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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
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Posted by: sam seeking wisdom ( )
Date: May 29, 2013 02:54AM

Why does the Mormon church enjoy tax exempt status if it is run by the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saint and has such huge commercial holdings through various corporate entities?
Also, unlike christian churches, I've read that it contributes nothing or very little of its wealth for the running of schools, hospitals, refuges for the homeless and such things.
Can its tax exempt status be challenged, have there been any precedents of that happening and what would it take to do so?
One more question, how can the tithing contributions of its members be voluntary ( with the implicationjs this has on its tax exempt status)if there is clearly an undeniable link between the payment of tithes and the obtaining of benefits and the status of its members?

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Posted by: dogeatdog ( )
Date: May 29, 2013 03:10AM

... is a bunch of crap!

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Posted by: brigantia ( )
Date: May 29, 2013 05:07AM

on the grounds that they are not open to the public for the public good.

There were hearings and appeals but they lost and had to pay up.

http://www.mormonlawyers.com/2008/11/preston-england-temple-loses-tax-exempt.html

Briggy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2013 05:14AM by brigantia.

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: May 29, 2013 09:09AM

Bully for them. The tax exemption was instituted as a way to relieve the government of some of its burden for caring for the poor. It is supposed to promote charitable activities. It has been totally turned on its head to the point where the churches see it as their privelege in exchange for their public "service" of being other-worldly. Maybe someday America will wake up and realize that churches are not so speshul after all.

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Posted by: left4good ( )
Date: May 29, 2013 09:12AM

Wow.

Never heard that before. That is great!

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Posted by: popeyes ( )
Date: May 29, 2013 09:13AM

What about the London Temple?

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Posted by: left4good ( )
Date: May 29, 2013 09:29AM

See link above. In 2008, UK court ruled that as the temple is not a public place of worship, it is not exempt from paying property taxes.

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Posted by: Gelaendewagen ( )
Date: May 29, 2013 11:18AM

left4good Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> See link above. In 2008, UK court ruled that as
> the temple is not a public place of worship, it is
> not exempt from paying property taxes.

I can't see why American courts can't rule the same way here. Can you imagine the sting TSCC would feel if this happened?

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Posted by: koriwhoremonger ( )
Date: May 29, 2013 02:03PM

I don't think I could even list them all. Four in the Salt lake valley alone right? Soon to be two in Utah County. St. George, Monticello, Bountiful, Ogden...that's 10 how many more are there?

Prime real estate that would command a hefty tax. How many temples would the church put up for sale if they all became taxable?

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Posted by: CTRringturnsmyfingergreen ( )
Date: May 29, 2013 02:08PM

That would suck for the church financially, but it also would be another "persecution" arrow to add to their quiver and a "sign" of the end of days!

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Posted by: emanon ( )
Date: July 16, 2013 03:11PM

Soon to be four temples in Utah County. Two in Provo.

ldschurchtemples dot com lists the sites

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Posted by: Twinker ( )
Date: May 29, 2013 02:31PM

I have a question. What is the level of support the LDS church gives to LDS Primary Children's Hospital?

Anyone know?

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Posted by: PtLoma ( )
Date: May 29, 2013 11:56PM

Zero. THe name is kept for historic reasons, but it's no longer church owned or operated.

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Posted by: Cynthia ( )
Date: July 16, 2013 01:39PM

They still collect for Pennies by the Inch Drive every year. That was the only requirement that was kept when they pulled out of their ownership of Primary Children's Hospital.

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Posted by: jiminycricket ( )
Date: May 29, 2013 03:01PM

1. If LDS INC. lost its tax exempt status in the U.S. for its temples, then maybe there would be a new revelation: "The Cesar Tax", render unto Cesar what is Cesar's and unto God what is God's." 10% Tithing mandatory, and another % for entrance to the temple.

