So, I haven't posted here in a long time, but here's a quick and dirty summary of my back story:

- I'm Muslim, my wife converted to Islam (from LDS) when we got married. We had kids about 4 months ago and on Sunday she told me she didn't want to be Muslim anymore and wants to go back to the 'The' church.

I'm here to ask for you advice. How should I handle this? I'm extremely upset and have already started throwing some 'negative, anti' stuff at her about the Mormon church but that is clearly not a viable strategy. I do want to maintain my marriage and I don't want my kids raised as Mormons.

When I asked my wife about that she said we'll teach them both religions and let them pick. I guess that's better than getting a divorce and breaking up the family.

Now I need to know how to get my wife to being open to listening to legitimate, logical criticisms of the church and not plugging her ears and saying 'lalala'. For example, when I told her that JS was arrested for gold digging and lying to people her response was 'he's human.' When I told her the church is a business her response was 'it's a good business.'

Any thoughts, ideas or support would be greatly appreciated as I have been very sick about this since she told me but am at stand still about what I can do.

If you want to share sources from "church approved" materials you could use Mormonthink.org. It does a good job logically showing both sides of the argument. Or just do a google search on Brigham Young quotes on the blacks, apostates or polygamy and he'll give you plenty of material.

So to understand, you want your wife to stay a part of Islam and to avoid returning to the LDS church, and you are looking for help in doing that?

I think Islam is as kooky as, and far more misogynistic than, Mormonism. I'm afraid I can't help.

+1 Islam doesn't exactly have a reputable track record with women's rights.

Fair enough, I get that you all don't like Islam. I won't try to argue that point because it's futile. I think you mis-understand the religion and probably have never talked to an actual Muslim and just base your opinions on what you see on TV.

Honestly, I don't care if she doesn't go back to Islam, just that she's smart enough not to be Mormon. I want help approaching in her a way where she is at least open to listening to so-called 'anti' or 'negative' material about the Mormon religion. What approaches work and which don't work? Is there a way to get her to at least consider the fact that JS was a fraud.

+1 Thanks for this. I have several Muslim friends and relatives, and Islam is a whole lot more liberal about women than people realize.

"Honestly, I don't care if she doesn't go back to Islam, just that she's smart enough not to be Mormon."

Why do you think Islam is true, but Mormonism isn't? I'd start from there.



"Is there a way to get her to at least consider the fact that JS was a fraud."


Those same arguments that show JS a fraud would also apply to Muhhamed.

Are you sure you want to go there?

"...probably have never talked to an actual Muslim and just base your opinions on what you see on TV."

You're talking to people who have RESEARCH their way out of Mormonism. We don't base our opinions on what we see on TV.

Okay, my apologies for that criticism. I know that the people on this board take intellectual debate very seriously and I am open to that. I think the TV comment came about because my in-laws get most of their info about Islam from FoxNews which is very biased.

Wow. I had to re-read this several times. This argument works both ways:

<<Fair enough, I get that you all don't like Mormonism. I won't try to argue that point because it's futile. I think you mis-understand the religion and probably have never talked to an actual Mormon and just base your opinions on what you see on google.

Honestly, I don't care if she doesn't go back to Mormonism, just that she's smart enough not to be Muslim. I want help approaching in her a way where she is at least open to listening to so-called 'anti' or 'negative' material about the Islamic religion. What approaches work and which don't work? Is there a way to get her to at least consider the fact that Muhammad was a fraud.>>

I think you have zero chance of applying logic to mormonism if you're unable to apply the same logic to your fairy tale.

In your particular case, I'm not sure that criticizing the founder of her religion is the best way to go - seeing as how Muhhamed has his own set of issues and all.

MOST of us, upon realizing mormonism is untrue, quickly applied the same rules to other religions. Most of us have moved decidedly left to secular humanism, agnosticism, and atheism.
If your plan is to keep her in islam...frankly she's better off in mormonism.
If you want her to quit her religion, quit yours.

Islam is one of the few religions worse than mormonism.

At least there's a similar moral law, and a few other similar things between the two, for better or for worse.

I'm curious if you're willing to listen to legitimate, logical criticisms of Islam without plugging your ears and saying 'lalala'.

Islam and mormonism are exactly the same in every way that matters.

Copying and pasting my reply from above and adding some to it:

Fair enough, I get that you all don't like Islam. I won't try to argue that point because it's futile. I think you mis-understand the religion and probably have never talked to an actual Muslim and just base your opinions on what you see on TV.

