that he started the board for questioning members and members with questions.

The issues that arise in a marriage when one partner starts questioning their beliefs are among the most often covered here. You could do a search to find other threads on it and there may even be quite a few articles in the archives. Check out the buttons at the top of this page to find the archives. There have been some great posts on this topic through the years. It is never easy for anyone. Maybe one of the most important things is for you to figure out first what it is you want and need and where you're at with all this. That alone can help you to broach the subject with your wife, if you know more clearly what you think and need and why.

Again, good luck. Don't be too shy. You are welcome here, despite your (presumed) beliefs. For most of us, our quarrel is with the church, not its members (unless we're married or related to them, that is). {{jk}}



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2013 06:35PM by Nightingale.

marriedtoexmo Wrote:
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I know it was not easy, never said it was... but I did what I talk about. I know the process. I know it succeeded. Get past it and let it go. You'll be amazed at the results.

And no matter how hard it was, I made some changed that ultimately strengthened our relationship.

I relied on solid principles of successful relationships.

I do have one suggestion for you. Just accept that your wife has changed her mind. Women do that probably more than men! It's usually about more minor things, I think, though!

Next, keep your mouth shut about her religious beliefs and choices. She doesn't want or need your input. Why? It's a sore spot. Leave her alone. The more you pick at it, the longer it takes to heal.
If you want to save the relationship, let it be.

Work on the relationship. Make her the greatest person you know!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2013 04:48PM by SusieQ#1.

Thank you so much...really struggling to move on even though I know that the best way to move forward is to just accept her choice and love her as I always have.

Tjlang said: Change- Did you initiate the Divorce or did she? Do you think you would have done it differently if you had kids?


I initiated the divorce. Our relationship had moved beyond the tense stage to where you can tell you are just too worn down to argue about things anymore. She felt it was her fault for not being faithful and devote enough, and she upper commitment to the church. After reading books on both sides, meeting with the bishop and others, and going through the rounds, it was obvious that our relationship was a product of Mormon cultural pressures and that my non-faith was putting us on different paths. But...she probably would have stayed in our non-relationship relationship for a few more years, even saying as much.

The process of divorce, however, was mutual. We did not hire attorneys. Fast tracked the process. She did not contest. I wanted to move on with my life, so the division of what little money and property we had was probably more 60-40 than 50-50. I have no regrets about that. Glad I was able to move on.

I really can't say for sure what we would have done if we had kids as that's just hypothetical. Hmmm. Tough one. My TBM parents actually divorced when I was a teenager. It was sure difficult at the time, but I am glad they didn't stick it out for us. They are both in better relationships now. If my ex-TBM wife and I had kids, based on my experience with own my parents, I think we probably still would have divorced.

But this is just my experience based on my situation. I do not fully know yours. Wishing you the best in whatever you do!