2. If LDS INC. was taxed on temple properties just like a residence at the fair market value equation per jurisdiction local, then we'd all get to see the stated value in $$$ of these temples really amounts to from public records.

3. Ever wonder why TSCC loves Mormon elected politicians? I believe there is a symbiotic relationship and the church gives VIP status to them at every occasion, and the politician insures legislation to protect TSCC and kill any law that would inflict harm. "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2013 12:49AM by jiminycricket.

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Posted by: Suckafoo ( )
Date: July 16, 2013 01:00PM


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2013 01:01PM by Suckafoo.

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Posted by: praydude ( )
Date: May 29, 2013 04:35PM

The morg is full of tax lawyers and accountants. There will be loopholes to exploit and court dates to drag out.

I would just love to see some level of transparency. The UK, Canada, Australia, NZ and the like all have this...why can't we? If the rank-and-file members knew where their money was going things would change even more rapidly for the morg.

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Posted by: axeldc ( )
Date: May 29, 2013 06:25PM

Plus whatever other Mormon political leaders, like Harry Reid, are in Congress.

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Posted by: kizdar ( )
Date: May 30, 2013 12:28AM

Okay! Go to
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/revoke-tax-exemption-lds-church-they-require-membership-fees-guise-required-tithing/RWwm3KxY
and sign the petition! :)

sam seeking wisdom I stole your first line though. Thanks. Just need 99,000 more signatures by June 29.

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Posted by: kizdar ( )
Date: May 30, 2013 12:31AM

Oh and if that link doesn't work, use the one below because the email from whitehouse.gov says "Until your petition has 150 signatures, it will only be available from the following URL and will not be publicly viewable on the Open Petitions section of We the People: http://wh.gov/lqNm4 "

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Posted by: Suckafoo ( )
Date: July 16, 2013 01:01PM

If they lost tax exempt status would that mean the 10 percent paid for tithing would no longer be considered charity and therefore could not be put under charitable contributions on individual income tax returns?

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Posted by: sanitationengineer ( )
Date: July 16, 2013 01:25PM

Correct

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Posted by: Suckafoo ( )
Date: July 16, 2013 01:27PM

Oh that would be glorious!

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Posted by: deco ( )
Date: July 16, 2013 01:31PM

There is also the issue of lawsuits against the LDS company for things such as boys being molested during BSA campouts, and people working with children that are not properly vetted.

This may also come to a head from such things as untrained bishops counseling women to return to abusive husbands etc.

LDS Inc usually pays huge money to settle these matters out of court.

However, sooner or later, LDS Inc will be found liable in these situations and the court will request balance sheets to assess punitive damages.

My guess is that the legal team and suits managing LDS inc prolly have 2 sets of books prepared for such occasions.

However, if there are ANY discrepancies it would be huge ammo to join other civilized countries of the world and force organizations claiming tax exemption for religious reason to open their books for public scrutiny.

This was considered unreachable at one point in time in the US, however, political tides are shifting and we may see it at some point in time.

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: July 16, 2013 01:38PM

As said, the church has a Stripling Warrior army of lawyers and eggheads to keep things legal.

However, the common sense part of me says that since you are required to pay tithes (club dues) to get into a temple (the clubhouse), it's not much more than a country club with secret handshakes....

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Posted by: Suckafoo ( )
Date: July 16, 2013 03:13PM

If one had to pay, let's say, to go to a church on Sunday a monthly entrance fee of 10 percent, would that violate rules of a charity under tax laws?

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Posted by: gentlestrength ( )
Date: July 16, 2013 03:19PM

I think what's most important is to ask that question now of our current politicians and tax bureaucrats.

Any answer from four or more years ago is from a different time and environment.

I am sure this is a "it depends" question with an answer that depends on current events. Certainly Mormonism is not a charity, does the IRS know this? Has it received complaints? Is Utah protected by expensive lobbyists and corrupt politicians (look at Hatch). Hatch is old, will die, is in and out of majority power until then.