Honestly, I don't care if she doesn't go back to Islam, just that she's smart enough not to be Mormon. I want help approaching in her a way where she is at least open to listening to so-called 'anti' or 'negative' material about the Mormon religion. What approaches work and which don't work? Is there a way to get her to at least consider the fact that JS was a fraud.

I would be willing to listen to criticisms of Islam as long as they are based in source documents of the religion and not just someone's opinion.

Source documents! LOL!!

That's like criticizing spider man using only comic books. Nice try..

Like Kolobian said above, just replace muslim for mormon and JS for Muhamed and you have the typical lds defence of the mormon church. That is exactly the kind of thinking that you will be fighting against.

Really, it seems to me you want your wife to do as you please, however, she should be free to make her own religious choices and staying muslim is not working for her.

Why should your religious views be more important than hers when raising your children? I think she is being reasonable that the kids should be raised in both religions and then decide for themselves.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2013 05:05PM by deconverted2010.

You and your wife should choose some other religion. As you show how bad Joseph Smith was, your wife will find the goods on Mohammed. Tit for tat. Find a religion without polygamy by the founder.

to educate yourself on LDSInc.

http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm

Islam gets a bad rap, it's just as mysogynistic as any other religion. I'm born and raised Jewish and we've got plenty of dirty mysogyny in our religion. The problem I think is too many people here in America equate the religion with the culture of the middle east. As a religion, it's just as kooky as any other, no more or less. Seperate the religion from the regional culture and it's a beautiful faith, just like Judaism. That being said my wife is Mormon and she's slowly coming around to her senses. Mormonism has it's pro's, and sadly to many con's. Once she learned that her tithing was going to support the prop 8 fiasco she seemed to drop off the mormon map... now they're starting to randomly show up at our home... I haven't been to synagogue in years (no jews show up at my door demanding to know where my Tsedaka money is), and as far as I'm aware, no muslims will hunt you down for money if you stop attending your mosque (sp?).

Appreciate the show of support here; I don't mind folks bashing Islam because it's pretty normal now adays, but hearing something positive is always nice...I think it's good to hear from you because you understand the interfaith marriage and complexities and issues inherent in such a marriage.

This is new to me so it's just been a struggle.

Appreciate all of the feedback. It sounds like I really have three options here:

1. Dig in my heels and focus on 'anti' Mormon literature. The upshot of this is that I should be prepared for her to fight back with anti-Islam info.

2. Take a more collaborative approach and say that we should study both religions together including reading the book of Mormon together and attending church with her.

3. Propose raising our kids to be intelligent thinkers.

You all have given me a lot to think about here and I'll keep you posted on how things turn out. I think ultimately whatever we end up doing I also want to engage some professional help from a marriage counselor or something like that to keep things civil between us. Ultimately I don't think this is worth losing our marriage over.

Things to think about for each of your options:

If you go with Option 1: Go ahead and get divorced now. You will be faced with constant arguments about religion, hurling anti-mormon and anti-Islam arguments back and forth. Which, with each of your chosen religions is a fundamental part of how you identify yourself. Feelings will constantly be hurt and eventually you will look at each other resentfully, because neither of you will budge.

If you go with Option 2: You have a chance at saving your marriage, your kids though will be confused, but they will likely survive just fine as most kids in religious homes do. There will be arguments, (should they be baptised? should they get the priesthood? should they pay tithing? etc) Define your boundaries upfront, make sure that each of you are aware of how conflicts like this from both sides will be resolved and do your best to make them equitable.

If you go with option 3: A lot of the same issues with two, except that you are agreeing upfront that there will be baptisms, no temple, no official membership of either religion for your kids until they are old enough to really decide for themselves (I don't mean 8 years old as Mormons suggest, I mean late teenager). Getting all parties to agree, including family members will be difficult, (grandparents have been known to take kids to be baptised without parents knowing about it, for example. I don't know what the Muslim equivalent would be, but I'm sure that family on your side would be happy to convert your kids for you as well.)

You are in for an interesting ride. I'd be interested to hear how things play out.

What prompted this? Do you know why she's decided to go back to being LDS? Do you know if she's returning to mo'ism, or if she is running away from Islam? I think this would be important to how you guys approach this.

If she's wanting to go back to being LDS, and wants to teach your children as well, maybe you should tell her that you want to respect her decisions, but you also want to be a part of it. Show her religion the same respect you would want shown to yours. Tell her you want to embark on a study of the LDS religion together. Maybe you would want to join. Have the missionaries over (do your research first). Make this a journey you are doing together. Respect her enough to take this choice seriously. If this is just a way for you to throw "anti" mormon stuff in her face, she will know.

And after that, I highly suggest doing the same for your own religion. And then have the moral courage to do what you truly feel is right and true. And to respect the choices of your wife and partner.

Great question. This was prompted because we had twin daughters 4 months ago. Her mom (TBM) came and stayed with us for 3 months and then my DW took the kids to Utah for a month to stay with the in-laws to continue to get help from her mom.

My opinion/thought is that the influence of her family eventually won her over and the whole being 'sealed' to her family for all time and eternity convinced her to go back into the fold. I blame her family for this, but ultimately, she says that had nothing to do with it.

That makes sense. In my opinion, the desire to re-join mormonism to have your family together forever is one that is made out of fear. She's got tons of post-partum hormones coursing through her body, your lives have just changed radically, and you are both probably tired enough to make your brains explode! Maybe she just needs some extra love and reassurance that no matter what you will love her forever, and what kind of God would separate families forever? Mormons are a rounding error of the world's population. And they're the only ones who will be with their family? What kind of loving god is that?

Take care of your family - make sure you guys are getting enough sleep, and wait till you guys can deal with this rationally before getting worried about it.

Good luck with your little sweethearts!

Thank you and I really appreciate your feedback. I hadn't even considered really taking a collaborative approach on this but I think that will show my intellectual honesty on this as opposed to just shoving my opinion down her throat.

OK, It sounds like that due to your family make-up religion is going to play a part of your children's lives. We may not like it, but it's your family. (A mormon and a muslim? How'd you too meet?)

It sounds like you're actually fairly lucky in that your wife seems willing to compromise and have equal time for both religions. I'm afraid that's the best you're going to get, and really, if you do a quick search on this site alone on how mormon spouses treat their non-mormon spouses, you'll see just how lucky you are to have a wife that is willing to treat you like an equal partner and not just cut you out of all religious discussions all together.

I would still encourage you towards a third option. Raise your kids to be intelligent thinkers, yes, expose your children to religion, but do not indoctrinate them nor force them to join either until they are full grown adults (no baptisms nor the Islamic equivalent). Let them decide which, if any religion is right for them. Respect and love your children enough to let them decide without having one or the other forced on them.

And not hijack this thread into an anti-muslim debate.

Appreciate all of the feedback. It sounds like I really have three options here:

1. Dig in my heels and focus on 'anti' Mormon literature. The upshot of this is that I should be prepared for her to fight back with anti-Islam info.

2. Take a more collaborative approach and say that we should study both religions together including reading the book of Mormon together and attending church with her.

3. Propose raising our kids to be intelligent thinkers.

You all have given me a lot to think about here and I'll keep you posted on how things turn out. I think ultimately whatever we end up doing I also want to engage some professional help from a marriage counselor or something like that to keep things civil between us. Ultimately I don't think this is worth losing our marriage over.

She gets to decide this and your support in her life is important. I think that if she thinks that your motives are impure than you will have a hard time convincing her to open her mind to the possibility that LDS inc is bad.

If I had to suggest anything it would be to participate in the journey. Instead of trying to convince her be open minded, show her what open minded is.

You will get no argument from me that Mormonism is bad. Part of letting go of my old faith was also letting go of the principal of coercion, a very important principal in Mormonism. I no longer feel that it is my place to "tell" someone they are wrong.

It is not anti-Muslim to point out that the rules by which we proved Mormonism and Christianity and Judaism false also prove the Muslim faith to be false.

What I wanted to say to the OP was that the Muslim faith is not the culture of the Middle East.

I did not abandon the culture of America simply because I abandoned my beliefs in Christianity, Judaism, and Mormonism.

If you have integrity enough to hold your own religion to the same standard you demand of your wife's religion you will definitely be much happier and probably much freer in the ways you live and experience life because you will both probably walk away from your respective faiths.

Choose the integrity of truth rather than the false lure of having it your way. Follow the truth wherever it leads rather than insisting on being right.

Be honest. Be true. Have integrity.

Yup, I agree. Like I said I'm definitely open to intellectual debate. It's hard to hear, but I guess if I'm trying get my wife to the truth then I should be fair enough to have that same goal for myself.