We express our concerns about Mormonism here. Some want them to change their doctrines, some want them to improve their social role, and some want them to go away. The best way to make them go away will be to make them start paying taxes for the privilege of operating and soliciting for revenues here in the United States.

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Posted by: gentlestrength ( )
Date: July 16, 2013 02:11PM

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf

Here is a Complaint Form for the IRS if you see behavior by the LDS church that needs to be reported as a possible violation of their tax exempt status.

Mitt Romney lost, so he won't be able to protect them well. Good points about the Mormn attorneys,politicians, and accountants. It is a process though. Mormonism is a front for the corporation,it does not deserve charitable status and as those of us ask and provide support for government that does not allow for corruption of public resources in the name of religion our political power will grow.

I think the United States will shift on this issue, Utah is where people should be concerned most. Utah is the source of Mormonism and has a well entrenched infrastructure to prop up Mormonism beyond any major defeats. We shall see, hopefully Utahns will begin to demonstrate control over their state and not Mormons.

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Posted by: elciz ( )
Date: July 16, 2013 02:38PM

I am with you all on this, but it ain't gonna happen. We are so religiously fanatical here in America, not like England. If the feds go after a church you won't be able to sleep at night because of the howls of religious persecution. Dallin Oaks would go apolectic and we'd have to listen to him pontificate on Obama going to hell for going after the Mormon's tax exempt status. Politics will prevent this. Worse than the NRA and reasonable gun control proposals. Shrieks and howls, god it would be ugly.

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Posted by: gentlestrength ( )
Date: July 16, 2013 02:59PM

A few posters say it is politically impossible for the LDS church to lose its' tax exempt status.

I think this is not looking at the current financials of the United States, the growing disfavor of religion in the United States, and the inappropriate behavior of religions in politics while receiving tax exempt status (prop 8)

So if the big picture is not possible to conceive--I'll offer these first steps.

1. Cap on deductions for charitable contributions, religious organizations. This can be done as a percentage of income or to a point. Let's say no contributions above $25,000 are deductible.

2. No organization can receive tax-exempt status without revealing their books, their operations, expenses, and charitable contributions to society. Open books law, you want tax exempt status, open your books. Don't Mormons believe the Church is honest in its' accounting? Wy would they oppose such a law?

The US government is financial sick, among other things. One of the first things that will help ease the sickness is to get rid of the parasites. The government should OT provide for organizations that consume public resources without paying for them. Tax shelters are code that are not a right of religion, they are a lobbied entitlement. If we start reducing or eliminating entitlements, there is no reason for religion, the religious, and their friends to keep them offof the entitlement cut back wagon.

Religions, churches, and cult and fake charities can lose their tax-exempt status over the next 12 years. We need to put it on the table, make sure it gets talked about, and hopefully not be so close minded about the subject as to discourage any possibility of advancing a good cause.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2013 03:01PM by gentlestrength.

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Posted by: deco ( )
Date: July 16, 2013 03:04PM

Here is one that they went after, and they broke them.

http://archive.adl.org/learn/ext_us/aryan_nations.asp


One could make an argument that LDS Inc is a hate organization based on its actions toward homosexual persons. BKP personally made remarks of physical assault on homosexual persons is okay, with the wink and a nod of stating he was not 'condoning' it.

I think the feds raiding LDS Inc is much closer than anyone thinks.

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Posted by: Heresy ( )
Date: July 16, 2013 02:40PM

I think that many churches are set up as corporation sole. Many larger ones have similar for profit sub corps, just hopefully not as disproportionately large.

I can't imagine any politicians taking on religion in the current climate in the US. There just isnt enough understanding or support among voters. There are too many other priorities.

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Posted by: PapaKen ( )
Date: July 16, 2013 05:57PM

All LD$ Inc needs is a modern "revelation" which will open the temples to the public.

Might as well - it's all on the internet already. And then they can keep their exempt status.

Follow the money.

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